Elite Status
Oct 20th, 2009 by Hunter Wallace
Who should rule?
Logging on this morning, I see that this has once again become a burning issue among the commentators. So far, I haven’t had much to say about the topic. I don’t aspire to rule over anyone. Becoming a politician isn’t a good fit with my introverted personality type. It is a task that I would prefer to leave to others. We have already had one commentator storm off the site because of a controversial turn in this discussion. It is better to discuss the matter now (in its own definitive blog entry) than to have it continue to spill over into unrelated threads.
Nietzscheans
As everyone here knows by now, NeoNietzsche is a passionate admirer of Friedrich Nietzsche and subscribes to a peculiar interpretation of his theories. He believes in a caste system (warrior, cleric, peasant) and sees himself as part of the elect few who should rule in a White Nationalist ethnostate. Following Nietzsche, NN believes everyone has an essential orientation, master or slave, dominant or submissive, and that different moral systems correspond to this primordial mammalian division. As an advocate of “master morality,” he would abolish liberal democracy and confer elite status upon the “higher types” who are naturally born to rule.
Jeffersonians
In the United States, Jeffersonians are the most numerous in White Nationalist circles. In their view, the best type of government is the one that governs least. These people don’t see anything essentially wrong with the American system. They believe in state and local government and instinctively oppose the consolidation of power in Washington. Jeffersonians like to attribute our racial decline to the corrupting influence of outside forces, namely the Jews, and argue that racial sanity would quickly return to America after the excise of this cancer. Under the Jeffersonian system, elite status would be conferred through local elections and the private accumulation of wealth in a capitalist economy.
Hamiltonians
Like the Jeffersonians, the Hamiltonians still believe in republican self government, but prefer a strong, centralized state to a weak one. Instead of free trade, they want an America First trade policy. Hamiltonians support a strong public sector and a regulated market economy to ensure a more equitable distribution of wealth. They believe a few constitutional reforms will be sufficient to reverse our racial decline. In their ideal White ethnostate, elite status would also be conferred through elections and wealth accumulation in the private sphere.
Libertarians
The libertarians are a subset of the Jeffersonians who believe in a minimal state. They believe the only function of the state is to protect individual rights: military, police, courts. The libertarians would scrap the entire ediface of twentieth century progressive reforms in the name of liberty. In a libertarian White ethnostate, elite status would be conferred through participation in the market economy, as government would be hamstrung by a strict constitution.
Fascists
The fascists (this includes National Socialists and related species of fascism) want an authoritarian state headed by a dynamic leader with near absolute power. They would dispense with liberal democracy entirely and replace it with a racialized bureaucracy. This concentration of power would be used to rid the fascist ethnostate of Jews and other undesirable elements. Elite status would be conferred through rising in the party and pleasing its established leaders.
Platonists
For lack of a better word, the “Platonists” are White Nationalists who advocate rule by a Guardian caste or order. These Guardians would be chosen through breeding and merit. Exemplary Whites imbued with an unusual dedication to their race would enjoy rights and privileges that other citizens would not.
Christian Nationalists
The Christian Nationalists believe a strong, rejuvenated Christianity is a necessary component of a White ethnostate. In essence, they want an ethnostate based on Christian moral values. Some Christian Nationalists want a republic; some a monarchy; some a theocratic dictatorship. In all cases, elite status would be strongly connected to religious piety.
Monarchists
The monarchists want a king and hereditary aristocracy. Elite status would be conferred through the possession of royal blood.
Anarchists
The anarchists want to dispense with government entirely. In their proposed ethnostate, as there would be no government, politics would not exist and there would be no mechanism for selecting elites. In theory, everyone would be equal in this classless society.
Where I Stand
So, after all this, what is my answer to this question?
Politically, I stand between the Hamiltonians and Platonists. I think that government can be a force for good and that White Nationalists will need a strong central state to repel invasions by our multitude of enemies. The republican system is a proven model for ensuring continuity and the peaceful transfer of power. I think we would be unwise to dispense with it in pursuit of some of the more outré, untested ideas discussed above.
The worst aspects of republicanism can be dealt with through constitutional reforms. For one, I don’t believe in universal voting rights. In my ideal republic, the franchise would only be extended after certain conditions are met. Voters would be required to demonstrate they are intelligent, competent, and moral enough to enjoy the privilege of selecting our leaders. I also believe that the Guardian caste should have more sway than the average citizen. A real electoral college could be set up in which the Guardians could exercise a veto over bad popular selections.
Morally, Alasdair MacIntyre has been the major influence on my views. Like MacIntyre, I believe that morality is only logical within the context of established traditions. There are a number of moral traditions out there, each of them with their own history, each of them having different premisses as their starting point. It is impossible to properly reason across these incommensurate traditions.
I believe our moral discourse has been the victim of the catastrophe described by MacIntyre in the Preface of After Virtue : we only possess fragments of a coherent moral framework, terms which have lost the context which once made them plausible, and that rational people are diverted into nihilism by this disarray. There are no universal, objective moral principles analagous to the laws of science. Instead, moral philosophy is a practical science like Aristotle always claimed it was: it is a how-to guide for actualizing some given ideal. In other words, I believe that morality (at some level) is reducible to aesthetics. That’s a topic for another day.
These are only my answers. What are yours?
> Who should rule?
I should.
I’m a Silverian. He’s a prick, not really funny or all that clever when not engaged in dialogue, but he keeps his boat close to shore by asking, most realistically, how the existing configuration of society can be modified for the benefit of its disgruntled ethnoi. This is still what I’ve called fantasy — the solipsism of the White Nationalist “desiring machine” irretrievably cut off from all realworld politics — but it’s as close to realism as White Nationalist gets: he doesn’t imagine the whole world bending itself to his desires, no disaster / salvation / Awakenings scenarios, the immense evolutionary processes of history are not expected to screech to a halt, volte face, and restore a fetishized “Old Order”, “Golden Age”, etc.
Anyway, it’s a nice roster of how we magnify our importance according to preferred ideological trappings.
I’m not really a “Silverian” — before the Inquisition trundles back in.
Using your descriptions, why not a Jeffersonian political system and a Hamiltonian economic system? Protectionism and tariffs and bilateral trade agreements are simple and extremely effective.
Libertarianism and Anarchism are either too infantile, or too dogmatic to be practical. Monarchism is similar, no official royals in White land are more than figureheads.
Christian Nationalism; once you reign in the nuttiest of the fundamentalists, regular White middle class Christianity always has and still does a good job supporting White fertility, sexual mores, and family life, and excluding degenerates and Jews.
Platonism “These Guardians would be chosen through breeding and merit.”
No, which actual people do the choosing? If everyone, that’s a democracy, if it’s self-selection, that’s an oligarchy, and both have their problems. This is just another politician or priest class, and revolutions would have never happened if it wasn’t for oppressive politicians and priests. There’s no point in that.
On the other hand, naturally elite figures that earn the trust of the public are instinctively listened to, emulated, and followed. I think the public can choose those people in an informal, but nevertheless definitive way.
NeoNietzsche is Wintermute Lite and uh is a Silverian, glad I have things straight now.
Uh for Fuhrer.
Captainchaos for Dzerzhinsky.
Theodemocracy. It will be a mash-up of an indigenous, orderly religious priesthood and our existing constitutional republic. It will be a bit like Iran’s government, which is very intelligently designed. A core of indigenous elites overlooks a generally democratic and limited government, assuring cultural continuity, ethnic integrity, and moral restraint.
I’ve been around right-wing religious types of all sorts and sizes since before you were born. Not one has EVER called for a theocratic dictatorship. None. Zero.
Someone actually left due to this discussion? Another reason to concentrate on real-life interaction, I suppose. Really, the whole thing is putting the cart before the horse.
(Though having a dog-catcher chasing stray Jack Russells about town dressed as Herman Goering, might be worth a vote in the Fascism category.)
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! WTF?!
Wikitopian: I don’t advocate violence (which isn’t the same thing as opposing it) but if one of your chosen priesthood wanders into my sites, he’ll be having dinner in hell, where he belongs.
Hey now, what about the “Spenglerians”? Though Nietzsche was of course brilliant and I have drawn from some of his ideas, I’ve always preferred Spengler instead as he was able to ‘keep his wits about him,’ ya dig?
I draw my views from all of the ideologies you mentioned in the post, taking what I think is best or most helpful from each one and then discarding the chaff. They are all valid in some ways or at least they were back in their own time(s), and we can in some cases still draw on some of their ideas in contemporary times.
“Jeffersonians” — Pres. John Adams also held similar pro-agrarian/pro-pastoral and local/state’s rights views as Pres. Jefferson, and so did did Pres. Washington. This means that the first three Presidents were all personally inclined toward the aforementioned viewpoints, and their subsequent and consecutive elections set a clear precedent for the young nation via their early domination of the Executive Branch. In their personal lives they also embodied the best qualities of Western man - all three were intellectuals/scholars, warrior-politicians, and agrarianists/pastoralists to some degree or another.
I guess that’s at least 1 point for the traditionalist agrarian/pastoral White American camp, and 0 for the rampaging Neo-Mongolian ‘Horse Troopers’ side.
—
All that being said, one of the best things about American WNism is that it is heavily syncretic, drawing from multiple ideologies and knowledge-bases. There is no reason why various factions of pro-Whites cannot congregate and cooperate underneath a large WNist tent which is accepting of many different pro-White approaches as long as we all agree on the same overarching goals, including the permanent preservation of White Europeans here in North American, the rational repatriation of non-Whites to their former racial/ethnic homelands, and a reasonable solution to the Jewish Problem in White nations.
“Who should rule?”
The Physiocrats! We are all ‘Ruled by Nature’ and/or The Eternal Creative Cosmic Intelligence which set-up said Nature here on Earth.
Rick,
Don’t kill the messenger. I’m just telling you what’s coming.
Also, I wouldn’t associate Jeffersonianism too much with anti-Jewish attitudes. Recent genetic evidence suggests that he quite likely had some Jewish (Sephardic) ancestry of his own, as his Y-DNA line shows up as Haplogroup ‘T’ (formerly ‘K2′), which is very rare amongst native Europeans but instead occurs mostly in the Middle East, North Africa, Asia, and even Sub-Saharan West Africa. How the hell did that specific DNA group end up in Wales and then eventually in Jefferson’s veins? From wandering Sephardic Jews who started showing up in Cromwell’s UK, of course.
That slimy sonofabitch Alexander Hamilton was also a heavily Judaized bastard (how fitting for America’s first Secretary of the Treasury), having been educated whilst young in a private Jewish school which was being run by Jewish slave-traders who were at that time residing heavily in the West Indies and importing endless numbers of Negroid slaves to work on various plantations they had founded all over the New World.
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Lord Acton.
The guardian caste of the Platonists reminds me of Oath Keepers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7Li_CoNazI
I used to have alot of faith in the ‘common folk’ idealized by Jeffersonians, but as I’ve matured I realize that they are often no better than children or livestock. People need guidance and direction or else they devour all resources in sight, breed uncontrollably, and generally make a mess of things. And this assuming we’re dealing with decent people of average intelligence! Heaven forbid you allow the real dregs of humanity to run amok - your civilization won’t last more than half a century!
No, it’s Platonism for me. Benevolent dictators and a Guardian class are the way to go. Citizenship will be limited to those who have proven to be mature enough to handle it. And even then, citizenship needs to be a privilege granted to worthy individuals and not simply handed out like candy.
I forgot to include the doomers (uh) and neocons (Jobling, Guy White). I would have included the racialist paleocons, but the existing divisions above (Hamiltonians, Jeffersonians, Christian Nationalists) seemed to encompass all of them. The list will be updated in the morning.
Monitor,
I had in mind the dual seedline Christian Identity types like Martin Lindstedt.
