Southern Baptists Go Swimming in Lake Geneva

Southern Baptists are converting to Calvinism

Dixie

It seems that Southern Baptists are rejecting the watered down, degenerate, and liberal milquetoast version of Christianity that they have been force fed in recent decades. Just wait until the American economy collapses.

I’m reposting the link here because I know it will be of interest to some of our readers:

“Calvinism, often also referred to as Reformed theology, is gaining influence in the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC). A 2007 poll reported that 10% of its pastors now call themselves Reformed, and that 29% of recent seminary graduates do so—an intriguing portent for the future. The development was not much noticed for a while, but is now generating a lively controversy. It should be noted that, from its inception in the sixteenth century, Calvinism has come in two versions—one closely following the teachings of the founding generation, the other having significantly softened the original harshness. Both versions came to America from the various Calvinist homelands in Europe—notably Switzerland, Germany, Scotland and (very importantly) the Netherlands. The softer version has been more prevalent. What is particularly interesting is that the harsher version seems to appeal to many Baptists turned neo-Calvinists.

The original, full-bodied version of Calvinism has been symbolized by the acronym TULIP (it is probably not accidental that this is also the national flower of the Netherlands). The first letters of the acronym stand for: Total depravity: human nature has no good features whatever; Unmerited election: we are saved by God’s grace, which we don’t deserve; Limited atonement: not all men are saved, only the elect; Irresistible grace: we cannot resist God’s action in saving us; Perseverance of the saints: once God has placed us among the elect, we can never lose that status. Put together, these propositions add up to the so-called doctrine of double predestination—the assertion that God, from all eternity, has decided who will be saved and who will be damned. Arguably, this is the most repulsive doctrine in the history of the Christian religion. . .

Both the harsh and the soft versions of Calvinism have found defenders among Southern Baptists. Roger Olson (who teaches theology at Baylor University) wrote, “I am against any Calvinism—and any theology—that impugns the goodness of God in favor of absolute sovereignty, leading to the conclusion that evil, sin and every horror of history are planned and rendered certain by God.” Such a God would be “a moral monster”. Olson calls this “radical Calvinism”, expressing admiration for less extreme versions. The full TULIP version was defended by Michael Horton (Westminster Seminary), though he doesn’t like the terminology of the acronym: “It is impossible to read the Bible without recognizing God’s freedom to choose some and not others.” One of the most influential SBC theologians, Albert Mohler (Southern Theological Seminary), has supported Horton’s position, calling the New Calvinism “a healthy return to Southern Baptists’ historic roots”.

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25 Comments

  1. This is the first I have heard about this. I suppose because even though I was raised a Southern Baptist, I never attend church any longer and no longer believe in Jesus.

    I know that the Southern Baptist Convention was in turmoil because of the leadership of liberals who forced change that most people didn’t like. I guess they forced people into Calvinism and that was certainly not what they intended. Their plans backfired just as the plans of the jew world order are backfiring in Europe as people are rejecting the policies of the EU and the euro is about to collapse.

    There is unrest in every segment of the White population in America and I hope the outcome of all of this is a world wide war declared by Whites upon the Ashkanazi filth. I hope there is no place on Earth where these parasitic cancers are safe. They are a plague on the planet.

  2. Heads up.

    High court could look at state immigration laws

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/judicial/story/2011-12-12/supreme-court-arizona-immigration/51826852/1

    WASHINGTON (AP) – The Obama administration is waging a furious legal fight against a patchwork of state laws targeting illegal immigrants, and on Monday the Supreme Court has its first chance to jump into the fray.

    Why Americans no longer trust Washington

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/editorials/2011/12/why-americans-no-longer-trust-washington/1990061

    Survey after survey in recent months has shown an alarming decline in public confidence in the nation’s chief federal institutions, as well as a deepening pessimism about America’s future. Congressional approval is at an all-time low of 13 percent, according to the Gallup Poll, and three-quarters of the public wouldn’t re-elect most members of Congress. There is cold comfort in the numbers for President Obama. Barely 41 percent of the public approves of his job performance, according to Gallup. Most worrisome is the fact that a majority of Americans, 52 percent, told pollster Scott Rasmussen this week that they believe the country’s best days are behind it, the first time a majority has so responded.

