47 Comments

  1. I think Mr. Cushman did very well.

    On the question of property rights, I would respond thus “I/We are firm believers in human rights, but forcing someone to to do business with someone else is a violation of their human rights.”

  2. Mr. Hartmann is fond of saying that Scontland and Catalonia were separate nations that fought wars against each other, well the North and the South have fought wars to include antecedent wars like the English Civil war, the wars between Protestants and Catholics generally.

    I would also be quick to turn the tables and ask would you deprive Texans of a right you would defend for the people of Tibet or Palestine or South Sudan?

  3. it’ s also a violation of my property rights. just another gift from those vile people to the Southron White man

  4. I am grateful to Mr. Hartmann for asking tough questions which force the issue, I wouldn’t call him “sneaky” but he has common biases that we are going to have to confront, especially in a non-binding referendum.

    I believe Mr Giles from RFM also tries to do the same to put people “on the spot”, and that is a good opportunity to strengthen ones argument.

    Recall Mr. Linder’s inability to handle a scenario where instead of killing a faceless abstract “Jew”, he was confronted with killing a 6 year old girl. Tough questions help a debater know where he really stands. For instance, what will you do with the blacks? The answer, for the moment, is nothing at all! Which is a very white-and-normal answer.

    I believe that in time, an India-Pakistan style Partition would have to carve out such areas, but that is not something for the here and now.

  5. Nope, can’t really make the case for secession without that word that starts with an ‘n’ and people don’t say it out loud.

    Why do we not like the Federal government? Because they force us to do certain things.

    Like what?

    Like integrated schools and other affirmative action.

  6. Am listening… pretty funny Hartmann says private property and freedom of association are code words for not wanting blacks there.

    He simply assumes blacks don’t want freedom of association or property rights. What a closet racist, right? lol

  7. Great video. I also wondered about that “what would you do with” blacks, mestizos, etc. Nothing! They can “self-deport,” Romney-style as soon as they see the gravy train has come to a screeching halt.

  8. Great interview. Had never heard of Harmann, so looked him up. Second Generation American—- which seemed probable since he says he finds “this whole world view fascinating….”

    Recent immigrants such as himself WOULD find it unusual as probably, he’s never even met Generational Americans such as Michael. In his case, sounds as if his grandparents did not even know any English. While his bio says he’s a “lay scholar” of the constitution, he is also a “lay scholar” of ADHD and psychiatry. Anyway, a lay scholar, from a foreign country, s/a himself, cannot really understand how the settling of the country and much more, has been for the people —unlike himself— who are from families that lived it, and did not come to the country for the Welfare state, as he did.

    How little this immigrant seems to care about the lived experience of Generational Americans, sounded like. Analogy would be a billion blacks being imported into China, while telling the Chinese they will not exist in 50 years, and putting the chinese on “Zero Population Growth Programs,” displacing them and talking to distressed chinese on radio, saying, “I’m black, but I’m sort of interested in this weird chinese perspective…”

    Hartmann seems to care about other groups—- just not Generational Americans. That Americans lived there (in a very different way from warfare statism as now) for 350 years before his grandparents decided to improve us all with their presence, and that it might mean something to the Americans—- all just seems incomprehensible to him.

  9. I listened on audio, not the vid. Now, on the vid, he seems more sincere—-

    But honestly….HOW MUCH should we care about what some guy who got off a boat from Norway, probably in 1950 or something, thinks about “our” country?

    Idk— in a way it amazes me that people walk into countries this way. I would not go to Norway and go on about “our founders” there. It seems…disrespectful or something. Wouldn’t you defer, to some degree, to people who were there centuries and centuries before you?

    They have no oral history. And that’s why they all become “legal” style experts. Americans argue from their family traditions and stories, instead.

  10. …And the caller is not from SC, either. People s/a these can never (due to their own position in the country) ever really consider what is lost when you lose regionalism. Which is why they are so useful.

  11. Southern Blacks have their own areas and culture and history, and it is doubtful that they would self deport to another country. I am in the camp that a more “libertarian” system of government would restore blacks to a better way of life and that grass roots segregation would come first and then ultimately they would have their cantons carved out or bought out during Partition.

