What Do These “American Nationalist” MAGApedes Even Want?

Despite having an extremely busy couple of weeks, I’ve been trying my best to follow the Hard-Right/American Nationalist debate raging across social media – it seems to flare up once a month or so.

Now, the Hard Right position has consistently been that America as we know and understand it is dead – a rotting corpse that is just as irretrievable as the Roman Republic was at the end of the 1st century BC.

On the other side, all I’ve been able to observe is a mixture of ad hominem attacks (muh goon squads), and references to how the Founding Fathers of this country were hardcore White Supremacists according to modern standards – some were actually quite liberal for the times.

So I guess I’m left wondering just what exactly these American Nationalists wish to achieve in the long term – we desire some sort of partition from the ruins of the United States’ carcass.

An Easy Road To Victory Electorally

We tried to give Donald Trump and the Civic Nationalists a chance (I personally put thousands of hours of manpower into the Campaign), but once again we were snubbed, smacked around, and dragged through the dirt like a cheap hooker working a ghetto street corner.

And while some on the Hard Right have expressed remorse at having fought so hard during the last few years, I still believe that our effort was beneficial – we got to learn beyond all doubt that in modern America, elections only serve to aid corporate entities and Jewish donors at the expense of the White working class.

It seems obvious to us (I’m sick of the childish 4-D chess nonsense), but yet American Nationalists still seem convinced that we’ll be able to sit back, post a few memes, and wake up on a sunny day with Negroes and Hispanics crammed into cattle cars and Jews being dragged into planes bound for an Israel on the cusp of nuclear annihilation.

There may have once been a time in which this would have been possible, but I would have thought it obvious that certain (((powers))) have learned from previous events – through trial and error over the years, they have made the system rigged to the point that a Nationalist surge could never succeed on Capitol Hill.

A Normie Storm Of Unprecedented Scale

We’ve touched on this quite a bit since last summer – the average normie is a man or woman in the upper middle class that has literally no sense of identity aside from extreme individualistic consumerism.

At the moment, the life of the normie is too comfortable to risk any sort of deviation from the status quo drafted up by the Jewish intellectual and media elite – they understand fully that careers and savings accounts can be broken in the span of minutes for even the slightest transgression or sign of racial consciousness.

It’ll likely remain this way for many years to come – our only converts from this sector are going to be those who lose everything due to outsourcing, layoffs, financial crashes, or the rapid enrichment of their communities, and besides, at that point you’re not talking about a normie anymore.

American Nationalists seem to hold the view that if they pull the same failed tricks as dog-whistling Conservatives of the past, or if they make sure to wave an American flag and hold a copy of the Constitution while demanding that we stop these Kikes, then they’ll at last drag the normie away from his sheltered life of gated communities, all-White Little League teams, and Sunday Prosperity Gospel.

Again, not going to work barring some sort of divine miracle – many of these people forget that before the Daily Stormer, you had IRL groups working with similar beliefs (sometimes openly, sometimes behind closed doors) among upper middle class folks that still possessed a semi-uniform culture, and an awareness of the Jewish Problem (especially in places like the Northeast).

They all failed to put the (((cancer))) into remission.

A Return To A Now-Buried America

History teaches us that nothing is eternal.

Empires decline and fall, governments collapse, people die, religions vanish, and philosophies become watered down, get forgotten, and are rediscovered in a cycle that can span thousands of years.

Even something like National Socialism (which the Hard Right tends to be sympathetic towards) is not exclusive to the Third Reich (Plato’s Republic and Caesar’s vision of Rome were quite similar when studied), and even if Germany had won the Second World War, NS would have eventually fallen.

Therefore, it stands to reason that we would not want to directly resurrect something that had collapsed for whatever reason(s), but would only want to learn from the past, take the best attributes of fallen eras and philosophies, and create something new that would hopefully hold out longer and stand stronger than its predecessors.

Now, I could be wrong here, but it seems as if a good number of American Nationalists do not wish to do anything but bring back a time period that is now lost to the mists of time.

Do they want the 1980’s America?

Probably not – this was a time that saw degenerates perfect mainlining cocaine, and a half-senile President start the nightmare amnesty cycle.

Maybe the 1950’s?

Better times, definitely, but still an era that had the seeds of decay already planted – it was just the strength of the White American and his Christian beliefs that made the rot take so long to manifest itself.

How about the 1920’s?

