Fatal Flattery

In any competition, it is crucial to accurately analyze both yourself and your competition. If they have strengths, we must identify and study them. If we have weaknesses, we must identify and compensate for them. I’m frequently accused of being less “hardcore” than more strident advocates of White Americans because I often speak of other races in inoffensive and even flattering terms. I often point out problems I see in our own race.


This isn’t because I’m less devoted to our people and our right to secure an independent future. It’s because I believe that victory is obtained through acting on the most honest and objective understanding of reality. If we are defective in some manner, then we should strive to be the first to know it and react to that defect. The worst thing we can possibly do is be so eager to flatter ourselves that we misidentify defects as superior traits and congratulate ourselves for them.

For example, we have low birthrates. This is negative. It’s bad. Failing to reproduce is a bad thing. Our goal is to have unprotected sex with White women. Seriously. How do you fail at that? Yet, to hear many White Nationalists tell it, this is all the more proof of our superiority. The fact that Mexicans sire large families is proof of their inferiority, of their failure to adopt a “high investment” strategy. We don’t burden the welfare state with OUR progeny.

Personally, I would love to see us break the welfare state in half with a demographic tsunami of White children from across the spectrum of intelligence and ability. And if well-bred Whites aren’t doing their part, then we Whites from the trailer parks should be congratulated for doing ours. Besides, FLDS compounds and Orthodox Jewish families demonstrate that the whole dichotomy is specious. One can have a large family AND invest heavily in the offspring.

In many ways, we have a similar reaction to Jewish talent. They’re demonstrably adept with discourse, ingroup loyalty, and delayed gratification. Yet, to hear many of us tell it, the mere act of competing with discourse is inherently dishonorable. Their ingroup loyalty is clannish and conspiratorial. Our failure to delay gratification in terms of resisting debt and rejecting usurious contracts is proof of their perfidy.

We need to determine whether our goal is to win or to make a nice bed for ourselves to lie in, as Mr. Darby put it in the Jim Giles interview. To win, we have to come to terms with just how dysfunctional we’ve become, how our weaknesses have been exploited by our competitors, and how some of our competitors outperform us in critical ways. We have many unique and special traits, traits that have driven us to the pinnacle of creativity and innovation. But it’s time we sobered up and started dealing with some of our other traits.

37 Comments

  1. Wikitopian, I really don’t see anything you wrote in point 1 which disagrees with my post. I agree that at the end of the day, these arguments about who possesses what traits are irrelevant, which is why I think white nationalists waste their time even making them. An organic healthy body struggles to survive, whatever its merits. Survival is its own merit and is non-negotiable.

    I disagree with some of your second point. I don’t believe “creativity” is any sort of magical trait which transcends or is apart from intelligence. I think intelligent people tend towards creativity because they’re able to see things in a different way and apply them uniquely. I get the impression WN use “creativity” as a trump card against the Asians since they have advantages in other key areas. As far as technical innovation, books have been written on Chinese technical innovations over the millenia, such as Temple’s “The Genius of China”, which suggest the opposite of what Murray claims in his foreward. As for his broad statement about them attaining little in the way of creative achievement, did Murray support his generalization with facts? Did he delve into Chinese arts, poetry, painting, etc.? These arguments can get convoluted and are by their very nature highly subjective. John Baker in his book “Race” also came up with an index which catalogued racial achievements. As I recall, China alone met all the criteria of a fully self-contained civilization in terms of having developed a writing system, pottery, metallurgy, etc. on its own without external borrowing.

    As to recent inventors, this seems to always become the ultimate argument for WN, as if keeping score of the number of inventions is the barometer for “superiority”. I’d agree with traditionalist Julius Evola that while the west has concentrated its energies in the external temporal realm, the east has always given greater priority to the interior spiritual. For all of our “faustian” thrashing about, where has it gotten us? “Whites excel in terms of envisioning entirely new systems” brought colonialism and “new systems” to foreign lands in a bid to spread “civilization” to the benighted natives. Now they’ve followed us home and are on the verge of breeding us into extinction. So much for our vaunted “dynamism” I frequently hear WN pontificating about. What a mess! Meanwhile, the Chinese built a wall to keep foreigners out and deliberately limited its interaction with “barbarians” and brought its huge naval fleet home in the 15th century because its rulers had the foresight to see what this would lead to. Consequently, it looks like the Asians will be around long after we’ve become a footnote to history.

  2. Fred Scooby should NOT get a vasectomy!

    He’s made a lot of good points over the years.

    And even if he wasn’t the high level intellect that he is, he should still strive to breed as much as he can manage, as Ethnocentric Whites NEED to have as many children as possible to push the evolution of the White Race in a more Ethnocentric Direction.

