Why Women Reject White Nationalism

Where are the women?

Alabama

Editor’s Note: I wrote this article over two years ago. I was considering writing a new article about the subject, but nothing ever changes in the White Nationalist movement, and everything that I said below is as true today as it was back then.

I bring this up now only because the issue has resurfaced. I’ve long since moved on from White Nationalism. I have also made my peace with the movement and honestly I have nothing further to say about it.

Lately, I have been hearing the same stories from racially conscious women about the White Nationalist movement – they value their race and are eager to participate and do their part to “secure the existence of our people and a future for White children,” but they are alienated and disillusioned by some of the “wounded soldier” type rhetoric that they see at WN conferences and on the internet.

Before I am accused of picking a fight, I want to emphasize here lots of White Nationalists like James Edwards and Richard Spencer are happily married. I also couldn’t be happier with my own relationship. In spite of this, there is still a very loud group of these “wounded soldiers” out there – think of Lieutenant Dan in Forrest Gump – who have had bad experiences with American women in general, and it is a problem attracting and keeping women involved in the movement.

I bring this up because women are indispensable to any movement that seeks to “secure the existence of our people and a future for White children,” and there are attractive young women who I know who are being repulsed by these types, and I would much rather see them end up with some of my bright racially conscious friends than with the losers they are meeting in bars.

Why aren’t more women involved with the White Nationalist movement?

There is a conversation going on about this in the comments. It is such an interesting topic that it warrants a separate thread. Everyone who has attended a White Nationalist conference has noticed that men are always drastically overrepresented.

Why is that?

Dealbreaker #1: Because they are offended by the people who rail against White women on account of their bad experiences with dating and marriage. They shouldn’t have dated women like that anyway, but take out their sexual frustrations on all women with untenable generalizations.

Dealbreaker #2: Because of the HBD cogelite nerds who glorify Asian women and who denigrate White women. This is one of the biggest pet peeves.

Dealbreaker #3: Because of the aura of negativity that surrounds the White Nationalist movement. Most women can’t stand a constant drumbeat of negativity and self consciously avoid demoralizing websites.

Women like to see confidence in men. When they see men who have no confidence in themselves and who preach an “all is lost” political message, they instinctively turn away from a movement that they perceive as a bunch of losers, especially when they encounter a hostile atmosphere on pro-White websites.

Dealbreaker #4: Because White Nationalism attracts a disproportionate number of geeky, socially awkward males who have Asperger’s syndrome or who are creepy in some way as well as the homosexual misogynists who are on the warpath against women.

Dealbreaker #5: Because there is a lot of crossover between the Men’s Rights community and White Nationalism and this is a turn off to women who are culturally conservative and therefore more likely to be Christians.

Dealbreaker #6: Because the vast majority of women who qualify as “traditional” in America are strongly Christian or religious in some way. They are turned off to White Nationalism because of the atheism, misogyny, and lewd discussions about women on White Nationalist websites.

Anyone who goes to church knows that there are far more “traditional” women than men in America. Among women, it is fashionable in some circles to save yourself for marriage, whereas few men think that way these days. A respectable woman is not going to be dressed like a slut in some bar or club on the weekend.

Dealbreaker #7: Because women will always be less interested in politics than men. White Nationalism focuses heavily on politics and science and less on culture, family, and religion which are subjects which attract more conservative women.

Dealbreaker #8: Because women are more empathetic and are natural conciliators and thus mix like oil and water with the curmudgeons who are drastically overrepresented among White Nationalists.

Dealbreaker #9: Because some White Nationalists practice a type of effeminate political correctness and consciously go out of their way to elevate Asians and Muslims in particular over White Americans.

Feel free to take issue with any of the above positions. I have heard this view about White Nationalism from so many different women on so many different occasions that I am convinced it represents something of a consensus among traditional White women.

