I honestly don’t understand why it offends non-Nordish people when Nordish people want to remain themselves.
Because this is a strawman at best and disingenuously obtuse, at worst. It has nothing to do with you wanting to be yourselves, which *I* want that as well for you and me. It has to do with disrespect, barely hidden disdain, and “when we win” we may/will find ourselves in an environment that marks us as second class citizens replete with discrimination and attacks. Get it now?
n/a,
With respect to marker number size, how does that study compare to others that separate out say Jews vs Europeans, or various Slavic peoples, or even between Nordic peoples themselves? In other words, is 500K average, big, small?
“Draw concentric circles around Greece, and you’ll include much of the Middle East before you ever get to France.”
For one thing, this chart is inconsistent with The History and Geography of Human Genes. The distance of Italy appears to be different, for just one thing. Why should I give more credibility to it than Cavalli-Sforza’s work?
Also, whoever said that Greece is the center of the Meds?
You just pulled that out of your hat.
And one thing I see in the chart is that the French are closer to Iberians than they are to Swedes.
Therefore to say that the French and Swedes are the same group, but not the French and Iberians makes no genetic sense.
“Reginald’s assertion that Northern European preservationists want to “grab French women for themselves” is bizarre and tends to support blake’s assessment of his motives. ”
You are taking what I said out of context. This is the sort of bad faith which is at the heart of what you represent.
“It would of course make no sense from the standpoint of racial preservation to include French women but exclude French men in a proposed state.”
Such an idiotic thought never occurred to me.
The main point is that females are the limiting factor on reproduction.
To define the French as Nordish would have as its racial purpose the incorporation of French Women into the Nordish race.
And given that even you admit that the French have much more Med ancestry than the typical White American, Nordish Preservations would ACTUALLY have a strong interest in sexually disempowering French blooded Men in their ethnostate, so they can get all of the numerical benefit from breeding with French Women with only half the De-Nordification that would be attendant if the French Men were allowed to reproduce.
What you really want to preserve are Nordics and closely related groups. Therefore don’t patronize me with this stupid lie that you would feel some soft-hearted desire to preserve the French race.
“None of the Nordish preservationists here is advocating the genocide of non-Nordish Whites and the destruction of intra-White genetic diversity.”
You’re advocating policies that would lead to it, unless the Ethnic Core of Nordics was reproductively isolated.
“Nordish preservation is the preservation of intra-White genetic diversity.”
Then why do you later in this comment support the replacement of Non-Nordic Genes by Nordic Genes.
The very fact that Nordic genes are near the center of the European population is what makes replacing Non-Nordic genes with Nordic Genes such a genetic diversity killer.
You want to wipe out a significant degree of the genetic diversity we still have.
“It can be clarified and refined.”
You have shown yourself in this statement to be a moderate, in comparison to the typical Nordicist who can’t wait to turn every single subrace that’s a reasonable candidate for having their genes replaced with Nordic Genes into the subjects of an State explicitly run by and for Nordics.
“At any rate, within a Nordish ethnostate, I don’t see why the replacement would be a problem.”
Would you like it if steps were taken to replace the degree of Nordic blood found in Italy?
If all Italians of more than X Percent Northern European Blood were replaced by more purely Italic Italians, if all these sorts of more Nordic Italians had their bloodlines and families destroyed, would you take the attitude that because the genocide of Northern European blood from Italy occurred in what must have been an Italic Ethnostate, that somehow made it alright?
Support the coming Italic Ethnostate, Italian Blondes, and we’ll be sure to drive your family into extinction!!
What’s that? You don’t want to support it?
What are you, against Racial Preservation?!
I know what this is about, it’s about your sex lives isn’t it?
That’s the only possible explanation for why you wouldn’t support this glorious plan to cleanse Italy of foreign and disgustingly alien elements.
Yeah, I’ll be sure to keep that plan handy, just in case there’s ever a call to go to Italy and try to implement it.
What this discussion has convinced me of is that I would prefer pure bloody anarchy to an Ethnostate run by Nordicists.
At least in such an environment everyone would have a fighting chance, and perhaps the actual cream of the White Race would rise to the top.
For months, Reginald has been banging the drum for polygamy and telling men they ought to resign themselves to being unmarried. However, heaven forbid Reginald be denied access to Northern European women.
an environment that marks us as second class citizens replete with discrimination and attacks
I do not support discrimination, apartheid, segregation, or making people second class citizens. I advocate geographic separation and independent ethnostates. No race should rule over or dominate another, and geographic separation is the only way to ensure racial preservation in the long run.