    Sometimes an Ethnocentric White will father a non-Ethnocentric child, but that’s trivial in the grand scheme of Evolution, which is not about individuals but rather about Gene Frequencies.

  3. @Guest Lurker
    I insist that you investigate the book Human Accomplishment before you dismiss it completely. It’s very comprehensive and loaded with data. I sympathize with what you’re saying about WNs using “creativity” in this broad and unprovable way to weasel around the inconvenient fact that East Asians score higher on IQ tests. I’m also a Traditionalist who’s read enough of Evola and Guenon to agree with you about the silliness of using the amount of gadgetry as the comparative measure of civilizations.

    I’m still left, after thoroughly reviewing the subject, with the impression that East Asian and Caucasian intelligences are very different, with Whites being superior at designing new systems (technological and otherwise). I’m not capable of sufficiently supporting that assertion in this comment thread and don’t expect to actually change your mind. I may try to support this position in a future post after taking the time to lay out my case.

    @Crypto-Aryan
    Can we make a deal in which I declare that Hitler and many contemporary WNs are too obsessively fixated on objective measures of genetic purity and you declare that Yockey, Evola, and pals were so abstract and esoteric in their definition of race that they fail to definitively subscribe anything which would preserve a group’s general character and appearance?

  4. Hmm I made a post about the 14 words being over-rated, and the need for vicory in our life and not to pass the burden on to our kids, and its gone. Maybe i posted it somewhere else.

  5. @Revolt
    Comment #12 on “Our Elites Have Betrayed Us”.

    Your comment has been judged by the elders of OD and found worthy.

    For the record, I don’t mess with comments unless somebody references my overbite.

    There will be no discussion of my overbite.

  6. Wiki, your deal sounds good to me.

    everyone else, i don’t know where i stand on these issues, and everything i toss out is nothing more than provisional food for thought. devil’s advocacy with the goal of making others as befuddled and unsure of themselves as i am. for befuddlement encourages dialogue, humility, intellectual curiousity, and eventually, I hope, wisdom.

    i would say that i want to see all the races, and whites especially, survive as distinct, recognizable units, while allowing room at the margins for each races to have admixtures and profitable or at least tolerable exchanges with one another. and i’m a realist — i see we live in a racially mixed world to great degree and in many ways we’re just going to have to muddle through and find a way to preserve our sanity and integrity, both personally and as a people, within that context. perhaps you might call me a racially conscious liberal white guy.

    i was very strongly interested and highly sympathetic to white nationalism and anti-semitism in 2008 and much of ’09, before i found OD. My postings here have conincided with moving away and rejecting many of these ideas. levin’s interview with jared taylor in august 2009 american renaissance was a real revelation. he seems to be moving in the same direction as I — accepting the world as it is, discovering he can job through harlem today, realizing bush was stupider than obama, and so forth, without necessarily disavowing the conclusions of his old research.

  7. danielj — so by your same logic, when a white marries an Asian or a black, the kids aren’t black or asian anymore?

    Have I been anything but cordial with you? I was trying to be “Socratic.” You framed the question in a way that elevated Jewishness and was kind of a Freudian slip. Reread your original question.

  8. By “nothing” you mean nature and wildlife?

    Depends what you mean by nature. Most of the time there is no wildlife either. Just nothing. No arable land, no forests, no nothin’.

    You want more urban sprawl and strip malls?

    Did I say that?

    You want cookie-cutter houses and apartments occupying every square mile they can? Makes me ill.

    Of course not.

    I like living on a large lot where you aren’t forced to see people. Where your cats and dogs can run free, you can have horses, and you get visits from wildlife like deer and foxes. I much prefer that than having a neighbor 30 feet from you.

    Civilization has gravitational force. Everybody can’t be like Daniel Boone complaining when a ‘damn Yankee moved within a mile of’ his Missouri homestead. However, I would probably tentatively and generally agree with you. I don’t find suburbia aesthetically pleasing. I grew up that way and am trying not to subject my kids to the same lifestyle. I’m hoping to move to Wyoming here soon. However, I do see the advantages in cities as well. Portland, San Francisco and Boston are excellent places for well developed kids to go to school and learn about human nature.

  9. I get the impression WN use “creativity” as a trump card against the Asians since they have advantages in other key areas.

    Ironically, it was a Japanese sociologist or scientist that came up with a fully articulated version of the “creativity problem.”

  10. i would say that i want to see all the races, and whites especially, survive as distinct, recognizable units, while allowing room at the margins for each races to have admixtures and profitable or at least tolerable exchanges with one another.

    Well, go find another fucking country then my man cause you can’t have that here. Looks like you really aren’t like us. There would have been people willing to forgive your slight admixture but when you say stupid shit like this, it is hard to defend you. Most would even agree with the substance of the quote if you simply appended “territorial integrity for the races” to the end of it. What it really boils down to for you is that Jews are safe to jog through Harlem? You really believe that is the essence of White Nationalism?