I wish someone would test this theory by creating a pro-White website with these dealbreakers in mind: exclude the HBD nerds who glorify Asian women, the negative curmudgeons, the “all is losters,” the creepy weirdos, the embittered misogynists, the effeminate homosexual intellectuals, and the Neo-Nazi atheists on a jihad against Christianity.

The website would need a good editor that would balance political discussion with a hefty complement of articles about culture, religion, and family. There would also have to be more talk about ethnicity and pocketbook issues.

I would bet money that would solve the problem. In fact, I predict that racially conscious women would start coming out of the woodwork because women are more social than men and would be attracted like moths to a flame to other women who share their views and who are potential friends.

It should be interesting to see what kind of feedback this post receives in the comments. I think I am onto something here.

Note: Richard Spencer addressed the same issue in a video at Trad Youth.

About Hunter Wallace 9333 Articles
Founder and Editor-in-Chief of Occidental Dissent

54 Comments

  1. I think Matt Forney had a very interesting take on why women don’t embrace the manosphere, white nationalism, and similar alt-right movements.

    Women subscribe to liberalism because liberalism is the dominant paradigm. Women, at their core, and herd creatures, and will always follow so long as men take the lead.

    As Forney put it, if Pat Buchanan were to be elected president overnight and alt-righters to take over congress and the media, most women would become “bitter, racist, sexist, homophobes” overnight.

    If WN’s want women to join their movement, then they need to start taking the lead and demonstrating that their movement is viable. They need to start acting like winners.

    Women in places like India face no shortage of socially awkward, creepy, and”misogynistic” men, and yet they are far more conservative and play a role in preserving Indian culture, because liberalism does not wield the same power there. Men over there also lay down the law.

    http://occidentinvicta.com/2013/07/08/women-and-culture-where-western-women-fail-miserably/

  2. Let’s suppose in the next life you had a choice of coming back as male or female. Rear at least 5 or 6 offspring; excruciation pain of 8 pound infant. a bowling ball bursting out of the flesh. what would you choose to be?

  3. “Let’s suppose in the next life you had a choice of coming back as male or female. Rear at least 5 or 6 offspring; excruciation pain of 8 pound infant. a bowling ball bursting out of the flesh. what would you choose to be?”

    Lame. Have you ever had a child? Most healthy mothers say they would do it again in a heartbeat. If I were a women I’m sure I would want to pop out a few. Why not? Got something better to do? Hate your own genes that much?

  4. For all the irate females who did not like my comments, I recommend Helen Thomas’s recently published book, “Men on Strike”. If they did not like hearing it from me, maybe they would like hearing the same arguments coming from her.

  5. Maureen Martin is yet another example of the female commenters on OD who show more common sense than the males. Maureen just wrapped this all up succinctly:

    “You have ‘moved on’ from WN yet still, you keep posting. WHATEVER.”

  6. Dealbreaker #10: Because white nationalism or ethnonationalism isn’t winning. And why isn’t it winning? A lot of reasons, not the least of which is that people who are already white nationalists or ethnonationalists, or people who are on the verge of becoming such, have allowed their minds to be prostrated to ideological cults of one sort or another. Once WN/EN starts winning, then the women will start showing up.

  7. Anyone who goes to church knows that there are far more “traditional” women than men in America.

    This makes no sense. Christian churches are hotbeds of liberalism these days, precisely because they are female-catering institutions.

  8. “why isn’t it winning?”

    It isn’t winning because despite our recent economic mess we are still immensely richer in a sheer material sense than all the generations that have gone before us. It’s going to take a lot worse situation than the present one to get the average proles to turn off their home theater systems and get their asses off the proverbial couch.

  9. Think of the Terminator series, primarily the first movie. Now, ignoring James Cameroon’s prerequisite grrrl power boot licking, there is a powerful truth contained in that story. What was Sarah Conner’s true worth tied up in? Her late grrrl power baddassery? Nope. It was that she was the mother of John Connor. Her true value to the resistance was distilled down to it’s essence: she birthed a warrior.

