Matt Parrott vs. Joachim Hoch: The Morality of Violence

The video has since been removed.

Unfortunately, it is gone now so I can no longer embed the video to illustrate why the 1.0 and 2.0 movements failed. I vowed last night that I was going to respond to it though since the whole debate was sparked by an exchange of words over the morality of violence.

In the aftermath of the Michigan State debacle, I quit the 2.0 movement. At the time, I said that I wanted to take some time off from the internet to clear my head, rethink everything and come back for “whatever the hell comes after this incarnation” of the movement. The Alt-Right had imploded and I was sick and tired of relying on the failed paradigms, discourse and strategies of other people. I spent roughly the next year after I posted that article doing research and working on a book.

In the course of writing the book, it dawned on me that one of the biggest failings of the 1.0 and 2.0 movements was the lack of a solid moral foundation. It occurred to me that White Nationalism 1.0 and the Alt-Right were like lolbertarianism in this respect. Both movements spend virtually 100% of their time talking about three things – the existence of race, the importance of White identity and Jewish power and influence – and almost nothing else. This is the glue that holds them together and this absence simultaneously provides a space for the inclusion of morally broken people.

As someone who was involved in both the 1.0 and 2.0 movements, I began to see how this is highly problematic. Like many people, I have been convinced that racial differences exist, Jewish power and influence is a massive social problem and that White identity is legitimate. I do not, however, share the moral beliefs of people like Joachim Hoch who are involved in those movements and the coalition of people who are united by those three points in the 1.0 and 2.0 movements is repeatedly trashed in public by violent fantasists who go out and murder people in the name of the cause.

From time to time, I have written about these sad people for over a decade now on this website. From James von Brunn to John Earnest, I have watched in horror as they have flamed out over the years and associated the rest of us with their toxic actions. I see the whole phenomena as being one facet of the larger trend of mentally disturbed, attention seeking mass shooters who are drunk on fantasy ideology. Personally, I’m repulsed by both their carnage as well as the carnage of war.

What is a fantasy ideology?

“His answer was that even if it was counterproductive, even if it turned people against war protesters, indeed even if it made them more likely to support the continuation of the war, he would still participate in the demonstration and he would do so for one simple reason – because it was, in his words, “good for his soul.” What I saw as a political act was not, for my friend, any such thing. It was not aimed at altering the minds of other people or persuading them to act differently. Its whole point was what it did for him.”

“And what it did for him was to provide him with a fantasy – a fantasy, namely, of taking part in the revolutionary struggle of the oppressed against their oppressors. By participating in a violent antiwar demonstration he was in no sense aiming at coercing others to conform with his view, for that would have still been a political objective. Instead he took part in order to confirm his ideological fantasy of marching on the right side of history, of being among the elect few who stood with the angels of historical materialism.”

“It is a common human weakness to wish to make more of our contribution to the world than the world is prepared to acknowledge; it is our fantasy world that allows us to fill this gap. Normally, for most of us at least, this fantasy world of our stays relatively hidden, and indeed a common criterion of our mental health is the extent to which we are able to keep our fantasies firmly under our watchful control.

Yet clearly there are individuals for whom this control is, at best, intermittent; its failure results in behavior that ranges from there merely obnoxious to the clinically psychotic. The man who insists on being taken more seriously than his advantages warrant fall into the former category; the maniac who murders an utter stranger because God – or his neighbor’s dog – commanded him to do so belongs to the latter.

“What is common in such interactions is that the fantasist inevitably treats other people merely as props: there is absolutely no interest in, or even awareness of, others as having wills and minds of their own. The man who bores us with stories designed to impress us with his importance or his intellect or his bank account cares nothing for us as individuals, for he has already cast us in the role in which he wishes us to play: we are there to be impressed by him. Indeed, it is an error to suggest that he is even trying to impress us, for this would assume that he is willing to learn enough about us to discover how best we might be impressed. Nothing of the kinds occurs.”

