Caribbean Project: Jews, Slavery, and the Dutch Caribbean

African slaves in Dutch Curaçao toil for their Jewish masters
Curaçao

For much of the summer, I have focused intensively on the British West Indies and the French West Indies because of their strong organic ties to the culture of the Lower South.

We have seen how the type of race-based plantation slave society that emerged in South Carolina and Louisiana was pioneered in the British and French Caribbean and was brought there by settlers from the islands.

The Dutch Caribbean also played a crucial role in this story – it was Sephardic Jews operating through the Dutch West India Company that brought race-based plantation slavery from Brazil to Barbados in the 1640s which became the model for the spread of slavery throughout the whole Caribbean and the American South.

From the 1620s to the 1650s, Spanish hegemony in the Caribbean was on the wane as a consequence of the Thirty Years’ War in Europe and Spain began to lose its grip over much of the region and the entirety of the eastern Caribbean to Britain, France, and the Netherlands.

– England took St. Kitts (1624), Barbados (1627), Nevis (1628), Providence (1630), Antigua (1632), Montserrat (1632), and Jamaica (1655).

– France claimed Saint-Christophe (1625), Saint-Domingue (1641), Guadeloupe (1635) and Martinique (1635).

– The Dutch claimed St. Martin (1631), Curaçao (1634), St. Eustatius (1635), Saba (1640), and Aruba and Bonaire (1634).

The Dutch islands of St. Martin, St. Eustatius, and Saba are part of the Leeward Islands in the northern Lesser Antilles. Curaçao, Aruba, and Bonaire are small islands off the coast of Venezuela to the west of Trinidad and Tobago.

In 1630, the Dutch seized Pernambuco and Recife in northeastern Brazil where they heavily invested in the sugar plantations that would become the nucleus of the New World agro-industrial plantation complex. From 1630 to 1654, Dutch Brazil was known as New Holland.

It is important to keep this in perspective: American slavery was a sideshow in the larger story of slavery in the Americas, about 600,000 slaves were brought to British North America, 5% of the 12 million that were brought to the New World.

In contrast, 3 million African slaves were brought to Brazil to work on sugar plantations, 35% of the 12 million that were brought to the New World. Another 17% percent were brought to Spanish America by the Portuguese, Dutch, English, and French under the asiento system.

As previously noted, Jews were heavily involved in the slave trade in the Dutch and Portuguese colonies, and their trading outposts on these islands served as major hubs for supplying Spanish America and the British and French Caribbean with slaves.

The island of Curaçao directly off the Spanish Main played a key role in Jewish involvement in the slave trade:

“Though small in size, Curaçao’s Jewish community has a significant impact on history, as per their heavy involvement in the slave trade. Curaçao is home to the oldest active Jewish congregation in the Americas, dating to 1651. The Curaçao synagogue is the oldest synagogue of the Americas in continuous use, since its completion in 1732 on the site of a previous synagogue.”

According to The Caribbean: A History of the Region and Its Peoples, Sephardic Jews outnumbered the Dutch in Curaçao and Suriname:

“In the seventeenth century, Curaçao emerged as an economic powerhouse based on legal and illegal commerce, not least the slave trade to Spanish America … Another social factor in the Dutch colonies that was largely absent from the French Caribbean was the presence of mainly Sephardic Jews in Curaçao and Suriname, where they actually outnumbered the Dutch.”

The Jew also brought race-based plantation slavery to the French Caribbean, not just to Barbados and the British Caribbean:

“Robert Louis Stein argues that the introduction of commercial sugarcane planting to the French West Indies was “the most significant single event” to occur during the 17th century. It was linked, he says, to the arrival of Dutch and Jewish settlers from Brazil, who were the driving force behind “sugar and slavery” there, as well as tobthe development of the regional market in enslaved Africans. (Stein 1979, 9-11).”

So, the Jew was the driving force behind the emergence of the nucleus of race-based, modern, agro-industrial plantation slavery in Brazil, and was the dominant force in Curaçao and Suriname, as well as spreading this model to the nearby British and French West Indies from where it was launched to North America.

“In Curaçao, a group of Spanish and Portuguese Jews with the necessary linguistic skills and good connections in the Atlantic became decisive actors. This model procured for Amsterdam an enormous quantity of precious metals during the middle decades of the 17th century, although in the long term it proved too fragile to resist competition from foreign countries.”

What do you suppose the Jews in Curaçao were trading for Spanish gold and silver? African slaves would be my guess. I’m feeling like I am getting a bite here. I can feel something big pulling on the end of the line.