  10. This is all so very interesting… Differences of race and even species? Speaking about the science of women who love other humans as if it is a deficit of character. And if it were that, your “hypothesis” are idiotic at best. Evil when seen through. The African human has been oppressed and violently harrased by whites under the law for generations. And you are suprised that we are behind???? After slavery we sought to catch up and were reaching our family goals dispite hate and violence perpetuated by fools in sheets. But we have alway been met with sabotage by whitey at the apex of our unity and hard work during the 40’s and 50’s we were succesfully forced to move on from selling moonshine to heroin, cocaine and crack to our neighbors (many of whom were physically forced into addiction), in order for our prosperity to be thwarted and the plot had its success. But little did you fools know that we would even in a weaked mind state be able to capture the minds and hearts of your children. So that now even your homes have been affected by the degradation of the Black American. Your children are charmed by the music and culture of the Black American. It is yours as well who are now on heroin, crack, meth and the like. Single moms living in poverty raising disrespectful unintelligent offspring. That is why America falls. You were never willing to stand with us together to build this nation. And so devided we will fall. The problem began, ran, and end with you. In a few generations my science tells me you will be less than a minority. Maybe then we will lable you as a seperate species and put you on the endagered list and make a park for others to visit to see people with no color.

  11. Look at the Golden Dawn as it shows us right here and now on the ground what is succeeding.

    Golden Dawn has a lot of women. It’s because first of all the women in Greece are feeling real pain and hurt stemming from their crumbling economy and they are no longer safe with the boatloads of filth flocking in from Asia. Golden Dawn is offering real solutions to the problem in contrast to everyone else and they are speaking with an absolute tone of in your face aggressive masculinity and strength, something many nationalists in America shun.

    Second and most important, unlike a lot of male nationalists in the West, Golden Dawn is serious. Notice Golden Dawn doesn’t have long posts like these discussing why women aren’t joining them with a host of reasons that are immaterial and irrelevant. It’s because they are first focused on speaking the truth, laying the shit down and most of all they DON’T pander to anyone. This should be self evident to nationalists yet here we are on the 100th thread discussing why women wont join nationalism in America when we already know why. We already fucking know! Stop asking the same questions over and over expecting a different result!

    I’m not even going to go further as the rest is self evident to men who know what is going on and are waiting for leaders who actually know what to do and do not need to ask these questions.

  12. @Ulfric yeah, that’s pretty much what I was trying to say, thanks!

    The endless pontificating by many men in the movement from the safety of their computer chairs is frustrating to me as a WN woman. And I personally am active in real life so I’m not asking men to do something I won’t.

    I think most of the irritation of men is that they are having trouble finding suitable wives. I too am very concerned about this problem but I have faith that my White brothers will find a way to solve it. It certainly won’t be solved by endless whining.

    No offence intended here. I want the best for everyone. We all need to honestly assess how we are spending our time and ruthlessly cut out people or activities that are dragging us down and spend our days getting stronger and smarter….and helping our children, whether birthed from our own loins or not, to be strong and smart. I recommend two blogs, Mindweapons in Ragnarok and WN Think Tank for motivation. I’m not here to plug them but if one is ready to get out of the headache zone of inaction, I think these blogs would be helpful. 14.

  13. Re: ROBIN

    After the demise of slavery, blacks were successful in 1.) creating their own independent religious denominations, 2.) learning to read, 3.) acquiring their own land, and 4.) starting their own colleges and universities.

    Blacks never had any problem overcoming “the legacy of slavery.” The problems that blacks are still struggling with in our own times is due to “the legacy of freedom.” They are the same problems that free blacks in Haiti, the British West Indies, and the Northern states, not slaves in the South, were struggling with in the antebellum era.

    By the 1830s, free blacks in the Northern states were already notorious for idleness, vagrancy, criminality, poverty, and moral dissolution. The same was true of Haitians and the free blacks in the British West Indies after abolition.

