Review: Vox Day vs. Andrew Anglin

My thoughts:

Andrew Anglin’s Opening Statement

In terms of the substance of Anglin’s definition of Left vs. Right, there is nothing that anyone who is Alt-Right can argue with here. This is a good definition:

“Right wing is the preservation of the natural order, which is generally done through established traditions being carried through generations, and

Left wing is the push for “equality” to override the natural order by dragging all human beings down to the level of the lowest common denominator.”

Anglin expands on the distinction between Left and Right from here:

“Vox has defined “right-wing” as the celebration of the individual, but it is absolutely absurd to assert that the average person who identifies with the right wing genuinely believes in this definition. …”

Rock solid.

There isn’t a word that I disagree with here. Anglin isn’t defining himself as a National Socialist. Instead, he is saying that the economy should serve the nation, not the other way around. The nation isn’t merely an economy whose sole goal is economic efficiency and growth. The Right is defined by the preservation of the natural order, which is to say by our culture, NOT by economics. We’re not merely atomized, rationally calculating “individuals” and “consumers” as libertarians and conservatives believe. We’re an organic community with ties to each other and past and future generations.

Vox Day’s Response

Vox claims that National Socialist Germany’s embrace of equal rights and duties is proof that it is a leftwing movement. By this standard, American conservatism is even more of a leftwing movement because it acknowledges the existence of no duties whatsoever.

He dives into the heart of the disagreement:

“To get to the heart of what we are talking about … Economics is not one little aspect of society. Economics is the study of every single calculation of value by every single member of that society. That is how value is ultimately calculated by the insanely complex combination of all those different decisions taking place at various points in time. And that is why the individual does matter. That is why the individual does factor in. You cannot make those decisions. You can’t simulate those decisions without allowing each of those separate parties to make those decisions …”

From this statement, Vox pivots to Friedrich Hayek and Ludwig von Mises and their economic theory of “the impossibility of socialist calculation.” He glosses over the fact that Hayek and Mises were not rightwing conservatives. Both of them identified as classical liberals. They were men of the Left, not the Right. Their entire worldview was derived from the liberal tradition.

Vox couldn’t be more wrong that every single calculation of value by every single member of society is an economic calculation. In fact, this statement reveals that Vox’s worldview is liberal and modernist like his mentors Mises and Hayek. What about aesthetic value? What about religious value? What about cultural value? What about genetic value? To be perfectly honest, large families are an economic burden in our society. The reason we value our children (who carry more of our genes) is because we are organic beings who have a genetic interest in the next generation like other species.

As Anglin pointed out, the truth is that we live in a cornucopia of abundance in the West. Even the poorest members of our society don’t have much trouble finding sustenance. Economics is of less importance than ever before because our most basic needs are largely satisfied. The real economic challenge we are facing is automation throwing millions of people out of the workforce and adapting to a post-industrial economy in which most of the wealth is concentrated in the hands of a tiny minority.

We are capable of being more than an economy, more than consumers and more than deracinated individuals. The Alt-Right is about identity which is a higher order good. As a Christian, Vox should know we are in a cultural and spiritual crisis, NOT an economic one.

Andrew Anglin’s Response

We care about “fixing the situation as it exists now.” That’s absolutely right. We don’t care about the Third Reich. It is a historical curiosity like the Confederacy. We can glean insights from the past but we are fundamentally focused on the present and future.

Vox’s Response

“The side that we are on is determined by our identity and ideology. … I’m not convinced we are on the same side. I don’t believe you are on the side of the Right in any shape or form.”

Vox is defining the Right as liberal free-market economics. He also draws a bizarre distinction between Plato and Aristotle. Both Plato and Aristotle agreed that man is a social being. The same was true of the Romans and Medieval Christians. Ancient Greece and Rome were slave societies that didn’t have anything resembling universal individual rights or free-market economics. The Roman Republic explicitly rejected equality. Roman society was divided into formal classes which was the total opposite of the French Republic with its liberal modernist ideas of universal natural rights.

The funny thing is that Vox doesn’t seem to realize that his ideological ancestors were the political economists and Enlightenment scribblers were the original Left. Classical liberalism, which inspired Hayek and Mises, is the fountainhead of the Left. It is rooted in Locke and Whiggery. In contrast, the Tories who championed mercantalism were the Right. Locke’s great opponent was Sir Robert Filmer. It was only after the Industrial Revolution devastated the European working class that the 19th century Left began to adopt traditional Tory ideas. Thomas Carlyle ridiculed the political economists whose ideas about the free market, free trade and abolition had devastated the British Caribbean.

Vox goes on to say that everyone is under attack by the “globalists.” He neglects to mention the fact that Adam Smith, Jean-Baptiste Say, David Ricardo, not to mention Friedrich Hayek and Ludwig von Mises, were “globalists” and proud liberals. Liberals have always pushed for a globalized economy based on the notions of free trade, the free market and perpetual peace.

This puts Vox on the Left, not the Right.

Andrew Anglin’s Response

Anglin says he believes in the family, the order of nature, the nation and race and the defense of these institutions which are “the foundations of Western society.” Liberalism, which celebrates the freedom and equality of the individual and the moral relativism of all religions, has systematically undermined and corroded all of these things over the course of the last two centuries.

It started with aristocrats and kings and queens. Then it moved on to abolition. Then it was women’s rights. Then it was civil rights. Then it was feminism and gay rights. Most recently, it was open borders, gay marriage and atheism and now it has moved on from there to gender identity in which the use of gendered pronouns is the new tyranny. The final result is the destruction and leveling of all social hierarchies. In Charlottesville and Berkeley, the thin line of law and order collapsed into anarchy.

In the United States, the Right and Left are two forms of liberalism. As Louis Hartz pointed out, it is a debate that takes place within the same liberal family which shares all the same fundamental assumptions. Libertarianism is an even purer form of liberalism.

Vox Day’s Response

Jews are blamed for everything. This is Vox’s strongest point in the debate. Anglin has the casuality reversed here. It was the triumph of Enlightenment liberalism which destroyed the old order in the 18th and 19th centuries. This is what unleashed all the problems with the Jews in the 20th century who were emancipated and accumulated vast wealth and power.

Are Jews the cause of all our problems? No, that is obviously not the case. At the same time, Jews have made all those problems dramatically worse because the effect of their presence in our society has been to tilt everything far to the Left of where it would otherwise be.

Andrew Anglin’s Response

To paraphrase, “are you actually suing Andrew Torba after calling so many people pedophiles?” Vox Day spent months spreading the Pizzagate conspiracy and refused to disavow MILO.

Andrew Anglin’s Response

“Would you burn down Gab because someone called you a name?” Vox says, yes, he would burn down the world.

In conclusion, Tucklypuff has a better grasp of the origins of the Alt-Right and certainly its differences with the liberal tradition.

Note: You can watch the video on YouTube.

162 Comments

  1. Tox has made himself a laughing stock, particularly with that final remark about burning down the world. It’s amazing if anyone can still take him seriously.

    • I disagree with trashing Vox. I see many good comments by him on his twitter feed.

      He’s a bit older, older people fall for classical liberalism. It’s a generational thing. He’s not a complete classical liberal, I suspect. He’s a product of his time, as is everyone.

        • Vox is a coward? Follow RamzPaul. He wrote: https://twitter.com/ramzpaul/status/906557224247545856

          That’s basically why many are grumpy at the Alt Right. That’s Vox’s motivation, which is understandable. Many good people share this view.

          Also see RamzPaul’s claim here: https://twitter.com/ramzpaul/status/906556142645661696

          https://twitter.com/ramzpaul/status/906554797641355265

          The correct path forward is to have multiple groups pursuing multiple strategies.

          A *major* weakness on the AltRight/DS is to fiercely attack any perceived threat. This can create enemies, and it can damage allies. Nothing is gained from attacking Vox.

          I agree Vox has gotten out of control. But he shouldn’t be torn down entirely for that. There’s too much anger in the movement. Focus on attacking legitimate enemies, is my recommendation.