“However, heaven forbid Reginald be denied access to Northern European women.”
You really weren’t bright enough to understand the genetic argument for why locking Meds into an Ethnostate while allowing Nordics free access to part Med Women would damage my genetic interests, now were you?
Look at the poster before you, he ADMITTED that the POINT OF A NORDIC ETHNOSTATE IS TO REPLACE NON-NORDIC WHITE GENES WITH NORDIC GENES.
The whole idea that you care so little for Race that you’d fail to understand how upsetting that idea is to someone who’d have people of his blood, and people of his ancestor’s languages, and people of his ancestor’s cultures, on the receiving end of that kind of Genetic Ethnic Cleansing; is just incredible to me.
And you actually the venality to try to make the issue of this genocidal proposal a matter of mere sex!
You have disproved Nordic Supremacy in a single blow.
You have disproved Nordic Supremacy in a single blow.
Why do opponents of Northern European racial preservation use the same rhetoric anti-white leftists do? Advocating for Northern European racial preservation is not “Nordic supremacy.” I oppose supremacism and the domination of one race by another. I support racial preservation.
genocidal
Supporting destruction of Northern Europeans through amalgamation with other races is genocidal. Racial preservationism is the opposite of genocidal.
locking Meds into an Ethnostate while allowing Nordics free access to part Med Women would damage my genetic interests
I want an ethnostate for those of Northern European descent. I do not want Northern Europeans to mix with non- Northern Europeans. Whether it involves men or women, I oppose such mixing.
“I want an ethnostate for those of Northern European descent. I do not want Northern Europeans to mix with non- Northern Europeans. Whether it involves men or women, I oppose such mixing.”
That’s good.
I envision a White American ethnostate, one in which the White ethnies of the Old World unite into an emergent nation. I’m not alone. I believe that Nordish Separatists have a right to assert their own tribal identity and I don’t intend to suppress that. However, when you’re talking about being a separate endogamous people, you’re talking about being a completely separate nation. My assertion is that at some point after things actually start rolling, White Nationalism will need to branch into separate autocephalous movements representative of the different tribal identities people have.
We (White American Nationalists) have no more or less in common with Nordish American Nationalists than we do with any other White identity movement in Europe, South Africa, or anywhere else. We definitely need to work with alongside them in the struggles to come, just like we need to work with BNP, Jobik, and Boers.
In fact, I think this is the relationship we should insist on having with WN Jews. We ought not make enemies of them or bicker with them about whether they’re White or not. But as long as they’re endogamous Jews, they can’t claim to be the same nationality. Period. By definition (perhaps not a universal definition), a nation is generally endogamous.
What to do with people who have Jewish ancestry but identify exclusively as White Americans and appear indistinguishably White? To my mind, that’s the only truly vexing question in all this. The rest of this really comes down to Nordish Nationalists needing to recognize that their demand of separation must be followed to its only logical and acceptable conclusion: separate movements.
It’s no more fair to infiltrate the power structure of a White American movement with the intent to redirect it toward a more specific ethnonational identity than it is for Wops to infest a Nordish Separatist movement with the intent of acquiring one (or more) Nordish babe(s). I may be off base, here. But I think this tension will only grow until nationalist principles are applied to the problem.
My suspicion, please prove me wrong, is that Nordish Nationalism is a largely theoretical preference of a minority of intellectual and ideological radicals. I don’t believe they’re capable of agreeing among themselves on where to draw the Nordish line. I don’t believe they’re capable of reaching ordinary American folk with their message. I don’t think they have “legs” in the contemporary sociopolitical context.
I suspect that they’ll continue to inhabit the White American nationalist movement and create tension from within by insisting on an endogamous “nation within a nation” construct for themselves and injecting both memes and policies which favor their particular tribal identities over the other tribal identities in the coalition.
Reginald wrote:
“Robert Campbell described as some kind of good thing cases in History where Nordics used the technique of unreciprocated subrace mixing to wipe out massive numbers of Non-Nordic White genes.”
I did not say that, and I don’t appreciate you putting words in my mouth.
