Going Mainstream

How do you respond to the American flag?

Birmingham, AL

There has been a lot of discussion on this website about “going mainstream.” Lately, Jack Ryan has been trying to articulate this idea. This has generated tremendous confusion in the comments. The sniping and negativity that has been on constant display has deterred even me from posting from here.

I had planned to write about the “One Nation” rally this morning. That can wait until tomorrow. It is clear now from reading the comments that a more detailed explanation is warranted. We haven’t been succeeding in communicating our message.

I’m the one who has changed.

In recent months, I have become more critical of White Nationalism. I have grown more realistic and pragmatic. This is a natural progression of the activist direction I had long been heading in.

Look at it this way: when you move to Virginia and invest considerable time and resources in advancing White Nationalism, you become much more committed and serious than you were before. Your perspective changes.

Critique of White Nationalism

The problems that are holding the White Nationalist movement back are easy to identify:

1.) White Nationalists are powerless. They are powerless mainly because they are hopelessly disorganized. This disorganization stems primarily from the social ostracism and employment discrimination, not to mention the government persecution, that has driven the movement underground.

2.) Lacking power and a real world outlet for their energies, White Nationalists retreat to the internet, where cyberspace becomes less of a tool for communication than an escape outlet for blowing off steam.

3.) This escapism takes on various forms. Intellectuals retreat into the comfort zone of their libraries. Some White Nationalists retreat into the past. Some visit these websites to entertain themselves and pass the time.

4.) The internet magnifies the natural tendency of intellectuals and radicals to become disconnected from reality. This leads to the creation of elaborate fantasy ideologies and erratic behavior which is objectively harmful to promoting White Nationalism to a mainstream audience.

5.) The White Nationalist media is a microcosm of the larger trend of market segmentation going on across the internet. When radicals only talk to other radicals in cyberspace ghettoes, their alienation from America is magnified, and they create a new social identity around markers designed to separate and wall themselves off from ordinary people.

6.) Like all fringe political movements, White Nationalism attracts a disproportionate number of kooks, sociopaths, and radical individualists. The movement lacks institutions with the necessary legitimacy to marginalize these destructive personality types.

7.) Taken together, all the factors listed above combine to create the most damaging and serious problem of all facing the White Nationalist movement, which is the tragic loss of political realism and an unwillingness to start where people are today and communicate with a more moderate audience in terms of their own experience.

This isn’t the critique of a hostile outsider. It comes from a friendly veteran who wants the White Nationalist movement to succeed, who has spent many hours thinking through these issues, and who is actively searching for ways to overcome these obstacles.

Going Mainstream

Looking at the White Nationalist movement, I only see two real paths to power: organization or subversion.

The Virginia experience convinced me that White Nationalists are unwilling to organize. The only people who will organize under a White Nationalist banner are the hardcore dedicated minority, whose numbers aren’t sufficient to threaten the status quo, and the fantasists who use the street as a stage to act out their own individual psychodramas.

That leaves subversion.

As saboteurs, White Nationalists can organize and influence the mainstream. With a real world outlet for their energies, White Nationalists will start communicating with ordinary people and restore their sense of political realism. Successful accomplishments in the mainstream will build confidence, shift the political spectrum in our direction, and curtail high turnover through disillusionment.

What’s more, a subversive agenda will only appeal to certain types of White Nationalists. The kooks, sociopaths, and fantasists don’t have the patience or ability to interact with their contemporaries. The bookworms are unable to take their heads out of the clouds. The time-wasters won’t find themselves entertained by interacting with ordinary people.

Reality imposes these conditions on us anyway.

The only way we can establish the legitimacy necessary to lead the White masses is to work within the mainstream. Only in the mainstream are Whites found in sufficient numbers to create a White ethnostate. If we have any hope to persuade our peers to become White Nationalists, we have to communicate with them in terms of their own experience, which is the cultural and political mainstream, not the radical fringe.

American communists have provided us with a workable model. Over the last fifty years, American communists have accomplished much of their radical agenda through diluting their message and subverting mainstream liberalism and conservatism. Communists once faced all the obstacles that White Nationalists face today, in particular, the social ostracism and employment discrimination that has driven the movement underground.

We would be wise to study their methods.

Mainstreaming Occidental Dissent

It was never my intention to “mainstream” this website. My own views had changed. It never occurred to me to demand that everyone here adopt my own point of view. And besides, Occidental Dissent is already known as a White Nationalist website, so any attempt to “mainstream” the discourse here would be doomed to failure anyway.

I have gone mainstream. If you want to go mainstream, that is your choice, but I won’t force anyone here to follow my advice, or accept my critique of the White Nationalist movement. You will only be exposed to my point of view.

Isn’t that fair?

Barriers to Communication

In light of all the above, I have been banging away at the theme for weeks now that White Nationalists are creating “unnecessary barriers” between themselves and their target audience. These barriers stem mostly from their own radical alienation from White America. This is why I have repeatedly said that White Nationalists are often their own worst enemy.

What are these barriers?

1.) American Patriotism – This is probably the biggest one. In their alienation from the United States, many White Nationalists (myself included) have entertained the notion of destroying America and replacing it with some new political entity.

This is a mistake.

