Yggdrasil Wins

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Texas

I think we can decline a winner in the Greg Johnson vs. Yggdrasil debate on Counter-Currents. The knockout punch was delivered earlier this afternoon.

The primary thrust of Greg Johnson’s attack on conservatives was against Yggdrasil and TOQ. The accusation was that Yggdrasil was a conservative sellout who was leading White Nationalists down a misguided path of trying to influence mainstream Republicans.

I would like to quote from that article:

“But when it comes to the political system, Gardner is still very much a conservative, a Republican even. He thinks that White Nationalists—a tiny, voiceless, despised, poorly funded, and poorly led movement—should aim at lobbying and “conditioning” Republicans to represent white interests. Gardner actually thinks that whites can vote and lobby and game ourselves out of this mess, as if our people have not been slated for slow and systematic genocide but are merely having a run of bad luck at the polls.”

Yggdrasil is “a conservative, a Republican even.”

It appears that Greg Johnson didn’t even bother to check out what conservative Republicans will be doing in the upcoming session of the Texas state legislature in Austin.

Here are some bills to watch in the upcoming session:

House Bill 17 (Riddle): Arizona Style/Police Checks — Allows police to check the immigration status of residents based on “reasonable suspicion” and arrest those who are illegal for violating criminal trespassing laws.

Senate Bill 126 (Patrick): Arizona Style/Police Checks — Companion bill to HB 17 that gives arresting officers immunity from any resulting discrimination-based lawsuits.

HB 22 (Riddle): Arizona Style — Requires public schools to determine the citizenship and immigration status of each student when that child enrolls in the school.

HB 177 (Jackson): Drivers Licenses — Requires proof of citizenship in order to get any occupational license, driver’s license, or official Texas ID.

HB 16 (Riddle): Voter ID — Would require voters to present photo identification or two forms of non-photo identification before they are allowed to cast ballots.

HB 197 (Solomons): Business Sanctions — Requires proof of citizenship to work in Texas and makes it a Class A misdemeanor to hire illegal immigrants.

SB 84 (Nelson): E-Verify — Requires Texas businesses to verify immigration status of potential hires.

House Joint Resolution 38 (Berman): English Only — A constitutional amendment to establish English as the official language of Texas and require that official acts of government be performed in English.

HB 81 (Flynn): English Only — Prohibits state agencies from using any public money to print non-English documents or signs.

Whoops.

About Hunter Wallace 10106 Articles
Founder and Editor-in-Chief of Occidental Dissent

50 Comments

  1. HW, a couple years back you were the one penning savage broadsides against conservatives on this very website.

    I wish you could accept that both Greg Johnson and Yggdrasil are right and leave it at that. You are wasting your considerable talents allowing yourself to be drawn into these pointless “you’re wrong I’m right; No I’m right you’re wrong” things.

  2. “They deserved it back then too. I hated George W. Bush and voted against him twice. ”

    Are you ever wrong?

  3. As it takes two legs to walk, so does a new ruling paradigm need both a political wing as well as a military wing.

    Recall that Americans had both folks working via parliamentary channels, as well as heroes stockpiling and drilling weapons.

    When enough strength is gathered, both wings will beat as one.

    Do your Quiet Work whichever wing you currently inhabit: voting for the vanguardists, personal military preparation for the mainstreamers.

  4. I think we need a post on some positive suggestions for things for “Vanguard” folks to do.

    The reality is that lots of racially aware White Americans can not make Conservative mainstream GOP politics work for them, where they live. I am not exactly living in a stronghold of White Republican Conservative political power… as there hasn’t been a straight, White, Republican Gentile elected to any office in my area in the last 87 years!

    🙂

    Sure, maybe American WN Vanguard folks can’t change the course of history, can’t overthrow the “system”, can’t create an all White, independent new country in the Pacific Northwest, can’t do lots and lots of things, but it doesn’t mean these people can’t get off the Net and do productive activities and win small victories for our people.

    I’ve got some ideas, could others get behind this project?

    What kind of positive activities can we promote for WN Vanguard types?

  5. I don’t think we can declare a victory in Texas against illegal immigration until some of this legislation is signed into law, survives the liberal courts, and goes into effect. Rick Perry could always sell out.

  6. LEW says:
    December 30, 2010 at 12:58 am
    How about join the A3p?

    Whites should stay away from MacDonald. By all means read him, I do and I’ve read his trilogy but I’d stay away from him in terms of practical politics. He’s an individual who should’ve never enter popular politics.

  7. Hunter,

    If you really want to appeal to normal white Americans may I recommend you telling us more about your workouts at the gym? How much weightlifting or cardio do you do? Do you lift heavy or light? Also, any information on your diet, protein intake, etc. would be appreciated.

    Also, white Americans like to give numbers. How much do you bench? Squat? If it’s not a lot, it’s ok. White Americans will respect you as long as you’re giving it your all and improving.

  8. It’s important to know that our race created the greatest civilization in human history, a civilization that organized Jewry and its debt-financed ethnoid group-entitlements are trying to destroy. Greg Johnson’s site helps us attain this knowledge: it is what we are and will be fighting for. This site and others like it provide the day-to-day tactics and strategy that we need to survive, at least unto the point of system collapse, when we can proceed through other means. Meanwhile, this catfight between GJ and HW is getting tiresome. It’s a waste of energy and bandwidth. If Johnson hasn’t got the character to back off, maybe Hunter does. Let’s see.