  11. “everything i toss out is … with the goal of making others … befuddled and unsure of themselves”

    An excellent description of CA’s comments.

    levin’s interview with jared taylor in august 2009 american renaissance was a real revelation.

    CA is in good company. Michael Levin is also Friedrich Braun’s hero.

    What it really boils down to for you is that Jews are safe to jog through Harlem? You really believe that is the essence of White Nationalism?

    Yes. It seems New York City and Jews are what matter to people like Michael Levin, Lawrence Auster, and CA. However, New York City has not been an American city for over a century thanks to (to borrow a phrase from Desmond Jones) the race-replacement that shall not be named.

  12. One thing I like about posting at Occidental Dissent is that it exposes my posts to a very wide range of people, throughout the left and right. You catch it here from Jewish partisans and monomaniacal anti-semites. You hear from tenured academics and working class racialists. I think it’s a great proving ground for ideas.

    Don’t think of Crypto-Aryan as an attacker. Think of him like one of those guys at women’s self-defense courses who dresses up in a protective suit and teaches women how to kick him in the groin. We get to test out our ideas and arguments on an actual Jew.

    So many blogs and forums become echo chambers where the participants parrot ideas back and forth without exposing them to critique. Over time, the net result is a bunch of self-satisfied radicals with their own private lexicon whose ideas are indefensible in the wild and whose rationalizations often substitute for legitimate beliefs.

  13. Wiki: “Jewish partisans and monomaniacal anti-semites”

    If one believes Jews play a crucial role in what is happening to the West, how to say so politely without sounding monomaniacal?

    “We get to test out our ideas and arguments on an actual Jew.”

    Someone at the occidental observer’s blog recently wrote a list of tips about “How to Argue Like a Jew”. (here).

    That style of debating can never improve a debate. In fact, I think Jewish interference has largely killed public intellectual life in the West.

  14. Armor,
    There’s a difference between sounding and being monomaniacal, and I wasn’t naming names. I suppose that a true monomaniac would be typified by becoming upset about other aspects of our racial predicament being discussed. For some, going on about Black crime is a dangerous distraction from rambling about Jews, one which serves as a pressure release valve. They’re often so determined to rail against Jewry that they find themselves pursuing tangential topics that are unrelated to or even in opposition to White interests. A good example would be those who call Israel a “racist apartheid regime”. They’re often guilty of the pattern of feigned victimization that one sees among Blacks and Hispanics aimed at Whites.

    That link is right on target and very amusing, but I don’t think it really describes CA’s style. He doesn’t typically act indignant or engage in the kind of rhetorical assault that Jews are frequently quilty of. It’s more like having a depressed half-Jewish Debbie Downer in the comment thread. I don’t believe the typical style would work in our little snake pit of Jew-wise dissidents.

  15. The late John Bryant received a letter from a White expat living in China. He claimed that, if all Whites left China, the economy would be dead in six months.

  16. I’m a tribalist, with race being a foundational dimension of dictating who is and who is not a member of my tribe/nation/ethnic group/team. It’s not, however, the only factor. Those who are loyal to any other group than my White American group are outgroup to me, even if they’re my biological sibling or they claim to be both White American and something else.

    Well sure, there is such a thing as treason. However, personally, while I am a nativist and I have local and regional interests, I also have ethnic and sub-racial interests. I don’t object to say a White American of Northern European descent marrying a Northern European. Our enemies are international and so we must be.

    If my brother converted to Judaism, he would no longer be on my team, tribally speaking. On the same token, those with fractional Jewish, Amerindian, or Asian ancestry who pass for White are acceptable to me if they clearly identify as White American. The important thing is whether they’re genetically and effectively working for or against the long-term interests of myself, my family, and my community.

    Converting to a religion doesn’t change one’s race. A quadroon/mestizo/hapa/mischling who says he’s White doesn’t mean he’s White. Accepting mixed people is working against the long-term interests of our race.

    Personally religion itself is not a huge issue for me, as long as racial and ethnic interests are being served.

  17. After all, you mention that half white/asians pass for white, which would indicate that White genes are dominant.

    Not in any meaningful way, it’s just that a lot of people are irrational, delusional and dumbed down. They are too focused on skin color. Objectively the Asian phenotype can still be observed and measured.

    If Asians think of themselves as superior then they are doing themselves a disservice by outbreeding. I encourage non-White racialism, it helps us as well.