This was a more decent era than the above two, and was arguably the height of the United States in terms of racial awareness, wariness towards the Biological Jew, and peace between regions of the country that were more often than not at each other’s throats.

Problem is that to try to bring this society back from the dead, you would have to utilize measures that are far more hardcore than anything an American Nationalist would consent to.

You would have to shred a good chunk of the modern Constitution, literally break the Blacks, shatter clusters of Hispanics ranging from Washington State, to Massachusetts, to rural Alabama, and deal with the Jews in a way that I don’t see possible other than awe-inspiring treason trials that would be broadcast night and day for months at a time.

The sheer nature of the struggle would unravel America as we know it, and would likely lead to a Hard Right-style partition due to the levels of resistance that would be encountered – this scenario does not even take into account our foreign policy, trade entanglements, collapsing infrastructure, and governmental system that is more skewed towards donors and lobbyists than ever before.

Oh, and the 20’s also featured some serious “goon squads” – including (allegedly) the God Emperor’s own father.

I’m trying to say all these things because I truly wish to debate the other side in a way that might see us reach some sort of common understanding that would prevent future disagreements and infighting.

Maybe, just maybe, articles like this could help to bring everything together in a way that would make true debate possible.

About Marcus Cicero 593 Articles
Proud White Man, devoted husband and father, and Occidental Dissent contributor.

45 Comments

  1. its strange that weev would attack hunter of all people. dont we have enough enemies? i dont think amnat will work but if they wanna try it fine, just dont constantly try to rip us for being independent enough to build the safety net that will catch them when ZOG drops them on their ass.

    mostly i just think they are young, and havent seen enough elections to know that we never win. also alot of that crowd is disconnected from what is actually happening on the ground.

    hypocritical that anglin and weev want people to infiltrate and try to reform the fed, while they hide from it in foreign countries. something dont smell right with that.

    • Hunter posted on how Weev was a jew weeks ago, so he is not completely innocent.

      “hypocritical that anglin and weev want people to infiltrate and try to reform the fed, ”

      It’s about changing how the white masses thinks about race by changing the language(memes) they use to talk about the world they live in. Trump is helpful here, even if his policies are shit.

      • I acknowledge the trump effect, which as you say, did help Whites begin to think as a block.

        however, i do not believe a pro-white will ever take office or mutiny that institution. it is lost to us forever. best to start building something now.

        • As of now, it’s pro-whites that are being ostracized, but when the change occur it will be the white anti-whites that will be ostracized, and White people are good at that, as we pro-whites know a bit too well.

          No white people have committed suicide I am aware of, so I doubt the ones that grow up with divershitty will do it, once they understand what is at stake.

          I don’t know if elections are important or not, so I’ll stay out of that one.

        • They are scared that menacing marching morons will destroy the normalization process of pro-white talking points. I don’t think Hunter or Heimbach are that, so I don’t really see the problem.

    • Anglin and Weev are older than me – I was born in 1989.

      And others in that clique are old enough to be my father.

      It’s a combination of things – I’ve written about it before.

    • Hunter has been attacking the entire movement for 6 months now. When someone finally punches back you guys get all offended. You’re all rapidly putting yourselves on the same team as all the other useless nobodies: Collin Liddell, Andy Nowiki and Vox Day.

  2. I agree that we need to think outside the system but dressing up in a ridiculous outfit and acting the part is a failing strategy, just like the klan has failed.

  3. One of the many MAGA Jews, who pretend to speak for whites who often debate Spencer, said recently after a few minutes of a halfhearted debate that he doesn’t care if Spencer and the rest of us are correct in what we say. He hates us and will fight us no matter what and that he has no interest in debating really. Every now and then you get an honest Jew.

    You can usually spot the Jew. They’re the ones who have a visceral hatred for us while the Proud Boys and libertarians are just scared and confused cucks.

    • The merit of strong symbolism e.g. uniforms is that it conveys a big message very concisely and triggers strong emotions of like or dislike. Lately there has been a huge row about confederate statues and the Holocaust is mentioned every 5 minutes. Those events are ancient history but they remain vital as symbols. People who complain about uniforms, flags logos, etc. are either people who don’t like what the uniforms stand for or who fail to understand the power of symbolism, the need for visible public affirmations of radical dissent from the status quo. The left has always understood this, hence in the 1960s they waved Vietcong flags or Soviet flags or “went carrying pictures or Chairman Mao” to quote the Beatles song.