    Depression and Democracy

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/12/opinion/krugman-depression-and-democracy.html?_r=2&ref=opinion

    It’s time to start calling the current situation what it is: a depression. True, it’s not a full replay of the Great Depression, but that’s cold comfort. Unemployment in both America and Europe remains disastrously high. Leaders and institutions are increasingly discredited. And democratic values are under siege.

    On that last point, I am not being alarmist. On the political as on the economic front it’s important not to fall into the “not as bad as” trap. High unemployment isn’t O.K. just because it hasn’t hit 1933 levels; ominous political trends shouldn’t be dismissed just because there’s no Hitler in sight.

    Let’s talk, in particular, about what’s happening in Europe — not because all is well with America, but because the gravity of European political developments isn’t widely understood.

    First of all, the crisis of the euro is killing the European dream. The shared currency, which was supposed to bind nations together, has instead created an atmosphere of bitter acrimony.

    Specifically, demands for ever-harsher austerity, with no offsetting effort to foster growth, have done double damage. They have failed as economic policy, worsening unemployment without restoring confidence; a Europe-wide recession now looks likely even if the immediate threat of financial crisis is contained. And they have created immense anger, with many Europeans furious at what is perceived, fairly or unfairly (or actually a bit of both), as a heavy-handed exercise of German power.

    Nobody familiar with Europe’s history can look at this resurgence of hostility without feeling a shiver. Yet there may be worse things happening.

    Right-wing populists are on the rise from Austria, where the Freedom Party (whose leader used to have neo-Nazi connections) runs neck-and-neck in the polls with established parties, to Finland, where the anti-immigrant True Finns party had a strong electoral showing last April. And these are rich countries whose economies have held up fairly well. Matters look even more ominous in the poorer nations of Central and Eastern Europe.

    Last month the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development documented a sharp drop in public support for democracy in the “new E.U.” countries, the nations that joined the European Union after the fall of the Berlin Wall. Not surprisingly, the loss of faith in democracy has been greatest in the countries that suffered the deepest economic slumps.

    And in at least one nation, Hungary, democratic institutions are being undermined as we speak.

    One of Hungary’s major parties, Jobbik, is a nightmare out of the 1930s: it’s anti-Roma (Gypsy), it’s anti-Semitic, and it even had a paramilitary arm. But the immediate threat comes from Fidesz, the governing center-right party.

  3. “I know that the Southern Baptist Convention was in turmoil because of the leadership of liberals who forced change that most people didn’t like. I guess they forced people into Calvinism and that was certainly not what they intended.”

    I clearly see not ONE of the lessons of Sunday School, pastor’s sermons, or the bible ‘stuck’ with you, Annis. How in the world one can equate Calvinism with Liberalism, is beyond me….

    Hunter- while this might give some Baptist the fallacious belief that they could become the next Charles Haddon Spurgeon, baptist theology is, at root, ‘anti-incarnational.’ I say this, because the Baptists, of all the Protestant sects, denies the covenant status of children. As a Kinist, and an orthodox Christian (and an Orthodox one, as well) the PRIMARY factor in any successful war against the Deicides, the Multicultis, and the various other detrius of Satan, is to KNOW WHO YOUR PEOPLE ARE. Without a ‘covenantal/sacramental’ sign that is the supercession of circumcision, (which even the Baptists should see, from the words of St. Paul) Whites have no ‘cultic ritual’ (in the good sense of that word) with which to say, ‘See, we’re better than you Jews’ even in our care for our own children.’