“And why should it? After all, the fantasist has already projected onto us the role we are to play in his fantasy. And no matter what we may be thinking of his recital, it never crosses his mind that we may be utterly failing to play the part expected of us; indeed, it is sometimes astonishing to see how much exertion is required of us to bring our own profound lack of interest to the fantasist’s attention.”

“I have therefore elected to call the phenomenon in question, if only for lack of a better term, fantasy ideology – political and ideological symbols and tropes used not for political purposes but entirely for the benefit of furthering a specific personal fantasy. It is, to be frank, something like Dungeons & Dragons carried out not with the trappings of medieval romance – old castles and maidens in distress – but entirely in terms of ideological symbols and emblems. The only important difference between them is that one is an innocent pasttime while the other has proven to be one of the most terrible scourges to afflict the human race.”

The violent fantasist is a familiar figure in our circles.

When Glenn Miller gunned down a 14-year-old Methodist Eagle Scout and his grandfather at a synagogue in Overland Park, KS, he was acting out a fantasy ideology. Glenn was there stop the genocide of the White race and opened fire and gunned down Reat Griffin Underwood. In his own mind, Glenn Miller was a hero who was nobly sacrificing his own life for the sake of stopping a genocidal monster hellbent on the destruction of the White race … Reat Griffin Underwood.

Reat Griffin Underwood and his grandfather were at that community center so that he could try out for KC SuperStar which was a singing competition for high school students. Glenn Miller had no interest whatsoever though in the lives of his victims because he had already cast them into the role he wanted them to play in a narrative which existed purely in his own mind.

Glenn Miller had run for Congress in Missouri, but that experience convinced him that there was no viable political path forward because the people had not rallied behind his brilliant campaign:

Joachim Hoch’s response to the implosion of the 2.0 movement is one potential path forward. It is a failed strategy from the 1.0 movement – violent accelerationism – which we all know from experience leads straight to federal prison for anyone who is foolish enough to go down that road.

In contrast, the path forward that we are charting here is essentially heading to the locker room, hiring a new coach, learning from past mistakes and innovating a new paradigm, discourse, strategy and tactics. If one of the biggest flaws of the 1.0 and 2.0 movements was the lack of a solid moral foundation, it follows that the 3.0 movement must start with one before proceeding to other topics.

The fact that this whole debate was triggered by a guy in a skull mask on YouTube chortling about Helter Skelter on a livestream reflects the intellectual poverty of the 1.0 and 2.0 movements more than anything else. We’re supposed to be Europeans and many of us boast about our high intelligence, but something as pitiful as that is our best effort? John Earnest was a talented pianist, but a piss poor mass shooter. The kid threw his life away because of his misplaced confidence in the gun that jammed on him.

In his debate with Matt Parrott, Joachim argued that Dylann Roof, Brendon Tarrant and John Earnest had succeeded in “getting their message out,” which was many times more effective than reason and calm persuasion. That’s not what I saw from my perspective. I didn’t bother to read Tarrant’s manifesto because all of these mass shootings just blur together and horrify me. I don’t think most people cared what motivated Stephen Paddock the Las Vegas shooter or Devin Patrick Kelley the Sutherland Springs church shooter. I think most people are just repulsed by it and are left wondering what the hell is wrong with this country that it is producing so many sick and twisted people. I would say whatever message that Paddock or Kelley may have wanted to send was discredited by the messenger.

There is nothing new about mass shooters. It has become so routine that the country is numb to the violence. Even some of the worst mass shootings only last for a few news cycles before they are quickly forgotten or barely remembered. There are so many self detonating nuts these days with so many competing manifestos of their grievances that the novelty of it has long since worn off. Within the next month or two, there will be another mass shooting with another manifesto and it will be shrugged off like clockwork except for the shooter who will either lose his own life or go to prison.

If we are going to turn this team around, we are going to need a new coach who can go out and recruit new talent so that we can start winning again and making progress toward our goals. We’re going to need a new defense and a new offense, not any of this shit which only marginalized us.