It creates an “unnecessary barrier” between White Nationalists and a broader constituency of American nationalists. Underneath the rhetoric, we share the same fundamental goal: we want to preserve and restore at least a slice of the Old America; we don’t want America to be “transformed” in the way that progressives desire, least of all into a Third World Babylon.

Now, I look back at my old posts attacking the American flag and just shake my head. Is it really the Stars and Stripes fault, a piece of cloth, that America is in terminal racial decline? Is it the fault of the men who died in the Revolution or the War of 1812 that I have come to admire?

I’m on the side of the people who are trying to hold back the tide. I identify with the White majority. If that were not the case, I certainly wouldn’t be wasting my time here.

2.) Christianity – What sense does it make to attack Christianity when the vast majority of White Americans are Christians? As a tactic, it is a stupid mistake. As a strategy, it is ridiculous. Are White Nationalists going to create a White ethnostate out of the 1% of atheists who are racialists? That’s highly unlikely.

More to the point, Christianity isn’t responsible for the present racial catastrophe, at least not directly. The very word “racism” didn’t exist until the early twentieth century. This idea that Christianity has always been anti-racist is absurd. What did Augustine, Luther, or Aquinas have to say about racism?

A plausible argument can be made that radical egalitarianism “hatched” out of Christianity. You can argue, persuasively, that heretics like the Quakers, Unitarians, and Secular Humanists have twisted Christianity to advance their own ends. That said, Christianity wasn’t a driving force in the demise of the Jim Crow South. The Southern Baptist Convention didn’t condemn “racism” until the 1990s.

The churches have been hijacked by anti-racists. That might be more remarkable if every other institution in American society, namely, Congress and secular universities, had not been similarly hijacked by our racial and cultural enemies, and then at a much earlier date.

These facile attacks on Christianity need to stop. It is a clear case of misdirected rage. Instead, the Christians who are racialists should be encouraged to take back their churches.

3.) Conservatism – Every White Nationalist “rhetorical radical” earns his stripes with attacks on conservatives. This is another mistake on our part. Over 50% of White Americans are conservatives. Who is supposed to be converted to our point of view? The vast majority of Whites who are opposed to illegal immigration are “conservatives.”

What sense does it make to set up an “us vs. them” dynamic between ourselves and our target audience?

A plausible argument can be made that “conservatives” haven’t conserved much. You can argue, persuasively, that “conservatism” is controlled by an alien elite (i.e., the neocons) that has derailed the movement into a false opposition.

We’re not trying to persuade Jonah Goldberg or David Brooks of anything though. Our target audience are the millions of ordinary White conservatives in Red America whose only real flaw is ignorance.

Is it really their fault that they don’t know the score on race and Jews? Every conceivable barrier possible has been erected between them and this knowledge. Most White Nationalists weren’t born with this knowledge either.

Have some patience with and sympathy for people who are not as radical as you are.

4.) Subrace/Ethnicity – The ethnic and subracial infighting that plagues White Nationalist websites is a major turn off. What sense does it make to polarize Whites at this critical juncture in history?

Personally, I happen to think these issues are important, but my attitude is that now just isn’t the appropriate time to discuss them. With millions of Asians, Mestizos, and Africans flooding into America, I am not all that concerned about the 1/4th Italians. We can discuss that within the context of a victorious White ethnostate.

The subracial issue is a distraction from the immediate goal of stopping non-White immigration. Let me emphasize that I do not by any means want to transform Britain or France into Whitemanistan. I am concerned exclusively with my own country right now.

I am not at all hostile to reasonable Nordicism. By that I mean a positive attitude toward people of Northern European ancestry. I mean celebrating Northern European culture and accomplishments.

I think the Nordicists would be best served by pursuing and impregnating Nordic women and creating more Nordic babies, not by arguing with anonymous people on the internet. That’s the difference between effective and ineffective Nordicism.

These subracial antagonists might as well be speaking Klingon. Ordinary White people won’t grasp the subracial issue until they grasp and address the race issue.

Moving on.

5.) The Jews – This is a polarizing issue within the White Nationalist community. There are people who don’t want to talk about the Jews at all. There are others who want to talk about nothing else.

The Jewish Question is the hardest aspect of White Nationalism for ordinary people to grasp. The vast majority of White Americans do not live among Jews. They have little experience in interacting with them.  This calls for a delicate approach, not a full frontal assault.

I think the reasonable course of action is to raise the matter only when appropriate. It was appropriate to raise the Jewish Question in the Rick Sanchez thread. The Jewish Question should never be the centerpiece of our message, but it should still be an important part of it.

6.) Nazism – In their alienation from America, White Nationalists often fall down the rat hole of Neo-Nazism, where they lose their ability to communicate with and influence their contemporaries. Even among radical vanguardists, the costume fantasists are recognized as a problem.

I’m not referring to them. I have in mind the radical intellectuals who openly advocate National Socialism in an American context. This is something that Adolf Hitler himself refused to do on practical grounds. That was before a World War and half a century of propaganda and brainwashing in the public schools and media.

If Adolf Hitler were alive today, even he would point out the insanity of trying to communicate with ordinary Americans with such a message. He would be the first to insist on the necessity of adapting our rhetoric to our target audience.

7.) The Enlightenment – Attacks on the Enlightenment round out the major “barriers to communication” that I have identified. There are plenty of White Nationalists who will openly say things like ” I hate freedom” and advocate jettisoning the republican tradition.