  9. Greater Depression
    The figure of 15 million unemployed reported by the government and regurgitated by the corporate media is one of the biggest lies in the history of lies. The real figure is 30 million and I will prove it using the government’s own data. I created the chart below from BLS data (ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/suppl/empsit.ceseeb1.txt) to prove that we are in the midst of a Greater Depression and no amount of spin by politicians and the media can wish it away. When we look at jobs in America across the decades, a picture of a country in decline, captured by financial elites, reveals itself. In 1970, America still produced goods, ran trade surpluses, and paid wages that allowed families to thrive with only one parent working. Only 34.6% of the population was employed, with a third of these workers producing goods.

    ….

    Whether it was due to the woman’s movement of the 1970s or due to financial necessity, the percentage of the population employed grew relentlessly until it reached 46.8% in the year 2000. The level of 46.8% meant that when the opportunity to be employed was available, this percentage of Americans wanted a job. Since 2000 the population of the U.S. has grown by 28.9 million people. The labor force between the ages of 18 and 64 has grown by 26.1 million people since 2000. The government insists that millions of Americans have chosen to “leave the workforce” and should not be considered unemployed. This is laughable. Why would people choose to leave the workforce when wages are stagnant, retirement looms, prices relentlessly rise, and they are drowning in debt? The truth is that at least 46.8% of the population wants to be employed. That means that 145.2 million Americans would be working if they had the chance. Only 130.5 million are currently employed. This means that there are really 30 million Americans unemployed versus the 15 million reported by the government and MSM.

    Not only is the country short 30 million jobs, but the type of jobs reveal a country of paper pushers, consultants, temp workers, government drones, waitresses, and clerks. The chart below shows the distribution of jobs through the decades.

    In 1970, jobs in the goods producing industries made up 31.2% of all jobs. Today, they account for 13.8% of all jobs. The apologists will proclaim that corporate America just got phenomenally more efficient and productive. That is another falsehood. In 1970, we were a net exporter, consumer expenditures accounted for 62.4% of GDP, and private investment accounted for 14.7% of GDP. Today, we consistently run $500 billion to $700 billion annual trade deficits, consumer expenditures account for 71% of GDP, and private fixed investment is a pitiful 11.5% of GDP. We’ve degenerated from a productive goods producing society to a consumption based, debt fueled society. This is a classic late stage trait of declining empires. Rome and Britain before us experienced similar declines.

    The most damning facts that can be garnered from the BLS data relate to how we’ve become a nation of bankers, real estate agents, accountants, lawyers, tax specialists, and fast food fry cooks. Manufacturing jobs have dropped from 25% of all jobs in 1970 to less than 9% today. Jobs in the spreadsheet generating, credit default swap creating, subprime mortgage pushing, frivolous lawsuit filing, tax evasion sector of the economy went from 12% in 1970 to 19% today.

    The misinformation and lies will continue. The MSM keeps repeating that jobs are coming back. You don’t hear which jobs. Hysterically, the four fastest growing job categories according to the BLS are:

    1.Administrative and support services
    2.Food services and drinking places
    3.Couriers and messengers
    4.Performing arts and spectator sports

    The well paying goods producing jobs are never coming back. American manufacturing jobs have been shifted overseas for more than two decades by corporate America. Now those jobs have become more sophisticated, like semiconductors, software and even medical and finance. The American middle class is relegated to being McDonalds fry cooks, Wal-Mart greeters, and temp workers. What has happened to the American middle class was not an accident. The wealth of the country has been pillaged by an elite group at the very top of the economic food chain, who were able to reap the rewards of globalization (outsourcing American jobs), manipulate the debt based financial system through synthetic fraud products, and avoid taxes by hiring thousands of lawyers, accountants and tax consultants. When you hear that the rich need lower taxes, corporate taxes are too high and increased productivity is great for America, remember what they have done to the country since 1970. If corporate America and its leaders continue to reap obscene profits while the middle class falls further into the abyss, societal unrest will beckon.
    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-dude-wheres-my-job

  10. LEW and Jack,

    We both know the vanguard will simply ignore any positive suggestions that are made. Yes, they could join the A3P and do any number of positive things, but they won’t do it.

  11. CF wrote:
    “this catfight between GJ and HW is getting tiresome. It’s a waste of energy and bandwidth. If Johnson hasn’t got the character to back off, maybe Hunter does. Let’s see.”

    As they say in Albion-land, “Hear hear!” (or is it “here, here”?).

  12. HW wrote:
    the vanguard…could join the A3P and do any number of positive things, but they won’t do it.

    If that’s the case, doesn’t attacking them mean you yourself are engaging in the same same crime you are accusing them of? (Time wasting, not being serious).

    I think the internet-slang “trolling” is a good addition to English. A lot of it goes on, but it is never useful. Rule #1 of productive discourse: Don’t engage trolls, Rule #2: Don’t be a troll.

  13. Hunter Wallace says:
    December 30, 2010 at 6:43 am
    LEW and Jack,

    We both know the vanguard will simply ignore any positive suggestions that are made. Yes, they could join the A3P and do any number of positive things, but they won’t do it.

    Jack Ryan replies:

    I don’t like to give up on White people. I think the main issue here is that Vanguard people are not going to do anything remotely “Conservative”, anything that involves dressing nicely, being polite, well mannered, co-operating with White people that have steady jobs, solid family and social lives. Think of the crowds at Woodstock – hundreds of thousands > 95% White.