    Now, such a statement sounds ( at face value) rather childish, but it does boil down to that, when establishing a reality to give to people- look at how Hitler did it, with his ‘Germanness’ to fight the Jews- it worked, except for where it counted most- in the religious sphere. Talmudism has cohesiveness, because it TOOK EVERY RITUAL YHWH God gave the Israelites of Abrham’s loins, and ‘set them apart,’ and have made foolish Baptists (and others) believe that they are the ‘Chosen People.’ But it is NOT THEM, but WE, who truly are the holders of THAT franchise. And the first step in reclaiming our own heritage, is to make our children ‘b’nai brith’ – sons of the COVENANT.

    No, the Presbyterians have it all over the Baptists on this one. That is why TRUE Calvinism (which still is not a full-orbed faith, for the record….) is avidly baby-baptism, and why Calvin was (for lack of a better term) a ‘catholic presbyterian.’
    And NOT like the Muntzer Anabaptists, whom even Luther thought total anarchists.

  4. “And in at least one nation, Hungary, democratic institutions are being undermined as we speak. One of Hungary’s major parties, Jobbik, is a nightmare out of the 1930s: it’s anti-Roma (Gypsy), it’s anti-Semitic, and it even had a paramilitary arm. ”

    Hunter- use Parentheses! At first, I thought you had drunk the Manischwitz, and had lost your sanity… until I realized you were QUOTING Jew Krugman. Oh, NBD (no big deal). When a Jew says, “Democratic institutions are being undermined as we speak,” it ACTUALLY means, “White self-awareness is on the rise, and soon, the ‘goyim’ might actually kick us out of power- OY!”

    As someone has so presciently written, ‘If a Rabbi is present, a crime has ALREADY been committed.”

    Hungary- the first ‘free, White, Christian nation’ of the 21st Century? One can only hope.

    SERVUS!

  5. @ Hunter Let’s remember that the “Methodists” started out as the “Methodist Calvinists”.

    When you consider that everyone, or almost everyone in the United States has heard of Jesus Christ, yet not all, not even a majority actually believe, or have faith in Jesus Christ, that surely gives some credibility to what Calvin was saying.

  6. This is GRTEAT!!!!! I am a Christia. This is why I refuse to attend a degenrate church. My husband keeps bugging me to go, for “fellowship” – but am a Celt – and I am SICK AND TIRED of going to “Church” and hearng sub-moronic, Satanic BS about The Knaaazeees (I’m not kididng about that), and “Jews are so cool ,and …uh…better…and we MUST do everything we can for THEM”. I’ve told him that the NEXT time I am dragged into a subverted Whited sepulchre, and I hear a word that goes off John- I’m going to raise HELL then and there. I will denounce the paid Jew whore RIGHT THEN AND THERE. I’m not “..waiting til the end, out of respect” Why should I respect ANY-ONE that defiles a sacred altar?

    Re: the Calivinist – the White quest for excellence is re-asserting itself. Yup. That what it is. No more degraded standards. Look out. The Christ is on the march. YAY!

  7. Hunter,
    this is indeed interesting. I have spent some time keeping up with the plight of Afrikaners in South Africa where black african rule is destroying both what the Dutch Reformed and French Huguenots built and now overtly and aggressively targeting the remnants of those brave Europeans themselves for extinction.

    Interestingly, among the ethnically aware Afrikaners Calvinism remains the religion of choice. Just why it remains the religion of choice for a persecuted people is a fascinating question, but there is no doubt that it has been part and parcel of the survival of the Afrikaners against the brutal onslaught of first the wandering tribes, then the British and now the blacks that the British so ignorantly ushered into power there.

    The experience of Europeans in Zimbabwe and South Africa offers some valuable data for understanding how black africans behave when ushered into power on a larger scale than we have seen in the US. Our situation is not completely analogous to theirs, but still useful to reflect upon.

    And if I might share a blog which tracks the plight of SA Europeans:
    http://censorbugbear-reports.blogspot.com/

    Thanks,
    Daniel

    Thoughts?

  8. “I know that the Southern Baptist Convention was in turmoil because of the leadership of liberals who forced change that most people didn’t like. I guess they forced people into Calvinism and that was certainly not what they intended.”