I shouldn’t have to point out how this is a tactical and strategic mistake. What sense does it make to throw up an ideological barrier in addition to all the other ones that now exist? This is why I insist that many White Nationalists are flat out unwilling to communicate with their audience.

The Enlightenment has been hijacked like Christianity. It only takes a moment of reflection to realize this: the Founding Fathers never imagined that the mulatto bastard son of a Kenyan communist would ever sit in the White House. They emphatically rejected “social equality” and went to considerable length to contrast it with “civil equality” and “political equality.”

Thomas Jefferson believed that blacks could enjoy equality in West Africa. They couldn’t enjoy it in America because he didn’t consider them the social equals of White Americans. The Founders racialized American citizenship in the First Congress.

We’re not against republicanism. It is universalism that White Nationalists should reject. Within a White ethnostate, Enlightenment ideals like freedom, equality, and tolerance wouldn’t be problematic. What is White Nationalism but the application of fraternity?

We are trying to liberate Whites. We are not treated equally in this society. Our views are not tolerated. Of course we resent the status quo.

That shouldn’t imply throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Conclusion

I’ve been trying to eliminate these “barriers to communication” in my own rhetoric. I would recommend that other pro-Whites do the same. Insofar as I plan to continue writing here, the discourse of this website will come to reflect that, which explains the recent “mainstream” tone, but that is reallly all there is to the idea of “going mainstream.”

I do not expect everyone to follow my example. I hope you now have a better understanding of where I am coming from. Now that we understand each other, I would like to think we can get back to working toward realizing our mutual goal, the creation of a White ethnostate in North America.

About Hunter Wallace 9509 Articles
Founder and Editor-in-Chief of Occidental Dissent

39 Comments

  1. Andrew Yeoman;

    I had to consult “wackypedia” for a description and definition of “National-Anarchism” and according to it, “National Anarchists are ethnopluralists”. One aspect of this view seems like utter nonsense to me;
    “Ethnopluralists use the concept of cultural differentialism to assert a “right to difference” and argue for regional policies of ethnic separatism and racial separatism, but stress that each ethnic and racial group should be considered equal on its own merit”
    – So in other words, this “movement” embodies its own form of egalitarianism (“each ethnic and racial group should be considered equal”…) and egalitarianism in any form is a toxic concept as well as ruinous to our people, and is at odds with reality. This “movement” will have as little success in the real world as did the Shaker movement, the Oneidas, or any of dozens of other quirky cults.

  2. Oldtimer,

    You can be forgiven for considering wikipedia an authoritative source of information on controversial topics. However I have no need to assert my race is better than others merely being different is enough. The same arguments were used by the “European only” policy makers of the American Immigration of 1924. National Anarchism however is not egalitarian, if it were, it would merely be liberalism by another name, which it is not.

    Thanks for your consideration,
    Andrew

  3. Obvious problems with organization in meat space include the mainstream persecution the organization would face and the scarcity of local contributors. The greatest barrier for me is the risk of losing my job. That being said, it seems there are also upsides to these realities. What, for example, do you expect the popular reaction would be to a billboard in a major city that said simply:

    Average White IQ: 100
    Average Black IQ: 85

    Or to posters, flyers, and pamphlets with an honest, authoritative voice distributed liberally throughout a city? That we are dispersed across our nation could serve as an advantage getting the word out, if we act in concert. Mainstream persecution aimed against these acts would be undermined if the target audience were provided only with facts that were verifiable. Imagine the disillusionment of someone that discovers online the work of John Rushton or the statement by the APA confirming racial IQ differences. This was a step in my own awakening, which I am embarassed to say is but several years developed.

    What I’m saying is that if we come to understand the disillusionment process and organize online – with a focus on real world action rather than rhetoric and debate – I feel the current political climate would be suitable to a low-cost campaign focusing on advertisement and the physical distribution of information. I have an IT background and experience with MS SharePoint. Deploying a White Nationalist intranet based on this technology would be ideal for online organization. With security/encryption, a hierarchy of goals used to assign real-world tasks to each member, a method for sharing/reporting results, and a position of response (to media/the public) understood by all members, I expect we could begin to shift the window.

    Thoughts?

  4. Elijah, you have some intriguing ideas. An intranet instead of the internet…hmmmm, or as an adjunct to websites like OD and thereby keeping organizational details and specifics within “the community”. I like the idea. I hope others do too.

  5. @ What, for example, do you expect the popular reaction would be to a billboard in a major city that said simply: “Average White IQ: 100?Average Black IQ: 85” Or to posters, flyers, and pamphlets … distributed liberally throughout a city?… Mainstream persecution aimed against these acts would be undermined if the target audience were provided only with facts that were verifiable…

    Elijah, you definitively have good ideas (Intranet…, etc.). Count with me as soon as I move to a major city.

  6. Roissy has a real interesting post running right now — The United States of Autoimmunity — where he quotes an Asian guy who left a great comment on some HBD Web site somewhere. The comment addresses race dynamics in the American mainstream.

    Elijah: great idea.

  7. @Hunter

    “I will once again reiterate that it was never my intention to “mainstream” this website. Clearly, that is impossible. I was speaking of my real world efforts.”