          • The greatest enemies of the right are not the ones who want nothing to do with us (Antifa, feminists, BLM, ect…) but, rather, the enemies who try to steer the movement and subvert us from within. When you have a bunch of people claiming to be right-wing and then promoting liberal free market capitalism as part of our movement, that is a much more infectious poison than any piss some Antifa punk will throw at us.

          • Joe,

            it is also good to appeal to a variety of target audiences.

            Old people like their freedom. They were raised in the age of propaganda, and they’re too old to learn anything new.

            Hunter is listening to the Vox debate with Greg Johnson now, so he’ll figure what Vox is really about from that. I’m dropping it.

            I liked the positive, friendly pre-Charlottesville spirit that was going. And I understand how some dislike the NS, etc linkage.

          • By “appealing to a variety of target audiences” do you mean telling people what they want to hear rather than speaking the truth? The truth does not change depending on who you are talking to. Either free market economics is right wing or it isn’t. And it most definitely is not!The proponents of free market capitalism are my ideological enemies as much as any feminists or antifa.

            Most people in the alt-right, myself included, are poor working class folk. The ideologies of the corporate class don’t benefit us at all. I live in a crap apartment with a barely usable mattress, I don’t care about free markets and what’s good for the rich CEOs at Google or Facebook. And all these poor republicans and pathetic losers who preach this bull because they stupidly think that one day they can be billionaires like George Soros need to get real and quit trying to be so jewish.

          • Joe,

            Vox, like Paul Craig Roberts (who was mentioned somewhere), does correct the worst abuses of our system today. He rejects bad trade, mass immigration, empire, and (I assume) the federal reserve banking system.

            A great way to fix our economic system is to highlight goals, chip away at clear problem areas, and then to keep chipping away, testing things, until we get a better system going.

            If we did manage to secede, to set up our own polity, we would wish to attack foreign investment capital. And we’d want locals to be encouraged to live below their means, to slowly save up to purchase capital, so that they’re in charge. And we’d also not want wealth and power concentration.

            I consider myself a distributist/third position, but I’m against welfare in the ideal. Decentralisation, limiting wealth concentration, has seemed like a possible way to reduce the wealth gap. Also, usury should be banned.

            Free trade schooling for professions like medicine might be a great way to reduce medical costs (build more medical schools, then you have more doctors). And fixing the courts would reduce medical malpractice insurance, further reducing costs. Drug companies are clearly out of control also.

            So, I think solutions are possible if chipping away like that, aiming to improve society for the citizenry.

            A system ultimately has to work, even if it’s not ideal. We in the South had slavery for many years. People didn’t like it, but it worked. A system has to first work.

      • I doubt that VD could have a much higher opinion of himself. He is amazingly didactic. He is far to interested in preening to be any kind of a leader, except among his small circle of admirers.

        • His admirers are jumping ship. They latch on to him just as he latches on to Milo and Cerovich.

          Orbiters. The Dread Ilk, or whatever, are pathetic. Vox has been fleecing them for years. It is all a marketing strategy for Vox, to sell his poorly written paperbacks to his minions.

          I saw through this guy from day one.

          • LOL – to be honest, I’ve never really paid attention to the Prairie Jew.

            I’ve heard of him, and have read a few things of his over the years, but I figured he was just another online personality that nobody would remember once he was dead.

        • VD is an obvious dope. Anglin has some nasty ideas but he’s very sharp and penetrating. Being uncucked frees him to follow his logic to its conclusion rather than swerving to avoid job-loss. VD wants to have his cuck and beat it too. Non-starter.

  2. I saw the debate live, but Vox seems only partially classically liberal. He seems to have moved towards what Anglin and others say: “An economy should serve society.” I suspect this, bc Vox at one point claimed that Anglin could have gotten much of what he was arguing from Vox’s own work, so I expect there’s considerable overlap. Vox claimed they were both complaining about similar problems but had different solutions.

    Regarding Plato vs. Aristotle: It’s common to say leftists like Plato, rightists like Aristotle. Aristotle was less utopian and dealing with society and the world as they are. Aristotle referred to multiple historical and current examples.

    When Vox said Plato vs. Aristotle, it was a strong argument. But… Vox refused to explain what he meant by that! He wasn’t prepared for the debate.

    • Plato was a utopian. But Plato’s utopia is not only unequal, but there’s no social mobility. So you could see Plato as an authoritarian of the right.

  3. Vox is a fraud. His histrionics were less than impressive. He builds himself as a destroyer. The lawsuit, the threats of shutting down Gab, doxing people, allowing his wife to speak for him online, being a sensitive bitch, hypocrisy, etc. Anglin gave him a needed slap across the mouth. Not with a strong debate performance, but to just mocking him, as was needed.

    This debate essentially removed him from the alt-right. Aside from the points made, which were few, it is clear Vox is a punk. The attack he initiated was confronted, and he walked away humbled and crippled in the eyes of his minions. This debate was supposed to be a slam dunk, according to the Dark Lord. He stumbled and was clearly nervous in the face of Anglin, whom he has called stupid, among other insults.

    Time to leave Vox in the trash can and move forward. Not much more needs to be said. Let Vox try and rebuild his legitimacy with his followers (his source of income). His performance was cringeworthy. Not because of his bumbling, but because he continuously boasted about his super IQ and how he could run circles around Anglin, and failed to do so.

    I’m sure the owner of Gab is pleased with his poor performance.

    • @ Ronnie you sound like a brute with this post.

      This is all unbelievable. Andrew Anglin is some kind of thinker or important pundit.

      OD is capable of engining its own content without featuring Anglin’s creepy albino clown act. I think I hear the jews cackling.

        • No, whites need to jettison Anglin. He is a total embarrassment and PR disaster, by (((design))) in at least some capacity, I suspect. And I have no phobia about anglos, I have no idea what you mean by that comment.

      • It’s not about Anglin. I spotted Vox along time ago, as the regulars can confirm. Anglin has his own style of getting the word out, which is fine with me.

        If it took Anglin to expose Vox, so be it. I’m not a cultist.

        DS had a brutal way of exposing what is going on, I like that.

        As far as me being a Jew, which it looks like you are implying, that is nonsense.

  4. What an insufferable little wanker Vox is proving himself to be. I don’t see that he has much to offer pro-whites at all. He is more of a distraction and a nuisance than an aid. That’s a pity because a pro-white liberalism would be very handy indeed.

    • A while back on Twitter, Nice White Gal confronted VD about his claims to be an American Indian, not white. She said “Leave the white issues to the white folks.”

      His reply: “Sure, just as soon as you stop interfering with our sovereign nations. You made yourselves our business.”

      That’s VD on white people

      • He is an opportunist. He found a market and used it to sell his bizarre paperbacks. In no way is VoxDay interested in the interests of White people.

        “Show me a man’s friends and I will tell you about the man”

        Milo, Cernovich. These are fraudulent people that crave the stage, and a few bucks. Vox is no different. Complete fraud.

        I’m glad this grifter has been exposed, finally.

        I’m about done with this asshole. Let’s get back to real stuff, and not let carpetbaggers like Vox fleece our platforms.

      • She said “Leave the white issues to the white folks.”

        Although his retort leaves a lot to be desired, in this case VD was provoked.

        More to the point, the pro-white cause isn’t helped by restricting discussion of it to whites. The more people talking about it, whether they agree or disagree, whether they are white or non-white, the better served the cause is. The more such discussion takes place, the less likely that politicians will be able to continue to treat the issue as non-existent.

        • I’m open to whom ever wants to further awareness. That is why I’m here. I’m not selling books or attempting to create a following. I’m anonymous.

          In the case of Vox, he used this group of people we have here to do the opposite. I called it along time ago.

          I’m all for moving forward now that this huckster is old news.

  5. It’s not that complicated. National Socialism had its leftists (the Strasser brothers). They were removed during the night of the long knives. Hitler was a non-socialist person who took over a socialist party. Hitler wasn’t a national socialist, he just gained administrative powers over the national socialist party and implemented his own ideas from Mein Kampf.

      • In Orthodoxy, God/Bishops is/are known as (the) Despota- it’s an unavoidable reality. Democracy is a sham, autocratic monarchy is the biblical and created order for a rule for civilized white man.

        You can’t avoid it- labeling Hitler a dictator is a meaningless exercise in futility. The Germans need a dictator, not an elected whore like Merkel.