Update: More on Curaçao as a center of the slave trade:

Although these laws dislodged the Dutch from the official carrying trade with these islands, illegal trade continued to flourish. More important, in 1662 the Dutch secured a new asiento to trade slaves in Spanish America – a trade made easier for them by the growing number of trading posts in Africa and an enterprise that signaled the tightening of connections between the Caribbean, Afeica, and the American mainland. The Spanish colonies of Santo Domingo and Puerto Rico were increasingly important in this trade, and Curaçao (and later St. Eustatius) emerged as its lucrative center. Despite formal trade prohibitions, the Dutch also supplied the French colonies of Martinique, Guadeloupe, and Saint-Domingue. Thus the Dutch continued to generate great wealth through legal and extralegal commerce and especially the slave trade.”

Note: How much truth is there in this video? We’re going to find out eventually.

50 Comments

  1. Stonelifter hasn’t even the balls to address me directly. And where does he get off talking about ideals or what our founders believed? That degenerate shames the memory of our founders by calling for this country, their only posterity, to be ripped in two, just so he can see his lazy ancestors’ failed slave-empire/aristocracy resurrected.

  2. Seeing how it is the diseased, anti-racist culture of the North (aka the “Free States”) that imposes one folly after another on America (the latest being gay marriage), I would say the problem clearly lies on their side of the border.

  3. “Porn isn’t killing our White kids in the womb, destabilizing White families, ruining millions of marriage or deceasing the size of our White families. White feminist women are”

    1. Porn is destabilizing white families and ruining millions of marriages.

    Abortion and divorce are equally important issues to me, with abortion taking the top place. Porn is the issue we now discuss because porn may be analogous to slavery in that slavery, like porn, may have negative effects on the host that the host does not clearly recognize. These negative effects come forward in the slave societies’ inability to protect itself from outside interference and destruction.

    All that needs to happen for Western Women to be put back in their place is for Western Men to put them there. Porn is not beneficial to men in their attempt to retake their domain.

    Porn can destroy men’s lives, and especially children’s lives, without a feminazi even present. That shit is toxic. I don’t think you recognize the extent of its corrosiveness. Just like you may not realize the extent of slavery’s corrosiveness. The only evidence of its corrosiveness I offer is that it lost. As men are losing now.

  4. “Seeing how it is the diseased, anti-racist culture of the North (aka the “Free States”) that imposes one folly after another on America (the latest being gay marriage), I would say the problem clearly lies on their side of the border.”

    Point taken. Nevertheless, in the war for slavery worldwide, where all sides for and against called in all their chits, slavery didn’t have allies. That means that even in the time when it was widely accepted, it wasn’t universally accepted.

    But there are better arguments against Northern stupidity than slavery.

  5. Didn’t have “as many” allies. Not didn’t have any allies. Meaning the majority of the force and wealth of whiteness was anti-slavery.

  6. The “Founders” really weren’t the founding generation though: Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia were founded by the British. Florida was founded by the Spanish. Louisiana was founded by the French.

    Why are they called the Founders? What does that mean aside from supporting the Patriot cause? Florida rejected the American Revolution. Bermuda and the Bahamas and the British West Indies didn’t join the American Revolution even though they were also “founded” by our people.

    Was there nothing before the “Founding Fathers”? Oh wait, there were eons of our existence as English subjects, not to mention eons of history for the Irish, Scots, and the Welsh, as well as for other Europeans in North America.

  7. It further reinforces my point that a homogeneous “pro-White” society is nonsensical because metropolitan Whites – whether British, French, Spanish, or Dutch – lacked the White racial consciousness of their colonies and tend to be ideologically oriented and prone to fanaticism.

    The problem is indisputably not on our end. It is not the South that is driven to violence to impose negro equality and integration on the North. It was not Saint-Domingue that imposed negro equality on France.

    Liberalism and communism and fag marriage and integration flourish in the homogeneous areas that have no history of slavery and which lack racial consciousness.

    The only thing the South needs from the North is independence – the North’s problems are much deeper in that it relishes and makes a fetish out of unending social revolution which it calls “progress.”

  8. Not that any white, north or south, is doing any kind of job of defending itself from attack. But what sound general blames the lunacy of the other side for losing?

    Gee boss. They were lunatics. Nothing I could do.

    That dog don’t hunt.

  9. Two Conclusions:

    1. The North is nuts, no doubt.

    2. The South lost to an insane people.

    Ergo:

    3. Slavery weakens the host like porn.

  10. The South wasn’t flooded by millions of Irish and German immigrants in the nineteenth century.

    Yankees won the War Between the States because of their overwhelming population advantage, but they were overwhelmed and submerged in their own homeland.