    *** Dixiegirl, your comments are always insightful, thanks!

  12. The caller who came 2 (I think) after me is a friend of mine originally from CT (who comes from an Italian family). He’s a secessionist and very pro-South. He’s a good fellow. We’re both League of the South members.

  13. stonelifter says:
    December 7, 2012 at 1:50 am
    “it’ s also a violation of my property rights. just another gift from those vile people to the Southron White man”

    Anti-Whites love to say, non-Whites can take over White countries, because they are buying property, that is up for sale and “private property rights are sacred”.

    Then they say that privately owned businesses, must be forced to have affirmative action.

    They also say, White people are not allowed to require that their privately owned properties, can only be sold to White people, so White communities are not block busted.

    So which is it, anti-Whites? Are private property rights sacred, only when it suits your White Genocide agenda?

    The double standards are always anti-White.

  14. I think Mr. Cushman did very well.

    Yeah, sideburns and all. (Just a quibble, relax. Sideburns aren’t fatal.)

    For instance, what will you do with the blacks? The answer, for the moment, is nothing at all! Which is a very white-and-normal answer.

    “Nothing at all!” (note the exclamation mark) sounds a bit disingenuous. People will expect you to want to do “something” so it’s better to have some kind of program/idea in mind; something believable but nothing too scary or drastic. And you will definitely be challenged on that. “Are you sure that that’s all you’re suggesting? What about “Bob Jones” who said he wants to yada yada yada, hmm?”

    The real purpose is to establish the normality of white identity and the idea of working towards white racial interests. That’s something totally unknown in today’s world. So it doesn’t matter how mild or inoffensive your suggestion as to “what to do about blacks” is; hell, it could even be something very close to “nothing at all.” If people accept and internalize the normalcy of favoring their own racial interests, over time you can expect a sort of natural progression to firmer policies.

    Linder carries on about Golden Dawn, but the difference there is that Greek identity is completely normal and unquestioned (the way white/American identity once was decades ago). So it’s possible for GD to attack mild/conservative ideas and demand “the real thing.” How can you do that in America, though, where even the notion that the white race exists (let alone has any value or interests) has become controversial? We’ve seen the results of prematurely insisting on totally revolutionary racial policy before the groundwork has been laid: thinking people freak out; antis redouble their resolve; and everyday people just ignore it as unserious.

  15. Just listened to both podcasts.

    There’s point in flinching from just saying that you are tired of subsidizing
    Layabout blacks. If they can fend for themselves they are okay. But the gibsmedat
    Must end as it is bankrupting us all. I feel no kindred spirit with blacks. Just say it.

  16. I am like Dixiegirl in that I’d not heard of Thom Hartmann until Mr. W. began posting these video clips, a day or two ago. Well, I’m getting out of touch with America. Anyway, Palmetto Patriot and I would probably have different views of the events that culminated in the Civil War, but I would just like to say that I always enjoy listening to him. A month or so ago, I guess it was, I watched the video of the address he gave to a Southern nationalist group. It was just a simple setting–someone’s living room maybe. I can’t remember now whether the video was linked here, at Occidental Dissent, or at Palmetto Patriot’s own website, but I enjoyed it. I always enjoy listening to someone who speaks gently.

    Well, that’s all I wanted to say at this moment. In all the world, there is nothing as precious as one’s own people.

  17. As a teacher, I hate to say it, black students are demonstrably inferior. This is at college level. They are not even competitive with average dull witted white kids. I can’t imagine what the junior high and high school teachers have to go through with them.

    Almost every penny spent on edumacating them is a waste of resources that schools be directed at the top twenty to thirty percent of whites.

  18. Palmetto Patriot,
    You did a great job on staying focused and on message in spite of Hartmann’s constantly linking to his agenda. The caller after did well, too- when Y’All could get a word in edgewise.

    Dixiegirl @ 3:12,
    Great post. Spot on!

  19. But the gibsmedat Must end as it is bankrupting us all. I feel no kindred spirit with blacks. Just say it.

    The thing is welfare isn’t “bankrupting” anyone. It’s just not that large a chunk of the budget. I think the point that you’re sick and tired of paying to look after people who hate you and only cause you misery can stand on its own.