Many of your posts are condescending and seem to deliberately contradict the facts (the Nordic Weltfeind pursuing a group evolutionary strategy at the expense of other Whites? Are you serious? I must tell this joke to Kevin MacDonald someday). Please rein this stuff in and stop deliberately provoking conflict.
National Socialist Germany is an excellent example of the way in which a society could pursue Nordic-determinism (which is different from Nordish preservationism, and not what I’m advocating in America, per se, but no one here seems to want to talk about Nordish preservationism), without this being deleterious to the morale of the nation.
The SS was a Nordic-determined order, which believed that Nordic blood was the basis of Germany’s greatness as a nation. They portrayed the Blond, Blue-eyed Nordic ideal in propaganda, and informed Germans of the nature of their sub-racial heritage, without engendering ill will among the rest of the populace, many of whom shared the belief that “Die Nordische Mensch ist Natur’s Meisterwerk!”
Due to some of these Nordic-determined efforts undertaken by the NSDAP, the victors of the war are still able to convince some people, 65 years later, that Hitler wished “to murder everyone who wasn’t blond-haired and blue-eyed.” Thus, I understand the delicacy with which these issues much be broached, and I try not to focus on them too much at this stage of the game, because it’s putting the cart before the horse.
This blog isn’t for the promotion of Nordish preservation, although I reserve the right to write something along those lines at some point, but rather it is aimed at the creation of a Jew-free White ethnostate in North America. That is our goal. That is what we’re working toward here. Anything that distracts from this goal must be seriously reevaluated.
I understand that many Americans cannot tell you who their great grandparents were, ethnically speaking, and I have always found that somewhat striking. Whenever I ask someone their nationality, and they reply by saying “American,” it throws me off, as I have no idea what they’re trying to imply.
My experience has been somewhat unorthodox in that respect. None of my ancestors came to this continent before 1917, and if I moved to another country and gave up my American citizenship, I would cease to be an American, but I could always return to the UK and Ireland, based on Jus Sanguinis laws. Does that make me more British than American? Does it colour my feelings on this?
If I were a Nordish American living in the Midwest, and my family had planted deep roots there for centuries, and especially if I couldn’t track all of my antecedents back to Europa, my experience would obviously be very different, so I can understand where someone like Matt is coming from.
As I said previously, I think a lot of this misunderstanding is the result of the medium we’re using to communicate. I have never experienced such vitriolic arguments among fellow WNs in the real world. If Matt and I ever meet, I doubt the word “Nordish” will be spoken once, and if it is, I am sure we could reach an understanding fairly quickly; there is too much urgent work to be done upon which can all agree, for us to waste time in this manner.
Matt wrote,
“My suspicion, please prove me wrong, is that Nordish Nationalism is a largely theoretical preference of a minority of intellectual and ideological radicals. I don’t believe they’re capable of agreeing among themselves on where to draw the Nordish line. I don’t believe they’re capable of reaching ordinary American folk with their message. I don’t think they have “legs” in the contemporary sociopolitical context.”
Click on “The Nordish Gallery” and then peruse through the different sections.
McCulloch is following in the footsteps of Wilmot Robertson by advocating explicitly for the interests of Northernkind, and he’s doing a commendable job of doing so.
Whether or not we have “legs” in the modern sociopolitical context is an entirely different matter, but we do have a consistent message. At least, those of us who are actual Nordish preservationists, and not merely Nordic chauvinists or trolls playing divisive games on blogs, have a consistent message.
Robert,
I haven’t lost my temper or lost any goodwill for anybody involved. I agree that the medium does have its disadvantages and I intended to remain respectful while disagreeing.
I do believe that this issue must be resolved at some point in the future, but I agree that it’s not an impediment to our current goals. I may cut in when people attempt to imply that Nordicism is part of the agenda here or suggest that non-Nords are junior partners or worse. But, aside from that, I’ve said everything I have to say on the subject.
Robert,
I hadn’t realized that there was such a well-developed school around this Nordish thing. I’ve made a mental note to differentiate it from some of the superficially similar but substantially different ideas floating around here.
Matt,
I sort of got the impression that you were not aware of the difference between Nordish preservationism and Nordic Supremacism.
Richard McCulloch has written three lengthy hardcover books (all of which I have read) explaining Nordish identity and what it means to fight for it, and it has nothing to do with relegating non-Nordish Whites to the role of “junior partner” or anything similar.