  4. I think you are over-thinking this. These nationalists just aren’t very smart and simply cannot see the trend lines and predict where they are headed. These are the people who are going to be genuinely shocked one Tuesday in November in the 2020s when Texas turns irrevocably blue.

        • It will be the beginning of a segmenting of the United States. When we reach the point of not being able to elect a Republican President that’s day one of the real struggle.

    • I actually wouldn’t call most of these AmNats stupid aside from the 19 year old Art Tavana twerp.

      The rest are quite intelligent, have a good amount of ideas I can agree with, but keep pushing subversive crap like cucking for Trump.

    • The Alt Right has the advantage of youth = they don’t realize they can’t win so they try, while the older folks just bitch like old ladies. But the disadvantage of youth is a lack of knowledge and experience. The older right needs to educate the younger right on how the world works and then hand off the ball. As for going back to the past, that’s what the nationalist movement is about and what the patriot movement is also about. You don’t have to think of it in those terms but any successful movement will begin by casting off the harmful ideas that we have been indoctrinated with over the last 50 – 100 years.

    • The difference between us is not ideological or methodological: the difference between our two sides is that your side WANTS Texas to turn blue, and our side doesn’t. Your side WANTS to lose – NEEDS to lose – because its the only way you will be vindicated after your (false) perception of being rejected by the rest of the movement after the WLM embarrassment.

  5. Oh, it’s Slanton, not Stanton. Never mind.

    Trump is the MAGA cultists’ infallible leader, so now they can go back to sleep again –
    until Kamala Harris wins in 2020.

  6. The expansion of Anglo settlement always had a dual identity. On the one hand it was Ethnocentric and racist. On the other hand it was always Liberal. I suspect North America is lost. Jeff Sessions can’t even point out the Anglo-Saxon origin of American legal culture without a pile on. What chance has the wider culture got after that?

    • Says the baby foreskin-obsessed, closet queer who comes from the Afro-Pakistani shithole that is the JEWnited CUCKdom, but is too chickenshit to live there anymore.

      Just wait until May 19 when your royal swine Harry makes it official with his kike sheboon in front of the whole world. Then come back here and try telling Americans that our country is lost, you smug limey coward.

    • The American Empire will have to collapse before there is any withdrawal of ZOG forces from their overseas colonies.

  7. The awakening of the normie is a slow process, but it has taken on its own momentum. Things are said and thought more and more widely that were literally impossible just a couple of years ago. The (((enemy))) is in a berserk panic, lashing out hysterically — extremely dangerous, yes, but also operating in the open more than ever before, and making plenty of unforced errors.

    The NRA came within a hair of calling out the (((tribe))) as gun-grabbers, nation-destroyers, and enemies of America, and the (((MSM))) then obligingly pointed out that all the main gun grabbers, nation destroyers, and enemies of America named are Jews, in their frenzied shrieking over it.

    The mind of the populace is in ferment like it hasn’t been for generations. New trends are emerging including a strengthening right wing.

    While one shouldn’t think that everything is rosy and it’s possible to just relax now, there’s a serious blackpill addiction on this site as well. This is a dangerous time, but we’re not quite down and out yet, and the phoenix may yet come blazing out of the ashes.

  8. The old political saw is: “What have you done for me lately?”

    There are two driving forces for officer holders:
    * How many votes will this give me on election day?
    * How much money can I get from my donors?

    The dilemma post-election 2016 was that the Alt Right was not strong enough to provide support for Trump once he was in office. He ended up having to make deals with the existing power structure to create a presidency. That’s just the reality of politics.

    The GOP’s throwing the Alt Right to the wolves post-Charlottesville was morally indefensible. Then again, the policies of mainstream conservatism have been indefensible, morally or otherwise, for decades. The dilemma reverts back to the Alt Right to make it too expensive for Conservatism, Inc., to continue business as usual.

    On 20 January 2017 the Alt Right needed to have people and organizations at the Beltway to provide the top and middle echelon personnel for Trump’s cabinet and federal agency picks. And behind this was needed a realworld Alt Right presence in media and the streets to counter “Deep State” operations. The Alt Right did not have people on the ramp, so Trump went elsewhere. Rather than throwing in the towel, the Alt Right needs to learn some lessons and bounce back stronger than before.