    As for kinship, I’d guess an absolute maximum of 1 in 10 whites feels any sort of kinship at all with blacks, and that’s probably an enormous overestimate. The number of people who’d be prepared to claim they feel kinship would, of course, be many times greater but, just like those surveys that find 60% or 70% of whites claiming to have at least one good black friend, it’s total BS.

    The problem is the very concept of kinship has hit on hard times. Liberal or post-modern society places very little value on it and expends a great deal of effort disabusing people of their mistaken notions that it has any value. So merely pointing out that mass multiracialism is a fuck up of epic proportions because it severely diminishes fellow feeling has very little effect on people whose minds have been marinading in po-mo reality-denial since birth.

    I am like Dixiegirl in that I’d not heard of Thom Hartmann until Mr. W. began posting these video clips, a day or two ago.

    I think Peter Brimelow was on his show once. If I’m not misremembering, Brimelow said something about America being majority white and Hartmann flipped his lid and exclaimed that it “won’t be soon!”

  20. Palmetto,

    I have a critique of what you said. Bear with me. When you run into hosts like this ask them why they feel such loyalty to a system that mocks them. The system is directed against nice reasonable chaps like him too.
    He was actually quite receptive to the things you said.

    1. Southerners are a distinct people who came from places like Barbados originating in the British Isles and belong to a culture that spans the Tidewater to Trinidad.

    2. Your ancestors moved here to make money and then leave money to you. Not for some abstract notion of justice.

    3. Remind the snotty host that his things are slowly but surely being taken away. Everything will be taken away. The system is directed against Hartmann but he just doesn’t realize it yet. At root civil rights was simply a way to dispossess European descended Americans.

    4. The class based discussions Hartmann wants to engage in are only viable in an ethnically homogenous society, even with a secession there will be lots of blacks. Politics in a multiracial society are just DIFFERENT than those found in Scandinavian social democracies. Once you add a significant number of blacks EVERYTHING is determined by race.

  21. Palmetto,

    You are a nice guy, it’s a southern thing I suppose. Ask Hartmann sly question.

    “do you think that by carrying the water for a hostile minority that they will spare you and yours? When the shtf you really think what you say on here will protect you from the sullen resentment of these orcs?”

  22. “The thing is welfare isn’t “bankrupting” anyone. It’s just not that large a chunk of the budget. I think the point that you’re sick and tired of paying to look after people who hate you and only cause you misery can stand on its own. ”

    You’re absolutely right on both accounts. The majority of welfare payment, via social security and medicare, go to people who are relatively well off-baby boomer and their parents. The proceeding generations will never possess comparative wealth, yet they are expected to pick up the tab.

  23. He did really well, too bad conservatard radio can’t be half as civil to traditional conservatives as this progressive was.

  24. Silver,

    In a normal country I can safely get on a bus. I don’t have to commute hours and hours because I don’t have to worry about MLK Blvd. I don’t have to worry about property. Skye’s as acutely, I dont have to see the core of my metropole ravaged by orcs with trillions of dollars if danage. This ravaging has obviously helped to bankrupt everything. And I feel nothing for them. The fewer the better.

  25. If Mr. Hartmann family is from Norwah, he has forgotten that Norway secceeded from Sweden. No war was necessary.

  26. Nice job PP. Good answer about private property rights and the freedom of association. I always answer the same way when asked the same question.

  27. I hope Matt, as he gets around South Carolina, keeps a database of his contacts, and keeps that database up to date. A good database/contact information is worth its weight in gold.

    This Secession thing will peter out, but, the contacts you make while Secession is a hot topic will be helpful in the future.

    This internet stuff, is an excellent sounding board, if you have a good ear for it. But, real world contact, has long term benefits.

  28. @ “…He’s a secessionist and very pro-South. He’s a good fellow. We’re both League of the South members….”

    The South needs good allies. Was thinking about this interview with you some more.