    Again, I understood this allright, but it is still you they won’t believe if they will be able to link you to OD. Maybe they wont, if you go by another name out there…

  8. Thanks for the comments. The idea would be a secure intranet haven focused on organizing WNs into a cohesive social and professional culture/framework, coordinating real-world actions, and providing a forum for comparing results and offering feedback and reinforcement. SharePoint, as an example, allows user accounts, permission restrictions on content, and a ready-made method for assigning, tracking, and coordinating tasks. Another important technology would be Public Key Infrastructure – which would allow email communication with guaranteed confidentiality, integrity, nonrepudiation, etc.

    It would require people willing to organize and the availability of IT, graphics design, and activism skills. Of course if there is no will it cannot happen, and I’m not in a position to roll it out myself, or overnight. I am deployed now and work 84 weeks so I don’t have the ability to engage in real world stateside operations, but that fortunately gives me time for reflection and study. I have a friend going on leave for several months soon, and he has stateside servers he’s already expressed a willingness to use for the cause. He and I have been coordinating and planning over the last few months and have some potentially novel ideas about organization and direction. Even if the ideas do not pan out we are available and willing to contribute the time we have towards organized, tangible action. Of course, I am only posting this here because of the intelligent and insightful commentary of Mr. Wallace, so I am interested to hear his thoughts on the subject if he is willing to offer them.

  9. Andrew Yeoman;

    Ah yes, poor wikipedia gets no respect. So in an attempt at being fair and more informed, I searched the Net for more information on the term. The name “National Anarchism” seems like an oxymoron,doesn’t it? No offense intended, but the use of an adjective coupled with a noun both of which refer to entities with opposite meanings, is something of an enigma.
    This site http://folkandfaith.com/articles/anarchy.shtml talks about the destruction of “the Capitalist System”, what the National Anarchists plan to do to hasten that process, goes on to say that “The whole concept of Western civilisation has been built upon exploitation and greed,” (and therefore Western Civilization – that is codespeak” for “white peoople’s civilization”, since Western Civ.is our gift to the world) and that ; “once the internationalist system begins to wither away and people start to return to a more natural lifestyle, the factories will stand idle and therefore nobody will be on hand to produce computers, televisions and other luxury items. People will be forced to live without cars and supermarkets, chat shows and telephones, vibrators and central heating. Eventually this will lead to a more leisurely way of life, simply because on average hunter-gatherers work something like two hours a day in order to satisfy their basic needs.”
    “Two hours a day”. I am wrestling with my fingers not to type that acronmym that HW has banned. From what I have read on three different NA websites (and not wanting to take up too much space here and turning this into a rant), it seems that NA espouses returning to a tribal-village lifestyle such as one would have found during the Medieval period of Europe. That does not seem like progress to me, nor does it sound like it is good for white people, which I and most others here (I believe) are the people we are concerned about.
    Among the search results for NA that popped up was this site;
    http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2009/summer/national-anarchism
    It sported a picture of you! It states that “national anarchism in the U.S. remains a relatively obscure movement, made up of probably fewer than 200 individuals in BANA ” and continues with “”The danger National Anarchists represent is not in their marginal political strength, but in their potential to show an innovative way that fascist groups can re-brand themselves and reset their project on a new footing,”. Although the source is certainly biased and suspect, I doubt that their estimate of your numbers and potential influence is much in error. Whites need better representation than that afforded by a cult that wishes to turn the clock backward and return to Medieval Europe or some other form of tribal village life (and give up the technological progress that we have made, although granted, some Capitalist interests have hijacked that technology and used it to our detriment) and for whom the degree of concern for our race is “merely being different is enough.” I believe that most of the posters to this site view our race as “special”- and that is unlikely to change.

  10. NO, get off the freaking computer and talk to people in the real world, all this technology stuff is a crutch to prevent you from addressing your fears of going out in public and making a stand on issues that affect us. Less internet, more reality. Last night we had a meeting of 21 people in my area that all agree with these goals. That is valuable. SharePoint is not.

  11. Mr. Yeoman,

    People on the internet are real people. The entire point of what I was suggesting was real-world action simply COORDINATED online. Technology is a useful tool, not a crutch. I’m not afraid and I don’t have a problem with public action. Honestly, it sounds like YOU fear technology, or at the least underappreciate the way that large organizations successfully employ information technology. If you can name a SINGLE world class organization that does NOT utilize the type of technology I’m talking about I’ll consider your post as something other than a fearful, counterproductive reaction.

    And if you missed my last post I live in a desert and work 84 hour weeks. If you know anything about military environments you’ll know organizing here is not only infeasible, but probably illegal as well, and would either way be shut down immediately.

  12. I’m writing from the experience of working as an IT Manager and have worked in high performance Linux clustering for 5 years including online security and blogging companies and I like to think I know a thing or two about using technology and social media.

    Calling me out on being afraid of technology is funny.

    “If you can name a SINGLE world class organization that does NOT utilize the type of technology I’m talking about I’ll consider your post as something other than a fearful, counterproductive reaction.”

    Here is just one such organization: Al Qaeda. Next argument please 🙂

  13. Al Qaeda is not a world class organization, and Al Qaeda employs information technology to achieve their objectives. The best business and political organizations all use IT: it is the reality of our time because IT amplifies effectiveness. Based on your presence HERE and your work history I guess you understand this fact.

    Here is my simple argument then:

    Information technology enables geographically-distributed individuals to coordinate their real world actions effectively and competitively.