I’ve been around right-wing religious types of all sorts and sizes since before you were born. Not one has EVER called for a theocratic dictatorship. None. Zero.
That is essentially what the Chalcedon Institute and theonomists call for.
and Reconstructionists of various types.
Those who are attracted to white nationalism probably aren’t that concerned about issues like tariffs and internal improvements which are heresy to libertarians.
But I can think of two issues that Platonists and Hamiltonians might differ with the average WN on, and they’re deal breakers.
Home schooling and gun control.
Of the two gun control is by far the most explosive (no pun intended.) I could be persuaded that a white nationalist state would provide decent public schooling, I could not be persuaded to give up mass private gun ownership by whites under any circumstances.
A disarmed man is a slave.
Or to put it another way, if guns are outlawed how can we shoot the Nietzscheans?
Dr. Gary North has called for theocracy. He wants adulterers and infidels to be stoned (he is also a libertarian).
I am still recovering from the staggering profundity of your Quality or Quantity essay!
The leadership question is a complex one. I suspect that a strong benevolent leader is essential, but even a perfect leader dies, which precipitates chaos.
Elections are not the answer because they attract narcissistic psychopaths who lead us to ruin though ruthless application of the “I’ll be gone” (IBG) management principle. I also have a problem with universal suffrage. Mass literacy degraded literature, just as universal suffrage degraded the United States. Intellectually selective franchise might improve the process, but character trumps intellect and clever psychopaths abound.
Perhaps a form of monarchy is the answer. The UK survived for 1000 years under a monarchy, until they began experimenting with democracy. Now, Mohammed is the number one name for baby boys in London. Monarchy addresses the leader mortality and IBG management problems, because the monarch passes the throne to his offspring instead of an opponent. The poor heir problem could be circumvented by an arrangement in which the monarch eugenically selects multiple wives and sires many children. The children would be groomed for leadership and a meritorious line of succession could be established by the monarch and a senate as they matured.
Yes, I realize that such a scenario is highly likely. However, any scenario including the multicultural paradise in which we now live would have drawn laughs in 1950.
He wants adulterers and infidels to be stoned (he is also a libertarian).
I like to be stoned too, sometimes. Will that be permitted by whoever’s going to rule the inevitable White Nationalist Reich? The Aryans had ganja, yanno.
Okay, after watching the link posted above to the ‘Oath keepers’ video, I realize I am in favor of any system that will rid us of Chris Matthews and that malignant tumor known as Mark Potok.
My political ideal leans toward that of an enlightened aristocracy.
Voting would be limited to male, gentile, founding stock landholders of at least 35 years of age who have not been convicted of crimes by a legitimate ruling of the ethnostate. Those termed “citizens” would include voters as well as their spouses and children.
The purpose of the state is surmised in three points: 1. To protect its citizen’s forefathers from defamation. 2. To protect and further its living citizen’s interests. 3. To ensure the survival of its citizen’s progeny. The government and its institutions will be large enough or small enough, as needed, to enforce the three points.
Citizens would have their own schools, courts of justice, government services, and community functions designed specifically to serve them. Citizens would have some form of garb with which to identify themselves –as the Romans had the citizen’s toga– and which only they can legally wear. It will be as conspicuous or inconspicuous as needed.
Citizens would be educated from childhood in rhetoric, dialectic, logic, and other the other political arts so that they would be wise enough to argue in their own interests. The classics, as well as Greek and Latin, will be taught, so as to give the citizens a core set of identifying principles and methods of communication that will further separate them from the non-citizen (helot) classes.
Children will be rigorously drilled in etiquette. By young adulthood protocol and titles will be used instinctively and reflexively by the nation’s young. Women will be respected, children held to account for their actions, and helots shown mercy.
Honors and titles will be conferred by the acknowledged wisest of the aristocracy to citizens whose bravery and leadership in martial or trade warfare brings fortune to the ethnostate. Such titles will be /very/ lucrative and /very/ selective. The purpose of these honors is to engender an atmosphere of meritocracy in the nation.
A department of heredity will be formed to catalog the breeding and bloodlines of the families of the state. This department will resolve of many of the state’s litmuses, and will therefore be of core importance. Think of it as a lofty Parthenon sitting above the utopia being described. Many positions in the state will be limited to citizens of X generations. The department of heredity will be consulted in appointments to such positions and their ruling will be obeyed.
The highest honor a member of the non-citizen helot class could receive is non-voting citizenship. This will be extremely rare act of kindness by the state. The department of heredity will approve or disapprove of the nomination, and if approved, the helot will be granted land by the aristocracy and given his garb.
Artisans and craftsman will be of prime importance to the state. Works will be built aesthetically and built to last. The abandoning of disposable culture, by whatever method, will create the need for more craftsmen, and therefore, a demand for more labor. Protective tariffs will ensure goods made on the other side of the world are not cheaper than goods made one mile from a citizen.
For a rough visual approximation of an enlightened aristocracy, look to the BBC’s “Pride and Prejudice” miniseries of 1995. Manners, morals, aesthetics, logical argument, honor, and wisdom are all in evidence. Conspicuously absent are self-pity, histrionics, vague language, and senseless violence.
This is a needed thread. I hope to see what others say.
Will that be permitted by whoever’s going to rule the inevitable White Nationalist Reich?
I doubt it. WN tend to be anti-marijuana, although in my opinion it is just posturing.
The Aryans had ganja, yanno.
Yes, Scythians and others did use it.
“I also have a problem with universal suffrage. Mass literacy degraded literature, just as universal suffrage degraded the United States”
I like an idea I saw once: Modified republic, where voting is based on pro-White, moral behaviors.
Goes like this: Everybody White, breathing and 21 gets a vote. But, the right to cast EXTRA votes can be earned by such things as marrying, having children, owning property. That way, deadbeats are out-voted by responsible people. It would take a huge majority of deadbeats to out-vote the responsibles on any given issue.
I think Paul Craig Roberts is right: Free trade with countries like China which use, essentially, slave labor, there is no “comparative advantage,” as those slave-labor countries have an absolute advantage.
Free trade, when conducted with countries composed of non-European derived peoples is just asking the savages to cut our throats. Tariffs on non-White countries. Free trade with White countries.
[i]I doubt it. WN tend to be anti-marijuana, although in my opinion it is just posturing.[/i]
I’d hope we’d be anti-marijuana. Marijuana is a disgusting and dangerous drug. People who smuggle, sell, distribute, cultivate, possess, or smoke marijuana should be jailed. I strongly favor the Japanese and South Korean attitude for dealing with potheads - jail’em.
Marijuana is a dangerous drug, though. Use of marijuana damages the bodies chromosomes and results in children with genetic defects. It also, over time, results in brain-damage.
The myth that marijuana is no more dangerous than alcohol has been aggressively promoted by the international drug cartels since the 1960s. Teenagers find this easy to believe because they see many adults who drink alcohol without apparent harm (even though many lives have been destroyed by alcohol). So, some teens feel free to experiment by smoking a little pot and drinking a little alcohol.
In fact, marijuana is radically different from alcohol and far more dangerous. Marijuana is very deceptive and perhaps as harmful as heroin.
Alcohol is water soluble and so, when it is absorbed into the body, it dissolves in the blood and stays in the blood as it is carried around the body to various organs. It is gradually eliminated, primarily by being metabolized in the liver and, within hours, no alcohol is left in the body. The hangover that lasts a day or so after heavy drinking is caused by poisons generated by alcohol in the body, not by the alcohol itself.
Marijuana, on the other hand, acts on the body in a very different way. Marijuana’s psychoactive ingredient, THC, is strongly fat soluble but cannot dissolve in water or in blood. THC is stored for many weeks in the fatty tissues of the body.
THC is extremely slow acting. THC is one million times more potent than alcohol, but appears to be mild because very little reaches the brain during the “high” and, unlike alcohol, doesn’t leave a hangover.
When marijuana is smoked regularly, THC accumulates in body fat. The THC is slowly fed back into the blood, and the user gradually slips into a state of continual sedation. In time, the steady presence of THC in the blood damages the brain, the lungs, the immune system, the chromosomes, the hormones, the reproductive system, and sexual development. The frequent pot user becomes passive and devoid of personal ambition.
Most important, the pot user doesn’t realize what has happened to him because he is sedated all the time. The daily marijuana smoker is in a perpetual fog but doesn’t realize it.
Because THC is continually present, the body rapidly builds up tolerance to it, and so the pot user is led to smoke more and more to regain the original high. Eventually, the high from pot fails to satisfy, and he may turn to other drugs, including alcohol, to achieve a high. Nevertheless, he usually continues to smoke pot as he uses the other drugs, because pot makes him “feel good all the time.”
When using alcohol, a regular pot smoker typically drinks to excess because he is constantly numb from his steady THC blood level and requires several drinks to feel an effect. Also, pot strongly inhibits nausea and he can drink heavily without getting sick. Normally, a teenager vomits from excessive alcohol, but one who regularly uses pot can easily hold down a lethal alcohol overdose. Since THC insidiously builds up in the body, experimenting with pot often lures a youngster into a trap of escalating drug and alcohol abuse. It is not alcohol that leads to marijuana abuse; it is marijuana that leads to alcohol abuse.
Withdrawal symptoms are mild when pot use is abruptly ended because THC cannot be withdrawn rapidly; the body has its own supply. It takes one week of abstinence for the THC stored in fat to drop to half, and one month to drop to 5%.
Data from scientific studies have been analyzed to describe quantitatively the storage of THC in the body. These data show that the steady THC blood level from smoking one “joint” per day, with 2% THC, would evoke a high in a beginning marijuana smoker. The experienced pot smoker does not feel a constant high, but he is continually sedated.
The THC in marijuana today is up to 25 times more potent than it used to be. In the 1960s, the THC in pot rarely exceeded 1%, but today may be 12% to 25%.
Landmark research by Dr. Robert Heath, a world renowned brain researcher, shows the drastic effect of marijuana on the brain. He proved that marijuana’s effect on the brain makes it one of the most dangerous drugs available.
Public attitudes toward drugs are continually clouded by propaganda from the drug cartels, whose profits from illegal drugs are so immense that they nearly equal the annual expenditures of the U.S. Federal Government. The major drug profits come from heroin and cocaine, but the drug kingpins know that marijuana users, in a constant state of sedation, are their prime market for cocaine and heroin. Without marijuana use, the demand for cocaine and heroin would tend to dry up as the addicts die. As long as the severe dangers of marijuana are obscured, they are assured a steady market for cocaine and heroin.
Of course, all marijuana smokers do not turn to cocaine and heroin, but a large proportion do. This is why the drug cartels want to legalize marijuana — they would give it away if they could. The drug kingpins know that those inclined to experiment with drugs no longer first try cocaine or heroin (as was common in the 1960s); they go first to marijuana, an insidious trap, and then escalate their drug use to get a bigger high. Since pot is stored in the body for weeks, the user is seductively dragged into a state of continual sedation, his mind becomes confused, and in time his brain is permanently damaged.
Marijuana has no future in any White ethno-state in my opinion.
As Derek Vinyard said, weed is for niggers.
When a WN thinks we went wrong largely determines where they stand on this. If we went wrong in the 1960s something like paleoconservatism is good enough. If we went wrong with the New Deal libertarianism might be the cure. If we went wrong with the defeat of the South in the War Between the States then Jeffersonianism will fix us up. If we went wrong with the Reformation then Catholic theocracy and maybe even monarchy may be called for. If, however, we went wrong with the Renaissance then Nietzschism is the ticket.
Now I don’t know about you guys, but I don’t want to fight a white revolution to restore myself to serfdom. So any plan had better be post-renaissance and grant rights to white men or you can count me out.
