About Hunter Wallace 9536 Articles
Founder and Editor-in-Chief of Occidental Dissent

45 Comments

  1. I am astounded that in the case of Ukraine folks are displaying Free Republic-style ignorance and naivete.

    Trying to spin this as a victory for the nascent white renaissance is ridiculous.

    Is this 2014’s version of the Romney supporter?

  2. Afterthought on February 24, 2014 at 12:29 am:

    I am astounded that in the case of Ukraine folks are displaying Free Republic-style ignorance and naivete. (etc)

    Why not express yourself clearer if you have anything useful to say?

  3. Lew says:

    ‘ The pro-Putin side in these discussions does not seem to want to acknowledge the Western Ukrainians have legitimate grievances.’

    Yes, the Ukrainians do have many legitimate grievances.

    The atrocities committed against them by the Soviets surely must linger in their collective psyche.

    Everyone in the world is reminded daily of the ‘Holocaust’, but most people on the planet have not heard of the Russian inflicted Ukrainian genocide known as the ‘Holodomor.’

    And if told, they would not care. That happened in this century in the 1930’s.

    Don’t think for a moment Ukrainian nationalists have forgotten.

    Tomaslav Sunic has often written about the bitter historical ethnic rivalries dividing Whites in Europe.

    Lots of hate and rivers of shed blood. Not easy to rectify.

    Is that hard for us to fathom?

    Look how people here carry on about the war between the states which which was fought over a 150 years ago.

    Some are ready to start shooting tomorrow and we have it infinitely better than those in Ukraine.

  4. Sam, on February 24, 2014 at 1:18 am:

    the Russian inflicted Ukrainian genocide known as the ‘Holodomor.’

    Let’s be careful here: it was a “Communists-inflicted”, not “Russian-inflicted” “Holodomor”. There were probably more “Ukrainians” (the people born on the territory of the current Ukraine) responsible for the Bolsheviks’ coming to the power (see, e.g. “Trotsky and Zinoviev, both born in Yelisavetgrad, in central Ukraine) and holding the power at the time of Holodomor (Kaganovich, born near Kiev) than “Russians”. The guy in charge, Stalin, was not a Russian, either (you should look up their original names — none of them is Russian).

    Lots of hate and rivers of shed blood. Not easy to rectify.

    This is not as simple. As I tried to explain, culturally and historically the Russian and Ukrainian peoples are very inter-weaved. They have been really like two brothers.

    But there is a huge difference in how the “Russians” (a loose definition) and “Ukrainians” see the Communist past: many Russians look at it with at least some warmth, while the Ukrainians, in my understanding, are totally non-sentimental about those days. It’s not the ethnic hatred that plays here but the Ukrainians’ desire to free themselves from the danger of the gangster regimes forever, like the Baltic states did in 1990. Plus the trivial human desire to “just live” — to have the food, housing, work. That kind of a simple stuff that some people here naively expect the Ukrainian have enough of.

    Is that hard for us to fathom?

    Useful idiots never strive to fathom the truths of life, they love their illusions. Why spend the time reading and studying when you can just salivate over the pictures of men in cute military hats and tightly-dressed women?

    we have it infinitely better than those in Ukraine.

    Indeed. Thank you Sam.

  5. So then, SNs supporting Putin are ignorant rubes. We believe these events were instigated by rabbis walking around saying, “here’s $20 in jew-geld if you go commit suicide (pay you when you get back),” and the mob said, “ok we’ll do it!” The concept is especially laughable when you understand that jews in Kiev decided to cover their ass rather than stay to distribute more jew-geld, which they certainly would have had they been in on it, just to show you how stupid we are.

    The nationalist Ukraine solution, Yulia Tymoshenko, when she was in power, did in fact address and was about to resolve the issue that:

    “Ukraine is a very poor country, with a per capita GDP of only $3,877. The per capita GDP of the US is 51,704, so if you want to live like an average Ukrainian just imagine taking a 93% pay cut. And corruption? Fuggetaboutit. Ukraine ranks 144th out of 177 nations according to Transparency International, tied with Cameroon, the Central African Republic, Iran, Nigeria and Papua New Guinea. Tied with friggin Nigeria! This is the regime that Paul Craig Roberts and his ilk want to preserve.”

    But for Russian interference, this would not be the case and we should therefore be supporting Tymoshenko. Is that what we should believe?

  6. Thanks Plekhanov, and Jeppo, for some of the best and most encouraging comments on this thread. Jeppo wrote: ‘But the people in the largest and most aggressive group, who generally refuse to speak to journalists, are members of Pravy Sektor (Right Sector) an umbrella group of fascist, nationalist, football-hooligan and right-wing extremist gangs – some with neo-Nazi histories – which is generally considered to the right of Svoboda and which tends to be very secretive (…) What do the Right Sector leaders have to say about themselves? Aleksandr Muzychko is a notorious nationalist leader. Back in 2007 he pledged to fight against “communists, Jews and Russians for as long as blood flows in his veins,” openly saying that leading the fight against all of the above mentioned groups is his credo’. Despite my anti-Neocon rhetoric, I accept that there IS a true conservative, patriotic movement afoot there, and that the reality is very complex.

  7. My understanding is that the Blonde with the pleated hair is a Mischling!

    So there you are. explains some aspect of the Neo-con hard on for the coup.

  8. @plekhanov
    Mark Steyn? Really? Is pointing out an exception to a general rule, prove your claim? No it doesn’t. Pointing out exceptions to something everybody already knows proves you wrong.

    Thank you.

    And there is also Camp David. There is also Air Force One, etc, etc.

    Every adult knows that ostentatious displays, are how leaders of countries impress and intimidate other leaders. Its how they show how awesome their countries are.

    The Communists, which raised you on the politics of envy, were big on ostentatious displays too. The next leaders of Ukraine will do the same, because all leaders in history have done the same.

  9. jmf, on February 24, 2014 at 2:04 am

    So then, SNs supporting Putin are ignorant rubes.

    Oh yes. And “supporting” is just ethereal here — rather, it’s a cost-free idolizing. But people being seen as ignorant, uneducated, stubborn rubes admiring a dictator, will lose some essential support here, in funds or actions. My own money will go to the intelligent VDare.com, which is quite effective in fighting for my kin rather than to any morons who celebrate the man standing over the laws and find it admirable to put innocent people first in a steel cage, then, over the law, into the prison. Such a cute dictatorial elegance.

    We believe these events were instigated by rabbis walking around saying, “here’s $20 in jew-geld if you go commit suicide (pay you when you get back),” and the mob said, “ok we’ll do it!”