        Indeed, no Western/Christian nation needs a whore of a woman as it’s leader. Or giving men political advice.

    • Stalin is actually the closest thing to a national socialist, however Stalin’s understanding was that the nation is a social construct. Meaning what separates a German from an Austrian nationally is a social construct. Ethnicity and nationality are not the same thing and Stalin noted this.

  6. I think Vox is into tautology by saying every decision is economic. Deciding to have a family instead of a career is economic, and this creates problems with family formation from women – it isn’t any other form of equality beyond economic that destroys things.

    Vox: identity and ideology. Vox’ idenity is mostly nonwhite, as he often mentions – part Native American, part Mexican, whatever. If so, although he already self-deported/exiled, what can he say about the situation about his ex-country (note he is an ex-patriot – like an ex-spouse) that has authority.

    While Vox defines the right as (classical) liberal free market economics, but he rejects Ricardian free trade, open borders, etc.

    Mises and Hayek are more complex and subtle. I won’t say more than reductions are absurd.

    Anglin’s home run is to point to the family as the basic unit, and it is not a republic or a democracy, nor is a group of economic individuals.

    Jews aren’t blamed for everything, only things we can’t blame climate change for 😉 More seriously, secular Jews that accept if not promote things like Aboriton and Gay Marriage took advantage of our problems like a parasite that can’t infect a strong host will attack a weakened one. 70% in the USA voted for Obama and Hillary.

    The last part – Burn down the world over an insult – seems to stem from his Hispanic/Native American heritage which is aggressive.

    It shows in his businesses – His and Castalia House’s works are often good, but there are serious flaws (there is a reason Harry Potter sells more than Selenoth). But I don’t think there is anyone who can tell him anything. “My book is perfect as is my editing of others”. VFM & Dread Ilk: “Yes supreme dark Lord, it is all perfect”. I doubt he gets more actual feedback than Kim Jong Un.

  7. Big thumbs up Hunter. You’re a shining star of the Alt-Right: smart, articulate, judicious and a solid soldier taking the fight to the street. We need a hundred more just like you

  8. The topic merits scrutiny but Andrew Anglin should be persona non grata in any movement devoted to preserving european culture.

    I think you men have very little sense of how you come across to the majority of white women, especially younger ones who are direly needed.

    I assume most know that Hitler’s party wasn’t formed without broad support among the wives of its male members. Before people claim ‘oh, but we don’t need women’ or ‘women love to be beaten according to jewgle’ – Anglin featured an article claiming this – think about the women in your lives. Your mothers, sisters, daughters.

    Cuz I’m a woman and all I see is narcissism going on here.

    When do men step up? Giving Andrew Anglin a platform even by replaying this debate is just pathetic.

    • The majority of young white women? The ones shrieking and screaming that we all have to import more third world hordes?

      You mean the heart of the Democratic Party and this is who we should be pandering to?

      Vox Day is a joke who revealed his true colors in the last few days.

      Libertarianism isn’t going to suddenly become viable even if it manages to co-opt the Alt-Right name.

      • I’m not talking about Vox Day, I’m pointing out that Andrew Anglin shouldn’t be taken seriously. He’s trying to warp young men into becoming mental cases and bullies. It’s no wonder young women get attitudes.

        The heart of the Republican Party is all for immigration by the hordes.

        I find it hard to fathom how indifferent men on here are to the violence Anglin advocates against women. Do you all want your daughters to grow up in the world he fosters? Do you want them beaten by brutish husbands?

        What happens is that when white men take up this stance young white women turn their hearts to the men portrayed as downtrodden rebels against the system.

        It’s just awe-inspiring to watch white men argue with one another about their kids’ future while defending Anglin. Or even listening to his junk-addicted tripe.

          • Ok, I agree. Right or wrong, w/out white women of mating age coming into our movement, we’re extinct in a single generation; and I live in a city where miscegenation is EVERYWHERE. So how do we attract them? How do we get them to understand that they’re confronted with a binary choice: endogamy or extinction.

          • You got it. Time is that short, I see it all the time too. We have to purge pro-white of misogyny and make it more hospitable to women. Keyboard warriors who claim to not need women to fight should sober up and realize blabbing on the internet really isn’t fighting.

            I recognize, for the most part, it’s men’s job to fight physically but those who claim public debate and lobbying is for men are nuts and saboteurs. They should be purged and blackballed.

    • Give it up, Onceler! You need tosubmit to your father or your husband, or stop pretending to be our equals!

      Patriarchy is the biblical norm.

      The era of women thinking themselves the equal of Men, is over. It began the day Donald Trump bitch slapped Hillary Clinton in the electoral battle.

      You haven’t gotten the memo yet, have you?

      • Shut up, FR J, you horse’s ASS. You are a total retard. ANY male who writes the crap you write online is the total BITCH of any woman who allows you anywhere near her .I’ll bet your “wife” dresses you up in tutus, for her amusement.

        FYI – White men have been doing nothing but losing to the Jew for several hundred years. No one’s going to “submit” to LOSERS. Successful White men don’t need to issue “commands” to females on the Internet. All you are doing is showing what a weak, ineffectual loser you ARE.

        Have ever shown up to ANY event? Clean up your own SHIT before you let it dribble out of your mouth. Now SHUT IT.

    • I’m anti-beating women 🙂

      Female suffrage seems like a bad idea though. And coed schools seem like a bad idea. Weekend mixers should be the norm at such schools though, to keep kids straight.

      • Female suffrage takes the rap white men deserve for letting the jews in en masse during the decades prior.

        I get that men need their own space sometimes, as do women. But blaming women for allowing the jews to flood our country and turn everything to shit is just passing the buck.

        • Women aren’t to blame for that. Jews entered Britain before the US, and the US came from Britain. I mean the 13 colonies slowly grew in tolerance of Jews, and then the early states did the same.

          And, though I don’t know the history, at some point Brits and Americans started worshiping Jews…

          The dates we all condemn are annoyingly dates Jews cherish. 1066, 1649 (King Charles), 1792 (French Revolution), etc. Women weren’t a part of this. And the stupid, stupid English still don’t get the history yet. We’re enslaved to the Jews, because the Englishman is temporarily retarded – and even worse, vain.

        • An argument Dr. Fleming once made is that universal suffrage divides households. It would be better to have only the man vote, for the household 🙂

          And I’m not terribly fond of democracy myself, but at the least the vote should be restricted a bit, to make the system work as well as it can.

        • I disagree. You are historically illiterate.

          When the Czar was overthrown the immediate cover for the Jews was something called “International Women’s Day” sponsored and devised by (((suffragettes))). They marched in St Petersburg and the event turned into the revolution. Trotsky even remarked on the clever gas of hiding the revolution behind the skirts of the radical wimmin. The Jews always use a slutty Rahab figure to undermine the men in a target community.

    • Onceler – indeed. Hitler has tons of adoring women, and NEVER EVER spoke of women in the manner in which the Anglin Fanboi Faggot club does. These eunuch Aholes are always always ALWAYS whining about how mean and bad and terrible women are. They mewl about how White men must be great leaders – but, with rare exceptions – they never fucking lead ANYTHING.

      Most of the fellows commenting and writing on this site are wonderful. Intelligent men of honor. Many are husbands and fathers, including are brilliant young host. But too many LARPing retards poison the White Nationalist Well ,and have been doing do for decades, and it’s bloody tedious.

      • We’re running out of time, methinks. If we don’t manage to get this train back on the rails I’d say game over in like 2 years max. We need our young women and can’t afford to allow men like Anglin to turn them against their own people. It’s as if the men here don’t grasp how repulsive DS is to young women and how disastrous it is to have these disaffected white girls fall prey to the jew-set trap of loving diversity. Think about all those half breeds.

        Threads like this make me think that the men you seem to invest so much faith in either don’t get or don’t care about how destructive Anglin is. His whole act is radioactive.

        I sorely miss a few friends I’ve lost to death, and overseas duties in the last couple years. Both are or were flawed but fundamentally upstanding men. They honored women and hated the jews. One doesn’t like to talk overseas since he feels we can’t discuss candidly (he’s fearful of spying) so what’s the point?