OK. If the only marijuana available were the old fashioned 1% THC kind, would you change your mind about jailing users & sellers? Personally, I make no distinction between mood-altering illegal drugs (marijuana) and the ones prescribed by criminals called medical doctors. It’s all the same shit, and they’re all sleazy pushers.
I have known people who smoke mj day after day and they are almost brain dead; they can barely carry on a conversation and they get angry quickly over nothing. And I know people on prozac-type drugs to whom life is just a bowl o’ cherries, everything’s beautiful. But when they try to stop the drug, the feelings are so bad, physically & mentally, that they would prefer to be put through a bark chipper. And so they go back on their happy pills. I wonder what would happen when our economy breaks down and these drugs are perhaps not available any more. Can you imagine 118,000,000 or so of these druggies going without their antidepressants? Sounds like it will be pure hell for the whole population.
Morally, Alasdair MacIntyre has been the major influence on my views.
Have you read Who’s Morality,Which Rationality by same?
A great riposte to all of the conservative Allan Bloom enthusiasts.
In other words, I believe that morality (at some level) is reducible to aesthetics.
Very beautiful thought.Karl Popper,otherwise worthless,once said “the Platonic philosopher creates cities for beauty’s sake.” Kind of mirrors my philosophy.However,I think aesthetics and morality essentially function at cross purposes.Aesthetics are “beyond good and evil.” At least in the common sense understanding of those terms.
Europeans should rule.We would be far better off as a province of Europe than as a sovereign entity..As for the type of European,I would say fascists.Of the pan-European variety.Norman Lowell is a good example.(I have not yet read his Imperium Europa.)
Back to aesthetics.Which European country is famous for being the most aesthetically refined in the world? Hint:it ain’t Sweden.
Good “practical politics” and psy ops training for WNs
White Rabbit Radio
http://www.whiterabbitradio.net/
Good ol’ Mary Jane is a subject that needs to be taken up more often.
I’m not gonna stop smoking it. Period. Full stop.
Marijuana has no future in any White ethno-state in my opinion.
You’re wrong. It is medicine.
Back to aesthetics.Which European country is famous for being the most aesthetically refined in the world? Hint:it ain’t Sweden.
Are we talking about France?
Have you read Who’s Morality,Which Rationality by same?
A great riposte to all of the conservative Allan Bloom enthusiasts.
Do you mean Whose Justice? Which Rationality?
Felim, interesting post. Lots of stuff in there that I knew little about. Do you have any recommended sites for more information?
‘It is certainly necessary that there be parties to make agitprop. But the important thing is the network…It is not a “withdrawal,” but a general-purpose strategy. One needs parties, publishers, associations, trade unions. It is necessary that there be in civil society a presence of our ideas. But all the forms of action are necessary: it does not do to want to make metapolitics against politics. All actions, political, cultural, should be connected by the same vision of the world. It is not a strategy of withdrawal, but of spreading out, comparable with that which the Trotskyists had — who are today at the head of the State and of the Catholic Church! – from the ’60s. The French national Right is undermined by the culture of defeat, petty bosses, gossip: the different groups of Muslims and Leftists can detest one other, but they have each and all the same enemies against whom they unite. Whereas for many people of our ideas, the enemy is at first his own political friend, for simple reasons of jealousy!’
Do you mean Whose Justice? Which Rationality?
Oops! Thanks for the correction daniel.
Are we talking about France?
Non.But you’re getting warmer.
Good ol’ Mary Jane is a subject that needs to be taken up more often.
I’m not gonna stop smoking it. Period. Full stop.
Thank you, danielj.
Felim, anti-marijuana zealotry is not my cup of tea. I frankly don’t care for moralizing and the use of an herb for smoking is among the more innocuous things a person could do. My personal experience doesn’t match those extreme claims you’ve made about the stuff either. Experience is a better teacher than medical propaganda.
As Derek Vinyard said, weed is for niggers.
Yeah, a Neo-Nutzi stereotype from a Judeo-Multikult movie. Real fucking credible. Completely ignoring the fact that Indo-Europeans used it.
This has to be the best discussion I’ve seen on the High Times blog in years.
Dr. North wants infidels/adulterers to be stoned- to death.
Dr. North wants infidels/adulterers to be stoned- to death.
Not just Dr. North, as I previously indicated. Almost all theonomists and various stripes of Christian Reconstructionists would agree to that.
What is wrong with stoning adulterers anyway?
Are we talking about France?
Non.But you’re getting warmer.
Italia!
Felim, anti-marijuana zealotry is not my cup of tea. I frankly don’t care for moralizing and the use of an herb for smoking is among the more innocuous things a person could do. My personal experience doesn’t match those extreme claims you’ve made about the stuff either. Experience is a better teacher than medical propaganda.
I don’t even smoke that much. I can’t because of my CDL, but it just isn’t a big deal. Yeah dig? Who cares about a stupid little plant. I bet our zealot would be begging for opiate pain killers under certain circumstances. Some people, not me, but some people are much better people because they smoke a joint every night.
If they wanna smoke themselves blind or stupid then it is probably a good thing that it will make them infertile. It is herbal eugenics babe.
FFS, smoke pot if you want, cheat on your wife if you want, do whatever, just accept the responsibility for your actions and don’t sell out your fellow whites. Is it that hard? God will judge you.
God forbid perverts like the neo-nietzscheans ever get their S&M empire of “superhumans” and “slaves” or potheads forget to protect the homeland because they “got high”.
Instead of some fantasy utopian White Paradise can we all try to come up with practical tactics that can keep us from being race-replaced and genocided?
I’m half the mind that the Occidental Bullshit-Artists are wasting our time as much as faileocons and Republican FOX News watchers.
We’re dying here … OldRight is right at least keep your guns.
@OldRight
>Home schooling and gun control … if guns are outlawed how can we shoot the Nietzscheans?
Amen
potheads forget to protect the homeland because they “got high”.
That is ridiculous and funny.
So you believe in moral relativism? Who’d have thunk it?
Schopenhauer pointed out that all through history three elements spring to life with every action depending on a persons character:
1. Egoism - the common element in which personal weal is forefront. If you do good actions to go to heaven then it is egoism. If you sell your grandmother for a bottle of liquor, it is egoism. If you are altruistic to get a good reputation it is egoism.
2. Malice - when someone enjoys the sufferings of others even to the point of causing suffering to enjoy it.
3. Compassion - when someone works for the weal of others without regard to personal benefit or disadvantage.
In all societies in which we would want to live, malice would be at a minimum and be controlled through counter motives like prison and execution. Compassion would be at a maximum, and egoism, as always, the norm.
By compassion, I mean mature, well adjusted, adult compassion. Jews like to give monologues to child-murders, sexual perverts, etc to try and make us identify and feel compassion for them. The proper response is to put pervert murderers, rapists out of their misery with a bullet to the head. That is compassionate. To cleanse the environment of wilding negroes who attack or pull down spiritually our children is compassionate. To not pollute our children’s blood so that they become some wierd mix that has no cultural and racial identity and are more likely to suffer some strange medical condition is compassionate.
If you have children you know you sometimes have to force them to take medicine. You don’t like to but you understand having a “bleeding heart” is not the same as being compassionate. It is a mature, adult judgement.
So yes there are real moral standards which have been understood by all the more developed peoples. The jews are the race of malevoence, of malice. They pretend their malice is compassion and white people buy it. They buy the pretended compassion. Why? Have they
no real compassion to purchase?
[Thanks to Hunter for the temperate remarks regarding (the correctly spelled, for a change) "Nietzscheans". Since said remarks identify me with, and impute to me, a certain interpretation of N. requiring qualification as to my own perspective, I'd like to examine the paragraph, point by point, in avoidance of confusion of Nietzsche, Hunter, and NeoNietzsche with one another.]
Nietzscheans
As everyone here knows by now, NeoNietzsche is a passionate admirer of Friedrich Nietzsche….
Though not to be confused with an *uncritical* admirer, since I recognize the unsystematic, self-contradictory, and epistemologically-questionable aspects of some of his work
…and subscribes to a peculiar interpretation of his theories.
One that I believe is courageously forthright amidst bowdlerizations of N. that permit discussion of N. without violation of PC proscriptions. And I would be pleased to respond to translation of “peculiar” into “specious” if some supportive specifics are supplied.
He believes in a caste system (warrior, cleric, peasant) and sees himself as part of the elect few who should rule in a White Nationalist ethnostate.
This is incorrect. The caste system is an aspect of the past that must be understood for its illustration of politico-economic principles that are inescapable. For the future, I am hopeful that a well-advised, pro-White, military dictatorship will save your bacon. I will be dead well before that happens, if it happens, probably around the time of a mid-century global military catastrophe.
Following Nietzsche, NN believes everyone has an essential orientation, master or slave, dominant or submissive,…
To speak of “submissive” is incorrect. Slaves may well be rebellious and full of “ressentiment” - against which sentiment Nietzsche preached as conducive to a slave mentality. The contrast is, rather, between a realistic view of reality (that of the predator/warrior/master who rules with violence and in relative prosperity) and a delusional and mendacious perspective born of the prey/peasant/slave’s contemplation of the diabolical nature of reality in so situating him with respect to the ‘evil” master and of his refusal to acknowledge it as perpetual/inevitable.
…and that different moral systems correspond to this primordial mammalian division.
The correspondence is rather as to the contrast described above.
As an advocate of “master morality,” he would abolish liberal democracy…
This would be to abolish an illusion. The elimination of a plutocratic theocracy would be the objective of substance.
…and confer elite status upon the “higher types” who are naturally born to rule.
Not really. I don’t know who would be doing the “conferring” and where one is going to find and qualify “higher types”. The only future hope is military government - a mildly meritocratic institution in present times.
The only way to end a debate with the mendatious jew is to simply say, “You have been discovered. You are a jew.”
You have been discovered. You are a lying sexual pervert.
@Anthony
>mature, well adjusted, adult compassion
>The jews are the race of malevoence, of malice.
Yes, sir.
God forbid perverts like the neo-nietzscheans ever get their S&M empire of “superhumans” and “slaves” or potheads forget to protect the homeland because they “got high”.
Well, intoxicants have always been a part of Aryan and European culture. Drinking soma or beer or wine never stopped them before, and very often helped them on their way, as reflected in hymns and historical accounts. The Germans lost because of Hitler’s monomania, not because Germans like to drink a lot. Don’t be obtuse for the sake of the feeling you get from browbeating others for a pretty harmless activity, and one with ample precedent in the history of our kind. Which is not to excuse modern potheads and the entire pothead subculture.
Mark,
WN tend to be anti-marijuana, although in my opinion it is just posturing.
Sure, but let’s not discount its deeper root in tuff-guy American puritanism. Note the long paean to the harmlessness of alcohol, and utter fatality of marijuana, by Felim. This is cowboy mentality — immensely ironic considering the original cowboys, the Aryans, certainly drank something like (though undoubtedly stronger than) the Indian bhang, and probably contributed to the cultivation of P. somniferum for its narcotic effects. Hence the largest poppy-growing region in the world today is in the Helmand valley of Afghanistan, quite close to historical “Ariana”, and the location of the Vedic river Sarasvati.
I don’t believe guys like White Non-Con are merely posturing. On the contrary, the eagerness to perpetuate silly kwan attitudes, and bully others in their enforcement, is very obvious in the type. Boozing is ok, toking is hippie, nigger, dirty, stupid, etc. As a “lifestyle”, of course, neither is defensible, and conflating all use of marijuana with the hippie lifestyle is obviously fallacious.