    I didn’t realize that “you” (using your “we” — I don’t mean you personally) are that super-ordinarily stupid and evil. Now that I see it, I am moving way away from “you” in my thinking and support. I don’t wish “you” luck. “You” are scum.

    The concept is especially laughable…

    You should realize that there is a lot of Jews in Ukraine, always have been. You should realize that there are a lot of Jews in Russia, who made the Russian culture and science what they have been, who made enormous contributions to the country’s achievements. Only in Russia, ethnic Jews have been either atheists or Christians. You can’t remove Jews from the Russian or Ukrainian life.

    Here — a pro-Russian super-very-heavy-weight-for-years a “Russian crooner” and “Deputy of the Russian State Duma”:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Kobzon.

    Click on the link, do yourself a favor, but I’ll paste in a small bit:

    Kobzon was born to Jewish parents… in the Donbass region of Ukraine.

    Kobzon has a reputation for his readiness to help others. He has earned enormous respect amongst Russians for committing substantial sums of his personal wealth to help thousands of Russia’s poor and unfortunate, including the funding of numerous orphanages around the country.

    Kobzon has been active in Russian politics, since 1989. He is probably the most experienced Russian MP, and also the one who gets reelected with the largest margin in the country’s history.

    Who is he, a Russian, Ukrainian or Jew? All of it. And a Putin supporter, no doubt. Now, can’t you see how “J*ws support Putin”? It’s a crazy thing to boil down all events in life, especially in that region of the world, to “The J*ws”.

    The person who, time after time shares his pride that he is 25% Russian doesn’t even realize that if his grandparent was able to immigrate to the USA, he or she was of a Jewish extraction with an overwhelming probability. But the Soviet Jews listed themselves as Russians in those days.

    So, congratulations, Jack Ryan, we’ve just outed another J*w here!

    The nationalist Ukraine solution, Yulia Tymoshenko… …we should therefore be supporting Tymoshenko. Is that what we should believe?

    Timoshenko is a complicated topic. She was cheered greatly by the Ukrainian people two days ago. Good enough for me. I don’t believe she comes to the power after the May 25th elections. And in any case, Ukraine just returned to the 2004 Constitution, which greatly reduces the President’s role and makes the Parliament the true governing body.

    No need to support Timoshenko in any case — support the people, don’t support the dictators of any color.

  10. JohnH on February 24, 2014 at 4:00 am
    Mark Steyn? Really?

    JohnH: You speak like Nancy Pelosi, are lazy, illogical and ignorant. That’s a good reason for me not to read or reply to your postings anymore.

    Others may enjoy them. Regards and have a good day.

  11. My thoughts are Red Sector followers have been tricked by much smarter people, that know how to push the buttons of Eastern Europeans.

    Ideally Putin would have gone nationalist a long time ago, instead of throwing all his nationalists in prison. If he had gone nationalist, Ukraine would not have splintered and been handed to the globalists on a silver platter. And of course Russia would have 100% loyal White people in power.

    Ah well… Enjoy your “diversity” plekhanov, because your new EU masters are going to give it to you and good.

  12. JohnH,

    Enjoy your “diversity” plekhanov, because your new EU masters are going to give it to you and good.

    Are you reading your own comments? Putin is not a nationalist and indeed has jailed Russian white nationalists by the 1000s. Given those facts, what do you think the Ukraine will “get good” from the EU that they would not also get from a pro-immigration, pro-Muslim, anti-nationalist and philo-Semite like Putin? Your point does not make sense because they won’t get anything from the EU that Putin has not already been giving his own ethnic kin.

    I said from the beginning that if Ukraine’s only real choice is vassal status under Putin or vassal status under the EU arm of the Judeo-American Imperium, and that true independence is not an option for Ukraine at this time, then veering toward the EU makes sense on economic grounds. One lesson here is that if you don’t want to push people into the orbit of the Judeo-American Imperium, then provide for their basic needs.

  13. As usual, Ex National Review writer John Derbyshire has very good analysis on Ukraine.

    http://takimag.com/audio/derbradio140222.mp3

    Too many current “nationalists” are living in the past, nursing some historic grievance against some other closely related White nation/ethnic group. It’s very similar to Irish Americans watching Mel Gibson movies and pretending the Irish Potatoe famine happened last year and then using this as a justification to hate us Traditional White British Americans, going with the lie that Irish Americans are another “oppressed minority” and thus should align with Lib Democrats along with Blacks, Jews, homosexuals, third world people of color and we should welcome tens of millions of “Catholic” Mexicans because, well the mean evil RACIST Nativist Brit Americans used to look down on our great grandfathers. What utter rubbish!

    The IRA used to bomb shopping malls in England under the propaganda line that they were freeing Northern Ireland from British colonial oppression, then IRA leader Garry Adams gets outed welcoming Black Nigerian immigrants to Ireland.

    A lot of the foolish White vs White hatreds, name calling is based on just releasing pent up frustrations that Whites can’t say, let alone do anything about the atrocities committed against our people by Black criminals, Muslim rape gangs etc – but it’s OK to attack The Russians, Brits, Yankees, WASPs etc.

  14. I do not agree with Plekhanov, after all, since this revealing comment: ‘You should realize that there are a lot of Jews in Russia, who made the Russian culture and science what they have been, who made enormous contributions to the country’s achievements. Only in Russia, ethnic Jews have been either atheists or Christians. You can’t remove Jews from the Russian or Ukrainian life’: http//www.occidentaldissent.com/2014/02/22/ukraine-crisis/comment-page-2/#comment-2467006

  15. Many aspects of Ukraine crisis covered by Raimondo.

    For the sake of generating discussion.

    http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/02/23/coup-in-kiev/

    (snip) It would be easy to dismiss the protesters as pawns in just another of a long line of US-sponsored “color revolutions” aimed at the states of the former Soviet Union – and Putin, Washington’s chief antagonist in the international arena. After all, evidence of direct financial and political support to the Ukrainian opposition is a matter of public record, and there is no doubt more we don’t know about.

    Yet no one can deny the Ukrainian people have suffered under competing gangs of outright thieves: politicians who are merely extensions of this or that “oligarch,” i.e. the post-Communist elite who looted “public” industries under the guise of a phony “privatization.” The best example is the most well-known: Yulia Tymoshenko, who stood on the stage at the Maiden and hailed the victory of the glorious “revolution.” (snip)

    The same goes for the “dissidents” who have taken over Kiev: many of these “heroes” – as Tymoshenko calls them – are militant neo-Nazis, with several shades of ultra-nationalists well-represented. There is Svoboda, formerly known as the “Social National” party, which idolizes World War II Nazi-collaborator Stepan Bandera, who fought on the side of Hitler’s SS against the Red Army. The leader of Svoboda was once expelled from Parliament for calling pro-Russian leaders agents of “Moscow’s Jewish Mafia.” Then there is the “Right Sector,” a gang of football hooligans which is openly fascist and has been used as the “muscle” of the movement as the insurrectionists took over public buildings and fought the police in the streets.