  14. Re: Maureen

    The problem is that women who are already sold on WN ideas are unnecessarily alienated and disillusioned by some of the dysfunctional people and harsh rhetoric that they encounter on the internet or at WN conferences.

    It believe this is a tractable problem. The solution at conferences is better stage control. The solution on the internet is better moderation.

  15. The idea that white children are intrigued or “charmed” by black “culture”, is foul, preposterous, grotesque, and ridiculous. White children are charmed by comfortable homes, peaceful communities, material prosperity, altruistic idealism, and elite universities. Black children are “charmed” by drive-by shotings, looting, muggings, flash-mobs, welfare, 29 year-old grandmothers, and babies named “Shanequia”. Blacks, in short, have a culture of vulgar depravity, and whites are repulsed, not “charmed”, by it.

  16. Hunter writes:

    “It believe this is a tractable problem. The solution at conferences is better stage control. The solution on the internet is better moderation.”

    Jack replies:

    Agreed. In particular “our” conferences tend to do a terrible job with Q& A , where the microphone is given to any and all and fools go on some long rant, hobby horse, conspiracy theory nonsense, women bashing or just some long winded speech with no rhyme or reason. The solution is to have a Q&A moderator that takes the questions:

    “What’s your first name? Roughly where are you from? What do you do? What’s your (short) comment or question?”

    Then the question screener gives the question or comment to the stage. Anything really kooky, anti women is either not asked or is cleaned up.

  17. You know what a White Nationalist looks like when they try to placate women through having a stage-controlled presence? Rand Paul and Jack Hunter.

    There’s pleasing women, and then there’s victory. Victory pleases women, but pleasing women does not lead to the kind of victories we need.

    We live in a woman’s world of chaos and emotion. We want to live in a man’s world of order, law and justice. You don’t get there by giving a rat’s ass about what women think. Sorry. I love women. But I’m tired of living in a woman’s world. Woman’s World sucks eggs.

    • Re: Occigent

      There’s a difference between including women who already agree with us and making them feel welcome and pandering to women as an identity group.

  18. Another piece of advice:

    Don’t try to date or make “the movement” your whole life, social life. Do other things to meet nice White women – take a art history course, foreign language course, or my favorite, partner dancing.

    Politics is a man’s world. Sure, we’ve had a few tough White women leaders, but in general, leave the women at home…

    Church, kitchen, children

  19. Women don’t like being railroaded into some category that men have decided they should be in. If you drop the misogyny maybe more women won’t be so repulsed by the movement.

  20. If you’re changing your demeanor in order to make women feel welcome, you are pandering to them. It will have about as positive an impact on ground troop morale as having women in combat units.

    Hey L, ask all the women marrying Muslim men how they hate being railroaded into roles that have been designed for them.

    We ought to be more concerned with how to keep women out, not on how to make them feel more welcome. They can be a part of it to the extent their opinion is respected by the man they choose to marry.

  21. “Have you ever had a child? Most healthy mothers say they would do it again in a heartbeat. If I were a women I’m sure I would want to pop out a few.”

    All I’m saying is 9 month ordeal alters her lifestyle.There are some women are reluctant to get pregnant again.

    .

  22. @ Ulfric.

    Murka is nowhere near the poverty and joblessness of Greece. As long as the TV works and people are collecting food stamps, no one is going to stand up to do anything, women or no women. It is not nearly bad enough yet. And Greece has something to rally around that Murkans do not: an ethnic identity. With the exception of some places in the south, Murka is full of DWLs and half-breeds, brainwashed by the ‘we are all immigrants’ mantra.

    No, the squids will make sure we suffer a slow decline, a la the USSR, nothing too drastic to scare the horses. By that time, all our rights will be gone and we will be overwhelmed by the turd world.

  23. ROBIN wrote: “Your children are charmed by the music and culture of the Black American” — “charmed” in the sense that they are constantly exposed at very early, impressionable age. Someday they will experience nostalgia for the “RAP” sounds of their youth, “hip hop” clothing and urban scenery.