About Hunter Wallace 9621 Articles
Founder and Editor-in-Chief of Occidental Dissent

38 Comments

  1. The issue and ONLY is White survival. The violent actions of supposed comrades do not justify White Genocide. Don’t let anti-Whites lead you down the dead end road of apologizes for being pro-White.

    • I’ve always been pro-White.

      I’m still pro-White.

      I’m many other things besides being pro-White though. That’s like only one aspect of my worldview. We simply can’t work with fanatics. It is a non-starter. They are toxic people who will discredit our cause.

      • These are just lazy people who won’t do any work to advance the cause. They won’t even sign a Pro White petiton at the White House. The amount of people doing work in this movement is miniscule. All they do is socialize on Twitter and forums.

        If violence changed anything then 9/11 would have brought about a great awakening, but it did not. 9/11 was a far greater event than anything these people could ever pull off, and it did not change a damn thing. They just want to shoot, because they don’t want to do any real work.

        And don’t assume these people are Pro White. For all you know they could be Feds. Feds are allowed to encourage terrorism as long as they are doing it to entrap people. Why hasn’t this guy been banned from social media if he is inciting terrorism? Think about it.

        • 911 made clear that Islamophobic hate speech has consequences. When was the last time when somebody hit Sharia demanding Muslim with bike lock ?

          In the war, force counts, not optics. And history is written by the winners. I do not promote violence but just inform that after 911 and countless other events being pro Islam is much safer than being pro white.

          Genetic white liberals do not care about optics or arguments. They are perfectly fine when you lose your job or too afraid to say or do something.

  2. Agreed. We need a new way of doing this. To many of the people in the movement, are lonely, unmarried, unconnected and obsessed with just Jews, race, etc. there is so much more to life than that. Many are atheists, or not having much of a real spiritual or religious life. This leaves them unmoored in the culture. Learn to garden, go watch a baseball game, go fishing or hunt. Make something out of wood or metal, etc. just get away from the web, and the computer for a while. Too many guys whole life is tied up in the computer monitor.

    • “digital minimalism” by Georgetown professor Cal Newport should be necessary reading for many in our movement. It gives you the why, the how and benefits of going back to real life and actual reality instead of a simulated one on your phone or PC.

      Most of the edgiest guys (not speaking of the killers that’s a different mindset) tend to be really young. They lack any skin in the game and basically any real skills, A lot of these ppl have never lived a life without a computer or smartphone, they live indoors (which doesn’t apply to just them but to the vast majority of young ppl in America). Gen Z is the loneliest generation according to numerous studies. They never even had a real community, if they lived in urban shitholes they prob haven’t done any outside activity that involves craft, sport or community. They tend to be reactionary (nearly all of them fell for trump as /ourguy/) and see collapse as a messianic prophecy.

      internet and smartphone addiction need to be addressed more in society and also in our movement.

    • How many Antifa members are married, going to church, gardening, wood, metal, baseball ? As much I know, they have only one hobby and this is hunting Western pro white people.

  3. Poor examples. All three shootings were staged. So why are you outraged about fake victims?

    What real violence against our tyrants would influence is still uncharted territory.

  4. The only thing violence does is hurt the White Nationalist Movement. We should paint ourselves as peaceful and that our enemies are destroying the White Race. Stupid isolated acts of violence do nothing but hurt our message. Take business cards and fliers and recruit people….not be Violent. Post online. Network. Do something positive for White People. I agree race is very important. However the White Nationalist community should focus not just on race but other issues. Have a basic political platform that will show how much better off our people would be with White Nationalists running the government. Deo Vindice !

    • Culturally, we are weak, which means we’re politically weak, too. Ethnostates aren’t a real strong possibility when our society is so mixed, anyway. It might be better to figure out ways to draw those of us who are like-minded together as a voting bloc. Identity politics, but without the label of “White” that will draw the corporate press down on us like a plague of PC locusts. We do tend to vote in certain ways and favor certain policies (if we’re not multiculti soyboys). European nationalist parties aren’t all about national identity, but appeal to voters on a range of issues. We need to defeat the New Reconstruction that has been forced down our collective throat, but it will take time and effective strategies to do so.