    In 2012, we are still a distinct people, although a minority in this godforsaken Union, whereas the North is a confused multiethnic society dominated by Jews.

    The Southern defeat in the War Between the States was caused by a series of errors but none of them were as important as the foolish decision to join the Union in the first place on the basis of mere paper guarantees.

  11. There is nothing we can do within the Union to defend ourselves from attack.

    What can we do? The whole North and much of the West is formally allied with blacks and Hispanics and put Obama in office and passed all the civil rights laws and the immigration laws and created BRA and are responsible for most of the liberal judges that gut everything we try to do at the state level.

  12. Stonelifter says:
    ‘That’s your problem Sam. You are telling me what other men think of the Bible and not dealing with the Word itself’

    Now, Mr. Stonelifter, are you seriously telling me these emminent bible scholars are not dealing with the word? Adam Clark was a brilliant man. He dedicated his life to God and the bible. He spent years examining and interpreting every friggin verse. He could read and write 7-8 languages and was an authority on the ancient Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek. You must consider context, content and the idioms of the day to properly interpret scriptural writings.

    Starting from Genesis, he gives the Hebrew meaning and geographical location of every city. All the particulars of the Patriarchs, their families and timelines. Line by line translations/interpretations of the Psalms and every prohetic book.

    Gives insights to a myriad of jewish ceremonial laws and customs. He was well versed in Rabbinical expositions as well.

    From Matthew to Revelation. Every step of Jesus, the Apostles and characters great or small are covered.

    A Pastor gave me an Adam Clark commentary as a gift nearly 40 years ago and I was absolutely stunned at his briliance and depth of knowledge.

  13. You’re trying to give your people traction by reforming the current historical perspective of slavery. From a hundred miles up I can only guess how it worked. I know if I owned a slave it would take a whole lot more of my time than having an employee. My mind would always be on my slave. This would take my mind away from the consideration of Truth and its furtherance. I would become distant, separated. I would be making more money than my non slave-owning neighbor, simply because I had fewer scruples, or was born to think differently about the issue. This would cause immense jealousy.

    Seems like a whole lot of drama. Good money though, for sure. More white unity? In your little part of the world, sure. And jealousy and scheming outside of your world to destroy you, by others of your own kind. Northern or otherwise. Enemy always at the gates.

    Reminds me of The Proud Tower. I make my compromises for sure. But I try to make them ones that don’t bite me in the ass.

  14. Hunter, You make it sound like no white Southron had a hand in creating BRA. With full acknowledgement that it is a Yankee creation, I still find it hard to believe that no native Southron supports it.

    If you walked out your door and walked to your hundred closest native Southron neighbors, I bet at least 20 would be supportive of BRA.

  15. Sam, while you use what other men have to say about the Bible to justify your position I use only the Bible. Any reference to what those men wrote about the Bible is wasted on me and most likely tainted by whatever personal preferences they have ingrained in them at child birth. God is my authority and His word. Not other men

    Chris it’s pointless to address you because all you have is insults. The Founding Fathers owned slaves and believed in nullification and that the states were sovereign in their own right. Free to leave the union,free to nullify laws and go their own way. These things they believed in are things I believe in and you do not. They themselves were “rebels and traitors” to the crown but loyal to liberty. Liberty mattered to them, not lines on a map. My forefathers followed in their footsteps. Sons of men who fought for the Revolution fought the yankees. Who knew better what the Founding Fathers believed in then the men raised by them? I am loyal to their ideals, not lines on the map. You are loyal to lincoln who had a bad opinion of Jefferson, a Founding Father. Things you believe in are of lincoln and the GOP not the Founding Fathers. Northern states threaten to secede and actually nullified laws under Jefferson and Madison. Neither behaved like lincoln or you. I’ve posted links on it several times. You have never offered one source to counter anyone’s arguments, let alone mine. Jefferson thought it likely that the states formed from the Louisiana purchased would eventually form their own nation. Jefferson also thought the nation wouldn’t last very long because of various things and that would be a positive. You have none of their founding principles. You know nothing about the founding fathers that you didn’t learn from your public funded indoctrination and you refuse to learn better or try to offer a counter argument based on more than “because I said so” with insults thrown in. Just like a woman and the typical leftist who is completely ignorant on the topic. What makes you stupid and useless is, you don’t have the drive to learn the truth. Many yankees here know the truth and they don’t call us the names you do. You are the perfect little tool of the left. Arguing with you is pointless; it’s like arguing with a retard because of your indoctrination and ignorance. Now you’re going to go on an insult rampage because that’s the only tool you have. Enjoy demonstrating your stupidity.