The site to which I linked you, The Society for Nordish Physical Anthropology, was started by three Norwegian scientists, all of whom are friends of mine. They worked hard to make the SNPA site scientifically legitimate and serious in tone, bereft of any bigotry or chauvinism, and McCulloch assisted them in this effort. The SNPA site has been there for over 10 years, and most people within WN have come across it at some point. When I say “Nordish” I have a very clear idea of what I am saying, and what I am not saying, which is why it saddens me to see people like Reginald twisting my words and implying bad faith on my part.
Nordicism is something that should be practiced in secret, carefully guarded eugenic breeding and homeschooling.
Madison Grant is 100% Northwestern European. Nor does he look remotely “Med”; but if he did it would be irrelevant. British “Atlanto-Meds” are no more closely related to Italians or Greeks than are British Nordics. – n/a
Yes, the brown-eyed Madison Grant certainly does look far more Atlanto-Med than he does anything Nordic –
I edited your penultimate message and deleted your last one entirely. Stop the personal attacks.
OK Robert, sorry ’bout that.
No worries. You can make any point you wish to make, just keep it civil.
No worries. You can make any point you wish to make, just keep it civil.
Thanks buddy.
Your a good man, Robert.
Robert,
I wasn’t talking about internal German subracial policies. I had already noted that the National Socialists appear to have given preferment to German citizens based on merit, as opposed to a Pro-Nordic agenda. Also, perhaps partly due to Hitler hardly being a core Nordic type himself, there’s no indication that meaningful efforts were made to put less Nordic German and Austrian Whites at a reproductive disadvantage.
I’m talking about what Hitler was planning to do to the Russians.
All indications are that he wanted to take at least a non-trivial amount of living space from White Russians, and give it to more Nordic Germans and Austrians.
And in the same way that the Anglo-Saxon invasion of England constituted, I think, an at least de facto Evolutionary Strategy, what Hitler was at least thinking about doing to the Russians was a de facto evolutionary strategy as well.
And both of these evolutionary strategies, the one actually carried out and the more recent one only planned, would’ve had the effect of taking relatively Nordic bloodlines and using them to replace Non-Nordic bloodlines.
Now maybe I just imagined the passages in Hitler’s writings about the Germans needing to take more living space to their East, living space that would have to come at the expense of harming Slavic Whites.
But it seems like a pretty clear memory.
And both of these evolutionary strategies, the one actually carried out and the more recent one only planned, would’ve had the effect of taking relatively Nordic bloodlines and using them to replace Non-Nordic bloodlines.
What is your point? The Roman Empire’s incursions northwards into Gallia, Britannia, and Germania actually did have the effect in some instances of replacing Nordic bloodlines with non-Nordic bloodlines. And had the Roman Empire been successful in defeating the German Tribes, this effect would’ve been greater.
I wasn’t talking about internal German subracial policies. I had already noted that the National Socialists appear to have given preferment to German citizens based on merit, as opposed to a Pro-Nordic agenda. Also, perhaps partly due to Hitler hardly being a core Nordic type himself, there’s no indication that meaningful efforts were made to put less Nordic German and Austrian Whites at a reproductive disadvantage.
Absolutely true.
Only ‘kosher kostume nazis’ think – or wish to believe otherwise.
…Apart from being a derogatory, value-laden word that immediately lends itself to an array of catastrophic fantasies and judgment day scenarios, the word “Nazi” also gives birth to a schizoid behavior among a number of White nationalists, particularly in America. Many of them seriously project in their minds National Socialist Germany as a country populated by Albino-like Nordic- Übermenschen) possessing a hidden force that could be resuscitated any day either in Patagonia or on astral UFO’s. As noted previously in TOO (see here and here), the false reenactment of political events leads to their farcical repetition — with dangerous political consequences. In our postmodernity, the overkill of false images leads to the real kill. The often rowdy and infantile behavior of such “proud Aryan internet warriors” scares off serious White people who could otherwise be of some help in these decisive days of struggle for Western civilization. We must ask ourselves: Cui bono? Who benefits?