    Re: “I believe this is a tractable problem. The solution at conferences is better stage control. The solution on the internet is better moderation”:

    The solution is more CENSORSHIP (the Tea Parties do a LOT of that, and did it help them grow?) and SHOWMANSHIP — making things APPEAR to be as they might not REALLY be?

  24. We don’t need ANY more censorship and “stage management” or showmanship, but only courageous speaking of truth, and living of truth in spite of evil opposition.

  25. Hey Occigent, how about you remain calm and not jump all over the place when talking? Was Islam ever mentioned? Didn’t I just say that if you want to encourage women to stand up and see, you stop railroading them into these ideas of what women should be for your convenience? Misogyny doesn’t make women want to be a part of anything, for very obvious reasons.

  26. Dealbreaker #10: White Nationalism causes fights at family gatherings, which bothers women a great deal.

  27. Women will join the right wing when the right wing starts winning. But they will not join one minute before.

  28. Roger Devlin seems to be the leader of the anti-feminist branch of this movement. Even though I think he is a bit too harsh in the way he generalizes white women, I have come around recently to appreciate most of his writings. He brings up good points in regards to double standards that aren’t fair to men, and I agree that we need to examine these issues honestly. But today I came across this rant of his that I have posted below at the bottom of my comment. I call it a rant because that is what it is. I can’t believe he wrote this. Did he do this when he was angry?

    After reading this “rant” of his, I am left very confused. In most of his other writings he says women shouldn’t be getting degrees and working (which I agree with). But in this “rant” he contradicts himself and holds women accountable for not getting degrees and pulling their own weight while being married to a man.

    I understand the overall point he is making here. He is trying to shatter the double standards in our society, and I agree that they aren’t fair at all for men.

    But do we go about fixing that problem by generalizing most Western women in a bad way? Do we fix the problem by blaming women instead of our elites? Do we fix the problem by encouraging Western men not to get married? Do we fix the problem by making mountains out of molehills? Do we fix the problem by not holding men equally accountable for current relationship issues? Do we fix the problem by contradicting ourselves by saying women shouldn’t be working on one hand, but then in another article, when it suits our “rant”, we suddenly justify why Western women should be viewed as spoiled brats for not working when married?

    I hate to say it, but he commits all those fallacies in this piece here. I like most of what Mr. Devlin writes, but here I have lost respect for him. If you want to know why I am turned off by this movement, it is because of attitudes expressed in pieces like this, that seem to have huge fan clubs when examining the comments underneath:

    http://dontmarry.wordpress.com/

  29. Almost every point is spot on.

    And I must add that even though I do not like the direction the world is headed, I will fight unto my death to sustain the status quo rather than subjugate myself to “white nationalist” men.

    There really are no words to describe how low they are as a group.

  30. Hereby submitting response #498 to this post (will it reach 500?) on the ever-popular topic:

    Re: “rather than subjugate myself to white nationalist men”:

    Is “Lucius” the name of a woman?

  31. I’ve stayed off these man-woman relations posts before.

    “Subjugation” is not wrong or unpleasant at all, in the Biblical order: Christ the head of man, man the head of woman, the husband loving (and faithful to) his wife, the wife obedient (and faithful) to her husband, and children obedient to their parents, in the Lord — the PROVEN pattern for white existence!

  32. john thames says:

    August 3, 2013 at 7:52 pm

    Women will join the right wing when the right wing starts winning. But they will not join one minute before.

    john thames says:

    August 3, 2013 at 7:52 pm

    Women will join the right wing when the right wing starts winning. But they will not join one minute before.

    john thames says:

    August 3, 2013 at 7:52 pm

    Women will join the right wing when the right wing starts winning. But they will not join one minute before.

    john thames says:

    August 3, 2013 at 7:52 pm

    Women will join the right wing when the right wing starts winning. But they will not join one minute before.

    john thames says:

    August 3, 2013 at 7:52 pm

    Women will join the right wing when the right wing starts winning. But they will not join one minute before.