    The chief rabbi of Ukraine has declared the country unsafe for Jews and is urging them to emigrate: he says the Israeli embassy is telling them not to leave their homes because Jews are not safe in the streets. No wonder Spanish neo-Nazis are marching in support of their Ukrainian “brothers”! (snip)

  16. plekhanov says:
    “February 23, 2014 at 3:11 pm “the current power in the independent nation of Ukraine. The people. The white people, in case your”

    The new party and leader democratically elected; A Hitler in 1933. The country was in shamble, high unemployent,iflation, bitterness rivals, and corruption. Yet they manage without resorting to molotov, burning up buildings which the opposition of motley crew have done.

  17. Mosin Nagant says:

    ‘I do not agree with Plekhanov, after all, since this revealing comment: ‘You should realize that there are a lot of Jews in Russia, who made the Russian culture and science what they have been, who made enormous contributions to the country’s achievements. Only in Russia, ethnic Jews have been either atheists or Christians. You can’t remove Jews from the Russian or Ukrainian life’:’

    Yes Mosin, it was revealing.

    Russia is riddled with Jews in places of authority. Not just atheists or Christians.

    Plenty of religious jews have the ear of Putin.

    Wiki: Since the installation of Rabbi Lazar as the Chief Rabbi of Russia by the Federation of Jewish Communities there have been a number of controversies associated with Federation influence with president Vladimir Putin, and their funding from various Russian oligarchs, including Lev Leviev and Roman Abramovich. Lazar is known for his close ties to Putin’s Kremlin.

    Putin became close to the Federation after a number of Jewish oligarchs and rabbis including Vladimir Gusinsky (the founder of the Russian Jewish Congress), backed other candidates for president. Lev Leviev, a Federation oligarch supported Putin, and the close relationship between them led to him supporting the federation

    nomination of Lazar as Chief Rabbi of Russia, an appointment that Putin immediately recognized.

    Rabbi Adolf Shayevich, who had been Chief Rabbi of Russia until 1998, argues that Lazar is only an appointee of the Federation and that he remains Chief Rabbi. What happened, he explains, “has nothing to with religion and everything to do with politics and business. The president invites him to receptions and does not invite me. I am not offended.”

    According to an editorial in the Jerusalem Post the reason why Lazar has not protested Putin’s arrests of Jewish oligarchs and their deportation is that “Russia’s own Chief Rabbi, Chabad emissary Berel Lazar, is essentially a Kremlin appointee who has been made to neutralize the more outspoken and politically active leaders of rival Jewish organizations.”

  18. Mosin Nagant, on February 24, 2014 at 4:28 pm: I do not agree with Plekhanov, after all, since this revealing comment…

    Dear Mosin Nagant, your comments are usually more substantiated than this. What part of the piece you quoted you don’t agree with?

    The achievements? Now, you name an area that you doubt my statement applies to, and I will try to throw in a few key names. The “atheists”? Here I can’t prove anything — this is my sense, with a view averaged over at least the Soviet period up to some recent days. I may be wrong if you extend the averaging to much earlier years. But who cares about those old times now? And can you prove the opposite? There is just no such statistics, could not be. I based this part of my comment on my personal observations and reading, not on a hard science — what would you base your counterexample on?

    On the “achievements” part, here is the list your “name”, Mosin, is on:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_inventors

    If you have a properly tuned eye, you will be able to estimate the share of the Jewish names on the list (I didn’t go to far, just browsed the top — that’s enough for me.) And also, many Jews in Russia had completely Russian names (I hoped to discover that Mosin was a Jewish name — “-in” often are, but no, the Nagant’s Mosin was a pure Russian. But then I spotted the list Mosin was on. Voila!…)

    I feel a negative connotation in your use of the revealing applied to my comment. Am I right? What makes you feel bad about it: did I say something untrue or everything I said was true, but you don’t like certain truths?

    Respectfully waiting for your reply.

    And Sam, for your clarification on (February 24, 2014 at 9:33 pm): Yes Mosin, it was revealing., too, if you don’t mind it.

  19. Russian Ships Arrive On Ukraine’s Crimean Coast As Fears Mount Over Russian Invasion In the Region By Christopher Harress
    on February 24 2014 5:21 PM

    According to Russian news site, flot.com, Russian military ships carrying soldiers have arrived on Ukraine’s Crimean coast in what some news reports and experts are claiming could be the early signs of a Russia coup in the hotly disputed autonomous region of the Crimea.

    Russia’s large landing ship Nikolai Filchenkov has arrived near Russia Black Sea military base of Sevastopol, which is a Russian operated-military base in the Crimea.

    The ship is reported to be carrying as many as 200 soldiers and has joined four additional ship carrying an unknown amount of Special Forces troops. Flot.com also reported on the February 22/23 that personnel from the 45th Airborne Special Forces unit and additional divisions had been airlifted into Anapa, a city on Russia’s Black Sea coastline. However, it is believed that Russia’s Sevastapol base cotnains as many as 26,000 troops, according to the German Institute for International And Security Affairs.
    Further, it remains to be seen if a weakened Ukraine that is in the midst of a full scale revolution can respond to the Russian military developments or if NATO will take the United States’ line by telling Russia to stay clear of the region.

    However, a Russian invasion of the Crimea seems to be popular with the largely Russian population of the Crimea after a flurry of pro-Russian protests have called for Russian intervention.

    Aside from the Crimea, there are concerns from the United States and European governments that Russia could attempt a much larger intervention in Kyiv and restore a Russian-friendly government.

  20. Sam:

    “Yes Mosin, it was revealing.
    Russia is riddled with Jews in places of authority. Not just atheists or Christians.
    Plenty of religious jews have the ear of Putin.”

    I’m sure you are correct. Is that surprising? Karl Marx was a Jew. Lenin also, ethnically at least. And Trotsky. Communism “is riddled with Jews in places of authority”. Likewise, the Frankfurt School. And our hero, Saul Alinsky.

    No one should believe the Ukraine is a case of Jews versus non-Jews. The presence of Jews in Russia does not prove the absence of Jews in the Ukraine, likely also riddled with them, and certainly the EU and the Obama administration, who are doing so much to provoke the confrontation, are riddled with them and probably led by them.