Fact is, this type doesn’t care what the Indo-Europeans were doing — because they’ve never bothered to read or think about it, as in a way they’re to not do, because it would threaten their militantly “egalitarian” racialism : we’re not Indo-Europeans, and as the “pervert” NeoNietzsche points out, the Indo-Europeans weren’t romanticists of the soil and peasantry like the Nazis and Soviets — they were a predatory race which exploited settled races, most of them the very same European stock from which we’re drawn, “enfranchising” them with Aryan speech, myth and folkways. The last gasp of this spirit in Europe was the late German bid to swallow Europe whole. In the East it is presently being shot to death by the Pakistani army in South Waziristan.
It’s no wonder the aforementioned doesn’t care about that stuff. It’s too cerebral, too removed from us in real culture. We’re not Aryans. We’re not warriors. We’re kwans. To the puritan imagination of the old kwans, smoking cannabis (or opium) was a strange slothful cop-out from fealty to the American Way; this attitude would be carried over to the Inevitable Reich, where such fealty (enforced participation / subjection) would take on perverse forms as under the Soviets and other Eastern despotisms. Hence whomever’s preference for the draconian measures against cannabis-smugglers in Japan and Southeast Asia.
Felim,
Marijuana is a disgusting and dangerous drug.
This is clearly over the top. You have a strong personal grudge against cannabis and its users, and that’s fine, but in a rational society we couldn’t continue this bizarre hypochondriac attitude toward the smoking of what, ultimately, is just a sweet-smelling plant. You’re channeling kwa, not reason.
The myth that marijuana is no more dangerous than alcohol has been aggressively promoted by the international drug cartels since the 1960s.
Well, I would hope that in the Inevitable White Nationalist Reich of Soren Renner, we wouldn’t worry ourselves so much about being “safe”. A masculine society, run by whites, should consider abandoning hypochondriac attitudes and regulation. If the object is to keep up the babying of our kind in the interest of “being safe” and punishing “disgusting” malefactors for infraction against inherited values, your Reich will not have advanced much beyond the spirit of kwa. In many respects your Reich will still be kwa. There’s room for a little enlightenment even in an ideology which has fetishized “the Enlightenment” as a demon that has destroyed the West.
The rest of your post, while exhaustive, was also exhaustingly wrong-headed. You make alcohol sound like a pleasant diuretic, while all the ills of cannabis take us back to Reefer Mania. No argument from me that overuse of cannabis leads to a kind of idiocy: but please, don’t pretend alcoholics aren’t much worse socially than potheads. Booze reduces much if not most of our kind to white trash — our men to slobs and bullies, our women to whores. You’re whole argument is an exercise in distortion. I don’t think even White Non-Con will agree with your absurd portrait of alcohol consumption as an easy harmless affair.
The hangover that lasts a day or so after heavy drinking is caused by poisons generated by alcohol in the body, not by the alcohol itself.
Which “poisons” (humors?), of course, would not be “generated” if alcohol were not immoderately consumed, as it often is. Ah what’s the point.
Anyway, conflating all consumption of booze or use of cannabis with CHRONIC DEBILITATING USE is nothing but moralistic lobbying got from the Amurrcan narrative — so to answer my joking question, that’s why cannabis would remain outlawed in the Inevitable Jeffersonian Reich.
Euro,
(I have not yet read his Imperium Europa.)
Ironic for a book billed as having “Changed The World”.
*they’re right to not do
One that I believe is courageously forthright amidst bowdlerizations of N. that permit discussion of N. without violation of PC proscriptions.
Walter “I didn’t know I’m a Jew” Kaufmann.
The only future hope is military government - a mildly meritocratic institution in present times.
I too am a fan of Pervez Musharraf.
@uh
No, I do not care about white people drinking or smoking pot.
I care about freeing our country and culture from degenerate Jews.
But I shouldn’t blame cowboys. It’s known that cowboys, during the Gold Rush, partook of the Chinaman’s opium. The cowboy still had one foot in the Old World and could assimilate new experiences without the urban bureaucratic desire to outlaw and punish.
uh ~ What have you been smoking?
uh:”Booze reduces much if not most of our kind to white trash — our men to slobs and bullies, our women to whores.”
True…in THE PASSING Madison Grant wrote:
Also: has alcohol-peddling Jewry intentionally turned Sweden in to a nation of effete liquor-swilling drunks?
I am not anti-alcohol or a Prohibitionist, as I much enjoy good ales and occasionally a bit of wine myself in moderation (no hard liquor though). However, overconsumption of alcohol is indeed too frequent amongst too many Whites worldwide, and it is very detrimental to White culture. Jews have long been major producers and distributors of alcohol in many White nations (in the USA, Canada, Australia, etc); for instance, by using alcohol they were able to keep the Slavs of Eastern Europe pacified and under their thumb for centuries by keeping them perma-drunk and thus weak/stupid with endless amounts of cheap vodka.
Like beer or wine, marijuana use is OK too in moderation, maybe once in a blue moon. However, its use is pretty rampant amongst far too many North American Whites in modern times, mostly the bunches of bored White suburbanites. This constant haze isn’t good for the advancement of the White race nor White individuals, so the overuse of it should be discouraged. Overconsumption of anything isn’t good — everything in moderation is the best policy.
If drugs are to be used by well-meaning pro-White activists/White nationalists seeking to advance White interests worldwide, they ought to be these newish “nootropic” drugs which are basically legal low-dose stimulants/speed. A lot of people in the modern West use them, especially in the media, business, politics, academia, and so on. They are a much safer alternative to cocaine, very strong illegal speed, or other powerful stimulants. The degenerate Jews in the cities, the media, and academia are hopped up on them 24/7 just as some unfortunate White American rural-dwellers enjoy the crystal-meth — the mass-use of these legal and illegal stimulant drugs by degenerate urban-Jewry is one of their “dirty little secrets.”
All you have to do to get them is to have a doctor prescribe them to you via your faking of ADD/ADHD. If you do, start with the lowest time-released dose available (research it), a child/teen dosage, and take only one a day when you wake up. They are semi-addictive and if you take them for long periods you will form a dependency and partially deplete or tax natural levels of important neurotransmitters. Low-dose nootropics, or “cognitive-enhacing drugs,” have been tentatively endorsed by modern medical science, see: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v456/n7223/full/456702a.html
I took them a few times in college because someone told me they were good for writing long/boring term papers overnight at the last minute (they indeed are), but I don’t take them anymore. I likely will though as I get older and my mind and body starts naturally slowing down with age.
More from the traditional agrarian/pastoral American anti-urban decentralists:
Even that Jew-stooge FDR still had a bit of traditional White America left in him:
Read some more related material @ http://xroads.virginia.edu/~MA01/White/anthology/agrarian.html
Why do you think they call it Hitler’s Marching Powder?
Brilliant post by Felim. Marijuana — like cocaine and coffee — is a foreigner, an upstart. It has no place in a white ethnostate. Our people need to go back to the good old STRENGTHENING beverages of our forefathers — ale and light wines.
It’s not like libertarians, lotus eaters, and layabouts will have to really be dealt with by a traditional, disciplined, focused, and robust movement. Populations that refuse to breed, feed, and lead future generations deal with themselves. Modernity is self-correcting.
The “War on Drugs” is overwhelmingly a war on ethnic youth gangs under a politically correct flag. My feeling is that manufacture, distribution, and usage of drugs outside of the pharmacy cartel would be best dealt with as a misdemeanor issue and as a health issue. Make it just illegal enough to keep it from the public eye, refrain from playing cops ‘n robbers with them, and offer help to the ones who request it.
Our people need to go back to the good old STRENGTHENING beverages of our forefathers — ale and light wines.
Cannabis is native to eastern Europe and the Himalayas — precisely the expanse inhabited by our earliest forefathers. Before our kind was making ale and wine (neither of which have a reflex in Proto-Indo-European, by the way), they were crushing up C. ruderalis and sativa and straining the mash into cups, possibly even inhaling the smoke in ritual.
Anyway, one hopes that in the Inevitable Ethno-Reich, wherein all able-bodied men & women will obv. we part of a vast standing army to be kept on its toes by Captainchaos at all times, that even there, we’ll be permitted some down-time from the ruthless nationalizing of all life when we can do more or less what we please. Or is that not the intention? I thought the ethnostate fantasy was supposed to be about, you know, greater freedom for whites. Why not permit moderate (or intelligent) use of narcotics into your fantasy Reich?
they ought to be these newish “nootropic” drugs which are basically legal low-dose stimulants/speed
Well, that would be a good idea if racial propaganda really should or could be the whole content of our lives — which it can’t, for the same reason I said we can’t rival the Jews in media — or if propaganda of that sort were really effective, which it isn’t. Never in all history has a worldview, precisely counter to everything the populace knows, been transmitted by spectacle of drug use.
They are a much safer alternative to cocaine,
Very many Europeans are recreational cokeheads, and they manage. You see, this stuff is produced outside the ideal sphere of white geopolitical control — Afghanistan, Turkey, South America. In your Fantasy Rennerian Reich you couldn’t restrict some flow of product without in effect making your own citizens prisoners and/or controlling production centers. The reason those dink states are so harsh with smugglers and users is that their borders are so porous and their officialdom corrupt. India’s nominally a dry state, but it doesn’t stop production of moonshine or smuggling by Muslims over the Khyber Pass.
The degenerate Jews in the cities, the media, and academia are hopped up on them 24/7 just as some unfortunate White American rural-dwellers enjoy the crystal-meth — the mass-use of these legal and illegal stimulant drugs by degenerate urban-Jewry is one of their “dirty little secrets.”
Yea, no disagreement there. You understand I’m not arguing for any of that — just making a case for a more enlightened policy in the Coming Inevitable Reich. In any case people will do what they’re used to doing, and at this level of population management we couldn’t hope or expect to make pre-1945 Germans of Americans, nor should we want to — which is why you would have to accommodate yourself to prevalent appetites in some way.
Make it just illegal enough to keep it from the public eye, refrain from playing cops ‘n robbers with them, and offer help to the ones who request it.
Very sensible, as your suggestions tend to be. All I’m saying is that the “lotus-eaters and layabouts” shouldn’t be shot. Let’s be reasonable, yanno? Shooting potheads is worse than kwa. The White Nationalist fantasy hasn’t yet descended to social minutiae like this, but it’s precisely the minutiae which determine the character of an empire. Presumably, High Guru Renner will, when not broadcasting his pig riddles, not want His Highnesses Guessedworker and Wintermute to spend too much on the enforcement of a blanket policy on narcotics — or in detaining, re-educating, etc. perpetrators. That’s a lot money and work. Seems like you could cut out a good chunk of that money and work by admitting cannabis isn’t as bad as meth, or booze industry / culture. Conserve strength for more meaningful social projects, no? Shoot some kid for lighting up a joint and I’m preeeetty sure your Inevitable Reich will collapse as quickly and easily as you all imagine it will come.
uh ~ What have you been smoking?
Your mother’s twat.
uh,
“Anyway, one hopes that in the Inevitable Ethno-Reich . . . we’ll be permitted some down-time from the ruthless nationalizing of all life when we can do more or less what we please.”
Exactly so! That is why I am in favour of the use of ale as the staple drink of the nation, in place of tea and coffee. Ale has been praised by our best poets for its sterling and life-enhancing qualities. It’s been the staple drink of our people for ages. It was thanks to ale and its life-enhancing properties that our ancestral country enjoyed the title of ‘Merrie England’ during the Middle Ages, an era characterised by cheerfulness, high spirits, and picturesque country festivals among our lower classes. Good Queen Bess consumed almost exclusively ale and bread from cradle to grave (the bread of the Tudor period, by the way, was also of excellent quality).
“I thought the ethnostate fantasy was supposed to be about, you know, greater freedom for whites.”
Freedom, if it has any meaning at all, is the state of living under a bondage that is compatible and harmonises with the most vital instincts of one’s being. Our people need to escape from a bondage that is uncongenial to their deepest instincts — egalitarian democracy — in order to fall into a bondage that harmonises with their instincts.