    I read the link Oldtimer provided and found this beneath the picture of you he mentioned:

    “Indeed, one of national anarchists’ principal tactics is called “entryism,” defined in one of the movement’s how-to guides as “the name given to the process of entering or infiltrating bona fide organizations, institutions and political parties with the intention of gaining control of them for our own ends.”

    This, and your tone and reasoning, cause me to question your motives. I welcome constructive criticism, but you provide only dismissal and implicit ad hominem arguments.

  14. A3P was a nice try but even they get it wrong. They intentionally use language that attracts negative attention. They have no desire to be a real voice of advocacy for Whites.

    A “White Nation” will never be possible without war.

    A “White Advocacy Group” or a “White Political Action Committee” has a better chance of legitimizing the White voice. One way or another Whites will have to learn to work together and look out for each other when and if we become a minority. What will happen to us if we do become a minority but lack the authority or will to organize ourselves? The Whites of this country have been so thoroughly brainwashed to hate themselves or the idea of a specific racially motivated advocacy is nearly impossible.

    I was at a public gathering a week or so ago. I was going to visit the “Scottish” booth to see what was up. Before I could get in I saw some Negro girl dressed in a kilt. What pissed me off the most was thinking about how “welcoming” the group must have been towards this person when she asked if she could join. Im sure when she fills out a job application, or a welfare application she doesnt say she is Scottish! We are weak, and defeated.
    I remember hearing in school about the Roman empire, and as a citizen of Rome you could walk the globe without fear of molestation. I remember hearing stories about the segregated south, you could walk the streets at night without fear. And where are we now? Afraid to raise our heads from a computer screen to stand up for our race, our kids, our futures? Fear of losing our job? (myself included) We may fear losing our jobs today, but what will our children lose twenty years from now?

    We must do SOMETHING that appeals to the masses. Mainstream is a good idea, but what will work?

  15. “NO, get off the freaking computer and talk to people in the real world, all this technology stuff is a crutch to prevent you from addressing your fears of going out in public”
    – And what has the public demonstration thing done for you and your friends? Here, let me show you:
    http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2009/summer/national-anarchism
    There about 1/4 page down is your picture, on SPLC’s website for all the many nutcases that SPLC has walking around to reference to. Am I saying this out of cowardice? NO. Many individual activists from my generation were into this stupid public demonstration nonsense and what did it do for those “activists”? They, like you, have an FBI dossier in a file cabinet somewhere (or nowadays on their Mainframe wherever it is or at Langley VA. where the CIA probably has their copy as well). That would not make me comfortable, it would make me feel like I had a target on my back.
    This struggle, if it can be achieved at all will be successful only through two methodologies; growth in numbers through organizational methods that do NOT attract negative attention, such as Elijah has mentioned above, and/or through the type of activity espoused by Harold Covington. As the economy tanks and conditions in the country become more dire, more and more whites will be ready to listen.
    Your choice of Al’Qaeda as one such organization that does not use internet technology is neither provable nor disprovable, and convenient for you in that regard. US governmental agencies are constantly claiming to have intercepted coded messages allegedly from Al’Qaeda. So what medium are they using for their coded messages? The telephone? Walkie-talkies? Two tin cans connected with string?
    One former Congressman (from your area as a matter of fact) has publicly stated that the US government created Al’Qaeda (Daniel Hamburg) and that would not be too surprising since Osama Bin Laden was originally a CIA asset. The point is that there is little that we can be sure of regarding “Al’Qaeda” or anything that our government tells us. It does not tell us how Al’Qaeda organizes, how it communicates, how it functions or much of anything that “it” supposedly does and with its policy of constant lying to the public, how can we be sure that Al’Qaeda exists, at least in the monolithic form that our government claims for it, or if it even uses the name Al’Qaeda?

  16. “Before I could get in I saw some Negro girl dressed in a kilt.”
    That had to be a gut-wrenching sight and experience! For myself (not being a Scotsman) I wouldn’t have known whether to laugh or cry at a sight like that. The leftists piss on our various European cultures and defile them in ways designed to disrespect us at every turn.

  17. HR: “There was a slow, incremental transformation in attitudes toward homosexuality. According to Saul Alinsky, every successful revolution must be preceded by a prior reformation, which is a passive unwillingness to resist change.”

    I don’t think the comparison with Saul Alinsky works very well. In fact, White Nationalists are not subverters.

    Even without the Jewish and leftist propaganda, homosexuality would have become more widespread as society became more urban and atomized. It is difficult to evaluate the effectiveness of gay activism on popular opinion. Gay activists have managed to shut people up through intimidation, but it doesn’t mean that normal people approve of homosexuality and homosexual propaganda.

    The same is true of every other Jewish/leftist crusade to change popular opinion. It doesn’t work. For example, they didn’t persuade the Whites that race replacement was a good thing. Instead, they conquered government and the media. Race replacement was implemented in spite of White opposition. Our enemies rule by intimidation. So, you don’t really need to gradually persuade White people. Most of them already know what’s wrong with being replaced by non-whites, even if they try to suppress their instincts.

    The reason the Jews/leftists had to be sneaky and incremental is that they were afraid of a popular reaction. The reason some White Nationalists tone done their message is that they are afraid of the Jews, the leftists, and the government. They are not afraid of popular opinion.