    Yes the 1960s White counter culture was completely hostile to Conservative mainstream White America etc. but they managed to do other things in other ways and didn’t all waste their lives trolling on the internet.

    With our Vanguard people, the key is to come up with

    Activities for them to do.

    These Vanguard people may be very destructive, so we need to find ways for them to destroy bad things, bad people instead of coming in to productive mainstream Conservative Right groups and destroying whatever success we have.

    I’ve got some interesting, alternative lifestyle activity ideas for Vanguardists. I would like to hear from others. Remember, we’re talking about real world activities, not virtual reality fantasies – we have to get these people out doing things, doing something that is either productive for our side or more realistically destructive to some other sides.

    🙂

  14. Hail, I agree the mutual attacks do become redundant and unproductive at some point. There is also a fine line, however, between an unproductive attack and a legitimate criticism. Sometimes it is necessary to draw contrasts between the various approaches to advancing White interests for purposes of persuading people to choose one approach over another. More and more people are becoming racially aware everyday and looking for answers. It is important to make these people aware that there are alternatives to radical WN. This will necessarily entail explaining why radical WN is not the way to go at this time. In turn, this will necessarily involve criticizing the radical approach. Those are not attacks in the unproductive sense but persuasive efforts to encourage newly aware people to do productive things like supporting Numbers USA and immigration restrictionists rather than constantly blowing off steam on the Internet. As HW has clearly shown, the newly racially aware White person is likely to do little but vent if he is seduced by radical WN out of frustration or because he perceives no alternative to the radical approach.

  15. I have an idea for Vanguardists. They need practice practice prctice with social skills – “good and bad people” not-with-standing.

    Go outside of your house – and talk to a person. A grocer, An old lady. A fast food worker. A businessman. Any-one.

    Any-one.

    Strike up conversation.

    DO NOT TALK ABOUT RACE.

    Talk about what that person likes. or is interested in.

    DO NOT TALK ABOUT RACE.

    Find one thing you like about that person.

    1 thing.

    Even if that person is not White – or even a Jew Devil Spawn of Satan. (Hi Jack!)

    DO NOT TALK ABOUT RACE.

    End the encounter with a smile (practice in the mirror, before you leave your house, if you must) or a laugh.

    Think about that person. Even if your “hate” that person, becuase of who or what they are, or represent – think about what he or she said.

  16. Lew wrote:
    Sometimes it is necessary to draw contrasts between the various approaches to advancing White interests

    The best way is to lead by a positive example. Endless squabbling, trolling and counter-trolling, is not a good way.

    Do you see Pat Buchanan going on semi-daily diatribes against “the NSM”? God, no.
    David Duke? No.
    VDare? Never.

    Did the BNP emerge as a major force because they sat around sniping, mocking, and attacking Skinheadism, thus “convincing” millions of British people that the BNP is the right way to go? A truly laughable idea.

    I wish I could wave a magic wand and make HW and Greg Johnson instantly forget who each other are.

  17. @Jack Ryan
    >These Vanguard people may be very destructive, so we need to find ways for them to destroy bad things, bad people instead of coming in to productive mainstream Conservative Right groups and destroying whatever success we have.
    I assume you are joking Jack, but as a suggestion might I suggest they be encouraged to infiltrate the enemy camp?

    I’m sure the All Is Lost mindset and saying and doing whatever you like, without considering the political consequences, would set our enemies back decades. 😉

  18. OK, so here are some of my suggestions for:

    Fun and productive activities for Vanguard types

    1) Dress up like Muslims and cause trouble, incite anti Muslim, anti Immigrant White backlash.

    Lots of Vanguard types enjoy dressing up in Nazi costumes and parading around in public to shock mainstream White Americans and incite violent backlashes by non Whites. They do it for kicks, but it doesn’t have any positive benefit for our people except to make Vanguard types look like kooks and WN look weak an stupid.

    So instead of dressing up to look like NAZIs, these same Vanguard folks can get dressed up to look like:

    Hateful Muslim extremist immigrants!

    Imagine the fun and excitement that can be had if say 20 Vanguard types didn’t shave for a month, use hair dyes and skin darkening make-up mud to look like hairy, scary, racially alien looking Paki Muslim extremist immigrants!
    These Muslim extremists can hang outside of:

    White Baptist churches in Tennessee and boldly announce that:

    “the Baptist Christian religion is a FALSE RELIGION and ISLAM is the last, one true religion, Christian pastors are mostly homosexuals and young (White) Christian women should “submit” to Islam and become the 3rd or 4th wife of some dark, hairy, Paki Muslim immigrant.”

    These Vanguard Muslims can also spread powerful anti Jewish propaganda about the Jews controlling Hollywood, the media, US foreign policy etc. and the only solution to the terrible corrupt Jew powers is to embrace Islam as the (White) Christian world is to weak, corrupt, homosexual to do anything about Zionism/Porn/Neo Conservatism/Usury etc.

    Here would be a clear win, win situation for our side – the regular mainstream Whites can choose either to:

    1) React with 100% RACIST hatred for non White Muslim immigrants in their communities.

    2) Accept some/a lot of the propaganda about Jewish power

    Most White Americans will believe just about anything including the neo Con war propaganda about the Axis of Evil, Weapons of Mass Destruction etc. So most Whites will believe our Vanguard folks really are hostile NW Muslims.