The desire for “freedom”, in the sense of being able to pick and choose whatever one wants to do, is invariably associated with weak and useless personalities. Strong men do not “choose” anything. They have no choice. They are driven to their actions by an iron necessity.
The proper role of government in a healthy nation is that of a parent. It exists in order to set a “good tone” to the nation, to ensure that the people are healthy, tasteful, and sound in instinct. Our people have been deprived of that wisdom and guidance from above which only an aristocracy of taste can provide.
“Why not permit moderate (or intelligent) use of narcotics into your fantasy Reich?”
Why not permit moderate use of narcotics for our children? Because children are irresponsible. Most people can’t handle their whisky, never mind marijuana, cocaine, and heroine. Ideally, the use of narcotics would require a license, the standards for which would be so high as to exclude 99 percent of the population. But that is not a practical solution to the drug problem. A better solution is to ban the drugs altogether, give psychiatric assistance to drug abusers, and publicly execute those peddlers of insidious poisons, the drug dealers.
Freedom, if it has any meaning at all, is the state of living under a bondage that is compatible and harmoni[z]es with the most vital instincts of one’s being. Our people need to escape from a bondage that is uncongenial to their deepest instincts — egalitarian democracy — in order to fall into a bondage that harmoni[z]es with their instincts. (Yosemite)
Beautifully formulated and expressed!
A new “superhuman” thought for the day!
When the restoration comes, it will manifest as an absurd parody of America’s golden age, as an explosion of fifties superficialities and kitsch. The National Socialist rejection of modernity was more of a Prussian bureaucracy than the original thing. The Russian rejection of modernity has its own quasi-czar and is returning to its traditional priesthood (Eastern Orthodox Church). The American rejection of modernity will be more of a fifties sitcom than a fifties sitcom.
It will consist largely of superficialities. The past can’t be duplicated, only parodied. But that will be the zeitgeist. The redeemer will be more like Bob Dobbs than Adolf Hitler and the priesthood riding a wave of religious rebirth dwarfing the previous ones will try to impose a regime of constitutionality, limited government, and well-paid factory jobs for all.
In the future regime, people who say things like “drug dealers will be publicly executed” and propose solutions to the drug problem like “ban drugs” will be looked at like they’re stupid. They will be driven by an iron necessity to do so.
So, who here is going to sign up to fight to install a totalitarian state managed by obsessive compulsive control freaks? Oh yeah, they’re WHITE control freaks!
It would be well worth risking my life to reach that promised land.
But all kidding aside, NN has clarified how the master caste will gain power, in a military coup. Then the masters will impose their sadistic will (no doubt cackling with glee and counting their shekels… dollars… doubloons?) on the slave caste - the American people.
Now, am I the only one who sees a tiny problem with this utopian fantasy, this wonderful dream?
How do two million soldiers subdue 150 million armed civilians? Armed civilians with automobiles? (see Buda’s Wagon) Armed civilians with no concept of the divine right of kings or anyone else?
The American military can’t even subdue Iraq or Afghanistan.
If a totalitarian were not in effect, White gangsters would fill the niche once occupied by non-White gangs. We’ve been there before with Prohibition.
But all kidding aside, NN has clarified how the master caste will gain power, in a military coup. Then the masters will impose their sadistic will (no doubt cackling with glee and counting their shekels… dollars… doubloons?) on the slave caste - the American people. (Oldright)
I’ll leave this Crayola Creation, as it stands, as a testament.
Let’s hope that the gods *do* take pity on little children and a nation of ‘tards. (I finally yield to resonance with “uh’s” formulation.)
Now off to the Fortress of Solitude.
OldRight:
You seem to have a fear of a “master caste” coming to power. What makes you think you wouldn’t or couldn’t be a part of it? You’ve shown enough concern for your people to come onto this board and post, this during a time when most people are too drugged by their televisions to care. That shows forethought. Now, I assume you’re White. With your forethought, I also assume you’d strive to be a landholder, if that was a prerequisite to being able to vote.
Which brings us back to the point of this article. The major question we need to look at when determining who a ruling class is, is who a citizen is. There needs to be a clear demarcation. If you cannot determine who your people are, you cannot govern in their interests.
Land ownership and race tie a man to a nation just as a renting existence and a dysgenic populace distances a man from a nation. Land ownership, if required for a citizen to become a voting citizen, will become highly sought after and hard to obtain. The obtaining of land will prove that one values the right to vote. (That being said, there are details which need to be addressed first, such as land ownership by foreigners and corporations.)
Now, not everyone is wise enough to govern a nation. Some people aren’t wise enough to govern themselves. People will naturally sift according to their abilities. Intellectually shallow or incurious Whites, if given the right to vote, are libel to be tricked or fooled by forces outside the race. Turn on the television and you will see these forces at work. Jealousy and mistrust is inflamed in the under-achieving class and directed at the over-achieving class. The end result is that both sets –the entirety of the race– collide and destroy each other.
There is no reason for the average 400-pound WalMart shopper to be able to vote. Its cruel to assume that such a person should be burdened with the running of a state. Such people, through their gluttony, have proven that they are unfit to rule themselves, let alone their neighbors. The same is true for the lotus eaters, those whose ambition was with destroyed marijuana, alcohol, video games, etc. I don’t think anyone on this forum is seriously calling for these people to be shot. What I hope they are calling for is to let them fall to their natural station in society.
As to your earlier statement that you didn’t want to become a serf, ask yourself, are you a serf now? Do you truly own your own home, or like many Whites, do you rent or pay a mortgage? Think about it. Your leaders are Jewish or directly controlled by them. Your children are influenced by Jewish-authored textbooks and media. Your vote counts for nothing. The nation is not governed in your people’s interest. The national wealth you inherited from your forefathers is being squandered in overseas wars for Israel. Your ancestors are defamed. You carry a blood libel.
How could you be more of a slave in a white aristocracy?
NeoNietzsche wishes to free our people from Bondage so they may be delivered unto Discipline.
I would ask the Jeffersonian folkists posting on this topic to consider who Jefferson was. He, and the other founding fathers, were either aristocrats or aspiring aristocrats. They were the “best” (in Greek “aristoi”) of the people in the colonies at the time, and through their wisdom, lead the whole of the people to victory.
Now consider this, the population of the colonies was roughly 2 million people during the revolution. Today we have roughly 180 million Whites in America. The pool of high IQ Whites is greater than it’s ever been. While intelligence doesn’t equal wisdom, a quick mind applied over a lifetime does much to make one wise. The problem we have today is that these Whites are not heard or are not educated for leadership. They are not heard because they’ve been excluded from politics via Jewish tribal nepotism and repulsed by the utter inanity of current intellectual dogma. They’ve been educated incorrectly because they have little or no familiarity with the cannon of Western Civilization.
There are thousands of Jeffersons in our midst. They just need to be put in the proper place, with the proper knowledge, and with the proper social function to enact our liberation.
…but I have the feeling our current iteration of founding fathers is instead busy writing menial code and pleading cases for our indigent classes.
National Socialism and Nietzschean Ubermenchery are sufficiently discordant with the historic American experience - certainly as inculcated presently - to find resonance with contemporary White Americans and past American populist movement which are and have been ‘Kwanish.
JTaverner, you’re not saying anything I would disagree with. The universal franchise is overrated. But limiting who can vote isn’t what NN is proposing. He’s proposing slavery. When he says that he intends to be the master and that I am to be a slave (and yes, the crackpot posted a little list of slaves with me on it) I take him at his word.
Naturally I’ve mixed in some humor with my criticism since his posturing is more than a little ridiculous, but that sort of thinking does turn up in WN circles from time to time and it needs to be stamped out.
It shows a misunderstanding of what white men are. We make lousy slaves, and as I’ve said more than once we’re not in the position of disarmed serfs. Even the jews have more sense than NN. They understand that whites are too dangerous to keep as slaves, that’s why they’re working on replacing us with non-whites and promoting miscegenation.
If a totalitarian were not in effect, White gangsters would fill the niche once occupied by non-White gangs. We’ve been there before with Prohibition.
A bunch of them were Jewish gangsters no?
Exactly so! That is why I am in favour of the use of ale as the staple drink of the nation, in place of tea and coffee.
But the question is, will I be shot for preferring tea to ale.
Ale has been praised by our best poets for its sterling and life-enhancing qualities.
Maybe, but I imagine most of the best poems in our language were writ by pots of hot tea.
Strong men do not “choose” anything. They have no choice. They are driven to their actions by an iron necessity.
Ok. I feel you, really. But I still don’t think people should be shot or jailed for using cannabis. It’s an absurd Reich that feels “lotus eaters and layabouts” are worth such stringent measures. Stamp out hippie subculture, but the outlawing of plants is unworthy of a great republic.
Most people can’t handle their whisky, never mind marijuana, cocaine, and heroine.
Which is to assert that marijuana is worse than whisky, and only just better than cocaine.
Ideally, the use of narcotics would require a license, the standards for which would be so high as to exclude 99 percent of the population.
Ah. So the Inevitably Coming Rennerian Pig Riddle Saturday Reich will involve still more waiting and applying and licensing. Do shoot me forthwith when it comes to pass. I’ll make you all a nice resumé of my sins against White Nationalist Orthodoxy.
@OldRight
So, who here is going to sign up to fight to install a totalitarian state managed by obsessive compulsive control freaks? Oh yeah, they’re WHITE control freaks!
Now puff out your chest, and sigh manfully about subordinating yourself to the control freaks.
were writ by pots of hot tea.
LOL. Next to, obviously.
Do shoot me forthwith when it comes to pass.
I’m not gonna say I hate to agree with ‘uh’ since I haven’t really pegged him yet, and although I certainly am slightly reluctant to do so, I find myself agreeing nonetheless.
Most WN’s throw around references to Tolkein’s LOTR all the time but seem to conveniently forget that the Wiz was constantly smoking that Shire herb.
[Can't let this falsehood pass:]
But limiting who can vote isn’t what NN is proposing. He’s proposing slavery. When he says that he intends to be the master and that I am to be a slave (and yes, the crackpot posted a little list of slaves with me on it) I take him at his word. (Oldright)
(Post “Some Changes” - Comment #135:)
So, our cast of characters under Hunter’s Big Tent now includes:
1) Erich von Stroheim (myself, NN, in caricature)
2) Antonius Cincinnatus
3) Oldright the Oldwhite
4) Lena the Cleana
5) *
Not a word about slavery, implied or otherwise - on a list including myself. Incompetence or mendacity? In any case: someone not to be relied upon for the truth.
JTaverner: “My political ideal leans toward that of an enlightened aristocracy.
Voting would be limited to male, gentile, founding stock landholders of at least 35 years of age”
I’m not saying you are wrong, but I think today’s politicians are mostly non-Jewish men who own their houses and are older than 35. Even so, they have not been able to prevent the immigration disaster. At the same time, I guess most white men under 35 who still do not own their house wish the immigration policy was reversed.
When we have a revolution against today’s destructive policies, it will be purely based on ideology, uniting every one who is pro-white, whether they are rich or poor, young or old. The priority will be to neutralize the anti-whites. It won’t be done according to the rules of democracy. The pro-white ideology will surely remain dominant for a long time, and we will have plenty of time to think of a good system to ensure our prolonged existence.
For the moment, we need a way to take power, not to keep it. The anti-whites are the ones who need to do some thinking about how to rig the system and ensure that the white majority remains powerless until it becomes a small minority.
When we have a revolution against today’s destructive policies, it will be purely based on ideology, uniting every one who is pro-white, whether they are rich or poor, young or old.
I’m not sure that something that encompasses so many vastly different ideologies (pro-white) can be considered an ideology.
@Danielj
I chose the wrong word. I will rephrase: When we have a revolution against today’s destructive policies, it will be purely based on an absence of ideology. I think it makes more sense that way !