    It wasn’t a war on slavery Landshark. Read lincoln’s 1st inaugural address. You also think slaves had to be chained 24 hours a day and some other things that weren’t true. They were often sent on chores miles away with no supervisor and they returned. Some where given guns to go hunting with or to mange predators and they didn’t turn them on Whites. Your whole understanding of the topic is off

    Hunter’s point, I think, isn’t no Southron had a hand in making BRA, but that Southron helping numbers are low. It was yankee numbers that drove the train. Leastwise that’s mine understanding of events. And 20 Southrons supporting BRA is a still a lot less then up there in yankee land. We have election results to bare this out

    I’m not pro porn, Landshark, I’ve heard all the stuff you listed but don’t see it playing out like that in the world. For a while, I went to a mega church with a huge anti porn axe to grind. After a while of doing mentoring stuff they asked me to work with young men in one of the porn addiction groups. When I was working with men who had porn problems I learned most didn’t have a problem or an addiction. Their work went fine, they could meet their wives sexual needs, they got along with their kids, their kids loved them, were at ease with them, they didn’t forgo family events to view porn etc etc but the church made them feel bad for trying to meet their sexual needs when their wives would not. There were a couple of men that had real problems, but for 90% of the men the problem was their wife had gotten fat and/ or didn’t put out while feeding him a constant stream of criticisms over minor shit. Porn it isn’t the problem. Such things have always been around and nations have survived and thrived. House wife porn is much worse of a problem in my opinion because it helps lead women astray, and they are already astray enough. But the church and Christians don’t speak out on all the shit women do wrong, only on the small thing that men are sinning with. I’ve rejected the whole feminized church and it’s spin on things, including the false hoods about how destructive pron is

  16. PS, Sam if you look around you will find all manner of very well regard Bible scholars who supported slavery at the time on Biblical grounds. I’d call that a wash on the Bible nerd wars

  17. Paul and other writers seemed to expect the Return was immanent, to happen in their lifetimes, and therefore Paul advised the unmarried not to seek a wife, servants not to seek release (though he did advise them to accept freedom when or if it was offered, very likely by a converted master), and everyone to remain in their “station” until the Lord returns very shortly. Converts married to unbelievers were advised to remain in their relationship not only for the sake of the unbreakable vow but also as a Christian witness toward the unbelieving spouse, and any children, so they might be led to become believers also. Whatever suffering that entailed would amount to nothing in comparison to their reward. Slave-master relationships and general obedience to authorities (paying taxes, obeying laws) were to be maintained mostly for the same purpose: as a witness.

    None of the faithful characters in any of the Biblical stories enslaved their own people or other peoples. The verse from Ephesians is taken out of context of the scriptures as a whole.

  18. Stonelifter, the water-into-wine story is the favourite “proof text” taken out of the context of the abundant warnings against drunkeness and stories of calamities caused by wine. “Be not drunk with wine, but be filled with the spirit!”

  19. David, Joshua and Caleb didn’t conquer and enslave?

    Your argument also implies the parts of the Bible by Paul are not divinely inspired or infallible, not good for instructions etc etc

  20. “Slave-master relationships and general obedience to authorities (paying taxes, obeying laws) were to be maintained mostly for the same purpose: as a witness.”

    Mosin- do you realize what you just said? Since the PAROUSIA did NOT happen during St. Paul- or the Apostle’s- lifetimes, and the days of ‘marrying and giving in marriage’ have continued for over 2000 years, SO TOO, have the legal permissions to hold Chattel Slaves, and pass them on to one’s heirs, given legitimacy by the Mosaic Law! So, too, the rationale for taxing citizens/subjects by LAWFUL authorities.

    While the Epistle to Philemon as a ‘charter to abolish slavery’ makes for good copy in abolitionist gnostic minds, the fact is, the Bible should interpret itself- and the O.T. clearly shows that chattel slavery is both a given, and God-ordained. If it weren’t, Douggie Wilson’s little book would have elicited a ‘Yeah, so what?’ rather than the HATEFEST the Liberal LOONIE Left have engaged in, since the days of their poster child, MLK- hell, it goes back to Stowe and John Brown, the original MAD MAN of the filioquist, egalitarian, protestant West.

    http://thewhitechrist.wordpress.com/2011/03/29/lev-2544-46-part-two/

    That’s why LandShark’s comment- “My mind would always be on my slave. This would take my mind away from the consideration of Truth and its furtherance. I would become distant, separated. I would be making more money than my non slave-owning neighbor, simply because I had fewer scruples, or was born to think differently about the issue. This would cause immense jealousy.”