    And they know they won’t be allowed in the media unless they compromise and make their rhetoric more acceptable to the Jews. Toning down the message isn’t the same as going mainstream. In fact, going Jewish-stream is the contrary of going mainstream. Normal people are already on our side. They are ready to hear our arguments.

  18. Hunter said:
    “It is clear to me that White Nationalists are not going to organize. If I started a real world organization, would you be willing to join it? Let’s see a show of hands everyone.”

    Touche and I have to admit I doubt I would join it. Employment discrimination and social ostracism are indeed the two greatest obstacles to the growth of white nationalism. Some of us “kooks” and “losers” actually have pretty gainful jobs that we cannot risk to lose in these times. Take away those impediments and WN would me making greater inroads into the mainstream.

    Hunter said:
    “It is not enough to be right. Our enemies are wrong, but they have a much better grasp on how to communicate their message, a handicap which will ultimately kill us, if we do not address the imbalance.”

    Half true, because how hard is it to communicate your message when you have ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNBC, CNN, most of the major daily newspapers, and universities at your disposal? That’s not to say WN’s cannot smooth over any sharp edges and modify their approach but the internet is our best method of spreading our message at this time. But white people also have to be looking for us at the same time. I don’t believe in spending much of my time with a “hard sell” type of individual. Some whites, even conservative types, are so dogmatically anti-racist and fervently Christian that they cannot be reached.

  19. The two options you offered were organization and/or subversion. If subversion we would have to think small like local tea parties and political organizations. Worming our way into the RNC or Harvard and Yale just isn’t going to happen.

    If organization then it should be loosely organized with a decentralized leadership structure. A vertical type organization with a grand pooba figurehead surrounded by mini-mees probably wouldn’t work unless the person is a natural born organizer and leader.

    Whatever the approach it has to encompass more than just going out in public, standing on a soap box and preaching one’s self hoarse. You also cannot discount the effect a flagging economy has on the average person’s political outlook. The Tea Parties success is due less to brilliant strategy than it is people are rapidly losing faith in government institutions and mainstream media and finally looking in other directions for answers. Economic convulsions often pave the way for political revolutions.

  20. In the debate between Eljiah and Andrew, I would have to support the former. Furthermore, I believe that the military world Elijah is in right now, is a good example of why he is right. Although it’s been so long since I was in uniform, that some OD readers weren’t even born, I do remember a few things.

    “Boots on the ground” is certainly important, which was called “coordination of fire and movement” in my day. However, you need to be organized before you do that. C³I: Command, Control, Communications and Intelligence. If you’ve got that, combined with good logistics, you’re pretty much good to go. That’s why I feel that Elijah’s ideas are good.

  21. Elijah proposed here a brilliant and necessary idea that should be put to use without any hesitation.In fact without the Intranet Communication Network very little will be accomplished in our movement.It is disheartening to read smart-alecky comments[like the lame remark about Al-Qaida] rejecting this constructive,immensly important initiative.Dear Elijah-please note that all the rest of comments regarding your idea are very positive .I have a powerful sense of reading in your post that it will become HUGE and unlike facebook will serve to unify us better than anything tried heretofore.Let’s do it!!!!

  22. I appreciate all of your comments. As I said before it’s not something I could stand up overnight on my own, but based on the positive reaction I will begin the first steps. I’ll send an email to my WN friend going stateside and see if he’s still interested in using his servers for a project like this: he and I both have military SharePoint design experience.

    My personal perspective is that if a strong enough alliance can form in the WN community that is focused on positive action and collaboration, weeds out the counterproductive elements, establishs a culture of professionalism and camaraderie that prevents the creeping onset of apathy, and brings the public a persistent, persuasive, and authoritative perspective on race issues, that significant gains can be made. In saying this I am drawing on my experience in and with the military, but I’m completely open to all constructive ideas and any assistance and input anyone is willing to offer. The key is that setting up technology like this can take a great deal of time, effort, and patience. There will be bumps in the road and inevitable issues that will need to be ironed out, so it would require people willing to stick with the project. Even then there would be no guarantee of attracting the community that would be necessary to justify the intranet.

    So now, if anyone is still checking these comments and interested in being part of the loop on a project like this, let me know how to contact you. I do not have enough experience with this site to know if there is a mechanism for this in place.

  23. I appreciate all of your comments. As I said before it’s not something I could stand up overnight on my own, but based on the positive reaction I will begin the first steps. I’ll send an email to my WN friend going stateside and see if he’s still interested in using his servers for a project like this: he and I both have military SharePoint design experience.

    My personal perspective is that if a strong enough alliance can form in the WN community that is focused on positive action and collaboration, weeds out the counterproductive elements, establishes a culture of professionalism and camaraderie that prevents the creeping onset of apathy, and brings the public a persistent, persuasive, and authoritative perspective on race issues, that significant gains can be made. In saying this I am drawing on my experience in and with the military, but I’m completely open to all constructive ideas and any assistance and input anyone is willing to offer. The key is that setting up technology like this can take a great deal of time, effort, and patience. There will be bumps in the road and inevitable issues that will need to be ironed out, so it would require people willing to stick with the project. Even then there would be no guarantee of attracting the community that would be necessary to justify the intranet.

    So now, if anyone is still checking these comments and interested in being part of the loop on a project like this, let me know how to contact you. I do not have enough experience with this site to know if there is a mechanism for this in place.