For white people, being “pro-white”, caring for one’s own people, is not an ideology but a natural position. (On the other hand, today’s anti-white activism sounds to me like an ideology.) We don’t need a particular ideology, we need to listen to our instinct. What we should expect from white people is a natural reaction against their displacement. I hope at some point, in the face of danger, a natural alliance will emerge among white people, and a few rebellions will occur, that will lead to a kind of revolution. I expect there will be some community of spirit among us, old and young, rich and poor, and I hope the revolutionary spirit will make it easy to take the necessary measures.
It is only in the second stage that we will divide along different ideologies and different theories of governement.
it will be purely based on an absence of ideology.
Sounds wild. I can see it going from revolution and absence of ideology to the strictest ideology imaginable and its ruthless enforcement by the control freaks. In short, Animal Farm.
See the pigs sloshing angrily in their sties
In the Pig Riddle Reich
In the Pig Riddle Reich
You won’t know whence the bullet flies
In the Pig Riddle Reich
In the Pig Riddle Reich
Guru Renner, Big Von, the Captain — all those guys
In the Pig Riddle Reich
In the Pig Riddle Reich
‘ll have ya by the balls, ‘ll punish who defies
In the Pig Riddle Reich
In the Pig Riddle Reich
Know the answer? the correct line? You get one try
In the Pig Riddle Reich
In the Pig Riddle Reich
Uh,
“But the question is, will I be shot for preferring tea to ale.”
Of course not. First of all, tea and coffee are minor poisons compared with marijuana and cocaine. Second, I have never advocated capital punishment for drug users - they require psychiatric assistance - I only favour capital punishment for the dealers of drugs.
“Maybe, but I imagine most of the best poems in our language were writ by pots of hot tea.”
No, tea is a relatively recent import. It was banned by the Tudors (who had always represented the healthiest instincts of our people, in doctrine as in diet). Our best poets, leaders, and men of letters consumed ale.
“Which is to assert that marijuana is worse than whisky, and only just better than cocaine.”
Correct. Marijuana is worse than alcohol, although spirits such as whisky are always associated with ages of decadence. Healthy nations, from Greece and Egypt to Tudor England, consumed light wines and ales.
Second, I have never advocated capital punishment for drug users - they require psychiatric assistance -
How creepy and unimaginative.
Marijuana is worse than alcohol,
There you have it.
White anything is better than what we have now.
I would like to see the time and energy here being directed into finding fault with each other instead directed into finding faults in our enemies.
NN:
So, our cast of characters under Hunter’s Big Tent now includes:
1) Erich von Stroheim (myself, NN, in caricature)
2) Antonius Cincinnatus
3) Oldright the Oldwhite
4) Lena the Cleana
5) *
Not a word about slavery, implied or otherwise - on a list including myself.
For some reason I didn’t interpret that as an endorsement of my upper caste status. However if you’d like to set the record straight and admit that I am your master and submit an application to be one of my groveling minions I’d be glad to put you on the waiting list, but be warned, when adding to my entourage I’m inclined to favor fertile vixens over embittered cranks.
Mr. Wallace,
I appreciate your blog. In regard to “Who Should Rule”, I think that you should consider the most practical method, rather than the theoretically best method. The most practical organization of the government would simply be to re-create that of the US from an earlier time, perhaps the year 1900, for example (with a few changes, such as re-establishing the nation’s first immigration law, for White Christians of good character). Why?
1) Your governmental system will have roots, and White Americans will be able to identify it, and be more likely to want to support it.
2) A nation organized this way comes with a long and proud history, and will have the loyalty of White Americans.
3) We know that the system works, as it has been tried and proven (rather than an untested system based on theory).
If you insist on attempting to form a new and untested form of government, you are guaranteed to turn off most of the people that have their own ideas. Therefore, choosing something that almost all White Americans can agree with (something from our great past) is probably the best course, even if it is not theoretically the optimum system of government.
I would like to see the time and energy here being directed into finding fault with each other instead directed into finding faults in our enemies.
You and every other featherless biped lighter than a paper bag. God knows our enemy could use being put on the defensive every now and again. But what we are seeing is par for the course for this “movement”: Partisanship and confusion. I expect that our enemies are whooping with laughter at how ineffectual we are with our circular firing squads. Here we are faced with the ultimate destruction of our people and still we cannot find common ground. It is too absurd.
For some reason I didn’t interpret that as an endorsement of my upper caste status.
Someone took it, rather, as a license to cretinously misrepresent another participant (with whom that someone has issues) to others who would not trouble to check the facts. I went back to check because I knew that I had neither written, implied, nor intended as was alleged:
But limiting who can vote isn’t what NN is proposing. He’s proposing slavery. When he says that he intends to be the master and that I am to be a slave (and yes, the crackpot posted a little list of slaves with me on it) I take him at his word.
My “word”:
So, our cast of characters under Hunter’s Big Tent now includes:
1) Erich von Stroheim (myself, NN, in caricature)
2) Antonius Cincinnatus
3) Oldright the Oldwhite
4) Lena the Cleana
5) *
Perhaps someone’s own words shed some light on the difficulty that someone is having with the truth in this instance:
NN ~ You want my response? Here it is: Fuck you. I’m not going to let you control the discussion here. You’re a pseudo-intellectual poseur, and possibly some sort of crypto-Jew, and I’ve called you on it. Now fuck off.
Here we are faced with the ultimate destruction of our people and still we cannot find common ground. It is too absurd (Mark IJsseldijk)
But well-precedented in history, due to class, tribal, and other differences *within* “racial” groups.
We are witnessing an exemplary and unfortunately necessary class division here, since contamination with Volkisch stupidities cannot be permitted to fuck up yet another effort on our behalf (should it miraculously gain any traction). Better that we get some fundamentals straight, in the beginning, or drop the whole project as a fatuity.
There will be no common ground until divisions are made. Take the turdlet. When OldRight mentioned the AK-47 turdlet started running around like chicken little going on about how him and the other superhumans need the military. What was it, “pay the soldiers and forget about the citizens” or some such, forgetting all historical perspective of time and place and results. However if they want merceneries the jews have deeper pockets and if they want to entice them with promises of plunder and rapine well the jews can beat them there too. The only way to attract military personal is through a call to the return of White values which include loyalty to home and hearth, duty and solidarity to racial kin.
SO we see the fatuity making things up as he goes along and when the threat of white men with guns rears its head, the fatuity jumps to the next voodoo drum beat.
Prozium mentioned a web-site for the young for them to discuss politics with anarchists et al. Well I must say most youth are not interested in such things. But the elite! The elite god-damn it! Having abstract concepts but no real world experience brings jack-shit to the table I’m afraid. Nothing teaches like experience.
A better thought would be, as someone said, a distribution system for products made by young people. A web forum where young people can shoot the shit and also post their art, literature and music, the cream of which can be turned into product. The problem remains distribution, and the money to produce the product (recording studios, printing presses). It can’t be all White Power crap or even a large percentage, but real substantive creations by White kids for White kids.
So money again becomes an issue (at the start as done well it could soon pay for itself).
Or you could just set up a forum for intellectual masturbation.
Fundamental Number One:
Unless and until the armed forces of Greater Judea are neutralized by the internecine and anarchic foreign intervention of other such forces, the alternatives for any political entity on the continent are to dominate or be dominated. In particular, the present leaders of those resident forces have explicitly stated and have shown, with armed might, that an ethno-state other than Israel will not be permitted where those forces can be delivered to a theater lacking comparable counter-force.
NN ~
You’re simply not the upper caste sort. Not now, not ever, old chap. Deal with it. You’re thoroughly middle-class.
The same applies to your chum uh. Both of you, I suspect, are typical fat, twinkie-inhaling Americans with no military experience.
If an elite shall emerge, it will be through the exercise of war. But, we’re not at that stage now. So stop your silly posing.
Hey doos, stick to polishing your nazi jack-boots.
I used to pity Louis Farrakhan for having a constituency of relatively low racial quality to instruct and to lead.
Little did I suspect…
I bet you put your framed Emory diploma on your wall.
You American proles amaze me. Totally middle-class.
Q: How many Nazi uniforms and jack boots do you own?
“Fundamental Number One:”
Yes, so long as a critical mass of Whites are loyal to the System any attempt at creating exclusive, sustainable living space for our people on the North American continent is foredoomed because it is fellow Whites that would be indispensable in crushing any attempt at said. Any talk of armed resistance is silly in light of a lack of political and intellectual infrastructure which is essential to giving form and purpose to a movement for White survival, not to mention gaining enough supporters.
And explicit displays of National Socialist regalia and apologetics for a general audience is self-evidently self-defeating at this time. Frankly, we don’t need to recapitulate National Socialism in whole in order to win.
Arguably, Kevin MacDonald has done more to threaten Jewish power in the West than all those that donned the Swastika in latter days. Over a period of about four months, two years ago, I looked over the content of Vdare, Amren and MacDonald’s work and my world view was transformed. That is essentially how we will swell our ranks, by explaining White people’s interests to them as we dispense the facts via viable venues which we need to create. Can you deny that NN?
And explicit displays of National Socialist regalia and apologetics for a general audience is self-evidently self-defeating at this time. Frankly, we don’t need to recapitulate National Socialism in whole in order to win.
The leading “and” suggests that this remark is directed my way.
And I again say that I am not interested in (and do not knowingly confront) “general audiences,” and I assume that this and other venues of my participation are of more specialized interest - otherwise I agree with the statement, where the defeat to be avoided is measured in terms of popularity. Nor do I envision or recommend the “recapitulation” you mention. But I will not cravenly protest that “I’m no Nazi,” or decline to bear its symbol, in the event that I am identified with that orientation.
Can you deny that[,] NN? (Cc)
In the sense that I do not anticipate much “swelling” or consider such of much consequence.
Admiral,
What are you so haughty about? Why are you so contemptuous of the middle class? Are you Ivy League or something? Or do you just try to pretend like you are?
“In the sense that I do not [think it likely that there will be] much “swelling” [in our ranks] or consider such of much consequence.”
That your own efforts met with failure, and that your (potentially wrong) conception of the sufficient conditions for racial survival may not be met, does not mean that other conceptions and proposed conditions for achieving the goal we all hold in common will be found wanting. With that said, I personally find the material displayed at your site thought provoking, and appreciate your efforts in doing what you can as you see fit.
That is essentially how we will swell our ranks, by explaining White people’s interests to them as we dispense the facts via viable venues which we need to create. Can you deny that NN?
You are projecting your experience onto the mass (”solipsism”). Simple as that. There is no evidence, anywhere, that the mass is or has ever been more interested in facts than sensational lies, even with the best means of disseminating facts. To think otherwise, to believe it can be otherwise, is unscientific.
“Talk of armed revolution” may be silly, but at least it represents a more forthright impulse than this belief in social miracles. If I had to choose to play along with either of these fantasies, I’d go with the “armed revolutionaries” over those holding their breath for “white media”, “collapse”, etc.
The underlying problem here — and in all those who come to White Nationalism — is that you can’t accept your experience as exceptional because that belies the collectivist imagery of White Nationalist ideology: to validate the exception is to vitiate the idea of a collective. That is the corrupt dialectic uniting you all at MR. You are exceptions posing as “majoritarians”. To fulfill the enfranchisement fantasy you must imagine ways to impose your exceptional experience of disenfranchisement upon the mass, precisely as the Jews have colonized the minds of the mass with the alienated psychpathology of the “Other” through handsome propaganda, while downplaying their neurotic group orthodoxy. But this you cannot do because the Jews have already done it. Once the social virus is released, it never really dies (cf. Christianity), the mass is “colonized” for all time and no competing “metanarrative” can ever really challenge it. History isn’t the story of truth unfolding itself in the life of the mass; it is the story of error.