      • @Rich – exactly. Politics follows culture. We are in the unique and tragic position of attempting to convince the majority of our own people to possess the will to SURVIVE. We are not in control of our own institutions, media, or countries. Our own people have been subjected to an unprecedented psy opps campaign. We have our own innate Tragi Flaw – we possess an empathy for the suffering of others, and a conscience, for bad deeds, that other Race DO NOT POSSESS. These traits are being brutally, remorselessly used against us, and, worst of all, most Whites are seemingly willing to go along with every vicious lie told against us.

        We need to deal with our own innate Natures.

        We need to teach ourselves, and other Whites, that we owe The Other NOTHING. I think the behavior and general malice, against White, by the non-Whites in our midst, is beginning to be too blatant for most remotely healthy people to miss. Whites are getting shoved against the wall. Most people are not doing that well, in “The Best Economy Ev-uh!”. American life is deteriorating in every sphere. But the Anti Jewites like me – the release of the redacted info on the Israeli attack on the WTC on 9/11/01…..well well well….influx of illegal invading Mestizos is showing White Normies that we are NOT all alike underneath. ………..

        We need to work on re-racinating Whites, putting out the Good Word about all the Good Thing WE do, and what we contribute, and offer concrete, IRL ideas to improve White Well Being.

    • You don’t have any power so you don’t have the power to manage who is “associated” with you or not, nor do you have the power to dictate what lone, radical agents may or may not do with your involuntary association. It’s likely not beneficial to simply disavow people who are clearly aligned with your interests in an abstract way but not with your specific tactics so as to paint yourselves as these pure angels cast against all the demons of the world. This is essentially ‘mainstream’ politicking which tries to cast the DemonRats!!!! as Satanic or whatever, which will never actually work. Nor is moral whinging over mass shootings in general going to be effective.

      I personally don’t believe that anyone here or anywhere who wasn’t personally impacted by such an event loses any sleep over the fate of a bunch of strangers whose deaths were as meaningless as their lives. We know the left crying over drowned Turkish babies carefully staged for photographers on the beach is a fake expression. It plays badly outside of their echo chamber. I’m reminded of the Sam Hyde bit where he had to bail out of a Gavin McInnes interview because he couldn’t contain his emotional overreaction to talking about the Holocaust. It highlights exactly the kind of overtly and deliberately ritualized mawkish performance art over tactically opportune atrocities which are reprehensible. Engaging in your own brand of this ritual is the exact opposite of what anyone should be doing.

      People care about these deaths when they are symbolic of some attenuated potential impact on the beholder personally, or their loved ones. So the only people who are genuinely going to care about a Synagogue shooting are Jews because it is actually personal to them and represents real danger. Likewise expecting non-whites to care about the violent death or victimization of white people except in the form of the most basic, involuntary empathic response is a non-starter. A weepy negro on youtube railing against a white toddler thrown over a balcony is obviously performative and fake or mentally ill. Ideologically motivated violent blacks targeting whites aren’t a danger to blacks and hence there is not going to be an authentic emotional or moral response from blacks. Outside of a moments shock, they don’t and can’t actually care because that is a normal and natural response. No one got to where we are today biologically while being prone to being emotionally crippled over hearing about someone you didn’t know, from fare away who wasn’t anyone like you or even remotely aligned with your group being murdered by someone else you also didn’t know. The species would have just gone extinct already.