  33. Women are COLDLY, icily practical. They may not realize this – but it’s so. I believe it’s a biological MANDATE. Human children are not in full control of their motor skills until age 5. HEALTHY women seek the “best deal” in order to have the resources to raise children to adulthood – even if they do not EVER think about this.

    MOST Women, in the Dying West, have no idea that the West IS dying. They may know something’s not right – but they are oblivious to the real factors. Like most men are. Right now – the “Left” ADVERTISES the “best deal”. This is not true – but it’s all people know. So they go with the “best deal”.

    The White Movement has been WOEFULLY STUPID about PR, and attracting people. Until the White Movement STOPS listening to Asperger males, aka social RETARDS, and internal subversives – we will LOSE. White women do not HAVE to go to their own kind. By the time Whites, in general wake up – it may be too late.

    Women attract women. PERIOD. WN must look healthy, and fun. PEROID.

    So keep listening to guys who DON’T HAVE WOMEN. Yup. That’ll work.

    Hay Jack Ryan – what are you making me for lunch?

  34. Devlin can suck his own wee tool. White MEN ruled the entire world, less than a century ago – and White MEN threw it all away, with both hands.

    So Blamers of Females – OWN IT. And then STFU.

  35. Could you not have dispensed with all the ass-kisser beta whinging?

    And really, do you suppose you’re the first understand that money would bring in the women?

  36. ““Subjugation” is not wrong or unpleasant at all”…

    Easy to say since you’re a man.

    No thank you. You men can keep your white nationalism all to yourselves. And yes, Lucius is a woman. This one is anyway.

  37. Alex,

    That depends on your definition of “pro-white”. What specifically do you mean by that? I do not mind non-white people living amongst me in my country, so if that disqualifies me then I guess I’m not “pro-white”.

    I do not see what being positive about whiteness has to do with white nationalism either. I like white culture for the most part, but I hate white nationalism. It’s a male racial supremacist movement regardless of how it couches itself via soft peddling of the language, tone and message. White nationalists want to be separate from other races because they feel they are better than other races. And that’s the truth. And white women are expected to just flit around this movement like wayward groupies.

  38. “White nationalists want to be separate from other races because they feel they are better than other races. And that’s the truth.”

    That might be true of some of the urban-bred sort, but others want to be separate (and this desire is entirely natural and moral) NOT because they are proud of themselves and hate others but to conserve their own, white ethnic and local culture, religion, ancestral lands, family ties, etc.

  39. NFL Fans go gaga over the Tutsi and Hutu playing on the field. At the same time they don’t want them banging their daughters.Hypocretes.

  40. @Mosin

    You wrote, “…to conserve their own, white ethnic and local culture, religion, ancestral lands, family ties, etc.”

    And how does living amongst non-whites not allow whites to conserve these things? Whites CHOOSE not to conserve these things regardless of who lives amongst them. And maybe some of these things are not worth conserving in the majority of whites’ opinion. Have you considered that?

    @G Prune

    I’m celibate so no one “drills” my “hole”. I think you would appreciate the following blog: http://whitenationalistmen.wordpress.com/

    I found that in a Google search.

    As I said before, you white nationalist men do not need any women in your movement. As one white nationalist commented on truthmilitia.com, “Trying to “appeal” to women is an exercise in pointlessness. The alt-right’s focus should be on recruiting young men, the fuel of revolution…Don’t get me wrong: it’s not that women should be unwelcome, it’s that they’re unimportant. They are sideshows, not the main act.”

    Couldn’t have said it better myself.

    • How can you conserve your culture when you are a small and dwindling minority, with the media aggressively promoting race mixing and white self-hatred? How are we supposed to preserve our identity when it is effectively illegal to be openly pro white? We aren’t a minority yet, but if current trends persist, we will be soon. How well do you think Native Americans have preserved their culture? It is virtually extinct outside of tiny little reserves. They have no nation of their own.

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