Indeed, the surreal image of National Socialism as exclusively Nordic has been promoted by the left — antifascist scholars, environmentalists, Freudo-Boasians, various Jewish and pro-Jewish academic think tanks, the caviar-left, the gated community White liberals, etc. How? For decades they have been cranking out an overkill of one-sided books and movies on National Socialism and racism, and this for two simple reasons. First, it pays well and provides lush media and academic sinecures. Secondly, there has been a well-conceived pedagogical project ever since 1945 to prevent a critical reexamination of race and racism. …
The Many Faces of National Socialism
For starters, the second most powerful National Socialist man in the Third Reich was a dark-haired “shrunken German” (“nachgedunkelter Schrumpfgermane”), the proverbial Joseph Goebbels, a thin man, little over 5 feet tall, whose stature and face resembled more an ancient Roman quaestor than a blond fighting machine. His thin lips, a round protruding back head (occiput), sad, yet very sharp eyes, testified to a man who under different historical circumstances would have made an excellent professor in comparative literature. Goebbels was born in the German province of Westphalia, close to France. In the 1st century ad, this area was an important Roman military outpost and a region in which many Germans today still show distinct Mediterranean facial traits.
The much discussed German anti-Slavic policies, which were based on the alleged racial inferiority of Slavs, are nonsense — all the more so since at least one out of three Germans carries the name of Slavic origin. Prior to 1945, well over 15 million Germans were born and lived in the Slavic speaking areas of East Europe, including the third-ranking man in the National Socialist command, the Russian-Baltic born German Alfred Rosenberg. Rosenberg’s face shows Nordic features with a slight Alpine Slavic streak.
…
Some of the highest ranking German generals in the Wehrmacht were of Slavic-German origin. Their family names are clearly Slavic and their skull morphology points to a large variety of all European subracial types, from the Alpine (“ostisch”), the Mediterranean (“westisch”) to the Nordic: Hans Hellmich, Curt Badinski, Bruno Chrobeck, Emil Dedek, Heinrich Domansky, Walter Dybilasz, Erich Glodkowski, Kurt Mierzinsky, Adalbert Mikulicz, Bronislaw Pawel, Georg Radziej, Hans Radisch, Franz Zednicek, Walter von Brauchitsch. So were the other high German officers such as the master of panzer warfare, the round-headed Heinz Guderian, who was of distant Armenian origin, or the tall and big-nosed Wilhelm Canaris, who was of Italian/Greek origin. (See the important book by Christopher Dolbeau — practically unknown in France — Face au Bolchevisme: Petit dictionnaire des résistances nationales à l’Est de l’Europe: 1917–1989. (Against Bolshevism: A Little Dictionary of National Resistances in East Europe: 1917–1989).
The Beautiful Beast?
To assume, therefore, that the Institute for Racial Hygiene in Germany or the Gestapo were checking the names or the cranial index of high German officials, before admitting them to high military positions is academic lunacy. Yet a type of deliberate lunacy is still alive in some influential anti-German conspiratorial circles in the West and in America. The alleged racism of Germans against Slavs was part and parcel of the Allied propaganda and later of the Frankfurt School, whose goal was to whip up Slavs during and after WWII into anti-German frenzy. By accepting more than one million volunteers from Russia, Ukraine, Croatia, Slovakia, etc. in the Wehrmacht and by allowing half a million non-German European volunteers in the Waffen SS, the German high military command thought it could create its own version of united Europe and successfully fight the war on two fronts. …
*Oh, and by the way, a little observation: I have noticed, over the years, that those who are the greatest ‘Nordicists’ are those with the least amount of actual Nordic ancestry. ;} Just sayin.
The SNPA site has been there for over 10 years, and most people within WN have come across it at some point. When I say “Nordish” I have a very clear idea of what I am saying, and what I am not saying, which is why it saddens me to see people like Reginald twisting my words and implying bad faith on my part.
It’s to be expected, you will see a lot of knee-jerk, Jewy, liberalesque behavior even among so-called white nationalists.
“the word “Nazi” also gives birth to a schizoid behavior among a number of White nationalists, particularly in America. Many of them seriously project in their minds National Socialist Germany as a country populated by Albino-like Nordic- Übermenschen) possessing a hidden force that could be resuscitated any day either in Patagonia or on astral UFO’s.”
You see this so frequent, it’s embarrassing. It’s time to embrace the view that we are a minorities minority. Impoverished in all things but our ancestral identity. There is not hidden army, will be no great awakening, no miracles. There are probably less then 1,000 of us. Once you accept this fact and realize how little we have going for us, then, and only then is it worth trying to build an ethnic network.