    And Plekhanov: your reading comprehension is quite limited, you are a nasty little troll, and here in the South we are quite able to withstand the bites of piss ants such as yourself.

  21. Time for me to engage in some good old-fashioned redneck, hillbilly, truck driving Bible thumping:

    “What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?”-Matthew 16:26

    “Once when Jacob was cooking some stew, Esau came in from the open country, famished. He said to Jacob, “Quick, let me have some of that red stew! I’m famished!” Jacob replied, “First sell me your birthright.” “Look, I am about to die,” Esau said. “What good is the birthright to me?” But Jacob said, “Swear to me first.” So he swore an oath to him, selling his birthright to Jacob. Then Jacob gave Esau some bread and some lentil stew. He ate and drank, and then got up and left.”-Genesis 25:29-34

    Evidently the White race is so thoroughly defeated and demoralized that the few left who still champion its existence, like plekhanov and Lew, think its morally justified for us to beg like dogs before our very enemies in order to satiate our stomachs. I can only shake my head in shame at the thought of our enemies looking at us beg before them with desperate cries of “please sir, I want some more!”

    Here in Amurrika, they’ve long-since built an entire army of obedient, submissive, white/European descended mutts that does things like, you know, THIS:

    http://chechar.wordpress.com/2011/12/10/hellstorm-book-review/

    But don’t pay any attention to that! The infinite bowl of stew from Amurrika and the EU totally makes it cool for the Ukrainians to run to them! They’ll be fed! They’ll be “taken care of” by their ever-generous masters in Washington, London, Berlin, etc. Who could POSSIBLY object to that? You must be a nihilist “paleocon” if you object to seeing your own race completely OWNED lock stock and barrel by the same Amurrikan and European forces that did what Goodrich documented in “Hellstorm.”

    Yes, Jeppo, we want to see Mordor and Isenguard razed to the ground. What, pray tell, is so wrong about that?

  22. @plekhanov: Yes, it’s true that I didn’t like the comment about the Talmudists’ important scientific contributions. and other contributions — and about the ‘Christianity’ of some — and the view that they are inextricably linked with (‘cannot be separated’ from) Gentile Russians and Ukrainians.

    By ‘revealing’, I meant that the comment makes you appear as an appreciator, if not an admirer, rather than an opponent of Talmudism.

    But thanks for confirming that Sergei Mosin was a NON-Jewish Russian. One objection to the choice of screen name has been that ‘It’s the name of a Bolshevik, Jewish rifle’ — however the use of Mosins antedated the Soviets by decades in Russia; and the Finns also manufactured them, and refined them and used them to defeat the Soviets; and some were even manufactured in the United States and delivered in 1917 to support the Whites fighting against the Bolsheviks. Another objection is that the song of the Jewish partisans, Zog Nit Keyn Mol, included the verse: ‘This song a people sang amid collapsing walls, with Nagants in the hand’. However, this referred to the Nagant revolver, not the ‘Mosin-Nagant’ — and in Russia, and in the USSR, the rifle was always called simply ‘Mosin’, never ‘Mosin–Nagant’.

  23. Dan Poole, Bible ‘thumping’ (preaching, exhorting) is always in season, and relevant to every issue of life and every topic discussed on OD.

  24. plekhanov says:

    ‘And Sam, for your clarification on (February 24, 2014 at 9:33 pm): Yes Mosin, it was revealing., too, if you don’t mind it.’

    I’d rather not get into that tonight. On some pain medication for an injury and would rather not discuss or even think about jews.

    I’m in enough pain as it is, thank you.

  25. jmf, on February 25, 2014 at 2:06 am:

    Plekhanov: your reading comprehension is quite limited, you are a nasty little troll, and here in the South we are quite able to withstand the bites of piss ants such as yourself.

    I don’t agree with most of what you said but I wish the South all the luck, sincerely. Watch less football over there — it makes your big dreams no good!

    Dan Poole, on February 25, 2014 at 2:28 am:

    the few left who still champion its existence, like plekhanov and Lew, think its morally justified for us to beg like dogs before our very enemies in order

    I suspect you consider us “bad”. Unfair then but I take no offense — I mostly like your stances, Dan Poole — and good luck to you, too!

    Mosin Nagant, on February 25, 2014 at 3:02 am:

    Yes, it’s true that I didn’t like the comment about the Talmudists’ important scientific contributions. and other contributions

    But you can’t say I was wrong — you just didn’t like that truth, right? Neither do I but I have to admit it to myself, first. And second, try to cool down some excessive love to the Russians, which people unfamiliar with Russia often display. Russia is a big complicated place, with a brutal past and present. Don’t rush to love anything just because it’s Russian — you may be deceived by the sound of it.

    I am trying to face the reality as it is, on the other hand. Over my life I’ve learned many discomforting news and in the end am better for it.

    and about the ‘Christianity’ of some

    That is also true. Heard the popular Russians saying, “I am a Jew and a Christian”. Not under a threat, just in talking about their lives. It didn’t shock me. Russia used to be a very tolerant country.

    and the view that they are inextricably linked with (‘cannot be separated’ from) Gentile Russians and Ukrainians.

    How would you separate them?

    Your read a news story in Russian and it’s full of the actors on the same scene, on the same side — and often, both Russian and Jewish names.

    You look among the beloved writers — and both Russians and Jews are there. A tough question: Who was Pushkin?…

    The music scene is full of “them”. The theater, likewise. Science, engineering — you bet!

    By ‘revealing’, I meant that the comment makes you appear as an appreciator, if not an admirer, rather than an opponent of Talmudism.

    Why not appreciate what deserves an appreciation — the achievements, talents, the ability to learn and work?

    And consider the following.

    Jews can be influenced by a reasonable argument. Many of them are naive politically and historically — there was some interesting material on this at VDare.com written by a Jewish lady from NYC. But most are not hopeless. They won’t call me a nasty little troll or piss ant, they will listen and think. Those to whom I choose to talk. I haven’t seen any Jew from Russia or Ukraine who’d favor the BRA, so why would I alienate them rather than try to make them think correctly?

    Do you want to preserve this land as an Occident — the Western people and the culture? Have you been attacked at night by a group of blacks? I’ve been motivated and want more allies. “Appreciating” — giving the due and being fair to — the Jews doesn’t hurt my goals.

    But thanks for confirming that Sergei Mosin was a NON-Jewish Russian.

    He was certainly a “NON”: I know the area where he was born and a bit of his biography. A NON-Jewish Russian, I am sure.