  24. “Al Qaeda is not a world class organization, and Al Qaeda employs information technology to achieve their objectives.”

    This is only part true: not only have they gotten global results, they are a global organization and they have gotten massive results, and your in the military??

    And they don’t exactly use SharePoint to get results…

    “The best business and political organizations all use IT: it is the reality of our time because IT amplifies effectiveness. Based on your presence HERE and your work history I guess you understand this fact.”

    It does not amplify effectiveness: it spreads information. That is what it is designed to do. Effectiveness comes from real world leadership, not technology per se.

    “Information technology enables geographically-distributed individuals to coordinate their real world actions effectively and competitively.”

    They did this in the 80’s with newsletters. In the 60’s with lithograph machines. In the 1860’s with the telegraph. Your “thesis” proves nothing of value.

    “This, and your tone and reasoning, cause me to question your motives. I welcome constructive criticism, but you provide only dismissal and implicit ad hominem arguments.”

    Please tell me where I engaged in in “ad hominem arguments,” I fail to see where I attacked anyone’s character to defeat the Bad Idea Of The Day relying on “Public Key Infrastructure” to get results.

    You can question my “motives” all you want Mr. Anonymous, I have a three year track record- a non hidden, well documented track record- of getting results, in the real world. Once you can provide us real world examples of something you have been directly involved in will I take your opinions into serious consideration.

  25. Elijah: it’s a great idea. Not to throw cold water because I would love to see your idea take off, but wouldn’t the technical infratructure you envision with Active Directory, Sharepoint and encryption cost pretty significant money for the various licenses?

  26. Mr. Yeoman,

    Ad hominem argument – from wikipedia: is an attempt to link the validity of a premise to a characteristic or belief of the person advocating the premise

    “NO, get off the freaking computer and talk to people in the real world, all this technology stuff is a crutch to prevent you from addressing your fears of going out in public and making a stand”

    This implies I am personally afraid of going out and making a stand, and that technology is my crutch, and that technology is therefore not valuable.

    “Once you can provide us real world examples of something you have been directly involved in will I take your opinions into serious consideration”

    This implies that my ideas are invalid and not useful because you personally have no knowledge of any previous successes I have. You fail to consider my suggestions on their own merit, or lack of merit, but consider ME instead.

    And do you honestly believe that debating Al Qaeda’s status as a world class organization is useful? I maintain that they are not, and I can back this up, but I maintain that it’s irrelevent. And no, I’m not in the military. I’m a veteran working over here as a civilian.

    Yes, it amplifies effectiveness BY facilitating the spread of information, among other things. If it does not, why aren’t the most successful businesses and governments using lithographs, telegraphs, and newsletters instead of massive networks? I’m trying to deal with you in good faith, but I don’t feel you’re doing the same. I’m no anarchist, but I will listen to whatever suggestions you have without being dismissive.

  27. LEW

    I’ll need to confirm this, but I don’t think we’d actually need Active Directory, as SharePoint provides an internal user account/authentication system (with optional domain authentication). Encryption technology is inexpensive or free. My understanding is that there are several free certificate-issuing services available that would allow a WN network to implement PKI. Contrary to Mr. Yeoman’s comments I feel PKI is extremely valuable and would be an essential internal security feature. There would be licensing costs associated with an effort like this, but I expect they would be minimal and the are not an issue from my perspective.

  28. “This implies I am personally afraid of going out and making a stand, and that technology is my crutch, and that technology is therefore not valuable.”

    “Once you can provide us real world examples of something you have been directly involved in will I take your opinions into serious consideration”

    This implies that my ideas are invalid and not useful because you personally have no knowledge of any previous successes I have. You fail to consider my suggestions on their own merit, or lack of merit, but consider ME instead.”

    I stand by this statement:

    “NO, get off the freaking computer and talk to people in the real world, all this technology stuff is a crutch to prevent you from addressing your fears of going out in public and making a stand”

    No more keyboard warriors, please.

  29. In this video I offer my completely unscientific but empirical evidence of what kind of organizing is effective and what is not based on 3 years of analyzing my results:

  30. Elijah: what we have now is these open forums for presentation of some off-handed opinions,like flickering lights of fireflies.What we would have with PKI is a powerful network of submarines communicating and coordinating direct actions.What a beauty!I see it now as a necessary step in Evolution for our movement.

  31. UPDATE: My friend with the servers is on board, but he’s on vacation for a week or two before he makes it home. At that time he is willing to stand up a SharePoint server we can use for hosting. The main barriers are details: what additional software we will use, how users account requests would be handled, whether or not to stand up a private certificate authority, what type of rules would be in effect, how the community would be organized, etc.

    I think it’s important not to alienate anyone with constructive ideas and common interests/goals. As an example of the power of SharePoint, it would allow everyone to have his/her own page (as well as group pages), and content fields for things like political affiliation (fascist, libertarian, anarchist, republican, whatever), experience, skills, and availability. With this we could make an attempt to create a community that recognizes divisions while minimizing their impact by providing collaboration areas based on the overlap of group interests, under the White Nationalism umbrella. Public and Shared calendars are also available, meaning we could easily coordinate advertisements/propaganda or events in distant locations – like using tasks and comments to develop informational pamphlets for distribution on a given date.