    A real crux of the matter that Thom did not seem to ‘get,’ and SOME (though certainly not all) people who think of themselves as “southern allies” (not your friend) don’t ‘get,’ is the whole reasoning behind ethno-nationalism to begin with.

    Whether one is “right” or “left” now, the identity of what a human IS, (and therefore their RELATIONSHIP to the state) is still stuck in current u.s., in Economism, at least for the white population. They are seen by “elites” as ‘labor units,’ with ‘social security numbers,’ pushed toward ‘paperless society,’ so they can, essentially, be tracked and paid in script, just as in the old coal company stores, where workers have running accounts/ tallies that can never be “worked off.”

    Ethno-nationalism (of all sorts), is different. It says you will Gain great riches (externally and internally) by Living As Who you really are, and not losing touch with your history, language, arts, trajectory to the country and so on. It claims that such things ADD MEANING to your life, far beyond just being a labor unit, (living to work off your debt…and a debt that you, yourself did not incur, nor that you had any say in incurring… in other words, slavery)

    Under “Economism,” (like now), you CANNOT HAVE anything truly “constitutional,” as “lay scholar on the constitution” (according to wiki) Thom Hartmann tries to maintain that you can. And this is what he does not understand. The FOUNDERS were not envisioning the country from the point of view of people steeped in (whose thinking was informed by) Economism, (the way Hartmann’s is).

    The WHOLE ‘left” versus “right” debate (as it exists on t.v. or for Thom Hartmann) would have been utterly ALIEN to the Founders. They were looking at the deal from the point of view of “POSTERITY,” which they openly state. A whole other gestalt. Weltanschaang etc. Worldview.

    They were looking at things from HOW TO LIVE, how to have the fullest lives as human beings, NOT how to “run economies” (“it’s the economy, el stupidos!!!” as even presidential candidates say now, degrading their ignunt public in the process).

    The Founders were interested in Working to LIVE not “living to work,” which is what the u.s. has now.

    The idea that their families, histories, culture, stories, etc, would not even be a part of “representational governance” (as now) would have been un-thinkable to those men—- just as unthinkable as this situation in america now, where the idea “representational government” is RE-CONSTRUED –re-interpreted and mostly by foreigners, under the rubric of Economism—- So, “representation” can only mean “in the work place” (because we are under Economism) and “rights” are construed as GETTING (material economic things) … more pay, shorter hours, less taxes (you keep some money) etc.

    Quality of life—- of memory, history, arts, expressions of “people-hood” is not even in the public debate. For the Founders, the whole discourse would have been INTER-PLANETARY. (So Thom Hartmann seems funny, not even getting this)

    This whole interpretation of the word “Representation” would have been alien to the founders, obviously. Representation— involved human beings being represented, not labor units, lol.

    Somehow this came together with Michaels extremely interesting latest Golden Circle podcast, on planter society, where it’s further explained that the South was working to LIVE, not living to WORK.

    The very essence of LIFE was something different to them. As to the Founders, also. They were seeking a way to LIVE MORE FULLY, not re-iterate the feudalist lives of sweat shop workers in Europe, with their relation to governance of Laborer.

  29. Wonder if Rush Limbaugh would be receptive to a callin from serious Southern Nationalist? I doubt it but would love to listen to the great radio blowhard’s response!

  30. I am currently reading a book by Geoffrey Hosking called “The Awakening of the Soviet Union.” There is a chapter in it called “The Flawed Melting Pot.” EVERY secessionist EVERYWHERE in the world should read it. Hosking–a Russian History professor–has his guard down and speaks very, very frankly about what a damaging thing diversity is when it comes to the cohesion of nations of assented confederation. His diagnosis is, though he doesn’t seem aware of it, pretty general in nature. It could apply anywhere.

    ALSO, elsewhere in the book, the symptoms of systemic and economic rot that were, as of its writing, LEADING to the dissolution of the USSR sound familiar. (It was written in 1990).

    But, most interestingly, he describes the psychological/ethnic/national confusions of the Russians (who ethnically dominated the USSR in number) much as Mr. Wallace has described the confusion of Yankees when it comes to Nation-Conscious Southrons or Texans.