    The key is for our guys to really get in to the whole act -change names to things like “Osama Mohammed”, study those speeches by that horrible Paki cleric in England. Our Vanguard New Muslims can form committees to end the public celebration of Christmas, press for Sharia law, complete with taxes on non Muslims – they whole propaganda should feature mass Muslim immigration as COMING SOON TO THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD AND THERE’S NOTHING THESE WHITE FOLKS CAN DO ABOUT IT!

    Please note that American anti British revolutionary Vanguard types used to dress up as Indians in their Tea Party protests, so dressing up like Muslims would be in keeping with this fine American tradition.

    Also, Vanguard folks can have lots and lots of fun dressing up like Muslims and harassing, scaring gay/homosexual White people/liberals.

    And when the Vanguard folks are caught, they can always claim in all honesty that they did it because they were alienated from mainstream (White) society and were looking for something different, with more structure, stricter morals etc. (they would be telling the truth).

    How’s that for a fun suggestion for Vanguard types?

  19. Jack,

    As I said above, it would be nice if the vanguard would do positive, constructive things that advance our cause instead of holding us back, but we both know they are going to do nothing but fantasize all day, gripe on the internet, and ask for money.

  20. Jack,

    As I said above, it would be nice if the vanguard would do positive, constructive things that advance our cause instead of holding us back, but we both know they are going to do nothing but fantasize all day, gripe on the internet, and ask for money.

    Jack Ryan replies:

    Understand. But my suggest is for (Some) Vanguard folks to do negative, destructive actions that cause harm to the mult-cultural program. If Vanguard folks look and act like NW destructive Muslims, that’s going to make NW Muslim immigration, NW immigration look bad. There really is no way to make ugly, hairy, hateful NW Muslims look nice, happy, helpful, something that is going to improve the lives of any White Americans from Left to Right.

    Now, I hear you saying these Vanguard types are completely worthless, too lazy to do anything in real life, even anything negative and destructive. That might be true for many, but look at the Vanguard types who do get out there and dress up like Nazis and look and act stupid. These folks are actually doing something…. doing really stupid, counter productive real world activism, but at least they are getting out of the house.

    Our goal should be to find ways to get these folks out of the house and doing similar activities that work for our side.

    How about the “Dress up like Muslims” idea?

  21. Whites trying to pass as Sand People will be spotted immediately, and that will reflect badly on us, just like Blacks who are caught faking “hAtE CriMes” cause us to be suspicious of any claims of White attacks on Blacks.

  22. Jack Ryan, I like your positive thinking, as expressed in your first comment on this thread. Rather than flail and skewer “vanguardists” … work with them!

  23. Hunter claims members of his disordered category of “Vanguard” won’t be sensible enough to join A3P or work in the “real world” via NumbersUSA.

    Hunter is just refilling his disordered category with more mindless rubbish!

    Most of the people I know who are in his “Vanguard” category are A3P members. Some of them are even among the leadership.

    Who are you trying to kid Hunter? Should we believe you or our own “lyin’ eyes”?

  24. Discard says:
    December 30, 2010 at 8:59 pm
    Whites trying to pass as Sand People will be spotted immediately, and that will reflect badly on us, just like Blacks who are caught faking “hAtE CriMes” cause us to be suspicious of any claims of White attacks on Blacks.

    I disagree. As long as you work hard to be really hairy, really mean, ugly, hateful – and wear Jihad style clothes, our Vanguard types can pass for Muslims, at least as well as jews pass for White. This would be taking a page out of the enemy’s playbook, acting as other people. Jews do this all the time for great success.

  25. (1) When the DREAM Act fight was going on, Counter-Currents was focused on dog sledding across Antarctica.

    If there was some kind of big push against the DREAM Act going on among the vanguard, I certainly didn’t see it, and I follow their websites closely.

    (2) Feel free to shock me. I haven’t noticed any huge push for the A3P going on among the vanguard either. I have seen a lot of attacks on Kevin MacDonald though.

    (3) Well, I believe my own “lyin’ eyes.”

    It was the “worthless conservatives,” the people who you claim “still can’t win,” who stopped the DREAM Act, not the vanguard. I know that Greg Johnson has repeatedly attacked the “system politicians” who killed the DREAM Act.

    I know that Free Republic, Hot Air, ALIPAC, NumbersUSA, and Michael Savage hammered away at the issue and the Tea Party primary challenges were the major factor in forcing McCain, Graham, and Hatch to vote against the bill.

    (4) We had multiple threads about the DREAM Act here on Occidental Dissent. You people came over here to repeatedly argue in favor of “rejecting the system” and “worse is better” and to attack the Republicans and conservatives who opposed the DREAM Act.

    (5) I’ve drawn the conclusion that you people are worthless.

    (6) Immigration was the reason I got involved in the White Nationalist movement in the first place.

    What is the difference between the pro-amnesty progressives and the vanguard who advocate losing as an ideology to make life worse off for White people?

    (7) I know that there are millions of conservatives who I can work with on the issues that I care about. I also know that the vanguard is doing nothing about these issues and in fact identifies with our enemies.

  26. JR: There’s more to appearing to be a Sand Person than a tan and a Khafia. Your speech, for one. No regional American accent will pass for Middle Eastern. And how do you turn a White nose into an Arab schnozz? You’d need a body and fender expert. You will be spotted immediately as a fake, people will just know that something is wrong. And if you claim to be a native-born White American Moslem, you’ll be seen as a clown, not a threat. Nope, bad idea altogether.
    Jews can sometimes pass for White because they’ve lived among us for centuries. We just can’t use all of their tactics.