    If the Alt Right wants to become a force on the electoral front, then:
    * It is going to have to cut deals with friendly candidates to deliver enough votes to make a difference on election day. More critically, it is going to have to ensure that deals are made up front which will not result in the Alt Right being tossed to the curb once “our” candidates are in office.
    * The Alt Right can also figure some way to provide sufficient financing to friendly candidates to counter the moneys coming in from anti-White sources. This will be difficult, but possibly can be met with some kind of online organization. Call it the Alt-Right-PAC.
    * The Alt Right does have a strength insofar as it is capable of mobilizing via Internet and other social media viral videos, meme warfare, flash demonstrations and other infowar tactics. The recent wave of de-platformings has damaged this capacity, but also can be turned into an advantage: the Alt Right can now take up the banner of the dissident, fighting for freedom against a repressive system.

    I see increasing numbers of people adopting Alt Right memes (e.g., “cuck,” Kekistan,” “getting zucked” are coming into common usage). I know more who are fed up with diversity” policies and multicultic indoctrination. Even respectable Republicans see themselves increasingly submerged by the rising tide of Blue state color. Critically, young Whites are getting involved. These people form an audience which the can be turned into a voting bloc, money, legal support and (especially) a movement in the streets. The Alt Right can provide just that, an alternative for people who are fed up with politics as usual.

    It will be a long and difficult struggle to mobilize. But it can be done, if the Alt Right has a realistic strategy.

    Then after the next election, the Alt Right can ask Republicans: “What have you done for us lately?”

    • There are two problems with your (otherwise excellent) comment.

      First, demographically it is simply too late to play electoral politics. The US white population share is something like 55% when you discount the 10-15 million illegals plus the fact that ~15 millions of Arabs, Jews, Turks, Iranians, Central Asians etc etc are all counted as “white”.

      On top of that, it is really the under-5 which count because that is “already baked into the cake”. And Whites are already a minority there. So even if we had an immigration moratorium TOMORROW plus every illegal was deported, it still wouldn’t be enough. And Trump can’t even find the spine to end DACA, which he can do on his own with the stroke of the pen.

      The second problem is that the primary game is metapolitics. You are right that Trump turned to the establishment because they were the only ones there. But that is all the more reason to push for metapolitics first and electoral politics later, not the other way around. Nevertheless, even if this was done with shockingly good outcomes, it still wouldn’t be enough due to the demographics of the US.

      I know people don’t want to hear it, but by and large, any electoral change in the US demographic landscape is finished. The last ship probably sailed in the 80s or at the very latest the 1990s. By the 2020s, it would *de facto* mean that you’d be advocating for an Apartheid state, a white minority ruling over a non-white majority. Yes, you’ll tell me, you don’t want them here. But getting rid of 150 million people is easier said than done. And even if it was done, it certainly wouldn’t be done in an electoral democracy, but more akin to a fascist dictatorship.

      • The second problem is that the primary game is metapolitics.

        It just may be that a general awakening of White racial consciousness could occur, and with that things would change radically. The longer this awakening is delayed, the bigger the task ahead.

        At the start of the 19th century, White Americans were confined to largely east of the Appalachians. By 1890, Whites had conquered the continent to the Pacific and built a great civilization. Of course, in the 21st century such a conquest would be more difficult given the numbers of non-Whites now in North America.

        One alternative is on a higher echelon: a global network of White peoples and states. Perhaps North America could be partitioned, with a White super-state composed of most of Canada and half of the current USA. A multicultic state could also be established alongside it, to include peoples of color and any White “progressives” who want to be “enriched by diversity.”

        A look at any historical atlas shows that there is no such thing as a permanent border. For the present, elections are one front in a much bigger struggle. The Alt Right needs to engage in them for tactical reasons, but must look at the long term for creating that White ethnostate—which means a hegemony of pro-White political ideas. Thus, the importance of metapolitics.

  9. That’s an excellent article! NS would have fallen, and fallen fast.
    A race, an empire or great country needs to be sacred, meaning religion should be taken very seriously, humans in general need more than just the material things or endless propaganda of how my race special or superior.
    The biggest problem with America is religion, Protestantisms is a total failure, it consists basically of Jewish larpers. Without a religious awakening the West is doomed.
    Jews survived til now because of their religion. To destroy them, their religion must be destroyed.
    Very few people make the issue about race the central point of politics, or their lives.

    • My opinion is that NS’ true test would have been immediately after Hitler’s death.

      The man was a genius that we only see once every 500-1000 years, but would he have had decent successors, or would it have been like after Alexander the Great’s death?