      The best response is simply the reality. Don’t pretend you care. No one believes you. You don’t actually care. We all already know. You reveal yourself as a liar by pretending. It’s exactly as fake as LARPing as a revolutionary as a mass shooter when you were really doing it for kicks. You aren’t crying over dead strangers for anyone’s benefit but your own. Everyone will see it as exactly as morally repugnant as it actually is. “Society is to blame” is actually the reality. The people actually in power don’t have any solutions without massively altering course. They blame these problems on the masses who refuse to capitulate to their whims, which is plainly megalomaniacally insane; viewing their preferences and whims as existential issues which must be settled with bloodshed. Mass murder isn’t going to stop because the world has been arranged for its’ inhabitants by the actual power structure for exactly this kind of conflict. To make “wars” small. Which also conveniently brings them to your doorstep (or Synagogue as the case may be) because there is no circle of amity from which to exclude enemies. Everyone knows this intuitively and it isn’t hard to articulate to anyone who isn’t a megalomaniac.

      Since you have no power, other than your voice, and what meager reach you can muster all you can do is react to what anyone else decides to unilaterally do. You can only manage the response. Pretending that whatever lone nut decides to pop off next was never in line with any element of your views is going to just hysterically backfire, if it even got any play which it won’t. The aggrieved communities will want to feel safe and this feigned moral outrage over tactics will not make them feel safe. Regardless of whatever you say you are clearly influencing mass shootings by not submitting. The mass shootings are pointless but will continue because there is no reason for the violence to stop, which has nothing to do with the will of a bunch of rednecks with blogs. This whole situation is completely out of our control. You are permitted a single response which will alleviate blowback, which is non-existence. Submission to the orthodoxy. The existence of enemies living in proximity will engender the conflict. That is its’ sole actual cause. Managing any other response is not going to engender anything positive from outside and it certainly won’t engender respect from inside. There won’t actually be a signally echo chamber in the first place.

      The big problem we dopey goyim have isn’t that we can’t manage this thing, it’s that we are simply unwilling to be the living example. I didn’t listen to the stream, but I’m familiar with Joachim’s line of thinking and ultimately I think he’s simply embodying the response to future violence over which he has no real influence or control. I don’t think this is the correct response but the delivery method is on point and even people who disagree with him should take notes. This should be easy since it actually involves not self-monitoring as much and simply being yourselves and not lying about how you wake up at night crying over the six million. No one who kind of agrees with Tarrant’s manifesto actually gives a shit about an entirely predictable one-off event on the other side of the planet, which is exactly the same case for all of the people who are diametrically opposed to his manifesto’s message. All of the shitlibs who pretended to freak out were doing so completely without emotion from behind a keyboard just like every time their slack, deadened faces type out “LOL” on their phones. They watched the shooting video and then flipped over to a porn tab to finish masturbating. They went to a GOT watch party and talked about it for 30 seconds before being hushed and forgot about it for the narratives which are far more important to their lives presented on HBO.

      Just stop being fake people.

      • “People care about these deaths when they are symbolic of some attenuated potential impact on the beholder personally,”

        Speak for yourself. Obviously, most people are more affected by the death of someone close to them – but that does not mean they can’t also be affected (on a lesser level) with the suffering of decent strangers. You emphasize with the South African farmers, do you not? If you don’t, then you’re in the minority here. We humans are naturally emphatic beings.

  5. Joachim is a dangerous idiot.

    His ideas are not pragmatic in the least.

    The moral element of conflict is considered the most important, because it plays a major role in determining what side people are on.

    Morality is fundamentally a pragmatic matter and you are doing it a great injustice by reducing it to preachy church nonsense that everyone is sick of.

    The point of making a moral case is to get Whites to take their own side; to acknowledge the position they’re in and (in time) to envision a different future for themselves. Morality is why we are pro-white to begin with. Eventually we realized that what was happening to Whites is … “wrong”.. morally wrong.

    As Whites start to take their own side they will begin to make political demands. For example demands for sovereignty and self determination. If the response to those demands is not acceptable, unilateral moves will follow. If those unilateral moves are contested, you know what happens. Those efforts will be entirely justified and, in the right context, will be widely supported by the White population. See: successful national liberation movements in history.