        My point is, we need more women. We need to make pro-white more hospitable to women of all ages, especially the young.

        If something major doesn’t change in how pro-white men choose to deal with the insane misogyny, it’s game over.

        • The situation with women is hopeless. They are now married to the state; they are given all the benefits by it and will continue to vote power for it for as long as that continues.

          The whole “feminist” movement is a giant cry for help from women, in a way. They are designed by nature to desire dominant men and to participate in a family structure in which ultimate decision-making lies in the male’s hands. In effect, feminist is a colossal “shit-test” to prompt men to show their dominance again and take control of the situation.

          The problem is that the State, with all its coercive power, is now women’s artificial “husband.” It prevents the re-establishment of the patriarchy through universal vigilance and force, as well as enforcing a situation wherein women are supported by men while owing them nothing in return. The social contract between the sexes is utterly shattered; men are without social rights, women are in command, neither wants it to be this way (underneath, anyway), but it’s too late; Leviathan is enforcing the arrangement.

          The biological programming of humans is actually quite elegant.

          Women will submit to and reproduce with men who are strong enough to dominate them (doesn’t need to be physically, simply being take-charge and projecting masculinity and confident authority will do it). This ensures that the men who sire their offspring are strong enough to defend those offspring, and will create offspring dominant enough to survive in a dangerous, hostile world. It’s actually an excellent solution when it’s allowed to play out; women yield to, and reproduce with, those men who are tough enough to make the tribe survive.

          The problem is that this has been short-circuited. Now men are not allowed to exert dominance, and their own women view them as weak. They support the importation of sexually violent third worlders whom they view (emotionally and instinctively) as stronger and therefore more worthy of reproducing with. The actual fact is that their men are still viable, but are being suppressed by the seamless straitjacket of today’s surveillance and welfare state. But their instincts can’t perceive that; the instinctive programming naturally can’t parse beyond “white men are no longer dominant, therefore they are unfit, brown men show dominance, therefore they are fit and we need more of them.”

          I don’t see any way out of the trap. Women will NEVER voluntarily give up the current situation, which basically gives them unlimited state assistance and social power, near-worship, while demanding absolutely zero responsibility or accountability in return. It’s extremely corrupting, and they’re corrupted. Many have also had their ability to pair-bond permanently destroyed by their innumerable sexual liaisons.

          This is my ultimate black-pill. I can’t see any way to restart the natural exchange of responsibilities and benefits of a working relationship between the sexes. Women now have pure benefits without responsibilities; a few rare ones would be perceptive and noble enough to give it up for the greater good, but most will not. We’re in an airtight trap that I can’t see any way out of except for total collapse, which may very well not happen.

          • Working class white women installed Trump. Whole sectors of white men didn’t vote for him (either went for Hillary or abstained).

            Since your beginning premise is bunk I won’t bother reading the rest.

          • You should check out who’s ruining Europe, you smug, self-satisfied feminist troll. Not to mention the million pussy hat march, I’m with Her(pes), and all the other feminist destruction of the West going on all around us.

            Why the hell are you here? Why aren’t you off scissoring Lena Dunham instead of clogging up decent forums with the stink of your leftist babble?

            The feminist trolls on this site REALLY need to be banned. They’re just a pointless annoyance.

            You’re a typical modern feminist clown-woman. Stupid, entitled, obnoxious, and convinced that WIMMINZ LEADING is the solution to everything, instead of re-establishing the patriarchy which will give you a family and a stable nation, where you will be happy, instead of ripping off your shirt and painting your body with “ABORT THE POPE.”

            GTFO.

          • And your username is stupid, also. Something from that viper Dr. Seuss’ books.

            Get back in the kitchen, pop out some white kids, and shut up if you actually want to help.

            Instead of “MUH WIMMINZ, MUH LIBERATED WIMMINZ WILL SAVE DA DAY FROM YOU EBIL MENZZZ!!! WAAAAAH WAAAAAAAAAH!!!”

    • You speak for no one but yourself and your cats. The young men reading this blog should take their counsel from older men and from their peers, not from some feminist harpy like you.

      • Andrew Anglin isn’t white. He’s not a peer or elder of white men. I absolutely speak for many women. Cats I don’t know about.

        • Onceler, I just realized FanBoiFags like Maple Disease Retardation use Mongrel Anglin as “cover” for their own ineptitude, inadequacy, and charmlessness. They definitely need to go their own way. They are an absolute liability.

        • Quite a few feminist trolls on this site. Listen up ladies: When the lights go out you WILL be taking some necessary lumps (but they hurt me more than they hurt you). You’ll live though, and you will have a new outlook on natural heirarchies.

      • Shut it, Maple disease moron. You are a CHILD, and a faggot. So something REALand productive, and some-one just some-one may take you seriously. No go clean up your room and take aBATH, or you can’t use the computer.

        • My dear madam , you don’t seem to understand something very basic . Women fundamentally to the core of their being , are apolitical and amoral . They are ruled by biological urges and the desire for biochemical excitement. They are non racial . Look at Sweden . Look at what the young white women did to the country . In b4 but daaaz Joooz , well I don’t see many Swedish men in the pictures holding placards welcoming niggers and brown filth . It’s always the Aryan princesses.

          • 1) I certainly understand women, and their “basic biological urges”. I am one, and I’ve bene around women my entire life.

            2) Men have even more basic biological urges.

            3) Women may or may not be “racial”. all the women I know are UBER RACIAL.

            4) Men are far less racial than women are. Men miscegenate a lot more than women do.

            5) Sweden – the women didn’t do anything. Women reacted to the social conditioning of the JEW, to accept invaders. Jews have been studying us for centuries. They’ve successfully subverted and diverted the innate maternal instinct of women, by substituting the poor innocent jihadi feral vermin, for babies.

            6) The ROLE of men is PROTECTOR. Where are the Swedish MEN, repelling the invaders?

            7) It’s not only Swedish non-existent males – it’s White males everywhere? Women did not have the legal or social authority to make anything happen, until VERY recently. Where did the White Men GO? WHY did White Men ALLOW JEWS TO TAKE OVER, and ruin everything, including White Women? WHER ARE THE MEN?

          • I second EVERYTHING Denise says. White men, WAKE UP. I’m the child of a white WASP psychoanalyst. My father’s Jewish (((colleagues))) literally spend every minute of their ENTIRE LIVES looking for new ways to subvert White morality and brainwash the unknowing goyim cattle, and they have UNLIMITED FUNDS in which to do so, because white men allowed a sociopathic tribe of anti-White (((financiers))) way back in to print and totally control our worthless money suppy. I am extremely disheartened, to say the least, to read so many moronic responses here by supposed ‘men’ who thoughtlessly proclaim their intellectual and moral superiority over the scheming Evil White Whores. Stop watching JewTV, Jewtube and other evil brainwashing trash meant to zombify, pacify distract and do nothing but read books. Older ones are best. I would suggest archive.org, to start.

          • I thirdly support everything Denise said.

            White men sat around while all their laws were usurped by those who didn’t create them, all their countries invaded by non-whites whose main objectives were always to replace them, their (((arch enemies))) gained control of the minds of their women and children, and all of this while simultaneously believing the biggest bullsh*t stories ever told.

        • You understand what you did right now ? The moment you at
          attacked Anglin ad hominem by mocking his masculinity you employed the Jewish Alinsky tactic of underhanded personal ridicule to attack and debase a person.

          • IC – Angln certainly has NO problem with attacking everything there is to attack regarding women, so he “put it on the table”. Don’t dish it out if you can’t take it. You do realize you aren’t exactly refuting my assertions, don’t you? You are simply “bovvered” by the fact that I am criticizing him. Why do you think he’s White?

          • Anglin does not attack women . He points out their sickening behavior. And asks them to face consequences for their actions . I have rarely seen him use ad hominem baseless insults against white women . And why do you think he isn’t white ? Have you built a successful shock and awe pol humor website attracting several thousand page views per month ?Have you contributed 0.0000000000000001 % of what he did for the alt right instead of commenting on pro white forums ? Have you organized powerful trollstorms to attack and scare kike journalists and media personalities ? Do you understand the importance of being a cyber political guerilla force ? Do you understand he makes the red pill far more accessible for the white masses to swallow ? Do you have any idea on how to create a far more effective pro white agitprop website than Andrew ? I think not . ??