The SS was a Nordic-determined order, which believed that Nordic blood was the basis of Germany’s greatness as a nation. They portrayed the Blond, Blue-eyed Nordic ideal in propaganda, and informed Germans of the nature of their sub-racial heritage, without engendering ill will among the rest of the populace, many of whom shared the belief that “Die Nordische Mensch ist Natur’s Meisterwerk!”
Hunter made a very wise decision to put you in charge here, Robert. It would be a very different place without your knowledge and sound judgment.
This blog isn’t for the promotion of Nordish preservation, although I reserve the right to write something along those lines at some point, but rather it is aimed at the creation of a Jew-free White ethnostate in North America. That is our goal. That is what we’re working toward here. Anything that distracts from this goal must be seriously reevaluated.
It’s not a stated goal, but as North America was founded and populated by Northern Europeans, and it is our foremost desire to preserve the founding population, it should be taken for granted.
There are numerous peripheral and frivolous arguments like mass polygyny and disenfranchising women with the accompanying misogyny that aren’t goals either, but which most here seem to enjoy and revel in. Nordish preservation in contrast is much more significant and relevant, yet has some here up in arms.
Would be nice to read something from you about Nordish preservation in the future here at OD.
You see this so frequent, it’s embarrassing. It’s time to embrace the view that we are a minorities minority. Impoverished in all things but our ancestral identity. There is not hidden army, will be no great awakening, no miracles. There are probably less then 1,000 of us. Once you accept this fact and realize how little we have going for us, then, and only then is it worth trying to build an ethnic network.
Exactly brother Mike!
I say this in all seriousness, and with all due respect, that many among us have got to put their ‘Viking Saga’ fantasies aside regarding what defines ‘really White’ – and recognize the sober racial realities that actually exist in the real world among Europeans and Americans – and especially among Northern Europeans/Americans.
Let’s not discourage good people that we need to get into the movement — intelligent, mainstream White men, say those who are fed up with ZOG who work in the government or media who could be of crucial help to us — from drifting away from this blog because the first thing they see is some here saying that only ‘Anglo-Saxons’ (whatever exactly that means) or ‘Nordics’ are the only ‘real Americans’ — or another wax philosophical about polygamy, as if all he wants to get out of the movement is a harem of women for himself.
Again, the real-life German National Socialists would be appalled by much of this behavior.
Draw concentric circles around Greece, and you’ll include much of the Middle East before you ever get to France.
Indeed, and Dienekes, a huge anti-Northern European bigot and informal figurehead of Southern European pride, has admitted that non-European Caucasoids are just as European and Greek as the rest, much to the chagrin of Latin nationalists.
Indeed, and Dienekes, a huge anti-Northern European bigot and informal figurehead of Southern European pride, has admitted that non-European Caucasoids are just as European and Greek as the rest, much to the chagrin of Latin nationalists.
That is why he said this Mark, to denigrate Europeans.
Why anyone here would cite him is a bit perplexing.
In conclusion: Keep your pillaging Viking paws off Zooey Deschanel, you damn dirty Nordic.
Zooey is Nordish, sorry, we have already claimed her. Back in line, swarthoid! (joking)
She is already taken by Ben Gibbard.
It’s amusing to find out that even among Latins, they prefer Latin women that look Nordish.
That is why he said this Mark, to denigrate Europeans.
Why anyone here would cite him is a bit perplexing.
I never detected an anti-European or anti-white bias, but he’s definitely anti-Northern European and doesn’t care if America becomes majority non-white. Above all he’s a Greek nationalist.
It’s a humorous anecdote because for a while he was the hero of Latin nationalists, at least online.
Despite this he does have an interesting website with informative links on genetics.
It’s amusing to find out that even among Latins, they prefer Latin women that look Nordish.
That’s your first (and slightly bigoted ;}) mistake right there – since ‘Nordish’ does not neatly coincide with the borders of northern Europe exclusively. There are ‘Latins’ and Slavs that indeed look, and are Nordish — just as there are a plurality of northern Euros that don’t look Nordish.
I never detected an anti-European or anti-white bias, but he’s definitely anti-Northern European and doesn’t care if America becomes majority non-white. Above all he’s a Greek nationalist.
He is also part-Turkish or near-Eastern, so he definately has a motivation, and a horse in the race, so to speak, to ‘Europeanize’ those other parts of his ancestry.
In fact, I think this is the relationship we should insist on having with WN Jews. We ought not make enemies of them or bicker with them about whether they’re White or not. But as long as they’re endogamous Jews, they can’t claim to be the same nationality. Period. By definition (perhaps not a universal definition), a nation is generally endogamous.