    Is disingenuous. If you realize that Blacks are NOT ADAMKIND, their chattel status becomes one with one’s cows, or sheep. More like sheep, in that Blacks are NOT intelligent, are prone to be drifters, etc. and that’s why you hired a mean SOB (like Stone) to be your Foreman on the plantation, to ‘whup their butts in shape.’ When laws kept your slaves as your own, and society kept that law, you would have had no fear. With RFID chips today, your ‘property’ would ALWAYS come back to you… as long as YS’s weren’t around!

    Stone- thanks for these words about Chris, the kid.
    “Just like a woman and the typical leftist who is completely ignorant on the topic. What makes you stupid and useless is, you don’t have the drive to learn the truth. Many yankees here know the truth and they don’t call us the names you do. You are the perfect little tool of the left. Arguing with you is pointless; it’s like arguing with a retard because of your indoctrination and ignorance. Now you’re going to go on an insult rampage because that’s the only tool you have. Enjoy demonstrating your stupidity.”

    Sometimes, the posters on this board, just don’t go the full distance in iterating their worldviews, or their Worldviews are still Yankee, filioquist and Protestant, and they don’t even know it……

  21. warning against drunkenness is not a command to not drink.

    Proverbs 31:6

    New International Version (©1984)
    Give beer to those who are perishing, wine to those who are in anguish;

    New Living Translation (©2007)
    Alcohol is for the dying, and wine for those in bitter distress.

    English Standard Version (©2001)
    Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress;

    New American Standard Bible (©1995)
    Give strong drink to him who is perishing, And wine to him whose life is bitter.

    King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
    Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
    Strong drink is given to mourners and wine to bitter souls,

    GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
    Give liquor to a person who is dying and wine to one who feels resentful.

    http://bible.cc/proverbs/31-6.htm

  22. “House wife porn is much worse of a problem in my opinion because it helps lead women astray, and they are already astray enough. But the church and Christians don’t speak out on all the shit women do wrong, only on the small thing that men are sinning with.”

    Yes, “women’s porn” does exist, and it is also sin!

    But the “thing that men are sinning with” is NOT “SMALL”! There is no “small sin,” or harmless, innocent sin. Baptists who are “once saved always saved” may think they can do anything now, look at women not their wives to commit adultery with them in their hearts, or do so in reality, or even commit murder for hire, etc., and yet never fall from their “eternally-secure” grace, but the truth is otherwise, and it will all be revealed! ALL sin must stop, including the porn that you think is alright for men but not for women, or our people as a whole will continue to fail.

  23. Fr John, I’ll follow Jesus, and Paul, and the New Testament, before Moses and Solomon on the slavery issue.

  24. Outlier,

    that the stupidity of Exodus.

    Obama has styled himself as Joshua before. Battering down the walls of Jericho.
    MLK as their Moses. The blacks as the brickmaking slaves.

    The reality is the blacks are an urban plague used to depress property values and attack or displace the actual builders. It’s also likely that the Israelites were just a brigade of mercenaries in an occupying Semitic federation of Hyksos warrior chiefs.
    A minor footnote and a thoroughly nasty bunch.

  25. You twist my words Mosin, I didn’t say it wasn’t a sin. I said it doesn’t do the amount of damage to our people Landshark laid out, and doesn’t do near the damage that feminism and the feminized church does to our people. No where near close but I also understand most Christian men are totally feminized so the take on the feminine approve anti porn crusade instead of the real killer, our women

    “Most Christian figures in that early period, such as Saint Augustine, supported continuing slavery”

    “In the book of Genesis, Noah condemns Ham and his descendents to perpetual servitude: “Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers” Gn 9:25″

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery

  26. referring to slavery

    St. Thomas Aquinas, Luther, and Calvin were all Augustinian on this point. Although the subjection of one person to another was not part of the primary intention of the natural law, St. Thomas taught, it was appropriate and socially useful in a world impaired by original sin.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery

    anyrate my point to all this is, the issue isn’t as clear as folks would say and if they care what the Bible says on a topic, read the Bible and make your own call. That’s why God gave us His written word and working minds

  27. Stone,

    I undertand where you are coming from on Porn — most people can function while using it. Fair enough. There are functioning alcoholics and heroin addicts as well. Just like most people can function while using slavery. I do think pornography gradually coarsens the soul and perverts our individual destinies and cultures, just like slavery may. This would explain why Jews were up to their eyeballs and took a special glee in it. I slavery MAY. I do not know if it did or not. I only know when the chips were down the slaving cultures couldn’t find the allies. Repeat. In a better world, the slaving cultures COULD NOT FIND THE ALLIES.