        • ” Why do you think he’s white ? ” ” oh he’s a half nigger cuz he got a funny face and he causes hurtfeels ” seriously, you are just typing ad hominem. He altered his DNA results? Wow that’s an extreme claim lol . evidence please . I’m not ‘mad’ you’re criticizing him . I am interested to see that all the while he’s been right albeit in a rather slapstick and crude fashion. Women and Jews do hate him because he speaks the truth about them and sheds light on their true nature . Ok now coming to your ”assertions ”
          1. Women are Uber racial .
          Are you NUTS ? They may not breed with niggers , but they sure as hell sleep with them . On an industrial scale . Are you living under a rock ?
          2. Men have much more basic urges .
          Well .. ok I admit I should’ve been more scientifically nuanced . What I wanted to say is women are more focused on bodily pleasure . The fact is men are far less innately hedonistic than women . In fact women are biologically hardwired for more pleasure and lethargy . They have a huge production of oxytocin, and have far longer orgasms . Moreover weak joints , very low upper body strength, softer bones and higher overall fat percentage contribute for a body anatomy geared for less work and far more play . ?
          3. The Jew is to blame for the behavior of women .
          * Facepalm * I . Can’t . Even . So i can say if white men start practicing abuse and torture sex aka extreme Bdsm on their white ladies the Jew and the white girl is to blame for that because they started and promoted the porn industry?
          4. Swedish men and other white gentlemen have always been protecting their women lol . Who the f*ck pays the major part of the taxes in Europe and North America eh ? Who creates the corporations and businesses to employ women ? Who pays the money for the social safety net ? Who makes up the police force ? Who makes up the military ? Who enforces the laws regarding female suffrage? The fact that you as a woman can yell out your political opinion in America without being shut down by your father or husband is a testimony to the fact that white men are protecting your rights . ?
          5. White men allowed Jews to take over .
          Wrong again . White men warned you about Jews again and again . You listened to the kike feminists and jumped on the baby murdering bandwagon for the glory of mass industrial scale fornication . Remember the pill in 60s ? White men actually tried to stop you from taking it. But you voted down the abortion laws . Burnt bras etc . Did nothing about porn industry. In fact the women kickstarted the sexual revolution in USA in the first place . It was the women who reinforced free love in the colleges . And then you voted for the abortion rights . White men opposed it again and again but women simply couldn’t care less . Lol . Oh and remember who’s the biggest beneficiary of the American divorce industry? ????

          • IC – I’m sorry I hurt your feew-wings on your hero Anglin. Your mindset is so…..fanboi….it’s harldy even worth discussing.

            Where is he, anyways? Boinking 12 year old negresses in Nigeria, or whatever?

            Anglin had a terrific run with DS, for a few years, and then he could not transcend his pathological hatred and fear of women. It’s genuinely tragic. He DOES trash women all the time. He and weev fantasize about physical violence against women on a regular basis. You are incapable of admitting, or even seeing this. This is blatantly obvious from your reply.

            Re: Sweden and other previously White Nations – sorry, pal. Your bitterness is blinding you. White men have NOT protected White Civilization and White women at all, and haven’t for approx. 200 years. White men buggered off eons ago. White men held all the legal and social power, and threw everything away with both hands. Had White men done their duty AS White men – we wouldn’t even be having this exchange. Our civilization would be intact.

  9. The “right wing conservatives” who spew the nonsensical virtues of liberal free-market economics are the biggest cancer to the right in my opinion. They claim the most mind-numbing idiotic things like “Hitler was a socialist, therefore leftist.” Meanwhile it’s the corporate capitalist class who our greatest enemy and biggest promoter of liberal anti-white values.

    Even as an atheist, I would rather follow the Christian zealots who want a theocracy over these people. At least there is some truth to what they say about Christianity promoting traditional right wing values. But free market capitalists? What has that ever done for us but give us pornography, international corporations who rule the world, and George Soros?

  10. My main objection to Vox is that he tries to say the Right is classical liberalism or free market economics when in fact that was the original Left and the people who the political economists were arguing against were the Right.

    • My main objection to Vox is he is a fraud.

      1)He doesn’t even live in the United States.

      2)He raises his kids abroad.

      3)He has no stake in what happens here

      4)He has furiously fought for censorship

      No thanks. And that’s not even mentioning that he is an opportunist fleecing gullible Americans that buy his bullshit to buy his books.

      • Hunter – worthless Talmudic hair-splitting about total non-issues, such as the one you’ve just described, is the reason why the organized Jewish genocide of White Americans – now openly, widely bragged about and discussed DAILY in all medical/scientific/legal journals – continues unabated. It is totally shocking and saddening how easily distracted and pacified men like you (who I admire) are, these days, by totally stupid, unimportant bullshit like ACTUALLY CARING ABOUT WHAT ‘VOX DAY’ SAYS ABOUT ‘ECONOMICS’ (and I say this as someone who absolutely loves both you and this blog). I sadly believe the dumbing down of education and literacy have created a zombie world of YouTube-watching morons – a world where Jews will easily be able to fully genocide and miscegenate White Americans, so long as ‘white advocates’ are able to (1) satisfy the rubes with their controlled opposition and (2) thus engage the dumb cattle in worthless, meaningless Talmudic debates over esoteric economic viewpoints held by minor, worthless non-Whites like ‘Vox Day’.

    • I agree entirely with you here. He just posted (on twitter) a new video in which he condemns Spencer (obviously I’m going to defend Spencer), but he also credits Anglin for accurate criticism of the “neo-liberal order”.

      Most significantly, Vox states how the 16 points of Alt Right are ideas that can appeal all over the world, for a global movement, not only to whites. We need a global revolution.

      • The 16 points are overly long and would not necessarily appeal to the whole world. Would the Chinese like to hear that they can’t interfere with Tibet? Would starving illiterate Africans care at all about scientism vs. scientody? Would the disenfranchised and unfulfilled care that this movement is specifically not for this economic model or the other?

        Trying to stretch our appeal to everyone would make us fail. Nothing appeals to everyone. Instead we need to pick a demographic and mold our message and aesthetic for them, which is young white males.

        • It’s good to have allies. The idea is that currently the situation is: world vs. whites. We want to turn that into globalism vs. anti-globalism.

          What Vox said exactly is that “many of the points” would appeal to others. He gave Myanmar as an example. I’m pretty sure it was Myanmar…

          I thought the 16 pts were what Richard Spencer had written up. If they’re by Vox, then nvm. (I haven’t read Vox’s.) What Spencer wrote was very good. I don’t believe Spencer mentioned economic models.

          Others have highlighted how whites will not be won over by NS. As Vox said: It’s the ideas that matter.

          • The narrative that Alt-Right holds to is alien subversives and invaders are screwing up the world. I don’t think we have much of an opinion on Bhutan.

            Appealling to other groups is alright if it is just a consequence of our work to appeal to our main demographic.

            The 16 points are Vox’s, and he considers them to be the guiding light of the movement, which is ridiculous.

            NS works not so much as a appealing force in and of itself but as a rebellious and humorous means to ridicule. It is about destroying the bludgeon the Left uses on the Right (Nazi/Racist/etc = bad).

            Ideas don’t matter at all. You could have the best idea on the world but if you sell it badly, no one will buy.

          • Georgie,

            most people in the world dislike US meddling in their affairs.

            If we all oppose this, then we have common cause.

            Also, large numbers throughout the world oppose mass immigration and abuse by big businesses.

    • I *do not* recommend you watch the twitter video. Too much “alpha” ego. I hate the ego from all sides, not just from him. The lame “alpha” stuff in the Alt right annoys the heck out of me.

      He does finally say interesting things near the middle or so of the video.

      I pray I don’t sound like that if I start making videos…

        • Vox is definitely an Alpha…wife, kids, outstanding athlete, solid on most issues re White Western Civilization. Anglin is a weird little freaklet….

          but I like his Jew-baiting memes. And, in the long run, memes defeat rational argumentation every time.