    Fr. John sez:
    I clearly see not ONE of the lessons of Sunday School, pastor’s sermons, or the bible ‘stuck’ with you, Annis. How in the world one can equate Calvinism with Liberalism, is beyond me….

    Fr. John, Annis is saying the Calvinism is a BACKLASH against the liberalism.

  9. Spooky- read it again. I think it is the other way around.

    Hunter- one more thing. Even the Anglicans (who were considered ‘worldly’ by the Puritanical…. umm, Puritans) in the USA were MUCH more affected by Geo. Whitefield’s preaching, than by Wesley’s ‘semi-Pelagianism.’ The Biography of Whitefield by Dallimore is a testament that the ENTIRE USA, when it was a) most Christian, b)most European, and c) most White, was d) over 90% Calvinist, no matter which jurisdiction one held to! (The only hold out in that demographic was Quaker PA- then think of men like Ned Rorem, and Michner, and you can see what ‘Quaker faith’ does…or does not, and RC-philic Maryland, which still had a large contingent of Protestants!)

    When God is most glorified (and Calvinism certainly does not glorify man’s fallen nature, that’s for sure) God’s Adam is also most elevated, as the exemplar of that Election, His ‘incaranted representative to the nations.’ Amen, and amen. [Rom 3:4]

  10. Bullshit. Back then (as now) many Episcopalians were sub rosa deists and Unitarianism was well on the march through New England.

  11. The real Calvinism is one of the most anti-liberal doctrines ever created by European man. It shouldn’t be confused with the Baptists or Methodists or the Episcopalians….”

    The “New South” is fraught with endless revisionism! If anything brought “Arminianism” to the fore, it was the Imposition of Vatican II on Americans (the majority of whom are not, nor were, roman church adherents.) Worse, it is now exposed as having overseen The Whole of the 60s, having conveniently assembled just in time to oversee the killing of so many American politicians. Then the papacy set up itself as a country with an embassy in the 80s, along with all the other foreign embassies, (which would put any roman church adherent in an awkward position in regards to where their loyalties lie, in a country that had previously boasted “freedom of religion” for Protestants, and really, had done quite well by it.)

    The “New South” is largely the transplantation of the New York Machine into the South. Now— it is vogue once again to BLAME PURITANS (LOL) for the whole mess. “Wasps” are exactly 3% of nyc— and do not EXIST in the power cities, and HAVE NOT existed in these cities for years. Yes, yes. Their horrifying IDEAS have colored everything. But isn’t that a bit like how blacks go on and on about slavery? How long after the last Protestant left the Northeast CAN their evilness take to dissipate?? LOL

    Anyway—- in my catholic school, Arminianism was drummed home as a Great Heresy. So, re-positioning SOUTHERN BAPTISTS as this great heresy… would help who?? Two towns I lived in went from Southern Baptist to Catholic in a matter of about 5 years, literally populations doubled overnight. Such is the “new south.” They are just greasy stupid Deliverance-style HERETICS, so it doesn’t matter, you see.

    It is just so transparent.

    But for WHAT? Cheap Chinese goods and strip malls in the south, overcrowding, family breakups, joblessness, dissolution of genuinely productive previous economies, alienation of “diverse” living, etc, etc, etc.

    Anyway—- The Episcopalians were taken out. Forget the VAT II and having to show up and answer questions about your “ecumenical” soul. The feminist activists showed up, gays even interrupted services, etc.

    They are GONE. So the old cavaliers are wiped out (the Episcopals), and now they need to start attacking the Southern Baptsists (the other kind of Protestant).

    One of the ways of this attack is to Re-position SBC as an old school “HERESY,” and everyone knows heretics are to be killed. (Catechism class, where we listed the heresies and talked about their bloody fates, lol).

    Now, Arminianism is not a good idea, to be sure, but this is overblown.

    Where Calvin is coming back in, it’s much more the Depravity end of it. (The levels of real corruption in the country are more probably the reason for that).