  10. The reason why I never embraced the alt right is on clear display here: they are not righteous.

    They are always attacking people in the most vile ways they can imagine. Brad Griffin always struck me a decent honorable man who is merely pointing that the Emperor has few, if any, clothes. He is actually doing the alt right a valuable favor, because the alt right is cursed by a cult like atmosphere and group think. But for this service he is attacked in very personal ways.

    As we have been discussing in recent days, the broader white population knows there is a problem, but they aren’t going to give us a blank check. We have to earn their trust with:

    1) Trustworthy behavior

    2) A concrete, believable plan

    With that in place, we can start to lay the foundation for a new nation that is simply waiting on the consent of the governed when the current system goes over the cliff edge. People should already start living in the new nation in their hearts and minds; that alone will be catalytic.

    • The JQ is the key to waking up normie white people. It’s the big, huge, missing piece to the puzzle of why everything is so fucked up, but they can’t put their finger on WHY. Once that puzzle piece is in place, everything — all of history, especially the 20th century — makes total sense. And it’s infuriating. Normie white heads will explode, and what follows is inevitable and righteous.

  11. “ To destroy them, their religion must be destroyed. “

    Nemo, I would suggest you read Andrew Fraser’s new book, “Dissident Dispatches; An Alt-Right Guide to theology.”

    We need to jettison the perennial pessimism of the dispensationalist heresy, realize that Preterism is the only biblical theology of conquest, and begin to preach the reality that Judaism is forever disbarred from ever entering the kingdom of heaven again, at A.D.70. And that the complete destruction of Jerusalem and the temple was God’s way of saying, “Jews, we are done! “

    If we realize that the entire new testament was written before A.D. 70 and the destruction of Jerusalem, we realize that there is a great golf fixed between pre-distruction Judaism, and post-destruction Christendom.

    The church is Israel now, and has been since A. D. 70

    • Fr. John, people need to become more interested in discussing religion, religion is crucial.
      I live far away from US and English is not my language, I only know that Protestantism is/was a disaster. Protestantism is focused in the old Testament, it’s a materialistic and individualistic sect.
      Due to focusing in the old Testament, it leads to worshipping the Jew.
      And unfortunately it contaminated other Christian churches.
      I like reading Julius Evola, “Revolt against
      the Modern World”, “Men among the Ruins”, and “Ride the Tiger” are fantastic books, though I didn’t read them in English.
      Like Evola wrote, how the Jews were able to leave the ghettos and amassed so much power? His answer, Christian became Jews.
      And he wrote that in the 1930’s, today is much worse.
      The emancipation of Jews happened because of the Protestant Reformation, it needs to be wiped out. It’s a naive cult.

    • Friar John, if the NT was written between AD 70 and 125, which is what most objective scholars believe, then the Greek-speaking jews who wrote it could not have personally known Jesus while he was on Earth preaching his ministry.

    • The Preterist interpretation of Revelation (and Daniel) has enormous political and religious implications. Anyone who doubts the Preterist interpretation should read Revelation side by side with Josephus’ The Jewish War. If you’re looking for a good single volume on Preterism I recommend Behind The Veil Of Moses by Brian L. Martin.

  12. It doesn’t matter what the #MAGA conservatives or the civic nationalists want, because they are not going to get it. The ZOG empire is under enemy alien control and the only way that control ends is through armed revolt, something they don’t have the stomach for.

  13. Honestly, I just see it all coming to a head with the Fed Gov dissolving/losing all power. The states will refuse to be governed by an increasingly antagonistic entity, and adherence to Fed law will break down. Governance will return to the individual states.

  14. Debate requires good faith and intellectual honesty and that means not insulting and misrepresenting the people you claim to want to debate. I haven’t seen any intellectual honesty or good faith at OD in a long time. The whole-cloth invention of a non-existent “Hard Right” to distance yourselves from everyone else proves it. The only place the “hard right” exists is in minds of OD writers. The thing that actually exists is called “ALT Right” – the team we’re all on, including yourselves, no matter how much you might deny it. You’re locked in here with us, no matter what. All the little distinctions you are attempting to make with “hard right” are completely lost on 99.999% of observers. You are literally doing what Jews do by trying to invent words and phrases to obfuscate things that are inconvenient to your narratives. Hilarious. And again, you incessantly and gratuitously INSULT and MISREPRESENT those you claim to want to have a debate with. That’s not the makings of good faith.

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