    However, you are not blameless. Given the above, trying to add pacifism to 3.0 is ridiculous. And it only empowers the idiots like Joachim, by making them seem relevant and solutions oriented in comparison. (they’re not, at all)

    Frankly, some parts of the 25 points were so bad that they could not help but provoke a stupid response. I have no idea why you’d abandon the League of the South type messaging, when it is more relevant than ever before. Bizarre.

    Instead of pacifism, the emphasis should be on “legality”. Not a legality that treats the system as legitimate, but the legality of people who recognize themselves as living under an occupation but also recognize the need to fully comply with the laws of the occupiers in order to protect themselves and make any kind of political organization possible.

    People who violate the principle of legality must be kept at a distance for our own protection. It’s not a matter of disavowing or accepting the morality of the system, it’s purely pragmatic, like getting fired from a job for unsafe behavior that endangers the company.

    “Sorry, we don’t have anything against you, but we can’t associate with you anymore, for our own safety.”

    That is how you create the necessary distance without acrimony, infighting and constant disavowing.

  6. When people are doxxed and their viewpoints suppressed for wrongthink, some of those people are going to reach for a gun out of extreme frustration. The “evangelical left,” for whom you must march in lockstep with or be punished for being a heretic, and the conservative movement that lets the left set the agenda, have failed everyone not wanting to ignore the tribalism that is man’s default social mode. Not everyone is cosmopolitan in outlook, or wants to be. People resent being forced to go against their wishes and preferences.

    But it’s the nature of regressive “Progressivism” to try to attain total power and control, through any means necessary. As they control the culture and the institutions associated with it (education, entertainment, media), we really only have two options: Fight to somehow gain control of the culture, or pull away from it and build our own alternatives. We can’t even begin to discuss political power until we have cultural influence, after all. Even if that cultural part is strong only amongst ourselves, once we have a more united front we can’t be separated and then easily destroyed. HW’s discussion of history has shown the failure of multiculturalism, and that even after extreme setbacks people of European stock can rebuild an identity and culture. The lessons and examples are there.

  7. Only a fool believes that the current path the US is going down can be changed by peaceful methods – to believe otherwise is a John Lennon-level of pacifist delusion. Trump was an empty vessel that many disillusioned whites poured themselves into only for them to experience deeper disillusionment.

    • otto skorzeny,

      As I explained to a friend today, there aren’t “political solutions” to most problems in life. Most of the time these problems simply run their course. Something else that is unexpected comes along. In our case, I don’t think most people have considered that the reason things seem to be changing all of a sudden with Blompf’s election is due to generational turnover.

      • We need a big “unexpected thing” very soon. And I don’t see things “changing all of a sudden with Blompf’s election”. It happened before that, but I can’t really pinpoint a date. Bad things have snowballing for quite some time now.

  8. What I took away from this “debate” was the absurdity of a real person trying to do good for his fellows in an actual community pleading for restraint from an anonymous and completely irresponsible “e-celeb”.
    This online excuse for a “movement” is toxic. Hopefully it will go nowhere. Unfortunately, in the short term, it may produce more tragedy.

  9. I watched the whole thing last night. Joachim took down the video because of how bad it made him look. He did nothing to alleviate the concerns of him having turned into an agent provocateur during his mysterious 3 month dissapearance. All he did was make those accusations more believable. It’s not just that the points he was making were awful, but his demeaner during the debate, as well as over twitter the past few days, is very concerning. I was a member of the TRS forum during its last days and Joachim reminds me a lot of how Anglin was acting on there when he was desperately trying to shut down TWP and IRL activism. He was very unstable, highly emotional, and in 24/7 meltdown mode. Anglin was under a lot of pressure from his boss (((Weev)), who was himself under a lot of pressure from his wealthy Chabad Lubavitch backers who needed him to steer the movement in the direction they wanted it to go. Which at the time was MAGA, American Nationalism, clown shoes, no community action, no building IRL networks, etc.