  27. >s long as you work hard to be really hairy, really mean, ugly, hateful – and wear Jihad style clothes,

    lol

    Another idea is to join anti-White organizations like the ADL and say you are very concerned about White Supremacism. Then start demoralizing them into inaction with AIL (All Is Lost) propaganda and say racist things about Gentiles to embarrass the organization.

    I’m sure they are already doing it to us, so why not do the same back? You never know guys, it might be fun and it could help White people.

  28. Discard says:
    December 30, 2010 at 11:10 pm
    JR: There’s more to appearing to be a Sand Person than a tan and a Khafia. Your speech, for one. No regional American accent will pass for Middle Eastern. And how do you turn a White nose into an Arab schnozz? You’d need a body and fender expert. You will be spotted immediately as a fake, people will just know that something is wrong. And if you claim to be a native-born White American Moslem, you’ll be seen as a clown, not a threat. Nope, bad idea altogether.
    Jews can sometimes pass for White because they’ve lived among us for centuries. We just can’t use all of their tactics.

    Jack Ryan replies:

    Sure, some smart White folks will figure out the act. But most White Americans aren’t smart – they believe Neo Con Jew lies, hell – a large percentage of White Americans think WWF fake wrestling is real. So if you look and act the part, yeah – the Red nation will believe that real, nasty Islamic extremists are coming to their town and when you understand immigration policies – real Muslims will be coming.

    And so what if you come off as a deranged anti White White guy embracing the most anti White, anti Western cult out there. Idiot mixed up Whites join all kinds of non White, anti White cults, groups – like wearing dred locks and acting “Rasta” or being a wigger. This anti White Christian Muslim fad is sure to catch on – so go with it. The object is to provoke a strong White racist reaction – make White Christians stop being such pacifist, non racist, third world welcoming idiots.

    And believe me – there’s nothing like ugly, nasty, hateful Muslims to provoke the White backlash – look at England or all European countries.

    Again, we’re looking for fun activities for Vanguard types to do – these are Vanguard types who simply can’t do the safe, nice, Conservative, White thing – so, let’s give em something very different to do.

  29. Here’s an example of a White America guy who really did the whole anti American, Taliban – Jihadist thing – John Wlaker Lihd.

    John was a mixed up, sone of idiot liberal parents outside of San Francisco and his parents had him reading all kinds of rad lit, like the auto biobiography of Malcolm X. The kid goes for all kinds of Leftist politics, then decides to study Islam and he ends up in Afghanistan in the Taliban! US troops captured this idiot and then the MSM tried to explain him and his idiot parents tried to defend him/them as being something other than complete idiots.

    🙂

    Anywhere, regular White Americans in Red states detested him as the ultimate traitor so if enough of our Vanguard types do the John Walker Lihd Jihadist thing, it’s sure to provoke a very strong White Racist backlash against NW Muslims, NW immigrants, which is what we want. Check out the photo of Johnny Jihadist boy – he looks dirty, hairy, looks Muslim.

  30. Strange religion where looking like an unkempt homeless derelict is considered “civilized” and being clean shaven isn’t?

  31. Nightowl says:
    December 31, 2010 at 12:40 am
    Strange religion where looking like an unkempt homeless derelict is considered “civilized” and being clean shaven isn’t?

    Jack Ryan replies:

    I heard this White Southern American comedian making Muslim jokes on this subject.

    He says:

    “You know he’s a Muslim if…

    he wipes his ass with the back of his hand, but considers bacon unclean.

    “You know he’s a Muslim if…

    His main economic activity is raising opium/heroin, but he consider drinking a beer immoral.

    “You know he’s a Muslim if…

    He owns a $3,000 rocket launcher, a $2,000 machine gun, but doesn’t have enough money to buy shoes.

  32. JR: White Americans are not retarded. About 50 years ago, a northern liberal darkened his skin and went south to see how Blacks lived. He then wrote a book about it, titled “Black Like Me”. Of course he fooled nobody, and people were especially rude to him for being a flagrant lying jackass, though he claimed that his ill treatment was just the way that Whites ordinarily treated Blacks down south.
    It’s not even necessarily a matter of intelligence. If you think the masses are ignorant puppets of the NeoCon, look at what the well-educated believe: Multi-culturalism. No, your pseudo-SandMan will reveal himself to anyone with an ounce of human instinct.

  33. I am not trying to cause division but I have a serious question for all of you “mainstreamers.” What is your ultimate goal? If it is a majority white America then your efforts are futile. Even if all immigration, legal and illegal, is stopped, whites will still eventually become a minority in this country due to birth rates alone. When this happens — which is a demographic certainty absent some shocking change of course — you will be unable to accomplish anything politically.

    Don’t get me wrong. I support your efforts, both morally and financially. But, mainstream politics is only a worthwhile pursuit in the sense that it is a good recruiting tool. Nothing of significance can ever be expected to be accomplished. In fact, the only laws that could be passed that could save this country would be thrown out by the Courts because they would violate the Constitution – an outdated piece of paper setting down laws for an agrarian society that no longer exists. These laws being proposed in Texas will accomplish nothing but make life minimally more difficult for illegal immigrants, causing a small percentage to just move to another state.