    One objection to the choice of screen name has been that ‘It’s the name of a Bolshevik, Jewish rifle’

    Nonsense: it was used before WWI, and then over and over, by all sides, as you noticed. A great rifle.

    This song a people sang amid collapsing walls, with Nagants in the hand… However, this referred to the Nagant revolver, not the ‘Mosin-Nagant’

    Right, no Russian would call the rifle a “Nagant” (in fact, in Russia, I never heard it pronounced or written with the “t” at the end. It was always just a “Nagan”. Cyrillic won’t be posted here, so take a look at the title (a quote from the great http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayakovsky) here: http://porto-fr.odessa.ua/index.php?art_num=art031&year=2006&nnumb=30 or here (interesting pictures): http://samlib.ru/c/chekmarew_w_a/ljudiinagany.shtml

    and in Russia, and in the USSR, the rifle was always called simply ‘Mosin’, never ‘Mosin–Nagant’.

    Yes, you are the first I heard the combination “Mosin-Nagant” from. Strictly speaking, I never heard “Mosin” used alone but always in the combination “Vintovka Mosina” (Mosin’s Rifle).

    Thank you Mosin Nagan — I regret your view of my comment but you explained your reasons clearly.

    Sam, on February 25, 2014 at 3:13 am

    I’m in enough pain as it is, thank you.

    Get well soon, Sam!

  26. Here is an excerpt some observations made by visiting Polish nationalists in Kiev, that I found on the BNP website. From their report, it seems that Right Sector and Svoboda were the ones who “got the job done”. The entire report is well worth a read, but this is the most interesting part:

    “Ukrainian nationalists in the struggle for power went a revolutionary way, in the literal sense of the word. Their tactic is “Leninist”: attacking field structures of government, then after their acquisitions to create there their own headquarters.

    Hence in the capital of Ukraine part of the offices is now under the control of national revolutionaries. This was the fate of Kyiv City Council, where after the forced eviction of councillors, the committee of the nationalist party “Swoboda” was formed.

    From the building of the Council looks down at us portrait of Taras Shevchenko, drawn in a cartoonish style. Before entering, the sentries shall check the documents, but the mere sight of a Polish passport acts as a pass. The guards outside give impression of the “folk militia”, with their fur hats and colourful, ortalion pants, but inside the building we immediately encounter a uniformed nationalist battalion.

    With their military uniforms and tactical vests, we see “Black Sun” emblems, along with symbols of neo-banderism.

    Building of the council-chamber was transformed into something between a Greek-Catholic temple, the altar of Stiepan Bandera and a revolutionary headquarters for the management of revolutionary territory.

    In the rows of chairs, supporters pray for a success of revolution, and by the way they can get a little warm. At long benches arranged against the wall-uniformed staff officers in balaclavas are working.

    Between them sneaks a Greek-Catholic priest in a German military jacket over a black habit. Rostrum was transformed into an altar, dominated by the large portrait of Bandera.

    Buildings occupied by the rebels are connected to the internal network with cables, making it easy to contact and harder to interrupt.

    Cables are installed up to date and discreetly pulled through the walls, and hung over the streets. Someone is constantly working at computer stations, messages are collected from the area, the situation is also monitored via the Internet. Ukrainian nationalist squads operating in the streets keep in touch via walkie-talkie.

    Daily estimated cost of this revolution is alarming. Zone governed by the opposition looks like well managed insurgent stronghold.

    The streets leading from exterior concentrically towards the area controlled by the rebels have been strengthened by barricades, sometimes reaching a height of the second floor.

    They are decorated with the Ukrainian national flags, banners of nationalist party emblems, symbols of the Belarusian opposition, barbed wire and reinforcement bars.

    There are also flags of EU and U.S., as well as the colours of the Syrian rebels and Chechen. Banner of neo-conservatis “Polish Gazette” hangs next to a tent with painted inscription “UPA”, in front of a portrait of Bandera.”

  27. I beg to differ Dan. You appear to be another one who doesn’t want to address the facts about Putin, including his personally grooming a Jew as his heir apparent, his open borders policies, his support for multi-culturalism, his signing of laws that make it illegal to crticize Islam, his alignment with Jewish oligarchs and Western financiers, his pursuit of “Eurasianism,” and his jailing of Russian white nationalists.

    Good lord. When the Ukrainian nationalist factions that have freakin’ Nazi roots prefer the US-Jew led EU over Putin, it ought to tell you something. Try thinking on it a bit.

  28. Plekhanov and Jeppo:

    If the Ukrainian nationalists are flying Chechen and Syrian Al-Qaida flags, doesn’t that seem like anti-Russian hatred taken to absurd extremes? The kind of petty nationalism that caused WW1 and got us into this mess in the first place?

    For my own part, I am a well-wisher of all east Slavic people, but I pity them, caught between the too-clever-by-half Eurasianism of Dugin in Moscow and the dumb-as-bricks Russophobia of Right Sector in Lvov.

    Here in the west the right might not run the show, but at least we’ve produced men like Buchanan, Le Pen and Haider who, if given power, wouldn’t fuck up. And at least one honest intellectual, Kevin MacDonald.

  29. “Jews can be influenced by a reasonable argument. Many of them are naive politically and historically — there was some interesting material on this at VDare.com written by a Jewish lady from NYC. But most are not hopeless.”

    Yes, the powerless middle class Jews can be quite reasonable.

    But Jews with power, billionaires, politicians, and heads of major Jewish organizations, are unanimously hostile to the well being of White Christian peoples.

  30. Lew, on February 25, 2014 at 6:26 am

    … doesn’t want to address the facts about Putin…

    All true. Putin supporters here rather call the realists piss ants than to face the inconvenient reality.

    Whites Unit, on February 25, 2014 at 6:51 am

    If the Ukrainian nationalists are flying Chechen and Syrian Al-Qaida flags, doesn’t that seem like anti-Russian hatred taken to absurd extremes?

    Perhaps. But I am afraid you don’t know the Russia and Russian well enough to realize the causes for such extremes.

    The kind of petty nationalism that caused WW1 and got us into this mess in the first place?

    This wonderful book:

    http://www.amazon.com/July-1914-Countdown-Sean-McMeekin-ebook/dp/B00BPY5PLY

    convincingly shows that Russia was the primary culprit in starting WWI.

    And this even more wonderful book:

    http://www.amazon.com/Chief-Culprit-Stalins-Grand-Design-ebook/dp/B00BKRWZIM

    will tell you about the Soviet Union and WWII.

    Talk about the absurd extremes after that.