    Now Joachim seems to be under a lot of pressure as well but the direction they want to steer the movement has changed. MAGA is out, it’s now time for “Accelerationism”. Weev and the Daily Stormer are calling for accleration and glorying the actions of the alleged New Zealand mosque shooter. Every day on 4chan for the past couple of months you see multiple threads lionizing Brentant Tarrant in hopes of inspiring copy cats. All the threads are created by and repeatedly bumped by Israeli shills. Why do Zionists want Americans to shoot up mosques when Muslims make up 1% of the US population? Boy that’s a hard one to figure out.

    But I suppose it could have something to do with more wars in the Middle East and the future creation of greater Israel. And while ZOG gets approval from enough Americans to enter to an all out military conflict with Iran, Syria,Lebanon, and possibly Russia it will also have enough approval to completely shut down the dissident right. We will both publicly and legally be seen as terrorists. The same draconian post 9/11 laws used against Al-Qaeda will be used against us, and remember that ZOG never saw Al-Qaeda as a real threat but they see us as one. So imagine how much more harshly those laws will be used against us. We also have Red Flag gun laws in an increasing number of states. Accelerationism will spell doom for the dissident right. Joachim is now on team weev.

    I wish honorary agent Joachim had kept the video up a little longer because he made so many stupid points that they were hard to keep track of. His handlers did a pretty bad job prepping him. He kept trying to compare Israeli terrorism in the 1940s to the domestic terrorism he’s trying to incite today. Are you kidding me? First off the Jews had the support of all of their people in Israel and abroad, they controlled the banks, the international press, they had influence and control over many governments, and they had been building up infrastructure and planning this for 50 years. You won’t believe this but then he brought up South African terrorism. Why yes when you have the support of not only all of your people but also every western government and media outlet then I suppose terrorism would work for you. The lesson is that terrorism works when global ZOG is backing you.

    Trying to compare his domestic terrorism to Hezbollah was also a silly example. Hezbollah has their own tv station, they have seats in parliament, they get lots of funding, they’ve established very serious infrastructure, they have the support of their people, they have the obvious moral high ground, and they only attack military targets. There’s no comparison between Joachim’s domestic terrorism and Hezbollah, who very few non Jews or jew lackeys would even consider a terrorist organization in the first place.

    He then had the gaul to equate Cville with mass shootings because they’re both violent. Because TWP brought shields to protect themselves from ANTIFA that’s the same thing as going into a place of worship and opening fire at civilians. He thinks that “asocial violence” ,which is a nice euphisism for terrorism and mass shooting that he was using, is more effective at getting the message out than “social violence” which is what he calls holding public rallies. He has nothing to base that on except for anonymous internet comments. Hey guys you know those worthless MAGAtard boomers we all can’t stand, they all supported shooting muslims so that must mean we’re on the right side of things. For the record I don’t even believe that those comments on breitbart were all coming from genuine American boomers. I wouldn’t put it past Israeli shills to have a bunch of sock accounts to try and sway public opinion in their favor.

    The type of terrorism that Joachim is advocating for isn’t even logical. I have a lot of disagreements with Linder but at least he advocated for going after meaningful ZOG targets. Joachim just wants people to go after civilians who are easily replaceable and meaningless cogs in the ZOG system. Terrorism is supposed to force the hand of the system to give you what you want because they can’t afford to keep paying the price. But why on earth would ZOG care about a few mosques getting shot up? It wouldn’t make any difference to them. They want that to happen and they’ll still use it as an excuse to shut us down. Immigrants and minorities have no agency or control over ZOG policy. I don’t advocate or support it because there are much better options but if you’re determined to act then you know who’s in charge. You’ll still lose but at least you’ll have the support of more people than just sociopaths and Israeli shitposters.

  10. Wow Hunter, are you censoring mildly critical comments which call for “legality” now?

  11. “Weev and the Daily Stormer are calling for accleration and glorying the actions of the alleged New Zealand mosque shooter. ”

    The same people who preach violence are also often the same people who preach looking to find mutually cynical alliances with elements inside of the establishment. They are two sides of the “feeling desperate so we must anything to win” coin.