  34. Larry,

    (1) I wasted the last ten years interacting with legions of alienated rhetorical radicals in the White Nationalist movement who failed to accomplish a single identifiable thing for White people in that entire time period.

    (2) I intend to spend the next ten years working with people to move the goal posts on immigration and other important public policy issues that I care about.

    (3) I’m sick and tired of interacting with people who talk only about “ultimate goals” and wildly unrealistic fantasy scenarios and who have nothing in the way of a practical road map for achieving those goals.

    (4) I would like to see a White ethnostate. That would certainly be nice. I am not going to sit here and devalue reality though on the basis of my own personal wishful thinking.

    We are a long way from anything resembling a White ethnostate. Anyone who seriously desires to bring about such a scenario has to come to terms with the fact that we have to start where White people are today and gradually move them in a more radical direction.

    (5) If all immigration, legal and illegal, were brought to a halt two years from now, then we would be much closer to our goal of a White ethnostate, and would have a lot more breathing room to reverse our precipitous decline than we would otherwise.

    (6) Realistically, we have to win the immediate battles over legal and illegal immigration before we can address the much thornier question of the racial basis of U.S. citizenship.

    (7) It is not necessarily true that demographics is destiny. The same argument was made in the nineteenth century about the much higher black birthrate in the American South. By the 1960s, the American South was whiter than at any previous point in history.

    (8) It is highly significant that Arizona has succeeded in driving hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens out of that state. That alone demonstrates that copycat laws in other states could be similarly successful.

    (9) I will note that our avowed enemies never have these debates about the importance of participating in the political process. To my knowledge, this sort of retardation and myopia is exclusive to the White Nationalist movement.

    (10) Whites are far more numerous than blacks and Hispanics.

    (11) We have a favorable majority to work with on the Supreme Court.

    (12) The U.S. Constitution is an invaluable document that has preserved our rights to free speech and to own firearms. I would much prefer to have that outdated piece of paper than to live in an anti-White totalitarian society like Germany or Canada.

    (13) The laws being proposed in Texas will drive out a huge number of illegal aliens from that state who will be unable to find employment or send their children to public schools.

    (14) Can you tell me what the vanguardists are doing for White people? Probably not because we both know the answer is … drumroll … nothing.

  35. “(14) Can you tell me what the vanguardists are doing for White people?”

    They’re naming the Jew on obscure blogs. Isn’t that enough?

  36. Anti-White Larry decoded:

    >I am not trying to cause division but I have a serious question for all of you “mainstreamers.”

    Division? More like demoralization as we shall soon see.

    >your efforts are futile.

    AIL = All Is Lost

    >whites will still eventually become a minority

    AIL

    > you will be unable to accomplish anything politically.

    AIL

    >But, mainstream politics is only a worthwhile pursuit in the sense that it is a good recruiting tool.

    Do not enter politics and recruit in large numbers.

    >Nothing of significance can ever be expected to be accomplished.

    AIL

    >Constitution – an outdated piece of paper setting down laws for an agrarian society that no longer exists.

    Tear up the constitution. A document the vast majority of Whites believe in, and correctly interpreted is Pro White.

    >These laws being proposed in Texas will accomplish nothing

    AIL

    Thanks for your “help” Larry.

  37. Hail wrote:

    Do you see Pat Buchanan going on semi-daily diatribes against “the NSM”? God, no.
    David Duke? No.
    VDare? Never.

    The radicals have been going on redundant diatribes against the non-radicals for decades. William Pierce started it 40 years ago, and the owner of the Vanguard News Network raised redundant diatribes against non-radicals like Buchanan, Taylor, Brimelow and Francis to an art form. Most of the polemical verbiage in radical WN circles is aimed at conservatives and mainstreamers like Brimelow and Taylor.

    Why should HW criticize radicals less often than they criticize the conservatives and mainstreamers?

    Or do only the radicals have the right to attack frequently?

    If I could wave a wand, I would have HW and GJ drop the personal crap but otherwise continue the argument. The argument is going to continue anyway and should continue.

  38. Larry says:
    “Don’t get me wrong. I support your efforts, both morally and financially. But, mainstream politics is only a worthwhile pursuit in the sense that it is a good recruiting tool”

    Jack Ryan replies:

    We’re not just advocating “mainstream politics”. We advocating living a mainstream life – having WN drop back “in” to mainstream White society, do the regular things that mainstream Whites do – school, work, play, religion, dating, marriage, family.

    Politics is just one part of a mainstream White life. The biggest problem with Vanguards now is that the practical result of Vanguards becoming racially aware and getting others to become racial aware is that they then

    drop out of mainstream White society.

    This is the main reason that mainstream White parents don’t want their children exposed to White Nationalism – the sense (correctly) that this cult is a drop out cult and once their children get in to WN cult, they’ll drop out of school, give up aspirations for getting a decent job, they won’t be able to function in regular social settings without getting in to violent racial political arguments, the fear is that these WN will “change” for the worse.

  39. Thanks for the responses to my question. (Except for “Dingo Bob” who thinks it is “anti-white” to face reality.) Mr. Wallace, I think all of your points are valid. Although I disagree with your implication that we should not have an “ultimate goal” to work towards. There must be a final destination in mind if we expect to get there. This is one of my main problems with both the “mainstream” and “vanguardist” camps. No one seems to be able to articulate exactly what WNs hope to accomplish and be able to propose concrete steps to get there. Rather, people seem content to just lash out at the latest outrage proposed by the multiculturalist left. If our ultimate goal is a white ethnostate, then immigration reduction is certainly a part of that equation, but we need to also look at other avenues, such as secessionist movements in white majority areas.