    For my own part, I am a well-wisher of all east Slavic people,

    Me, too.

    but I pity them, caught between the too-clever-by-half Eurasianism of Dugin in Moscow and the dumb-as-bricks Russophobia of Right Sector in Lvov.

    Ditto.

    … And at least one honest intellectual, Kevin MacDonald.

    Yes. I also admire Brimelow, Derb and Steyn.

    Whites Unite, on February 25, 2014 at 7:00 am

    Yes, the powerless middle class Jews can be quite reasonable.

    My main point.

    But Jews with power… are unanimously hostile to the well being of White Christian peoples.

    We should work on changing this. VDare.com’s stances here are right. The Southern people who spit out offenses to all who are not them and are not thousand miles away in the white dreamland of theirs are wrong and ultimately suicidal to their culture and heritage. “Unanimously hostile” to other non-mythical whites.

    I am done with commenting on Ukraine and probably on Russia. Good luck to you all. Read and think.

  31. The spin-doctors at work.

    Confederate flags? White supremacists?

    Oy!!! The horror!

    http://www.eurasiareview.com/25022014-us-eu-backing-neo-nazis-ukraine/

    Exposing troubling ties in the US to overt Nazi and Fascist protesters in Ukraine.

    As the Euromaidan protests in the Ukrainian capitol of Kiev culminated this week, displays of open fascism and neo-Nazi extremism became too glaring to ignore. Since demonstrators filled the downtown square to battle Ukrainian riot police and demand the ouster of the corruption-stained, pro-Russian President Viktor Yanukovich, it has been filled with far-right streetfighting men pledging to defend their country’s ethnic purity.

    White supremacist banners and Confederate flags were draped inside Kiev’s occupied City Hall, and demonstrators have hoisted Nazi SS and white power symbols over a toppled memorial to V.I. Lenin. After Yanukovich fled his palatial estate by helicopter, EuroMaidan protesters destroyed a memorial to Ukrainians who died battling German occupation during World War II. Sieg heil salutes and the Nazi Wolfsangel symbol have become an increasingly common site in Maidan Square, and neo-Nazi forces have established “autonomous zones” in and around Kiev. This images have been banned by both US and Western Media.

    If this is not dangerous enough, the man who wants to be in power Aleksandr Muzychko of the Right Sector group has publicly stated he would fight Jews and Russians until he dies.

  32. First I can’t get the HTML right, then I forget to blockquote everything. Take 4:

    Lew,

    Ever since February 2013 when I read on TOO what Igor Artemov said about his mother land:

    http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2013/02/putins-view-of-russias-national-future-migration-policy-and-residence-registration

    …I’ve tried to keep an even keel on my positive views of Putin. When he does the right thing like he did last September by blasting Amurrikan Exceptionalism and preventing a U.S. invasion of Syria (even if it was only a temporary prevention), than I think it’s okay to appreciate him for doing so. There are those who would refuse to say anything positive about Putin, and if they are Russian Nationalists like Artemov, then I’m in no position to blame them for that.

    My contention in re: The Ukraine situation is that Putin’s regime is nonetheless overwhelmingly preferable to the Amurrikan-EU regime. Here’s a quote from an article that Mindweapons in Ragnarok shared:

    I’ve spent the greater part of the last three years in Russia. It’s not the most comfortable place in the world, but not hell on earth, either. The weather is terrible as often as not. There is ice, snow, frost or mud on a level unimaginable to Scandinavians or Canadians. Beelzebub himself designed Moscow’s traffic jams. Granted, it’s a country where the bureaucracy can defeat a visitor as it begets a profusion of unnecessary hardships, all of which have helped to forge the indomitable Russian spirit. You’ll get no argument from me about that! But only someone who has lost all touch with reality could brand the lenient rule of liberal-conservative Putin as the “murderous and corrupt regime” of a gangster, when he has never executed anyone, holds an electoral mandate, and has yet to break up a single legal demonstration. Why, Russian liberal newspapers even write about his “bloody dictatorship” so often that it no longer shocks nobody, and they never lose their state subsidy or status ratings. The president loves being criticised. Leading Putin-bashing journalists like Masha Gessen or Alexei Venediktov meet personally with Putin and gain access to the Kremlin few Putin admirers can even dream of.

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/02/21/the-attacks-on-the-sochi-games/

    And then there’s this 1/28/14 article from the Washington Times:

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/28/whos-godless-now-russia-says-its-us/

    Granted, this could all just be hot air. Perhaps Putin’s rhetoric about Christianity, traditional values, and the decadence of the West is similar to a decade ago when George W. Bush was the heart throb of American social conservatives. Then again, nothing like this ever happened under Bush:

    “Freedom of religion is respected unevenly. A 1997 law on religion gives the state extensive control and makes it difficult for new or independent groups to operate. Orthodox Christianity has a privileged position, and in 2009 the president authorized religious instruction in the public schools.”

    http://www.freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2013/russia#.Uw0g-fldWSo

    It is the social and cultural superiority of Putin’s Russia that makes them strongly preferable to the soulless “economic superiority” of the Amurrikan-EU regime. GDP per capita doesn’t mean jack if your soul is deadened by materialism.

    Now then, as I just discovered when I went over to Mindweapon’s blog, apparently we might have all underestimated the gumption of the Ukrainian nationalists:

    http://mindweaponsinragnarok.com/2014/02/24/ukrainian-nationalists/

    This would be a shocking coup, and it would most certainly result in the Western Media doing an immediate about-face and clamoring for Kosovo Bombing 2.0. But since that news just broke, and since we were all operating under the reasonable assumption that the choice for the Ukrainians was between Putin’s Russia and Amurrika-EU, I still maintain my stated position.

  33. Dan Poole, on February 25, 2014 at 11:26 pm:

    My contention in re: The Ukraine situation is that Putin’s regime is nonetheless overwhelmingly preferable to the Amurrikan-EU regime.

    It’s not a given that the third choice is absent — “neither”. OTOH, it be harder for you to prefer Putin’s regime to anything if you were more current on its features.

    I’ve spent the greater part of the last three years in Russia. It’s not the most comfortable place in the world, but not hell on earth, either.

    Especially if you are a foreigner, don’t have your children in the mess and can get out any time. Not everybody’s option.

    Beelzebub himself designed Moscow’s traffic jams.

    … and you are in Moscow, not in a provincial hell-hole.

    liberal-conservative Putin as the “murderous and corrupt regime”

    Who calls the regime “murderous”? Is “and” not a “disingenuous known tactics” here?

    has yet to break up a single legal demonstration.