Stronza: OK. If the only marijuana available were the old fashioned 1% THC kind, would you change your mind about jailing users & sellers?
Doing more than just tilling chernozem? LOL.
Bernard (to Admiral): What are you so haughty about?
Mayn’t it be that he’s British? They’ve always had an instinctual repugnance to Nietzsche, or “the nietzschean”. They used to sing this dumb little song about never being slaves or some shit. Anytime Aryans try to lift themselves out of historical error (to cite myself) and reach for greater, Britons are there to mock them down to their level. Guessedworker is an estimable break from type.
You must be keeping your head up your ass if you don’t think the white mass doesn’t feel disenfranchised. The problem with your abstract is it discounts race and racial feeling. You think we can’t do a jew because the jew already has? We can’t do a jew because we ain’t jews bud. How much more of this intellectual tosspottery is going to be hurled about?
We are White People. White People are different from colored people. To spiritual jews this is not obvious. To spiritual Aryans it is. Work on bringing out the true Aryan and suppressing the inner jew/colored they have been trying to goad our people to ape. Resonance. What is killing us? Not being true to ourselves. A man trying to be a woman is a disgusting thing to see, but there is a sight even more disgusting.
Isn’t it, also, extremely cynical of the Captainchaoses of this scene to come down on NeoN for discussing class and the master/slave dynamic among whites, when after all the egalitarian racial rhetoric, they too would have their “self-sacrificing” peasants? What’s worse in that scenario — let’s remember these are fantasy scenarios entirely outside the course of events — is that the latter inspires certain White Nationalists to actually romanticize a subject life in the name of “the cause”: in other words, it brings out the born slaves, and leaves the Captainchaoses, ten times as arrogant and demanding of servitude & conformity as NeoNietzsche, to pretend they have all our best interests in mind. That is the real “Nazi” mindset, which at bottom is paranoid militant bureaucratism — the gangster bully who wants conformity at any cost. The Dzerzhinskys of history didn’t create culture worth fetishizing; they’ve only ever stifled the creative spirit.
“In the sense that I [NN] do not [think it likely that there will be] much “swelling” [in our ranks] or consider such of much consequence.”
That your own efforts [may have] met with failure, and that your (potentially wrong) conception of the sufficient conditions for racial survival may not be met, does not mean that other conceptions and proposed conditions for achieving the goal we all hold in common will be found wanting.
That is an unexceptionable logical proposition, as stated, to which I cannot object - but which, by the same token - doesn’t tell us anything about past and future facts But I understand the hopeful sentiments behind it.
With that said, I personally find the material displayed at your site thought provoking, and appreciate your efforts in doing what you can as you see fit.
Very gracious of you to say so, thanks.
You must be keeping your head up your ass if you don’t think the white mass doesn’t feel disenfranchised.
You’re conflating their experience with Captainchaos’s. Different circumstances, different narrative, different result. The average feeling of disenfranchisement isn’t even close to how Captainchaos feels / thinks, mainly because the latter does think and is articulate, while the former dumbly gnashes its teeth. But, in the end, both feelings and thoughts are irrelevant.
You think we can’t do a jew because the jew already has?
Think of what the Jews have achieved as an historical model: not as an ahistorical one applicable to our own time / circumstances. The Jews gained ground in Europe and America in more innocent times. We can’t do the same today. Different world, man. It’s a trick of thought — you think because we’re here talking about it (what?), it must be possible. But not all that’s thinkable is doable or real. That should be obvious enough. Something intervenes between you and your presumed inevitable assumption into a New Reich where you will vindicated in the abstract collective: that thing is the real world.
We can’t do a jew because we ain’t jews bud.
Huh. I remember reading that somewhere. Anyone else?
How much more of this intellectual tosspottery is going to be hurled about?
Seeing as this is an intellectual form, and intellectualism is all we can manage, probably much, much more. Our refinement in intellectualism is in fact the signpost of our permanent ineffectuality. Only disenfranchised / subject populations subtilize in this way, per Nietzsche’s discussion of Jewish morality and the Christian conscience.
We are White People. White People are different from colored people. To spiritual jews this is not obvious. To spiritual Aryans it is.
No one’s arguing that basic stuff. We’re all here because we ain’t like colores and jews. Beyond that it’s the operation of the same tendency to fantasy and ideological division as anywhere else.
*forum
*coloreds
#118 was addressed to Captainchaos.
You are projecting your experience onto the mass (”solipsism”). Simple as that. There is no evidence, anywhere, that the mass is or has ever been more interested in facts than sensational lies, even with the best means of disseminating facts. To think otherwise, to believe it can be otherwise, is unscientific. (uh)
Hard truths. Sad truths. Septimius Severus.
I don’t see any creativity in the fatuity, just endless cycles of the same old vomit as the dog returns to it again and then returns it again. He goes on about the “world as it is” forgetting that you can’t see the world “as it is”. Look at a rainbow, place a stick halfway in a cup of water and look at it. He would deny the subjective element because he can’t face the abyss of himself. Ho hum. Why should I take lessons from someone who believes you can start on your way to become a “superman” if you just read the right materials. Ha, ha! He is the “last man” who has already chosen his poison for when life has become unbearable. Yes, a little poison here, a little there and at the last a large swallow. Nietzsche isn’t great but that dude fucks it up so bad he doesn’t even know he is the very definition of the “last man”, the “earth flea”.
Meanwhile uh has nothing to add but obfuscation and a probbing of the veins with the virus of skepsis. We have seen how well the jew has worked his magic by the way the virus have travelled till even love becomes a thing of skeptisism. The light-heart of a youth enraptured is lost amongst the foetid dross of skeptisism and intellectualisation. A child is cursed before he is born if he ends amongst such filth. Uh misunderstands good-faith lacking it.
You are arguing it uh. You said we couldn’t do a jew because the jews had already done it. Ergo we at some point in time or such could have done it. WE AIN’T JEWS. It is the basic stuff you brain-fart dudes miss with your historical models and all. There is essence to contend with not just existence. But that fucks up the plot doesn’t it because then what are you?
Shit scary question time. Go on look into the abyss.
Oh, and while I’m thinking about it, I’d best spell out for the mendacious knuckleheads that my growing list of OD characters *is not and was not* an assignment of class or caste of any sort - it was/is a joke:
So, our cast of characters under Hunter’s Big Tent now includes:
1) Erich von Stroheim (myself, NN, in caricature)
2) Antonius Cincinnatus
3) Oldright the Oldwhite
4) Lena the Cleana
5) Traim the Laim
6) The Adled
7) *
He goes on about the “world as it is” forgetting that [Antonius Cincinnatus] can’t see the world “as it is”.
“We can’t do a jew because we ain’t jews bud.”
Huh. I remember reading that somewhere. Anyone else? (uh)
Uh, you disappoint! You would allow allow logical consistency to get in the way of light-heartedness? You would deny our youth their rapture amidst visible declension? You Villain! What were you thinking?
Now say you’re sorry, and promise never, ever to do that again.
That’s a good boy.
NN, you argue like a semite. You post endless contemptuous rants about the white working class and claim to be of the master caste and demean other WNs then switch to morally outraged denial when called on the inevitable conclusion of your philosophy. And damn right you consider me of the slave caste and anyone who’s plowed through your endless posts knows it. When someone calls me a slave, or insinuates I’m a slave, they’re not my ally. We aren’t in the same movement, and you’ll get no help from me. If there’s ever a Nietzschean coup I’ll be part of the insurgency.
WE AIN’T JEWS. (Antonius Cincinnatus)
Rather, we are (with eyes a-sparkle and sighs of rapture) child-like Aryan peasants who fancy ourselves spiritually in touch with nature, and who thus could not be Aryan *masters* because all masters are essentially naughty, materialistic Jews.
NN, you argue like a semite. You post endless contemptuous rants about the white working class and claim to be of the master caste and demean other WNs then switch to morally outraged denial when called on the inevitable conclusion of your philosophy. And damn right you consider me of the slave caste and anyone who’s plowed through your endless posts knows it. When someone calls me a slave, or insinuates I’m a slave, they’re not my ally. We aren’t in the same movement, and you’ll get no help from me. If there’s ever a Nietzschean coup I’ll be part of the insurgency.
I’m sorry that you, as you seem to insinuate, plowed through my “endless” posts, and yet failed to be instructed as to the essential point - which is as to ethics/morality/law (as in Genealogy of Morals?) - not caste.
Caste-wise, I consider you a peasant, not a slave. In any case, you’re a liar. But I nevertheless credit your claim as to stupidly standing in opposition to the only hope for the survival of a race sorely lacking in instruction - and, in your case, lacking in educability.
He would deny the subjective element because he can’t face the abyss of himself.
Huh. While duly admitting that I’m an abyss, I’m actually trying to highlight the subjective element in White Nationalist thought. I deny that Captainchaos’s experience has anything to say about the world as it is, or the future of the world. I think that’s a fair perspective. From Captainchaos’s perspective, the world will reorder itself according to his experience. Because the White Nationalist ego is bound up with ideas of collectivity, becoming a figurative “social” ego or an ego which views itself as part of a collective, the WN misunderstands his instinctual repugnance to the notion that “all is lost” — that there is finality in the world and he is on the shit end of it — as feasible political ideology. This is the nadir of subjectivity masquerading as objectivity, pure ego dressing itself up as pure politics; hence the presence of “crypto-Jews” and “defeatists” in their midst — concretized evasion of impotence, shadows projected to spook himself and his fellow believers. To acknowledge the metacritique in the slightest way is to demolish the illusion that White Nationalism, an illusion stoked by that very name, is politically viable, promoted by our ability to openly fantasize here about what we’d like to happen in the world; this can be called pathological narcissistic anality, I suppose, but I don’t want to be gross, so I just call it solipsism. The subjective element is irrelevant, but when it dresses itself up as objective political ideology, it becomes absurd.
And there are occasions when the subjective makes accurate predictions based on very strong social currents. Nietzsche, for example, “predicted” or at least presaged world wars (”Weltkriege”) and a subsequent epistemological break whereafter his master morality would be taken up by the victor. He also saw Jews as the most “pregnant” people in Europe at the time. So we have three predictions:
- Jews will become master of Europe.
- There will be “world wars”.
- Nietzschean values will be the law of the land thereafter.
Two out of three: No one could’ve foreseen the revival of “slave morality” through the Holocaust cult. “Anti-Semites” were merely contemptible, so Nietzsche didn’t consider anti-Semitic nationalism as a potential spark to the powder-keg — but the point is the smell of gunpowder was in everyone’s nose at the time, and it wasn’t hazardous to say that there were more European (even transatlantic) wars to come. Quite a few fin-de-siecle authors predicted this.
Now, we live in a different era. It’s much more complex than Nietzsche’s world. There’s nothing about to indicate “collapse”, “revolution”, upheaval or reversal of any kind, because complexity can’t be reversed and can’t really collapse; the White Nationalist ego, then, is working with an old-fashioned and ahistorical narrative which permits itself the luxury of ignoring everything about the modern world for the sake of its political desiderata, which it only imagines will be better for it (the ego) than present circumstances allow.
An ahistorical narrative is a theological narrative, for only in theology are there eternal beings, free will, etc. Evolution means everything as it is right now; the world is as it has become. To predict what is to come means one must extrapolate such events from what already is, and that White Nationalism cannot begin to do, because we find in our era only consolidation of political and ideological strictures. All the stuff White Nationalism cares about, the world has left very much behind. But the White Nationalist is allowed to ignore the world by his de-contextualized internet ego (”persona”). It is this ignorance of the world in its smallest and grandest details that lay at the heart of White Nationalist ideology.
Why should I take lessons from someone who believes you can start on your way to become a “superman” if you just read the right materials.