    I also did not say the Civil War was over slavery. I repeat THE CIVIL WAR WAS NOT OVER SLAVERY. I did say that the fact that they were slavers PROBABLY WEIGHED AGAINST THEM in the court of public opinion. The slaving merely “set the hook” into those on the fence.

    Fr. John, you say I’m being disingenuous about my being concerned about my slave all the time. I own dogs and I’m concerned about them. Horses and cows would be even more concerning. But they don’t have the added burden of being able to communicate and being at least mildly recognizable as a human. I may coarsen myself to my slave over time, and certainly if I grew up in a slaving culture wouldn’t have a problem with it, but I can’t say it would be a “step up” for my personal humanity or my relationship with God. Although I haven’t completely made the step to blacks not being people, I don’t have any problem seeing them largely as the enemies of white civilization and treating them as a group as such. But damn, they’re not people? That’s a leap I’m not sure God wants me to take. Now Jews? That’s another issue altogether. One thing is for sure — Blacks have a greater capacity for loving Christ than Jews do. By that measure alone they have a value beyond sticking in the cellar and pulling out for farm chores.

    In the final analysis, in spite of all the masses of wealth slave owning societies created, and in spite of alliance with the Jews in the endeavor, and in spite of it being a time of much greater overall ethnic white identity awareness around the world, the great mass of white human POWER chose against it. Chose AGAINST great wealth and ease. AGAINST!!! Not knowing one way or the other for sure, I have to assume they saw something they didn’t like.

    Has the entire effort gone way too far? Of course. It’s out of control. Completely beyond the realm of any rational backstop. But bottom line, if the cost of retaking our world is chattel slavery, and if past is prologue, I’m not sure you’re going to get may whites to bite.

  28. I got you Landshark; and in no way am I trying to say porn is ok. However I do think there are bigger more damaging dragons to slay

  29. Fair enough Stone. Now one more question. On an objective level, disregarding Biblical morality, is it a step up or a step down for a human soul to see blacks as property?

  30. “That degenerate shames the memory of our founders by calling for this country, their only posterity, to be ripped in two, just so he can see his lazy ancestors’ failed slave-empire/aristocracy resurrected.”

    I think Stonelifter mentioned he has Randolph blood before. If that is so then he is related to Thomas Jefferson because Jefferson’s mother was Jane Randolph. There absolutely are direct blood descendants and relatives of the founding fathers still alive today. They had many who were in the Confederate Army. Thomas Jefferson’s grandson Thomas Jefferson Randolph supported the Confederacy and even though he was too old to fight was given commission as a colonel.

    George Wythe Randolph was another grandson of Thomas Jefferson who was a Confederate General and was also Confederate Secretary for War for a time.

    So when you say this government is those men’s “only posterity” you couldn’t be more wrong. In fact this government has been so subverted from its original intended purpose I would say what exists today is not their “posterity” at all.

    The entity known as the “United States of America” is just a government that is all it is and when it becomes the instrument of oppression of “We the People” then it is not only a right but it becomes a duty to see it abolished.

    The “Founding Fathers” were the founders of the American Republic not the American people. The American and Southern people were created by living a semi-isolated existence for 170 plus years 3,000 miles away from the motherland on a wild frontier.

  31. Fair enough Stone. Now one more question. On an objective level, disregarding Biblical morality, is it a step up or a step down for a human soul to see blacks as property?
    Landshark

    Fair question Landshark, but I’m not sure I can answer your question in the way you are asking/ looking. I don’t care for anything beyond Biblical morality and I simple don’t care. If the Bible doesn’t specifically condemn something, I do not condemn it. The Bible does not condemn owning people as property so I do not condemn it, or think it damages the soul. If there is no God, there is no soul to worry about. The condition of my soul depends on my right relationship with Christ and not my view on negros as property.

    Does that make sense? It’s a fair question like I said, so I want to be clear as possible on my response

    A-P-A, a Randolph on my mother’s side. One of the things they are known for is marrying well inside of VA. Just about all the big names of VA are connected to the Randolph’s by marriage in some fashion. ( here comes the inbreed jokes from Chris, more jealousy on his part). I am a descendant of the Founding names I usually rattle off, which is why I mention them specifically. They are not only the Founders of a nation but in a very real sense, the founders of my blood line

    Chris knows nothing about the topic and will not rectify the situation or offer any historically based argument or source for his argument

  32. Landshark – porn is totally dominated by Jews. They make a fortune off porn. Your slavery analogy is fascinating; like drug abuse – porn leeches energy away from solving real problems, and creates reams of false expectations.

    Now pornography and erotic have alwus existe,d in various cultures, but genrally speaking, those various cultures were controlled by the people OF those cultures. Not malevolent cultural and racial aliens. In addition – porn/erotica was “kept under wraps”. For adults, in adult settings – and the duties of Citizenship were FAR more important than a slavish devotion to porn.