    I think he has, not once. These were published yesterday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5JtVG-pAhA&feature=youtu.be, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW2m8wo1wZ8.

    Russian liberal newspapers

    Which Russian liberal newspapers? (Mind you, you quote something written a long year ago.)

    The president loves being criticised. Leading Putin-bashing journalists like Masha Gessen or Alexei Venediktov meet personally with Putin and gain access to the Kremlin few Putin admirers can even dream of.

    You will love this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masha_Gessen.

    And read to the middle of this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26239715:

    Ekho Moskvy’s long-serving editor, Alexei Venediktov, has described Mr Fedutinov’s removal as “unjust and dishonest” and a “totally political decision” intended to put pressure on Ekho’s editorial policy, which he insisted would remain unchanged. However, Mr Venediktov’s position may not itself be secure as he is up for re-election next month.

    It is the social and cultural superiority of Putin’s Russia that makes them strongly preferable to the soulless “economic superiority” of the Amurrikan-EU regime.

    Google “moscow ramadan”, see the recent images, then dream on.

  34. Dan:

    You are correct that we should be circumspect in our enthusiasm for Putin. As with any public figure, and with any remote event, the information we have is second hand, fragmented, and possibly highly distorted. We should certainly let ourselves become so committed to our opinions that we cannot change them as new information comes to light. I do not think we need to be very diligent with respect to our view of the Ukraine. We are spectators at best and our opinions will have no impact whatsoever upon events there. Nevertheless, there are several good reasons to favor Putin:

    1. He is the enemy of our enemy, the EU. Who gave Obama a Nobel Peace Prize? And why? And who is vigorously degrading and decimating their own native white populations? What do they represent?
    2. He is manly and proud and shows Obama as the nigger queer that he truly is. Thanks to Putin, Americans are beginning to see that. We should see him as a role model.
    3. SNs yelping about secession should realize that if they ever come to the point where they are going to do more than talk about it, they are going to need some friends somewhere who are in a position to give them some “support”. Because they are not going to be allowed to just walk away because they whine pitifully and people feel sorry for them. They only will ever succeed because they have the power and no one can stop them, but they are going to need some help.

  35. plekhanov, you have expressed appreciation for my posts. Yet one of my fundamental disagreements with the southerners, most of them anyway, involves the jews. I and most racially aware northeasterners consider them the main fulcrum of our problems. You have delineated between an upper class strata of russian jews and a ‘neutral’ middle class one. I don’t see the jews as the slightest bit neutral. There really isn’t much of a middle class generally anymore in the US; most jews inhabit largely the upper class (and the government-funded middle one – the jews game the system in the northeast and I’d be happy to elaborate if anyone’s interested).

    In the alternative Ukrainian nationalist scenario you envision, where do you place the jews?

  36. NYYankees: after the 1918-1922 civil war, Stalin, Hitler, right of return, simplified immigration to Germany and to the USA, there just aren’t many Jews in Ukraine left. Formerly 50% Jewish towns usually contain only a few oldsters, the remainder being Ukrainians moving to town out of local villages and various ex-Soviet sorts who had been dispatched from around the USSR by the Soviet government and got stuck one way or another.

  37. NYYankees, on February 26, 2014 at 7:20 pm

    plekhanov, you have expressed appreciation for my posts.

    Of course, NYYankees: when doubtful, you engage in a reasonable inquiry, as you do here; your comments are logical and well worded. I’ll try to answer you with that in mind.

    Yet one of my fundamental disagreements with the southerners, most of them anyway, involves the jews. I and most racially aware northeasterners consider them the main fulcrum of our problems.

    I wouldn’t be able to recognize this a year ago but now I’d be ready to agree with you if only I understood what you meant by the word “fulcrum”. Aren’t you trying to hide behind an interesting word and avoid defining the exact meaning of what you had in your mind?

    You probably meant “the primary source and driving force” and I will proceed from there. By “you” I will understand some abstract white people in the U.S.A.

    Perhaps the Jews are “the main fulcrum”. But is it in your best interests to pick on them first? Are they the group that crashes and burns all around you? Can you win this contest?

    In the world around me, I see an incredible growth of the non-white population, some born here, some brought in from the overseas (thank ya W!), as the main threat to your existence. I go to a supermarket or mall and am surrounded by the third world any time of the day. I don’t have much desire to go to the places happily visited just a few years ago. I am being squeezed out.

    So, you focus on the ideological fight with the Jews, and the fight goes on for many years. Meanwhile, the growing third world around you leads to your untimely loss of health or life (perhaps without a violence — by catching tuberculosis brought in from afar.) At the same time, the Jews are fighting you, because you are fighting them. What is likelier here: your victory or defeat, i.e. your disappearance?

    OTOH, you wouldn’t feel physically threatened in the (real or imaginary) places with the high Jewish presence. You may know bad things about what the Jew Trotsky had planed for you but those plans are the history and you can imagine yourself being in the middle of the Jews for a long time without much discomfort. Even if uncomfortable inside, you will come back outside undamaged, right?

    The Jews are threatened by the same forces as you. They may begin to realize this soon. They may be realizing already their loss to the Oriental people in entering the good occupations, now that whole departments are taken over by other race-conscious groups. (They say that in high school orchestras the top players are mostly Chinese or Korean now.) The Jews are losing their positions to the Orients, and fast, but they are scared to allow yourself to think about it — brainwashed, well-intended and hopeful.

    Visiting bad places cures some naivete. Being surrounded by uniformly bad places, threatened by B.s and L.s and looked down by the Orients may cure the minds completely. (I am no expert but feel that the Jews who came here from the Soviet Union are raving racists — it is from them that I, a naive internationalist, got my first lessons on the B.-facing reality.)

    And their children are now not able to find a meaningful employment after all the nurturing, after all the money invested in them (a good four-year college, without a financial aid — $250,000. Add a private school or a residence in a costly place before that. Multiply by the number of the children. And then subtract all the opportunities lost to the cohesive Indians, for example.)

    We all are sitting in this cloaca now and the Jews are not immune to anything. They may have better chances than poor white boys from the South but the pool of the opportunities is shrinking and they have built a strong competition to themselves (rubes).

    Of all the people here in the USA, a White Person is of the least danger to them, is their natural ally — both are a part of the same Western World. And what does the White Person say? Instead of, “Let’s clean up this mess — don’t you realize that YOU are threatened, too?”, the W.P. says, “Let me do you something bad because you had created this mess.”

    What will the poor Jew do, where will the poor Jew go?

    Not in your arms — against you, stronger. When this weak threat is eliminated, the poor Jew will work on the next weakest competitor.