  18. 2. That East Asians surpass Whites in intelligence and neoteny

    Charles Murray, author of the Bell Curve and proud father of half-Asian children, did a very comprehensive job of trying to objectively measure the relative accomplishments of the different civilizations throughout history in Human Accomplishment. As he admits in the foreword, he was stunned by how little East Asians had actually accomplished in terms of innovation, advancement, and creative achievement.

    Indeed, they are just too beta, too insular, they are not adventurers. Even beta White males look like studs compared to Asian males. I’ve known of many such beta White males that go to Asia and are treated like superstars by the girls there.

    Whites are the golden mean. Asians believe in harmony, and miscegenation is disharmony, it creates a physical, mental and psychological imbalance.

    Asians also cluster around the IQ mean, like women do, whereas White males have many more great geniuses.

  19. Don’t think of Crypto-Aryan as an attacker. Think of him like one of those guys at women’s self-defense courses who dresses up in a protective suit and teaches women how to kick him in the groin. We get to test out our ideas and arguments on an actual Jew.

    There are Jews worth reading that are thoughtful, insightful and challenging. Philip Rieff, Marcuse, Adorno, Marx, Freud, etc. and I don’t think CA qualifies for reading as a Jew qua Jew. They are relevant and intelligent where he is just average.

  20. I grew up that way and am trying not to subject my kids to the same lifestyle. I’m hoping to move to Wyoming here soon. However, I do see the advantages in cities as well.

    I think it’s healthier for children to be raised around nature and animals, I think it creates a more harmonious personality.

    I am a bit of a technophile, so I do enjoy cities for that reason.

  21. Ok then. Failed joke. I thought Chinks had high percentages of overbites? I don’t feel like finding the statistics. I tried for five minutes and they aren’t readily available.

  22. @Mark[71]
    Our enemies are international and so we must be.
    Our enemies are tribal. We must be tribal.

    Converting to a religion doesn’t change one’s race.
    Real religion, not the superficial adornment of Masonic fancy, is the pervasive worldview and tradition of a people. Centuries of Talmudic practices created the Jew, just as millennia of brutal and amoral superstition created the Black man. Race is applied religion.

  23. I am a bit of a technophile, so I do enjoy cities for that reason.

    The problem with me and my wife is that we are basically right wing hippies. I’m a huge liberal. I love independent cinema, punk rock, alt-country, museums, art galleries, etc. and they are few and far between out in the country. We also like hiking and nature. San Francisco was nice for us because we had wine country and a lot of other natural beauty around.

    Portland might have all that good stuff and apparently it is very, very white. I’ve got an application in at a utility in Portland too.

  24. The late John Bryant received a letter from a White expat living in China. He claimed that, if all Whites left China, the economy would be dead in six months.

    He left us too soon. He didn’t start out a White racialist, but he saw the light soon enough. I appreciated his insights, contributions and willingness to stand up to the mob.

  25. Wonderful!

    It is as if the lower class white believes they will somehow not be on the bottom of an all white totem pole.

    They ought to respect their betters as their betters fight for the best possible outcome for all of us.

    Most of the haters world channel their hatred towards the white upper-class in an all white world. They would be the first to abandon ship if we do start winning, using “purity” rhetoric as a justification.

    The natural order is not just between races, it is also within races.

  26. Wiki: “I don’t think it really describes CA’s style.”

    You are right. Instead, I think part of CA’s tactic is to sidetrack the debate by being out-of-sync. There is more than one Jewish way to disrupt a debate about “western racial and cultural preservation”.

    Here is another criticism of Jewish behavior (found at MajorityRights), which is part of a reply to CaptainChaos, who keeps referring too much to National Socialism: “the Jews set up a bipolar moral universe and the young WN, hoping to rebel, chooses the other pole.”

    It is clear to me that the news media have become a bipolar moral universe. It doesn’t help intellectual debate. I don’t think it used to be like that in the old days.

  27. Armor,
    I agree about the bipolar moral universe thing. I’ve seen that happen far too often. I believe most “neo-nazis” become so because they identify and rebel against the Jewish power structure while failing to deconstruct and dissociate from the Jewish paradigms. According to the modern mythology, to identify and resist Jewish power is to be a Nazi.

    But I think that reinforces my point that we need to be exposed to these and other tactics so that we can develop and refine our reactions to them. If we intend to foster a vanguard adept at challenging their discourse, we need practice, right? We need to figure out how to keep focused on our points even when they try to derail us. That’s my opinion, anyway.

  28. As I’ve noted before, whites are not “going extinct” in the normal sense of the word, the way that say the Scythians were going extinct two thousand years ago. There are more whites today than there were a hundred years ago.

    Doubt it, but there are certainly fewer now than there were 50 or 30 years ago.

    F minus for you.

  29. Jews — the heroes of antisemites whether they can admit it or not — have never worried about their numbers.

    What planet do you live on?

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