    To wit (p. 94):

    “…The Russians have invested much of their ethnic awareness in the political structure they have created and sustained. They have, as a result, scant understanding for nations who have no sovereign state of their own, and they expect Ukrainians and Belorussians to be content with the role of ‘auxiliary Russians’ in the vastness of the empire, in the same way that Englishmen would regard Scots as fellow-countrymen in the service of the crown.”

  31. Ask someone like him straight out if diversity is so good, why are only white countries forced to practice it? Shouldn’t there be white diversity, white set asides, and white affirmative action in Africa, India and China too? Ask him why liberals are never asked and forced to answer this question. He doesn’t know (being brainwashed the question never crossed his mind) but the people behind the scam know that it would show the whole exercise for the fool’s errand that it is.

    Someone like him also will probably involuntarily chuckle (ignorantly) at such a concept – because he assumes we white people are the apex predators who are invulnerable. But we are not invulnerable. The minorities have already shown that when let into white countries they will act and vote as a block. If they achieve absolute hegemony what is to stop them from dispossessing white people?

    Back him into the corner and make him admit that he is assuming something to the effect that, e.g, “no, they won’t dispossess because both we white (liberals) and they brown (liberals) are trustworthy”. When he says something equivalent to that he has shown himself to be a fool.

    Self-determination means that as a people you are NOT dependent upon the good graces of another people. Self-determination means your people make their own decisions for themselves without interference from aliens. If you lose that right of self-determination you become a SUBJECT people.

    The white south africans are a subject people and too proud and stupid to admit it and to do anything about it. The only thing that the abolition of apartheid has resulted in is the dispossession and slow genocide of white south africans. The proof that white south africans are a subject people is the differential rates of murder between white and black south africans.

    Further, the current situation in this country was exacerbated by mismanagement of immigration. Recent immigrants have refused to assimilate and, as shown by their voting patterns, act as an alien nation within a nation. If the government had properly managed immigration and did not let alien nations within a nation develop than we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.

  32. One thing to remember when allowing yourself to be interviewed by people such as this: He represents the ENEMY of which we are at war with.

    If you don’t think we are at war, then you already have 3 strikes against you and you are not a worthy spokesman for our cause.

    No matter what they say, WE ARE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY. Our “idea” is the idea whose time has come.

    STOP BEING SO TRUSTING.

  33. Great job Hunter! Seemed as though he tried to slyly bait you several times but you never fell for it. Mr. Hartmann did bring up a great point and he is correct; it is all about race. This is where it begins and ends. True freedom and liberty is exactly as you descibed HW…without being forced at gunpoint by the Feds.

  34. One important point to be made was how well you stood your ground when he asked “what will be done with the blacks”? Exactly what you said: nothing! Blacks and whites would be free to do as they wanted; as long as they did not infringe on the other, (just as it was before!)

    Contrary to Hollywood/Jewish version of history, blacks and whites did just fine getting along in the South before the Feds came in with AA, integration at bayonet-point, misengenation, etc…

    Hannity or any of the other kosher Cowardservatives would have been crapping their pants and doing back flips to show how much black ass they could kiss.

  35. Instead of call yourself a Southern Nationalist, why not call yourself a Southern Separatist? Then, when they ask you why you want to separate, tell them that you do not want to be caught underneath when the union collapses. Keep them on the defensive. At this point, it is better to emphasize what you want to escape from than what you want to escape to. Fear is stronger than love, hate, or greed.

  36. Steve, I prefer the term ‘Southern nationalist’ because ‘nationalist’ is not well known in to the average person in the US. ‘Separatist’ tends to be lumped together with ‘White’ – ‘White separatist’ has been used a good bit in the media. It takes us down a rhetorical road that isn’t good for advancing our cause. ‘Southern nationalist’ is a term most people have never heard. I also think it’s more positive.

  37. @Palmetto

    That Hartmann guy did what I expected- insinuate ‘racism’ the whole time. You should’ve talked over him and taken over the show (like a brash northerner, ha!).

    One question for you Palmetto (or Hunter Wallace)…will you guys be accepting immigrants, from, ahem…the north perhaps?

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