    Also— the past 50 years have not been static. The “New South” has taught whole new generations of Southern people what the “Old North” (and not the other Protestants) have to say about Southerners.

    Further— LMOA, now that there are SO MANY Northeast non-prods in the South, (millions in the past few years, lol)— they, themselves, are scrambling to deal with the fact that they ARE southern now.

    This means THEIR CHILDREN will think of themselves as that, and also be victims of the general Hollywood narratives and so on. They are —very humorously— trying to grapple with that— some take the position that The South was really representative of European Catholicism (this is a very common thing for them to do— “we are all the same really.”)

    Others, go on and on, saying the war is so old that North-South is “meaningless.” (untrue, way too long a history on record to just dispense with it that way.)

    The SBC-Calvin-Arminianism thing is just one of MANY Northern, mostly Catholic, revisionsims about now-we’re-the-people-in-the-South so it’s Holy, like the movie, The Conspiritor, (or whatever). Lots of this going around.

    The REAL SOUTHERNERS ARE heretics. That’s the (revisionism) deal.

  12. Yes— keep looking, and you will see that the whole Arminianism Argument is just part of the renewed assault now that the Episcopal Caveliers are wiped out by women and gays. The SBC is second to the roman adherents (and unlike them, still ethnically identified, i.e. SOUTHERN rather than “universal” although most of them seem to be Mexican around here, lol).

    So, SBC is next on the chopping block. (Re-positioned as “heresy.”)

  13. Christianity is the original WMD among Semitic Mind Weapons. It’s unlikely our people will rise up and achieve our destiny while simultaneously worshipping the God of the Jews. The centuries of sectarian conflict, the endless disagreements of the fine points of completely unknowable theological theories, the splintering into thousands of denominations, ending in the individual-preacher-and-chruch structure of many American Protestant sects, all of it is a massive failure mode.

    Just look at the idea of unity of all men in Christ, look at the role that Christianity has had in the establishment of BRA. The religion left us unable to act in our own best interest — and it’s the same Christian sects that are now engaged in “saving” Somali’s by importing them into Minnesota, and Hmongs into California, and Cambodians into Oregon, and El Salvadorians into Virginia.

  14. Jackson- first off, as long as you think of Christianity as a “jewish” religion, you already have become a culture ‘jew’, and are of no use to our people. My blog has consistently shown that what PASSES for ‘Jewishness’ is nothing but a GIANT FRAUD. Talmudism is not biblical Hebraicism. Judaism is not Bible Based, but Babylonian based. Those who ‘say they are Jews, and are not’ are merely a Turko-finnic tribe known as the khazars, who converted to the ‘FEAR’ (false evidence appearing real) Religion of ‘Judaism’ in AD 740, have NO connection with the Bible’s Chosen People, Faith or Covenant.

    But because minds are unwilling to THINK- the average yahoo (even on this site) still thinks of them as ‘Jews;’ thinks of their religion as that which ONLY Adamic Mankind (i.e., White Europeans) is entitled to; and then draws the greatest fallacy of all; that to adopt what appears to be a “jewish” religion means to play into their hands.

    On the contrary.

    Christianity: patristic, patriarchal, moral, hierarchical, and militant – is the sole/ ONLY means to defeat the Devil and his literal, self-worshipping seed/offspring. [Gen. 3:15, Rom. 9:6, etc.]

    And the Christianity that will succeed, is to RETURN to that Christianity BEFORE the Schism, and not any of the Papally-spawned cults and sects that include rome as well.
    In short, Orthodoxy.

    But NOT an Orthodoxy that is tied only to the Slavic soul- but an Orthodoxy that will utilize the logic of the Anglo-Saxon mind, and the rigor of the Germanic Mind, and the nuance of the Gallic mind. As Andrew Fraser noted in his book, ‘The WASP Question’ only this will serve to both defeat the Deicide, and unite Europe as she was meant to be- Christendom.