I dunno. But consider that you can transcend certain limitations of thought by reading this or that book. I disagree with about 80% of NeoN’s reading list, but the remainder could bring you a fair way past mere “White Nationalism”. But, here again, one flirts with the heresy of individualism as against the enforcement of collectivism necessitated by the desiderata of White Nationalism.
Yes, a little poison here, a little there and at the last a large swallow.
That’s what she said!
with the virus of skepsis.
Opposite of skepsis?
Doxa (????) is a Greek word meaning common belief or popular opinion, from which are derived the modern terms of orthodoxy[1] and heterodoxy.[2] Used by the Greek rhetoricians as a tool for the formation of argument by using common opinions, the doxa was often manipulated by sophists to persuade the people, leading to Plato’s condemnation of Athenian democracy.
So the very theorist of rule by the aristoi was at bottom — a skeptic!
. Ergo we at some point in time or such could have done it. WE AIN’T JEWS.
Someone else has to see the irony in this. NeoNietzsche? Come on, guys.
Now, we live in a different era.
Should go without saying — but I’ll say it anyway — that though he was right about the wars and the epistemological break, the metanarrative that came after, constructed as they went by Jews, was completely opposite his desideratum: victimology, worship of the weak, crippling of the strong, and so on. White Nationalists also predict or posit an epistemological break, but with no objective political circumstances to back up or justify this belief. Instead they insist that “people are waking up” (what people?), “things are going our way” (huh? where?), that we “don’t know what is coming” — which is to say that only they know what is coming and are entitled to say; but underlying is the semantic trick of all appeals to agnosticism: by asserting we can’t know the White Nationalist implies that what he wants is likely. The void of opportunistic agnosticism is filled by false exceptation, the suggestion of wish-fulfillment (”don’t give up; you never know what’ll happen!”), the rhetoric of the pathologically hopeful — THAT is “obfuscation”.
“1) Erich von Stroheim (myself, NN, in caricature)”
LOL!! You’re such an ass, NN. You do make me laugh.
1) The Prick (NeoNietzsche of course)
“Ergo[,] we at some point in time or such could have done it. WE AIN’T JEWS.”
Someone else has to see the irony in this. NeoNietzsche? Come on, guys. (uh)
#129 is what I see in it.
Rather, we are (with eyes a-sparkle and sighs of rapture) child-like Aryan peasants who fancy ourselves spiritually in touch with nature, and who thus could not be Aryan *masters* because all masters are essentially naughty, materialistic Jews.
LOL. Now come on, the Hittites rode chariots. Why can’t we ride chariots? If the Hittites and the Nazis could do it, we can too! Life’s a journey, everything happens for a reason. You never know what’ll happen. Just wait, the one for you (~*the revolution*~) will come along.
I might’ve said CC prescribes experience for the mass, which points to the objective political teleology, but really it is projection, psychologically speaking. “What happened to me — that will happen to others more and more, until there are enough of us to ______ .” Appeal to numbers at the end of it, as always. How many millions of Chinese have been against their system for almost a century? Yet they never “rose up” or made their own “media”. Maybe because they’re a “placid yellow race”, or something.
#129 is what I see in it.
Right, but I meant the “Cryptos (II)” thread, wherein everyone but you and Soren, ironically, came down on me for saying we couldn’t rival the Jews in media, for one thing, because we aren’t Jews.
“You post endless contemptuous rants about the white working class and claim to be of the master caste and demean other WNs…”
A self-styled master caste mind you.
The point about NN and uh is that they are aristocrats in their own mind. Having failed at whatever endeavour IRL, they are compelled to act out this silly fantasy of theirs online, for the sake of self-esteem. Old enough to know better, they are desperately trying to save face, in the hope their absurd charade will produce admirers amongst the gullible WNs at OD.
Go back to polishing your jack-boots, boys.
The point about NN and uh is that they are aristocrats in their own mind.
Well, you call yourself “The Admiral”.
they are compelled to act out this silly fantasy of theirs online, for the sake of self-esteem.
Hm. Strange. That’s what I’ve been saying you all do, this whole time. I don’t suppose you’d be desperate enough to rip me off for a leg to stand on. You’re better than that.
Old enough to know better, they are desperately trying to save face
I’m 28. Is that old?
The point about NN and uh is that they are aristocrats in their own mind.
Very good!
Now - what does this tell us about our peasants, AC, OtO, Traim, and yourself?
Don’t take too long thinking about it, or your mark on this pop quiz goes down!
Hey NN, what do you call 100 peasants with AK-47s?
Not peasants, not to their face anyway, and you damn well better show them some respect.
Uh ~ What’s wrong with you? Did your wife leave you? And yes, 28 is too old for you to be playing make-believe.
NN ~ Unbutton your Nazi tunic, old chap, I think the collar is affecting your circulation.
NN:
Now - what does this tell us about our peasants, AC, OtO, Traim, and yourself?
Why look, it’s a list of slaves. I guess I read you better than you admit, comrade.
#129 is what I see in it.
Right, but I meant the “Cryptos (II)” thread, wherein everyone but you and Soren, ironically, came down on me for saying we couldn’t rival the Jews in media, for one thing, because we aren’t Jews.
And as I implied earlier, uh, you’ve got to *master* this un-Aryan inclination of yours to a demoralizing demand for logical consistency in the fantasies of your innocent interlocutors.
Or - maybe you should submit to something - I’m never sure, when Antonius shows up with Schopenhauer on his shoulder.
I’m still waiting for NeoNietzsche to explain how his military coup will suppress 150 million armed whites when the US military can’t suppress the insurgency in Iraq, a country of less than 20 million people.
I notice the faux-aristocrats avoid any argument that brings brutish, ugly facts into the discussion. Nietzsche didn’t understand technology. The AK-47 (and similar developments) makes the workers equal to the aristocrats in combat. It’s no coincidence that the aristocracies collapsed shortly after the introduction of mass produced, reliable firearms.
Hey NN, what do you call 100 peasants with AK-47s?
Mortally perforated with 5.56×45, beyond the range of 7.62×39, by, say, 6 Greater Judean mercenaries armed with the usual. It happened in Iraq, with 50 and 3, respectively, if I recall the details.
I’m still waiting for NeoNietzsche to explain how his military coup will suppress 150 million armed whites when the US military can’t suppress the insurgency in Iraq, a country of less than 20 million people.
The Greater Judean regime would not shrink from using a nuclear, or any other type of, weapon on what would be portrayed (whatever the case) as “neo-nazis” - since the propaganda premises of such an attack would not impose restraint such as was the case in Iraq (liberation/democratization/modernization). This should be obvious from the final stages of the WW to Save Judeo-Communism.
And secessionism, realized in fact, would facilitate this development.
[And you are dreaming, a'la "uh's" analysis]
Why look, it’s a list of slaves. I guess I read you better than you admit, comrade.
What letter grade do you assign to a zero score these days?
Perhaps a note to the parents advising remedial instruction?
I notice the faux-aristocrats avoid any argument that brings brutish, ugly facts into the discussion. Nietzsche didn’t understand technology. The AK-47 (and similar developments) makes the workers equal to the aristocrats in combat. It’s no coincidence that the aristocracies collapsed shortly after the introduction of mass[-]produced, reliable firearms.
The longbow did the same, beginning at Crecy, in the 14th century. The aristocracies didn’t collapse. The armies changed tactics, still led by aristocrats.
OldRight,
Please don’t conflate Nietzsche the philosopher with NeoNietzsche the comments guy.
Nietzsche devoted the majority of his time to doing what he did best: philosophizing with a hammer. His analyses of Christianity, Judaism, anti-Semitism, Western philosophy, and modernity were devastating. He even diagnosed the ultimate problem, confirming in three infamous words where the stench was coming from.
Nietzsche deliberately refrained from describing his fabled redeemer in too great detail. The most he really did was imply that this superman would need to be capable of operating on a higher level, of possessing a genius and courage sufficient to meet the challenge. This superman would be capable of transcending even the master morality and slave morality paradigm.
Nietzsche was a philosopher, not a leader. NeoNietzsche is neither.
OldRight,
Please don’t conflate Nietzsche the philosopher with NeoNietzsche the comments guy.
That would be to impute to Nietzsche a rationalization of Nietzsche’s summary findings that Nietzsche was not good enough to supply for the information and comprehension of those not so intuitive as himself - meaning you who are thus seriously in need of instruction regarding vital considerations you do not understand.
Nietzsche devoted the majority of his time to doing what he did best: philosophizing with a hammer. His analyses of Christianity, Judaism, anti-Semitism, Western philosophy, and modernity were devastating. He even diagnosed the ultimate problem, confirming in three infamous words where the stench was coming from.
Unfortunately in so unsystematic a fashion that readers such as “Lena the Cleana” can read him and not even recognize a political philosophy therein. Thus the need for a “bulldog” such as I, to fill a bill that Wiki here is not, with his vague summations and posturings as an expert on N.
Nietzsche deliberately refrained from describing his fabled redeemer in too great detail. The most he really did was imply that this superman would need to be capable of operating on a higher level, of possessing a genius and courage sufficient to meet the challenge. This superman would be capable of transcending even the master morality and slave morality paradigm.
How useful a guide to action. What are we to make of this portrayal? Wiki does not bother to render assistance.
Nietzsche was a philosopher, not a leader. NeoNietzsche is neither.
So Wiki steps up to the plate and…whiffs.
Isn’t there a forum for these sort of long-winded discussions?
It makes me want to close my browser completely when I have to read over these pissing matches between the battling egos. Not the sort of thing that attracts people to the site.
My 2 shekels anyway.
NeoNietzsche,
Perhaps if you spent less time being a “bulldog” and more time reading and reflecting on posts, you would see that I dismissed Nietzsche as a relevant source for guiding action altogether. I’m not going to follow up with an alternative guide to action because my post was directed at people who may have been misled about the nature of Nietzsche’s philosophy…not you.
I have no interest in discussing or debating Nietzsche with you. I apologize for any misunderstanding I may have caused with my inappropriately sassy closing sentence.
Hey, Uh-huh: Certainly am still tilling chernozem, but not hemp. I cultivate P. somniferum, though only for its nice appearance; I don’t need drugs or the money they might bring. And I’m old enough to be your mama, so watch your mouth, you little whippersnapper.
Hey, just a suggestion, but could you maybe talk plain English for those of us who aren’t into big words?
My dad told me that a long time ago the cops would come around to people’s homes and tell them to destroy whatever few little opium poppies they had on their property. Can you imagine. What a fkg stupid world where our police force worries about a few flowers.
Yes, I know you’re old, married, and a MILF. We’ve been down this road.
What a fkg stupid world where our police force worries about a few flowers.
Ahmsayin.
Actually, if you want, I wouldn’t mind re-making your acquaintance, if only to pick your brain about the right way to grow la Noir Idole. wastulas@eml.cc
Wikitopian,
I apologize for any misunderstanding I may have caused with my inappropriately sassy closing sentence.
Your entire penultimate comment was inappropriately sassy, dude.
you would see that I dismissed Nietzsche as a relevant source for guiding action altogether.
Indeed. What can one possibly glean from a philosopher who enjoins one to “live philosophically”?
Perhaps if you spent less time being a “bulldog” and more time reading and reflecting on posts, you would see that I dismissed Nietzsche as a relevant source for guiding action altogether.
I do not believe, based on my attention to posts current since I recently began to participate, that you committed this dismissal amidst that material. If I am in error in this belief, you have my apologies for my misbehavior.
Otherwise I plead that I have not been informed as to how far back into the archives it is proper to go in order to have given sufficient attention to “reading and reflecting” to have met your standards.
Donald,
You’re right. This is the third or fourth pissing contest I have had to close. I will reopen the forum and move these conversations over there.