        • Not sure if you saw my reply above:

          Georgie,

          most people in the world dislike US meddling in their affairs.

          If we all oppose this, then we have common cause.

          Also, large numbers throughout the world oppose mass immigration and abuse by big businesses.

          Addendum: A major divide in the world is between cosmopolitans and the rooted/traditionalists/nationalists. Also, traditional empires like Russia are multi-ethnic yet resist globalism. Russia/China/etc want a “multipolar” world. We do also.

          I don’t believe in “tailoring” significantly.

          =

          My ideas for white advocacy / ethnostate might be a bit different than some here. Folks here might not realise that carving out an ethnostate would net require ethnic cleansing or anything like that. Nationalists have a supreme advantage over other polities: We actually care for the future of our people, don’t simply desire personal enrichment. So many foreign polities are corrupt. A polity has but to attract foreign investment capital, build itself up, filter immigrants and encourage births. A well run polity naturally attracts both immigrants and capital.

          Socialism requires global domination, because if nationalism is allowed of the sort we’d wield, it would suck in all of the world’s investment capital like a black hole. Globalists can’t resist a fat, low-risk return on investment.

          So, I think some here are misunderstanding things. We need but a polity, and we’d thrive.

          I only read people’s tweets. These videos are stupid. But Vox did tweet how it’s a bad idea to make enemies of the world. Jews seem to have angered large numbers of people. We, however, should wish for health and happiness for all.

          The weird trashing of nonwhites here: I don’t really get. It’s not constructive. I guess I’m a rather boring person though.

    • Hunter, you Southerners are great people. But it is obvious Vox was corralling a group to buy his cheap paperback books.

      The Dread Ilk and Dark whatever. LOL

      The guy is a con man.

    • Liberalism, Leftism, Socialism and Marxism are four different terms and you can’t mix and match them.

      Liberalism is tied to free markets. Leftism, Socialism and Marxism are not tied to free markets. Liberalism and Conservatism overlap on free markets.

          • They weren’t libertarian, no. They weren’t socialist either.

            My point is, conservatives should not want what Daryl Basarab means here: “Liberalism and Conservatism overlap on free markets.”

            You can define the term any way you like, but I’m tired of the implication that one must choose one suicidal ideology or another. As Angler, as Spencer, as Wallace, as many others have said: The economy should serve the nation/state/society, not the other way around.

            The cult worship of freedom needs to end, as do the other simplistic ideologies of mass man. Mass ideologies are for cattle.

            Note: I’m wanting to make a point, not insulting you personally. I’m disagreeing over ideas.

          • There are better ways to make that point than to claim that mercantilists (!) supported free markets.

            Obviously markets existed in all those societies, but those markets cannot fairly be described as “free,” at not least not in the sense that the term “free market” has been passed down to us.

          • I’m pretty sure GK Chesterton used “free market” in that sense, but I’m not sure where to check my citation. Anyway, I was really thinking of him. He said something along the lines that we had free markets before capitalism. It’s probably from one of his major distributist works if I’m remembering correctly (not some random comment of his).

    • Hunter,

      The Orc Prairie Nigger Vox is using words the way Jews do – words mean whatever the Vox/Jew/Lefty Grifter say words mean at the moment. There’s a lot of this going on right now. The Kikes and their Golem are spewing arguments, i.e – the whole Confederate statue un-personing “Conferderates were traitors to America, and must be crushed”. In fact – the Confederate secession attempt was 100% TRUE to the Constitution. Lincoln the Tyrant shredded the Constitution, and the ideals and platforms of the Founders.I know you know all about this, but I’m citing this particular issue as an example of the way language is used and abused. Vox the Orc proves itself a Leftist enemy of Whites, by his Jew-like behavior.

      It’s exposed itself. It needs to go.

  11. I agree.

    I’m not saying liberalism, anarchism, socialism and communism are the same thing. They are all leftwing ideologies. Marxism, however, is an illiberal leftwing philosophy.

    In the USA, conservatism and libertarianism are associated with the “Right.” In reality, they are older strands of leftwing thought. The “mainstream” in the USA is entirely within the boundaries of liberalism.

    There is no “Right” in the United States in the original sense. The closest thing we have had to it would be the Federalists, Southern reactionaries and now the Alt-Right.

      • It’s helpful to have a language, words to represent concepts. Such makes thinking and communicating easier.

        Language can also hinder such things: “Pick any ideology, but they’re all anti-white. No pro-white concepts allowed.”

    • Basically conservatism and liberalism are two different ideologies that please the corporate class. The difference is that one may look positively on pornography while the other condemns it, but otherwise they’re basically both free market ideologies. Conservatism wraps it in a national anthem, liberalism wraps it in talk about the rights of the individual and then ups the taxes a bit but it’s still free market.

      There are market socialist ideologies, but the key is that the government owns the market. Meaning you don’t really own the mcdonalds, the government does. That is I think a realistic model for socialism, not the command economy.

      Alt right people pose a threat to various ideologies (liberalism and conservatism) that the corporate class supports. Supporting racial segregation would not be good for corporations. That’s why they’re hated. I place myself on the left because I consider capitalism the main problem. In my opinion racial problems would be easy to handle without capitalism. If a society has full employment, it doesn’t really matter if you’re called white trash or the n word.

  12. Cox Gay made a fool out of himself towards the end of the debate, especially with that “prairie jew” comment. If he’s not a homo he sure puts on a convincing act. Not that I’m a big fan of Anglin. He’s what could best be described as a ..um….a dick-head. Yes, that’s it.

  13. Tucklypuff has a better grasp of this than Vox Day. Ludwig von Mises, Hayek, Jean-Baptiste Say, Adam Smith, Ricardo, Richard Cobden and the rest of their ilk were liberals. They are all rooted in Locke and Whiggery.

    The people who they argued against were the Right who defended the old order: Filmer, Carlyle, Donoso Cortes, Joseph de Maistre to name a few. The Tories opposed the Whigs and defended mercantilism. The free market economy and abolition were leftwing ideas that traveled the globe together.

    Free market capitalism isn’t a conservative force. It’s the exact opposite. It chews through and destroys traditional cultures and subjects everything to the logic of economic efficiency and globalism. This is why Marx thought capitalism was a progressive force.

  14. You’re a smart guy Hunter. This is a good review.

    Hunter,”…By this standard, American conservatism is even more of a leftwing movement because it acknowledges the existence of no duties whatsoever…”

    This is extremely perceptive and very illuminating.

    Hunters highlighting of what Anglin says the Right and Left are is very on target and correct. It’s a GREAT argument.

    I believe Anglin’s attack on VD’s suite against GAB is wrong. People should be able to get the address of others who call you a pedophile. It’s a serious charge and if the Right sued these people more it would constrain the Lefts defaming actions. VD doesn’t want to sue GAB he wants to sue the anonymous people attacking him.

    I expected VD to destroy Anglin but this didn’t happen at all. Anglin did great. I see VD as a very smart guy but he doesn’t necessarily, like a lot of smart guys, have as much common sense as Anglin.

    VD’s talk about debt doesn’t take into account to “who” the debt is owned to. The Chinese and Japanese have lots of debt but it isn’t owed to the Jews or the NWO it’s owned by the companies and banks of Japan and China.

    VD goes on about the Chinese and Hitlers wars against other Whites but that has nothing to do with us now. That we can take some cues from Hitler doesn’t mean we want or in any have any fantasies of invading Poland. It’s irrelevant to Rightest thinking”today”.

    VD’s saying that Hitler and the NS have nothing to do with the Right is disingenuous. How long have we heard the Right tied to Hitler because they’re “the Right”? His technical definitions are useless compared to decades of tying Hitler to the Right by the Left.

    I wonder. Many people say Anglin is in with the Jews in one way or another. Jews working with him and what I perceive as the most damning thing that he believes the gov. line on 9-11. Could he have been fooled into working with these people. Could their financial help have tempted him to work with them with his reasoning that the “good enough beats perfect”?

    I commented on this as I was listening to the debate. Anglin wiped the floor with him. My respect for Anglin went WAY up. VD’s “I’m so smart and you don’t understand” was nothing but total bullshit. He said…nothing. Some airy nonsense with no specifics.