    (And the W.P. is a weak, stupid competitor: when in the 2008 election cycle the Southern “Book-lovers” choose McCain over Romney in the (stupid party) GOP primaries, for some “principal reasons”, I said, “It’s over for the USA. Self-adoring losers… They deserve what’s coming to them now.” Don’t feel that I was wrong then.)

    I want to be physically safe and be able to comfortably communicate to the people around me. I don’t have a reason to believe that my Jewish neighbor doesn’t want the same. So, I’ll try to behave in a way that makes us both want to prefer each other around rather than a large non-white family who dream of getting rid of the remaining Whitee.

    Fulcrum or not, you need to try and find what gives you and your kin better chances for survival and dignified, meaningful life.

    I am beginning to return to the point of view that the Jews are “like me” where our survival is concerned, and my survival is important for me.

    You have delineated between an upper class strata of russian jews and a ‘neutral’ middle class one.

    I did not: it was Whites Unite, on February 25, 2014 at 7:00 am. I didn’t disagree with him in my comment on February 25, 2014 at 12:58 pm:

    We should work on changing this. VDare.com’s stances here are right.

    (If you care, donate to VDare.)

    I don’t see the jews as the slightest bit neutral.

    I can’t generalize; I am neither positive about their attitudes in general nor totally negative. But how can I be against the heroes like Nicholas Stix at VDare? (I believe he claimed himself to be a Jew.) Somebody there (Derb?) has recently given a sample of Jews who are heroic in their defense of the Western World. Why not consider them as my allies?

    In my private life, I’ve got much more positive from the Jews (in the former USSR) than negative. Actually, I don’t remember receiving anything negative from them. A typical Soviet Jew might be a better person than a Russian or Ukrainian. Of course, Yuri Gagarin was a wonderful Russian but it’s a mistake to think that all the Russians are like him.

    Mark Twain said similar good things about a Jew. He was apparently writing a critical essay about Jews but I had to interrupt my reading in order not to become too pro-Jew. Hopefully, he said something really negative in the part that I haven’t read yet.

    There really isn’t much of a middle class generally anymore in the US;

    Right. The words “middle class” were written by Whites Unite: I just agreed to his comment, which is true in its spirit.

    most jews inhabit largely the upper class (and the government-funded middle one – the jews game the system in the northeast and I’d be happy to elaborate if anyone’s interested).

    Your definition of the upper class may be starting at a much lower mark than mine. I’ve seen (and was well treated by) the Jews in banking, engineering, as physicians and dentists. To me those are neither of the two class categories you’ve just mentioned.

    In the alternative Ukrainian nationalist scenario you envision, where do you place the jews?

    My familiarity with Ukraine is superficial for these purposes but if forced, my guess would be that they will be playing as “Ukranians” and “Russians”, without assembling in the Jews-only groups. You will be able to tell a Jew by his name or facial features but not so much by his actions, other than he might be a more reliable partner in any endeavor and have better human and business skills (read Mark Twain.)

    Is this long comment as “revealing” as the one where I claimed a significant Jewish contribution to most Russian achievements?

    Well, what’s true is true and should be recognized as such or else you are a loser and the loss will be once-in-a-lifetime.

    Somebody here (I doubt it were you but possibly, you) recently made a comment that if a free White republic appears on the current USA territory, it will be in the Pacific North. “Pacific” sounds unlikely to me, but North makes sense. If jmf is a typical Southeron as he implied in his reply to me on February 25, 2014 at 2:06 am:

    And Plekhanov: your reading comprehension is quite limited, you are a nasty little troll, and here in the South we are quite able to withstand the bites of piss ants such as yourself.

    and this comment is an indicator of a typical Southeron’s comprehension:

    jmf, February 26, 2014 at 3:29 am:


    1. He is the enemy of our enemy, the EU. Who gave Obama a Nobel Peace Prize? And why?
    2. He is manly and proud….We should see him as a role model.

    my bet is on the North. I’ve also had some other non-flattering familiarity with the South but I had meekly hoped the exposure was to its compromised part.

    Hope I’ve answered what you asked me about, NYYankees.

  38. Lew brought up living in palaces while the people starved. I can’t wait to see the results that come about with this Jewish banker running the Ukraine.

    *sarcasm on* Boy things are sure to improve now! *sarcasm off*

  39. Multiple Factions

    1. Crooks and oligarchs
    After the collapse of communism organisations like the IMF and World Bank went into the old Soviet Union saying they were going to help set up a free market economy but instead they looted it – or rather they took bribes to hand over Soviet state assets to various mostly Jewish gangsters – similar to what is happening in Greece now. This sent all their economies into a tailspin. Putin took over and reversed some of it in Russia but Ukraine is still currently in their grip. Putin’s guy, the ex Pres, was the least anti-Russian of those crooks.

    2. Ukraine nationalists
    Standard issue – generally the people patriots would support if it was a simple choice.

    3. Putin
    Not a nationalist but not owned and operated by the banking mafia like almost every other current national leader in the formerly White countries. Generally the person patriots should support on any issue if the other side is the EU or USUK.

    4. EU
    Blind, stupid, corrupt bureaucratic monster wanting to swallow up state after state.

    5. USUK
    Neocons and banksters – current rulers of USUK and bane of the entire planet and *always* the people to oppose no matter what.

    6. Soros etc
    Globalist Jewish billionaires playing their own games – more or less the same motivations as official USUK policy but sometimes operating way out in front.

    #

    so sequence

    1) Soros et al first, followed later by EUSUK, followed later by official USUK have been stirring Ukraine nationalists up against the crooks and oligarchs to get Ukraine nationalists to force out Putin’s crooked oligarch. It’s a con because all those three groups are pro their crooked oligarchs just against Putin’s oligarchs.

    2) The USUK gang successfully got the Ukraine nationalists to push out Putin’s guy and then stitched up the next government by putting their crooks in charge and sidelining the nationalists with things like sport minister and culture minister. If they win, USUK’s crooks and oligarchs will jail or kill all the nationalist leaders later (winning here meaning getting Putin to back down).

    3) Putin had to wait for this point to react and he’s doing it now in the east. He’s not going to let go of the Crimea because that’s where the Russian fleet is based – which is the closest base for Russian ships supporting Assad in Syria for example.

    4a) The best option – if they can both overcome their mutual hatred / mistrust – would be for Putin to help the Ukraine nationalists against USUK’s crooks in return for a slice of the east plus the Crimea going back to Russia.

    4b) The most likely option – pro-Russian militias in the east call for help and there’s a de facto partition and lots of bad blood between two groups who would be better off on the same side.

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