    By the way, I am not a vanguardist. I consider myself to be mostly in the mainstream camp. But, I can’t help to sometimes realize the futility of the current political process in this country and I admire the fact that the vanguardist are actually talking about things like culture, tradition, and race in a deep way that will build lasting foundations. I also don’t understand the need to constantly disparage the vanguardists. If anything, their existence benefits mainstreamers because mainstreamers can point to them and say, “We’re not extreme; they’re extreme.” Compared to David Duke, Pat Buchanan looks rational. Compared to Pat Buchanan, Tom Tancredo looks rational, etc. Vanguardists push the envelope to the right, which is always a good thing.

  40. Larry,

    (1) The “ultimate goal” is the White ethnostate.

    (2) The problem is that White Nationalists talk about nothing but ultimate goals and end games – this is living in a fantasy world – without addressing the far more serious and pressing problem of how to achieve any of their goals in the real world.

    (3) White Nationalists are addicted to a form of rhetorical radicalism where nothing short of instant, sweeping, transformative change is acceptable. This is a prescription for stagnation, defeat, and irrelevancy. In the real world, you can’t just snap your fingers and have a White ethnostate overnight.

    (4) If you are serious about promoting secession, then there is ample room in the mainstream to move that idea forward. Several states have already passed sovereignty resolutions and asserting their power to nullify federal laws.

    (5) The fact is, there are far more Whites in America than Jews, Hispanics, or blacks, but White Nationalists are the ones who say the political process is futile, even though Whites are the vast majority of the electorate. It makes no sense.

    (6) There is nothing wrong with the political process. The problem is that there are no White Nationalists who even bother to try to run a competent campaign for statewide elected office.

    The problem is entirely on the White Nationalist end. Hispanic radicals like Luis Gutierrez have no problem getting elected to Congress in favorable districts. The same is true of black radicals like Maxine Waters.

    (7) The vanguardists haven’t built a foundation for anything on the cultural front. What they have done though is create a thriving subculture for alienated people that destroys their ability to communicate with their peers and get anything useful accomplished in the real world.

    (8) Vanguardists are not political players. It is not like comparing, say, moderates to conservatives in Congress or liberal centrists to progressives. They reject the political process altogether and attempt to take as many White people out of the game as possible.

    (9) In doing this, they only succeed in digging us into a deeper hole and empowering our enemies. Having rejected the system, the hated system continues to exist, and resulting lack of opposition to that system reinforces our marginalization and the perception among sympathetic Whites that White Nationalists have no solution to their problems.

  41. Jack Ryan posted:

    “I think we need a post on some positive suggestions for things for ‘Vanguard’ folks to do.”

    LEW posted:

    “How about join the A3P?”

    Hunter Wallace posted:

    “LEW and Jack,
    We both know the vanguard will simply ignore any positive suggestions that are made. Yes, they could join the A3P and do any number of positive things, but they won’t do it.”

    FB posted:

    “Whites should stay away from MacDonald. By all means read him, I do and I’ve read his trilogy but I’d stay away from him in terms of practical politics. He’s an individual who should’ve never enter popular politics.”

    How about something that has never been tried before? The Mainstream and Vanguard White Nationalists working together instead of sniping at each other? In a boxing arena, you use both fists to fight. Hunter, you don’t pull your left hand to the small of your back and punch with only your right fist. THAT is precisely what Mainstream WNs are suggesting! The only difference between them and the Vanguard WN is that HE wants pull the right hand to the small of his back and punch only with his left fist. And Whites wonder why the adversary is beating the snot out of us!

    Hunter is right to suggest that Mainstream WNs infiltrate the Republican Party, but this condescending dismissive suggestion to the Vanguard to further marginalize and make themselves irrelevant by joining some brand new third party like A3P is not helpful to our cause.

    I agree with FB. The A3p is not practical for Vanguards. Especially since there is a vehicle whose wheel some enterprising Vanguards could snatch and that is the Democrat Party, which is turning into a de facto socialist party, anyway. Many Vanguards admire Hitler. Well, Hitler was a leftist. He strongly supported socialist programs but only on a national level. It was Communism AKA global socialism under one New World Order that he opposed.

    http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hitler-leftist/

    http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hitler-leftist/id9.html

    The Democrats would be far easier for Vanguards to infiltrate than it would be for Mainstreamers to infiltrate the Republican Party, which is paranoid about being accused of racism. Or how else can you explain former KKK leader, Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia’s staying power in the Democrat Party? He should have been purged long ago after LBJ enacted his pandering to Negroes under his Great Society measures. Democrat Party operatives make major racial gaffes all the time and get away with it, thanks to a partisan press. A couple of “when I was young and dumb, I was young and dumb” apologies were enough to buy him a free pass. Republicans have been burnt at the stake, even after endless groveling, for blurting out much milder, easily construed, but uncomfortable truths. I strongly suggest that Vanguard White Nationalist, especially one without a paper trail or obvious links to the KKK or Neo Nazis or Skinheads join the Democrat Party and work his way up.

    BOTH fists, Greg. BOTH fists, Hunter. Otherwise fuggitaboutit.