    Mainstream aka Jewish media is mainstreaming pornography be the second. It IS an addiction. I’ve seen the fatal Siren’s call of porn fanatasy, when I was at University. Young, studly, virile guys were fixated; they wanted ot develop pornographic Internet programs that were capable of satisfying their specific fantasies, down to the last detail. One young fellow I knew was from a wealthy family, extremely good-looking, personable, and intelligent. He was not interested in the young, healthy women that flocked around him. He ONLY cared about porn. I knew about his fetished because we worked together on another project. We were developing ideas, etc, and he would rhapsodize about what he wanted to create. He wasn’t weird with me; we had no romantic interest in each other whatsoever. (We were not each other’s “type” – but worked together because we both had a rep for no dilly dallying, or ego tantrums, etc. We would just get the job done) I got weirded out when he began to tel me what he wanted to do. He was not graphic, or anything. I just could not understand WHY he had no interest in the real young women panting all over him. A lot of his would-be followers (classmates) were jealous of me, because I was “close” to him. I never gave up his secrets, during the entire time I attended University, cause [they] were confided in private, and we had an excellent “professional” relationship – but I was skeeved by him, and could never tell any of the girls that worshipped him precisely WHy they’s want to look elsewhere. I thnk he became a professional pornographer…

    Other young fellows, not as personally attractive, only knew to relate to women as “porn objects” – and NEVER developed the courting skills needed to attract an attractive partner.

    Porn is not harmless.

  33. Yes, there is no doubt the Randolph blood has been widely diffused, there are many with it. 🙂

    The inbred charge is silly, I’ve seen where a professor at Rutgers said that up to 80% of all marriages in history were between 2nd Cousins and closer which is what one would have expected until recent history where traveling relatively rapidly over long distances became far more easy.

    There is a good scene in Gettysburg where General Armistead points out to British Colonel Fremantle that many men around him in the Confederate Army have ancestral ties to notable persons who had served Virginia in the past and helped found the United States.

    I’m sure most have seen it but I’ll link to it anyway.

    http://goo.gl/Yi1k9

  34. The film didn’t explicitly point out that a genocide was occurring in the civil war. One group of white ethnics attempting to wipe out another (or locked in battle for supremacy).

    The irony is that the the most dispossessed people TODAY are the class of Anglo-New Englanders who directed much of the Union war policy. They have been obliterated and scattered by Jewish academics, Irish Journalists, German industrialists and a variety of Jewish, Italian and Irish Jurists on the Supreme court.

  35. I understand Stone.

    I hear you Denise. Porn has degraded us. A click away from any child. Porn, USA. Porn is a neutron bomb to individuals and cultures. Leaves them standing, but burns their soul away.

  36. Stonelifter says:
    ‘Sam, while you use what other men have to say about the Bible to justify your position I use only the Bible. Any reference to what those men wrote about the Bible is wasted on me and most likely tainted by whatever personal preferences they have ingrained in them at child birth. God is my authority and His word.’

    If not for these other men, scholars, you would not have any bibles to read. Who do you think translated ancient fragments, texts, documents into English? Would you be able to do so? Many mistakes in translating texts have occurred. Every bible student worth his salt takes advantage of concordances, commentaries, study guides and different translations. What is figurative language, what is not? The bible is filled with symbolism, idiomatic expressions and metaphors.

    How many people throughout history have cut off their hands and plucked out their eyes taking Matt. 5:29-30 literally?

    29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
    30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

    Last year a Pastor died after being bitten by a venomous snake in church. His father was a snake handler and died the same way.

    How tragic and stupid!

    They take the one snake handling verse and interpret it literally. So much for line upon line, precept upon precept.

    They revel in ignorance calling it faith. The word is their authority, they claim. Give me a break. They are arrogant, not humble, placing erroneous cherished traditions over sound exegesis.

    New breed of snake handlers.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2012-06-03/snake-handlers-pentecostal-tennessee/55354206/1

    Handling rattlesnakes in church.

    Hamblin, 21, pastor of Tabernacle Church of God in LaFollette, Tenn., is part of a new generation of serpent-handling Christians who are revitalizing a century-old faith tradition in Tennessee.

    While older serpent handlers were wary of outsiders, these younger believers welcome visitors and use Facebook to promote their often misunderstood — and illegal — version of Christianity. They want to show the beauty and power of their extreme form of spirituality. And they hope eventually to reverse a state ban on handling snakes in church.