    Once we realize that all of the modernist vagaries are heresies, we have to keep going back until we realize that the faith BEFORE 1066 is the ONLY thing we have going.
    And that, as they say, is the ‘…. rest of the story.’

    I refuse to either bow to the Deicide’s lies, or the minions of Satania, of which I frankly consider you to be one, with an attitude like that. I already know Judel is. And on a board like this- boy, the tares are rife with the wheat. Anathema sit, to the whole lot of you!

  15. The most Calvinistic people ever in America were the Puritans of Massachusetts Bay Colony. Look what they turned into–Yankees.

  16. I’m all for anything to put some spine back into Western religion.

    Fr. John you well know where God’s tabernacle is to be found and where the covenant is kept. You serve such a tabernacle. The Orthodox among all Christians have best preserved our liturgical patrimony, degraded or discarded by the West to our enduring shame.

    The twentieth century is largely the story of an untold massive beyond belief Christian martyrdom on the part of the Orthodox in Eastern Europe. Much of the hype surrounding the holocaust is designed to conceal this great truth. When this truth becomes manifest among all, the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart will truly begin. Where you find the blood of martyrs, you find the Christ.

    The Yankee government, which deliberately targeted the two great Japanese centers of Christianity for its atomic bomb strikes, is no friend of true Christianity. Christianity in Iraq and Afghanistan has almost ceased to exist under the aegis of American occupation the past decade. The federal beast serves Mammon.

    Deo Vindice

  17. @Apuleius

    Huh? I thought Japanese Christians were Roman Catholic? Didn’t they call themselves “kirishitan” and had been converted by the Portugese in Shimabara?

  18. faith is pretty easy and straight forward. I’ve never been confused by reading the Bible or needed some slick to explain God’s word. religion is theology and one more thing that gets between Man and his Creator

  19. I like Buddy Tuckers website: Truth From God.com click Other Articles. The enemy is going crazy about his website. The Super Cracker, Red Neck Religion and the NEWS FLAG! The Souhern Baptist are sickos like the News Mormon LDS. They promote the NWO AGENDA and death to White Race. Most Preachers (Ministers) have the Shriner ring on their hand. They give sermons how bad White Racism is and we must love the Precious supreme masters, The Jews. Some of these jerks let their kids date inter-racial and then show them off in front of their congregations! I witnessed this back in the early 80s in the Coral Gables Baptist Church in Miami. All the men would have contest to see who had best suit on and the best profession. The idea that must have all with Jones mentality was a disease. A very very few Indepèndent Baptist reject the NWO Agenda. I guy named RAMSEY years ago had his own independent Baptist Church and was racist. By the way—I hope all those Baptist swine drown in Lake Geneva!

  20. I don’t know about the religious angle, but from experience, some people are just bad. They are sociopaths who went down that path long ago, but seemed destined for it. Many have clear familial roots of this behavior.

    A similar observation from Houellebecq:

    “I tend to think that good and evil exist and that the quantity in each of us is unchangeable. The moral character of people is set, fixed until death. This resembles the Calvinist notion of predestination, in which people are born saved or damned, without being able to do a thing about it. And I am a curmudgeonly pain in the ass because I refuse to diverge from the scientific method or to believe there is a truth beyond science.”

    http://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/6040/the-art-of-fiction-no-206-michel-houellebecq

  21. Hunter: You are right about most Yanks, not all really being dumb. Some will say oh, The Kenndys were so great and all the crap. I hope you do an expose of the Kennedys and how they put the dagger in Americas Heart! John and his Civil Right Crap`and Ed with hios 1965 Immiugration law which has let 165 million non whites in America and they breed like rabbits and Ted with all his sick damn garbage! And The Father–The Mafia scot whiskey boot legger. The Northeast Establisment Traitors are the worst kind! Then in the South with creeps like Johnson, Carter and Clinton, pure white trash! The problem with these southern traitors is that they had to much black nanny tit when they were kids. Keep on Getin Them Hunter!

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