    I strongly recommend for a totally different take on economics very much like Anglin talks about see this page.

    Japan, Refutation of Neoliberalism by Robert Locke

    http://www.paecon.net/PAEReview/issue23/Locke23.htm

    It’s really good and it shows exactly how the Japanese made such astounding progress. The Chinese are also copying this same method somewhat. If we don’t find some way to work with their economic systems we will be ruined. Americans will do nothing but deal in scrap metal and raw materials.
    Here’s some good economic books

    New Paradigm in Macroeconomics_ Solving the Riddle of Japanese Macroeconomic Performance-Richard A. Werner (2005)

    Confessions of an Economic Hitman, John Perkins

    Economics, The User’s Guide-Ha-Joon Chang All his books are relevant

    • I haven’t read those books, but you are absolutely correct that we should be learning from the successful Asians!

      Bad Samaritans by Ha-Joon Chang is surprisingly good, though the author portrays himself as left-wing, globalist.

      And the Lee Kuan Yew (Singapore) book everyone cites is interesting.

      Ah, let’s skip Abenomics though 😉

    • “I believe Anglin’s attack on VD’s suite against GAB is wrong. People should be able to get the address of others who call you a pedophile. It’s a serious charge and if the Right sued these people more it would constrain the Lefts defaming actions. VD doesn’t want to sue GAB he wants to sue the anonymous people attacking him.”

      I don’t think I can articulate words strong enough to disagree here. IF, and this is an if that doesn’t exist, this was just about being called a pedo that would be a point, and not a very defensible one at that. But this is not about that. This is about a guy with a fragile ego and a myopic worldview that he uses the phrase “Supreme Dark Lord” completely unironically while bitching about LARPers. Umm? Dafuq?

      The guy is a lunatic and has gone full retard. Totally unhinged and its unfortunate because it hasn’t always been the case. Gab takes major heat and has gone to bat for us in a way nobody else has. It is a really good milestone for an “alt-tech” revolution. That this snarky cunt would burn that down for his own personal ego massage due to insecurity is an unforgivable crime IMHO.

      And it should be treated as such across the alt-right at large. Pariah would be the word that comes to mind… Anything he has or hasn’t done in the past should be invalidated by such a hostile stance against the only nascent platform we have right now.

      • I don’t think you people get this. Gab will not be sued “for money”. They will only get a court injunction (letter) telling them to delete or give up the people who made the charges that VD was a pedophile. I think this is perfectly reasonable. VD admitted that his advice about calling people pedophiles was wrong. Being called pedophile can have serious legal ramifications of you have kids. People who libel you should be punished. I keep hoping Trump will sue the media for every time they said he was controlled by Russia. It’s libel. The press has skirted the issue many times but if I’m not mistaken they’ve said many times that he was directly controlled by Russia. Trump should sue the hell out of them for billions of dollars. With the hidden video that was released I would think he would have a good case. We should sue the shit ought of the Left if they call people Nazi or KKK who are not.

        I’m all for a free NON LYING press. If they lie they should be sued.

    • Sam J.

      I agree with you in normal circumstances people shouldn’t be calling others pedophiles. I do not think that Vox Day should receive that protection because he calls other people pedophiles and furthermore advises people to call detractors pedophiles. He is just getting a taste of his own medicine.

      As for the economic books, I am reading one of Ha-Joon Chang’s books now.

      • Yes, it’s rather rich that Vox specifically instructed people to call their enemies pedophiles “even when you know they aren’t” TWICE — once in writing and once in a podcast. Then he flies off the handle and tries to destroy Gab and half the Alt-Right when some anonymous trolls take his advice and call HIM a pedophile. Talk about karma.

        He was hoist by his own petard and instead of just shutting up about it, he went full “Streisand Effect” and blew a thunderous trumpet so that not only does everyone know he was called a pedophile, but made a complete ass of himself in the most public manner possible. Talk about “gamma” by his classification.

  15. I’m not saying we should attack Vox but I don’t think we can do without the more radical crowd. I’m for anyone, Fags, 1488, Nazi’s, whatever as long as they’re against the Jews. Why the hell should we worry about the Nazi’s. I’m not a Nazi but they aren’t mad at me anyways I’m a pro-White guy. The people on the right who are asked about Nazi’s, the KKK and otherwise should tell everyone that the Left is their problem not the Nazis.

  16. TBH that so-called debate was kind of gay. Anglin’s forte is the written, not the spoken word. And neither he nor the other mystery meat is someone I would consider White.

    That storm in Florida is the perfect opportunity to permanently remove all their jews, niggers and spics. I certainly hope that White Floridians will avail themselves of that opportunity!

  17. Israel would have been Palestine.Who was the chief architect of 1960s third world immigration act and the subsequent middle easterners of 9/11.

  18. “Just as surely as a worker sins against the spirit of a real Folk community when, without regard to the common welfare and the survival of a Folk’s economy, he uses his power to raise extortionate demands, an employer breaks this community to the same extent when he conducts his business in an inhuman, exploiting way, misses the Folk’s labor force and makes millions out of its sweat. He then has no right to designate himself as national, no right to speak of a Folk community; no, he is a selfish scoundrel who induces social unrest and provokes future conflicts which, whatever happens, must end in harming the Folk.”

    A.H. M.K Volume 1, Chapter 12

    We are investing some major $ and resources in to publishing a high end, Graphic Novel type book the Philosophy of Hitler the Essentials of MK. using the illustrations of the Great Artist Farstar. This book should be published in 2018. We’re going to market it heavily in places like India and Japan.

    We have published a text only version and are receiving very positive reviews. It’s $12 (domestic) postage and handling included. Contact:

    [email protected]

  19. I didn’t listen to this snore fest, between 2 ineffectual mongrel lesbians. I couldn’t get past Anglin’s mewling about his persecution. I appreciate Hunter’s breakdown. This spares me from wasting my time listening to those 2 irrelevant fags – who are doing NOTHING to help Whites.

    I’ve been listening to David Icke’s clarification of the real differences between the Alt Right and the Anti-White thugs.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CAN-VbxNO0

    Icke’s an interesting fellow, due to his very interesting interpretation of…well…existence itself. He offers concise breakdown of Things As They are, and what to do about things.. It’s infinitely better than anything I’ve heard from Official Alt Right ((((TM))) Leadership.

      • Listen to his advice on for the Alt White, and Humans, on What to do about the Jew Reptilians. I regard Iche’s name for Jews “aka” reptilians as a way ’round censorship. However – has any-one offered concrete proof that Jews are NOT actually bona fide shape-shifting reptilians?

    • Can’t bring myself to watch it either, Denise – gay snoozefest between mystery meat Prarie Jew faggot vs. a man who seriously advocates for White men to beat their girlfriends and wives, in the style of his favorite Muslim mongrel barbarians who he believes to be ‘alpha’. This is the Roosh V mongrel male crowd. Shallow, retarded, Talmudic commentary on esoteric points of their high-school-level ‘debate’ from distracted, timid Whites is totally retarded and meant to distract from plans on securing safe White homelands and removing the (((reptilian))) parasite.

  20. The Left/Right labels are contextual to when and where you’re talking about. Anglin’s blanket definitions are silly.

    National Socialism may be considered ‘right wing’ in Europe. I don’t know enough about tbh.

    But in the US the main dividing line between left/right has been about Gov vs Individual & Fed Gov vs States, including but not limited to economic issues.

    Since at least the 1950’s the Right has been associated with decentralization and anti- collectivist.

    In 2017 US, pro collectivist/central authority National Socialism is far Left.

    Side note: Hunter you’re the brightest and seemingly most sincere and consistent of the Unite The Right crowd. Running with the Nazi goons and media clowns like Spencer will only drag you and Southern Nationalist cause down. They’re toxic. Would distance yourself. Just my unsolicited advice.

    • It has enough elements to be labeled of the centre.

      NS is technologically progressive, expansionist, centralising (destroys local German identities and traditions similar to how capitalism does).

      And Nietzsche (associated with NS) is corrupting, though sometimes right.

      It’s also not a long-term, enduring system. Hitler had no successor, and societies that are built to endure and to preserve themselves tend not to be expansionist.