    Since the early 1900s, a handful of true believers in Eastern Tennessee and other parts of Appalachia have practiced the so-called signs of the gospel, found in a little-known passage in the King James Version of the Gospel of Mark:

    “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”

    While other churches ignore this passage or treat it metaphorically, serpent handlers follow it literally. Their intense faith demands sinless living and rewards them with spiritual ecstasy — the chance to hold life and death in their hands.

  37. The seeds of the Civil War were sown during the Constitutional Convention and the following tug-of-war between the Fedreralists and the Anti-Fedreralists. The South took the side of the Anti-Fedreralists, which most of our founders would have taken. Note: the Framers were not the Founders.

  38. “George Whitefield, famed for his sparking of the so-called Great Awakening of American evangelicalism, campaigned, in the Province of Georgia, for the legalisation of slavery;[105][106] slavery had been outlawed in Georgia, but it was legalised in 1751 due in large part to Whitefield’s efforts.” That rotten old eternal security teaching misleader! Putting his theory of the chosen “Elect,” predestined to rule and prosper over those predestined to damnation, into practice.

  39. Sam, you’re right about the scholars and the secondary sources, and the misuse of “proof texts” such as we have seen in this thread

    Being Biblical is so easy — one can find a scripture for ANYthing one wants to do!

  40. “I went to a mega church with a huge anti porn axe to grind. After a while of doing mentoring stuff they asked me to work with young men in one of the porn addiction groups. (…) 90% of the men the problem was their wife had gotten fat and/or didn’t put out while feeding him a constant stream of criticisms over minor shit. Porn isn’t the problem (…) the church and Christians don’t speak out on all the shit women do wrong, only on the small thing that men are sinning with.”

    I did not twist your words before, but simply quoted them. I did not say that you did not say it was a sin. I said that it is not a “small thing.”

    Finally, note the Proverbs verse you quote prescribes wine for medicinal not recreational use.

  41. Ok Landshark, I didn’t want you to think I was dodging the question

    Sam, I am not trying to change your mind, or anyone else’s. I want to demonstrate that slavery has a sound Biblical foundation and a series of big name Bible nerds backing that position up, Calvin, St Thomas of what’s that place, the guy who inspired the Great Awaking ( who also, many nerds think, inspired the Revolution as well) and that the topic is more complex then folks make out.

    It’s called The Church of Signs and Wonders, by the way.

    Nice video clip Anglo-Protestant American, and backs up our point doesn’t it. And it reenforces the idea that the men who fought in the 2nd War for Independence learned about the political lineage of the Founders from men who themselves were the sons of Founders. That is often over looked, covered up. Hard to say those “rebels” didn’t understand the Constitution and the national history when you find out Southron leadership was often the sons and grandsons of Revolutionary war soldiers.

    I don’t think most understand how related and interconnected a people we were until large scale immigration. Probably plays a part in why some don’t understand how the South pulls on the Southron man’s heart. It makes sense that more folks up north don’t get it since most ethnic Whites went there, or how that has changed in the South only in the last 30-years or so. Seems to me their silly version of class-ism makes them look down on folks connected to the old names. Like we’re the rich elite they despise in Europe so much. The more I think about it, the stranger they are to me.

    I remember going to DoD schools as a kid, and yankee kids would say they were ¼ this that or the other White ethnic group. US Southron kids were just puzzled by it. They would squabble over who was better like Irish or Germans or some such we would squabble over which State was better like NC vs TX. If sure the yankee kids thought it equally silly.

    I am also distantly related to a Revolutionary war general from PA whose only surviving child move to NC after the war to get into the plantation business with her husband. Their children, descendants of a Revolutionary war general and captain, fought the yankees. My children are distantly related to some of Louisiana’s notables as well

    Good point Wayne. Most also don’t understand the Constitution was not very popular at 1st. They were supposed to modify the Articles of Confederation not make a new govt. The best tool they had to sell the States and the citizens of the States on the Constitutions was George Washington being the 1st president

  42. it doesn’t say as medicine in the Bible Mosin but I get it, you’re a yankee and their can be no reasonable disagreement with your moral superiority on these matters

  43. “(Y)ou’re a yankee and their can be no reasonable disagreement with your moral superiority….”

    It is a matter of accurate interpretation, superior exegesis, not moral superiority.

    I suppose anyone God allowed to be born and bred north of the Line deserves to wear the most shameful label on this site: “Yankee.”

  44. Thanks for the good link. The Quakers were a poorly disciplined, disuniform lot, many worshipping money rather than God. They were mostly not successful at farming even though they took the some of the best land early, and despite the occasional (not universal) use of slaves. Penn made his famous journey to the Rhine region to recruit German farmers he knew would be successful.

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