  12. I guess the situation is going to have to become a lot worse before the mass of cowardly, selfish, indifferent and image-conscious whites decide to do something about it. In the meantime we can all look forward to thousands of more little white children being tossed over the balconies of shopping centers or run over by islamic trucks of peace. I’m starting to wonder if the white race is worth saving at all.

  13. Western civilization has three foundations: Christianity, the European nations (i.e. white people), and the Greco-Roman intellectual heritage. Only talking about race is as stupid as thinking that everything would be ok if only more people read Plato and Cicero.

    You are absolutely right about the lack of a moral foundation – because large segments of the movement are anti-Christian. Some are pagans who are genuinely searching for meaning, but some are just nihilists who poison everything they touch. One of the best ways to tell the difference is whether someone has personally embraced a belief system or faith, or whether they only talk about how “useful” it would be for other people to adopt it, because they regard themselves as being above such things. Such people worship power above truth, and are evil.

  14. First, I want to say I concur with your argument that mindless violence will not profit this nationalist cause an iota. But the fact violent fanatics go out and commit acts of violence against random groups of people in the name of nationalism is less an indictment on them and more an indictment on us. The failure to create a way for people to express their zeal in constructive ways has been to our shame.

    I agree with you that morality must be a bedrock of any future efforts for a host a reasons, however, I do not think morality can, by itself, be a means to attract people to the nationalist cause. While good morals is necessary to recruit the right quality of activists and is necessary to present an alternative future to the current course, the masses rarely support a movement or organization merely because it is moral. Other considerations such as popularity, legality, and support networks. A morally sound organization will get no where in this world unless it can present itself as popular, meaning it has to seem when it goes in public it as as much or even more support than it has opposition. There is nothing worse than 10 nationalists being confronted by 1000 bolshevists. While not as important as popularity, a morally sound organization needs to understand and accept its legal footing if a group becomes a legal pariah, under continuous efforts to find criminality or fabricate criminality, it can lose membership, even if it can project itself as popular. However, some historical nationalist causes conducted themselves in non-lawful ways disregarding prohibitions on speech, public gatherings or certain symbols, and by defying such laws their popularity grew because it showed they were defiant, not submissive, to the anti-nationalist regime. However to be defiant, an organization must be well supported because with defiance comes retribution. An organization that flouts even the most minor of ordinances puts its members at risk of arrest and exposure that, in our contemporary social order, means ostracism from normal society. The only way to counter that is to create a parallel society in which employment, food, shelter and cash is available to provide aid to activists and other members in the event they are ostracized or, ideally, an alternative so large members and other interested persons can leave the current order and pursue a future in the nationalist alternative.

    My last concern is your willingness to hand waive away the issue of White Genocide as a meme to bring attention to a multi caused problem in demographics. Without even addressing the merits of that argument, what does that mean as to how nationalists are to proceed, should they discard ethno-nationalism for something less? Will this new nationalist organization stand for white Americans only, or all heritage Americans, how about all persons who are in the US lawfully and not as the result of an amnesty. Also, how do you square the circle that White Genocide is just a meme, when multiple social, cultural, political and economic figures speak of the decline in white population not merely as a natural phenomena but actually celebrate it. How can you say it is just a meme when the media is now engaged in propaganda to blur the lines between ethnic/indigenous European and the hordes crashing the borders. Trying to side step the reality of White Genocide by calling it a meme de-fangs the nationalist cause and puts it in an awkward situation where it sounds less nationalist and more immigrationist.

  15. I’m not seeing any meaningful revelations here. What is the new strategy? How did the trolling/edge lord obsession play into the recent violence? Why is there no nationalist political party operating in America?

    • I’ve always been consistent on these mass shootings.

      There are post in the archives from 2008 and 2009 about them. My opinion hasn’t changed after a decade of mass shootings. I still think they are 1.) immoral and 2.) unwise and imprudent and 3.) tactically unsound.

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