    Thanks for your encouragement, protorenaissance and others. I have experience maintaining this type of system, but not with building it from scratch – though I’m confident we can do it fairly easily if there is enough interest. For those with an interest in this: I’d love to hear your thoughts and suggestions in the time it will take to get a server running. And, Mr. Yeoman, I understand your position, but if you change your mind I’d imagine your IT Manager and activism experience would be quite an asset…

  32. I have to agree with Andrew on this that real world, face to face White community networking, action is the goal. On-line activism, networking is fine as long as it is complimentary to real world White community and not a substitute, not an escape world of “virtual community”.

    I have talked with Andrew and seen his excellent videos and can see that he does make National Anarchism work in the real world, now this might not work for you or work in you area that isn’t like the Bay Area. It might be that the term “anarchist” will just never sell with certain groups of Whites say in the Southern Bible Belt (but don’t write off the youth in such areas who are sick of the hypocrisy of the system, fake church folks).

    I would enjoy sharing my personal, face to face experiences in GOP/Conservative politics – and I had successes in later efforts.
    But again, I think we should agree;

    Our goal is to make real world White communities that work for the survival and future of our people in the real world.

  33. Perhaps it would be useful to open a new thread that dedicates itself to building PKI system for those that are already convinced and see the great utility of it.As far as my impressions tell me we are everywhere but sprinkled like poppy seeds,sparsely and isolated. To do almost any resounding actions we have to be perfectly and safely connected by the network Elijah proposes.
    Another point I believe very wise is the principle of accepting participation from all groupings of White Nationals,even if our personal ideology might not make us kissing cousins,they are our family.That’s our Inner Diversity,that has to be suffered and enjoyed.However ,it seems we should all agree while openning this network that it also excludes without exceptions people that are not of European ancestry.We would always fail to make them feel happy among us.

  34. The only reason I’m going to put my two cents in is because I’ve always liked Andrew’s approach; and even though I don’t see eye-to-eye with him on a couple of issues, I do believe that physical interaction between a group of 100 people beats the hell out of the virtual interaction of thousands.

    Why is it so impossibly difficult for like-minded people to get together at the local level, then use that momentum to prop up larger, regional and state entities that can take on larger issues? This talk of Sharepoint and encryption security makes no sense when it’s difficult enough just getting two people to meet for lunch, beer, coffee, ect. It’s just massive overkill to invest $$$$$ in something that doesn’t even really have a virtual base to begin with, let alone an actual base of REAL people. Would you buy a Ferrari for a guy who doesn’t even know how to drive? Would you buy a Ferrari for a guy you don’t even know? Would you buy a Ferrari when roads don’t exist in your area?

    Honestly, the networking capability of any software is only as productive as those who are using it. When you have motivated people, you can spend a very small amount of money on software that can effectively do everything you need it to. But, on the other hand, even the most expensive software and networking configuration can’t overcome an apathetic base. All you do is create more apathy and virtual warriors when you pump money into a dead core.

    Find the people that have enough balls and motivation to meet in the real world and build around that. All you’re going to do is end up with a more expensive version of VNN or Stormfront if you do otherwise.

  35. I understand we are talking about network for conceiving,planning,coordinating and realizing direct actions.To put down this idea it is misrepresented as another chat-room for idle chatterers.Of course we don’t have that in mind,but it is much easier to misshape some idea into its ridiculous caricature and then with a dwarfish glee stomp on it.

  36. Like protorenaissance pointed out, the idea that we’re talking about a virtual community or a chat room is a straw man. I’m proposing an intranet that will use authentication to protect the coordination of real-world actions from hostiles, and employ SharePoint to allow collaboration on projects. We could, for example, setup working groups to create effective propaganda, and then distribute it in pamphlets throughout major cities, trade skills, offer solutions and research to real-world problems that affect our interests, etc. We could discuss fundraising, coordinate the simultaneous deployment of billboards across the nation, or discuss the legal implications of doing so.

    I neither doubt nor accept the efficacy of Mr. Yeoman’s methods, but he’s already made it clear he does not support White Nationalism, so it’s no surprise he is opposed to what we’re talking about:

    [That is not my goal. There is no evidence a “white ethnostate” would not recreate the same conditions as contemporary America in a 50 year time frame.

    WN is doomed, conservatism is dead and for those of us that do not care about going mainstream (and never will) the National-Anarchist Movement is ready for you.]

    jack ryan: I agree with your conclusion. Because of the geographic distribution of the movement, and mainstream persecution, however, I feel online organization is necessary as a compliment to real world efforts. It is my belief that the most effective approach is rekindling widespread white racial consciousness by providing an authoritative and rational source of verifiable information people cannot ignore, that will not go away – delivered by humble, honest, patient, and otherwise virtuous paragons of our race.

    Celestial: I take your points seriously, but not everyone is in a position to collaborate in the real world because of life circumstances, persecution, lack of suitable peers, or other reasons. I am personally highly motivated, but I’m in the desert so direct action is infeasible, and I maintain that even if it were IT is essential as a backbone for the type of national collaboration our people need – as websites like OD illustrate. Attracting, energizing, and maintaining a motivated base of people is possible with effective leadership.

    Proto: I agree with your European descent proposition. If there’s a way to start a new thread, I’m game.

  37. Elijah:
    I got a chuckle out of this post- great work digging up that quote from Celestial Time. Do people forget what they’ve said in previous posts, or are they just that fickle?

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