  42. Clytemnestra: Hunter is right to suggest that Mainstream WNs infiltrate the Republican Party, but this condescending dismissive suggestion to the Vanguard to further marginalize and make themselves irrelevant by joining some brand new third party like A3P is not helpful to our cause.

    I certainly didn’t intend any condescension when I suggested the Vanguards join the A3P. I meant as a helpful suggestion.

    It seems to me that an explicitly White organization like the A3P might be a good fit for Vanguards who want to make a contribution to building up an explicit organization without “shutting up and blending in” with Republicans or Democrats.

    Working to subvert the Democrat party in the manner you suggested is a great idea for any Vanguard WNs who are willing to “shut up and blend in” for tactical purposes.

  43. LEW, I apologize if I misconstrued your suggestion as anything other than intending to be helpful. I just get this “shut up and go away” vibe from various Mainstream WNists to the Vanguard that I find counterproductive to the White Nationalist cause. I am relatively new to White Nationalism, but I ran into a couple of Vanguards almost two decades. I was another one of those center-right conservative lemmings. They were “so out there,” they scared me off, but they were eerily prescient in predicting what the 21st century would look like for White Americans.

    Before we are too quick to dismiss the Vanguard, it would behoove us to look at how much Anti-White legislation passed under “conservative” Republican terms or with the help of “conservative” White Republicans. Let us not forget that the first Simpson-Mazzoli amnesty building was signed into law by Sir Ronald Wilson Reagan, “uber-conservative.”

    Your suggestion that A3P would be the perfect outlet for Vanguard is probably the best option for those who are too well-known to infiltrate the Democrat Party. It might function as the WNist version of CPUSA. They can put out any needed propaganda and then any Vanguard who have infiltrated the Democrats can implement it.

    White Nationalism must take a two-fisted approach to this fight. If Mainstreamists succeed in shutting down the Vanguard it will be like they tied White Nationalism’s left hand behind its back.

  44. It’s New Year’s Eve, and I am hunkered down with food and spirits – no way will I be out and about in Chicago on New Year’s Eve.

    So here’s my New Year’s eve suggestion #2 for Vanguard WN who just can’t do the Conservative, GOP, mainstream White thing (#1 was to dress up like NW Muslims and cause lots of trouble, provoke White racist backlash)

    Suggestion #2 for WN Vanguardists:

    #2 Change your names to Jewish names and cause extreme trouble, provoke White racist backlash.

    Anyone who has been in WN for awhile and studied the Jewish question, understand that Jews change their names ALL THE TIME to try to fit in, pretend to be other types of people to advance their careers, advance their agenda.

    Brooklyn born Jew Lawrence Harvey Zeiger changes his name to “Larry King” and is promoted to great MSM positions as Larry King Live.

    New Jersey Jew Jonathan Stuart Leibowitz – changes his name to Jon Stewart, becomes the comedian, political commentator for Comedy Central – America thinks they are dealing with some British guy of the “House of Stewart” instead of some typical, obnoxious New Jersey Jew named Leibowitz.

    In politics, revolutionary socialist parties – lots and lots of Jews trying to change, fit in – present themselves as something other than being Jewish and screwing over non Jews:

    Karl Marx…. “sounds German, so I guess it must be OK for him to be leading German Workers for a better life.

    And Leon Trotsky – sure, this guy sounds “Russian” so why shouldn’t he be the leader of a Russian Revolutionary Workers army? Well Leon Trotsky wasn’t born with this name he was born:

    Lev Davidovich Bronstein

    This name sound like some Jewish Marxist intellectual that has nothing in common with Russian workers, peasants or just any White Russian people.

    Well, you get the point.

    Jews change their names all the time to change their image, try to fit in, presents themselves as something different than just being – well Jews.

    WN Vanguardist can do the same… change their names to Jewish names and then go wild.

    Imagine all the fun and trouble some WN Vanguardist can do when he changes his name to say….

    Joshua Goldberg

    Josh Goldberg can rent a PO box in Hollywood CA then produce web pages, blogs, twitter promoting his new movie:

    Mohammed was Gay

    This movie, play, book, magazine would present the idea that the Muslim prophet Mohammed was in reality a flaming queer homosexual, something similar to Oliver Stone’s movie presenting Alexander the Great as a flaming homo.

    Now how do you think the world’s 1 billion Muslims will react to the news that some guy named “Joshua Goldberg” is producing a movie defaming the Muslim prophet Mohammed as a flaming queer homosexual? Hollywood CA might just disappear from planet earth, which would be a real shame from a White nationalist perspective.

    🙂

    And these new Joshua Goldbergs, Adam Cohens, David Adelbaums can set up “human rights commissions” in small Southern American towns and send out notices that all public references to Christmas must be stopped and all children must receive mandatory homosexual sensitivity training, Holocaust studies, anti Racism programs and also all guns must be registered, confiscated Country and Western music festivals need to be curtailed to promote “World Music”, hip hop rap music that breaks down the Eurocentric culture of oppression.

    Again, Vanguard folks would just be taking a page out of the Jew playbook and using a very effective Jew program –

    the name change.

    And the main purpose of this activity is that it would give WN Vanguardists…

    Something to do.

    So WN Vanguardists can’t do the straight, White Conservative, honest GOP program – fine. They are completely alienated from society and want to break out, cause trouble, destroy things.

    Fine.

    Let these WN Vanguard types cause extreme trouble, disruptions, only do so with…

    Jewish names.

    🙂

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