    • What do you think of when someone says, “right wing”? I think of Amish farmers and Spartan warriors, well educated monks and pious, educated aristocrats (who are noted for their virtues, not wealth.) I think of statesmen who fear power, fear man’s fallen nature, and only grasp at it reluctantly, to ensure those more fallen can’t wield it.

      When someone says NS, I think of a half German cyborg who won’t stop goose stepping around, destroying stuff. And he won’t listen to why he oughtn’t destroy certain things, because he’s exerting his “will”. As Machiavelli warned, it’s better to err than to hesitate. So, he doesn’t hesitate but acts without thought.

      And when I think of a Communist, I think of a guy who won’t stop inciting slave revolts, inviting in enemies to fight the locals for him, and otherwise dividing and conquering. He doesn’t simply wish to exert his “will”; he wishes to burn everything and anything. All must be rendered ash.

      What seems to have happened with German NS is that in fighting the Communists, they in part became like the Communists. If Hitler hadn’t been so aggressive, hadn’t entered Poland, Britain might not have declared war. Then he could have fought the Russians when they inevitably would have invaded Poland to get at Germany.

      You wouldn’t expect an NS to heed GK Chesterton’s recommendation that before tearing a fence down, seek to understand why it was put up in the first place. To actually honour one’s ancestors would be against one’s individual “will”. So, instead the NS goose steps and joins the Communist in burning everything down.

      Then the capitalist comes along, starts his “creative destruction”, paves over everything with his Rearden Metal. He’s implementing his Objectivist “morality”, building efficient systems that serve his appetites and glorify his individual ego.

      All of these things are too modern. In the milieu, we need something right-wing, truly conservative, truly pious. We need people who enjoy life as it is, who honour their ancestors not as precursors to their individual greatness but for being truly admirable, likely more estimable than we’ll ever be unless exerting great effort to refine ourselves.

  21. Seems like since Charlottesville people like Ramzpaul et al have tried to declare the Alt Right dead while they attempt to scoop up the broken pieces and put everything back together within a civic nationalist alt lite or such….the ‘debate’ seems to be part of this effort- but Vox Day showed us how ignorant & arrogant he can be. ( I’m not a big fan of Anglin either- his over-the-top critique of women plus his treatment of the Jewish question is a turn off, or overkill ).

    • The DS is totally, 100% correct on the Jewish issues. There is NO SUCH thing as ‘overkill’ when it comes to (((them))). Very sadly, Jewish anti-White cultural poison seems to have personally affected Anglin’s own family so badly (probably via feminist mother) that he now, in his thirties, attempts to rationalize and mock the degradation and destruction of White women under Jewish genocidal control. It’s not good.

    • Paul Ramsey is a totally unoriginal, annoying, and boring Jew. Mischling controlled op by birth. He has turned his narcissistic hobby of recording with a video camera the lecturing and ranting he feels the need to share with the world and has crowned himself ‘Ramzpaul,’ a faggoty pseudo-Hollywood name well suited to the Alt Lite Judeo-phobic crowd lapping up the Alt Lite retard cottage industry shilling safe opinions on Youtube.

      Very, very interesting that those seeking fame in this ‘movement’ (and being given it by the MSM, or are covered at all) are all Jews, have Jewish ancestry, or are obviously compromised shabbos goy. Lauren Southern the semi-literate cam whore, Molyneux the financial scammer, and the shabbos goy ‘Dr.’ Jordan B. Peterson – psych Ph.D., not M.D. – who makes like $60 grand a month off of thankful and desperate Alt-Liters via Patreon, yet his suggested website reading list looks like it was composed by a rabbi and a (((social worker))). Richard Spencer the confused and co-opted will never tell the truth about Jews or advocate for a non-fantasy White homeland outside of the ‘ethnostate’, what with his non-white wife and child. Sad group…

  22. The Conversation That Ended It

    Spacebunny: “Theodore?

    Vox: “Not our name today, Minionbunny.

    Spacebunny: “Oh, Jesus Christ!

    Vox: “Getting Warmer.

    Spacebunny: “Oh, God,” she continues under her breath, “not this shit again!

    Vox: “Almost there.

    Spacebunny: Face in her palm, tears of regret stream down her face, as she chokes back a sob, “My Supreme Dark Lord?

    Vox: “Very good, for someone with such a miniscule IQ, Minionbunny! What is it?

    Spacebunny: “I want a divorce.

    Vox: “That is rhetoric, not dialectic. We’re so disappointed in you.

  23. O/T: Zionist faggot retard and unabashed Jewish slave, Sen. Mike Lee of Utah, actually uses the (((bullying))) of a Catholic judicial nominee to DEFEND JUDAISM and hilariously claim that during the Revolutionary War, some Yid in a militia got past the British thanks to his YIDDISH. O Say Can You See, dumb goyim! I wonder which (((historian))) discovered that?

    “I’ve been doing a lot of thinking lately about the fascinating men and women of America’s Founding Generation. I want to share with you one of their stories.

    Jonas Phillips was a penniless Jewish immigrant, an indentured servant, a hard-working businessman, and an American patriot who served in the Philadelphia Militia during the Revolutionary War. During the British occupation of New York, he snuck messages past the censors by writing in Yiddish.

    Years later, Phillips addressed a letter to George Washington and the delegates at the Constitutional Convention.

    He urged them not to include a religious test in the Constitution as a requirement for public service, because no man, he wrote, should be “deprived or abridged of any Civil Right as a Citizen on account of his Religious sentiments.”

    Jonas Phillips wrote this letter because Pennsylvania, the state where he lived, required officials to swear that the New Testament was inspired by God. As a faithful Jew, Jonas Phillips could not do that.

    “By the above law,” he wrote, “a Jew is deprived of holding any public office or place of government.”

    Thankfully, Jonas Phillips’ letter … his prayer … was answered. Days earlier, the convention had voted unanimously to ban religious tests for federal office.

    The language the Framers inserted into the Constitution was unequivocal: “No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.”

    When the Founders wrote “ever,” they meant it.”

    • Jews weren’t even granted citizenship in all 13 states early on, as far as I’m aware. I don’t claim to know that bit of pedantry, but this was a Christian society even if the federal government was not.

      • The major contribution of the US to politics is the emancipation of the yids. Sorry you cannot back off this!

  24. Anglin makes some good point, but he carries a big baggage made up of trashy larping as nazi.

    He’s a class clown. Let him troll. He’s amusing that way.

    But WE can make his arguments better and more cogently.. while also avoiding his insane antics.

  25. Lemming and corrupt politicians somber 9/11.Urban cities majority non whites Open borders and travel visas unabated. Several years from now or later,severe impact with more devastation.We have to fight them over there of carpet bombing,wipe out villages etc, for democrazy.

  26. Mr. Wallace…

    You are refusing to “see” this latest alt-rite fissure as the inevitability of IN-FIGHTING amongst rival anti-white (S)upremacists hiding in plain sight in the realm of The Right.

    First, WHY make any effort in asserting Nazism as an ideology of the right while FAILING MISERABLY to defend it as an ideology of national socialism?

    Secondly, why cannot Vox Day or Andrew Anglin simply renounce the Jew qua Jew as the premier anti-white (S)upremacist? The demonization is one hundred percent true in regards to “the chosen ones.”

    Thirdly, both Vox Day and Andrew Anglin, being the anti-white (S)upremacists that they are, possess some aspect of fatal egalitarianism. For Vox Day, it is his disbelief in “human supremacy,” i.e., no master race. For Anglin, it is his false belief that Nazism is white (S)upremacy.

    ALL are anti-white (S)upremacy in the end times of total white degeneracy.

  27. Where “universal equality” is false, a Master Race is true. High IQ “white” males have bailed out along side jew… No! Who?

  28. White man is “currency” NO MATTER the integrity of a build-up-over-decades/centuries of infrastructure used to “open source” this most basic economic reality. To be taxed just is to submit to hard reality. To have one’s “currency” hacked, stolen, taxed, diverted, inverted and reverted is the “make-tricks” reality being lead by a malevolently-inspired high “intelligence.”

  29. The Right are those who believe in objective (S)upremacy…

    All others are perpetuating self-annihilators of one cloak or another.

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