What to do with people who have Jewish ancestry but identify exclusively as White Americans and appear indistinguishably White?
So Matt advocates assimilating Semites, and who knows what else, as long as they forsake their culture and ethnic ancestry? I’d say that is more contrary to the Jew-free White ethnostate than what I advocate.
“Draw concentric circles around Greece, and you’ll include much of the Middle East before you ever get to France.”
Greece has had gene flow both from Turkey and from the Balkans. The gene flow from Turkey may have been especially extensive, considering that they were under the Ottoman’s thumb for all too many years.
For this reason some, but certainly not all, gene maps fail to show a relationship between Greeks and Romance language speaking peoples.
And it is certain that the Greeks were much closer to Latin Whites when they doing great things like keeping the Persians out of Europe, inventing Geometry, inventing Philosophy, inventing Western Drama, etc.
“She is already taken by Ben Gibbard.”
Crucially, Zooey Deschanel became engaged to Ben Gibbard in the context of Latin White Men also being able to “cross the line”.
While you see Nords De-Medifying girls like Zooey now, you have to understand that Med Men are free to Re-Medify those sorts of bloodlines.
For this reason a process of De-Medification is extremely unlikely to occur.
What’s wrong, and what’s dangerous to the genetic interests of many Whites, is the idea of reproductively cutting Mediterranean White Men off from breeding with significant numbers of Med and part Med Women, via the mechanism of an absurdly expansive definition of the word Nordish.
“It’s amusing to find out that even among Latins, they prefer Latin women that look Nordish.”
Zooey does not look Nordish. It shows an expansionist definition of Nordish to even suggest such a thing.
Perhaps she looks more Nordish than some French Women, due to being part Irish, and the Irish having some degree of Viking rapist ancestry.
Also, my first preference was to use Audrey Tautou as an example of a Frenchwoman, and the only reason I said Zooey instead was because I wanted to pick someone who was born in America.
“…or another wax philosophical about polygamy, as if all he wants to get out of the movement is a harem of women for himself.”
Landser,
I hope the more intelligent readers of this site realize that if all I wanted was to legalize my getting a Harem of Women for myself, I would advance this goal in concert with a certain group of people who are both very Pro-Polygamy and rapidly expanding in their power.
In England there are reports of British Men who’ve escaped the Anti-Male madness of perverted Western Marriage laws by requesting the Government to place them under the jurisdiction of Sharia Courts.
But I couldn’t go down this sort of route for the reason that expanding the power of the Islamic religion would be harmful to Whites, due to Muslims being overwhelmingly Non-White European in their Ethno-Racial Backgrounds.
Also, my first preference was to use Audrey Tautou as an example of a Frenchwoman, and the only reason I said Zooey instead was because I wanted to pick someone who was born in America.
Tautou is more representative, and I think most people can see the difference between her and Zooey.
Mark,
I didn’t advocate assimilating Semites. I just received the most despicable death-threat laden tirade this morning for my advocacy work. I know you think you’re accomplishing something with your lies and your attacks, that you’re doing the important work of badgering people out of the movement who aren’t up to your standards of Nordic chauvinism. But please drop it. At least for a couple days.
I am so fucking tired right now of having more arrows in my backside than my frontside.
Matt,
Whoa! That’s not good.
I can send you an email about this if you prefer, but I’d like to know your thoughts on Bo Sears’ approach via Resisting Defamation. Has he or his group experienced the kind of hostility you mention?
If that approach does not work for you, why not?
I hope the more intelligent readers of this site realize that if all I wanted was to legalize my getting a Harem of Women for myself, I would advance this goal in concert with a certain group of people who are both very Pro-Polygamy and rapidly expanding in their power.
Ha. Could not be more obvious what to do if polygamy were the goal unto itself instead of a means to an end.
Oh well, the numbers will reveal all in time.
I hope the more intelligent readers of this site realize that if all I wanted was to legalize my getting a Harem of Women for myself, I would advance this goal in concert with a certain group of people who are both very Pro-Polygamy and rapidly expanding in their power.
Perhaps, Reg, but this topic does not have to be brought up with such frequency, and in threads that are only tangential, at best, to the discussion of polygamy or anything related to it.
Otherwise, you are one of the better writers on this blog.
Thanks,
Deutscher Landser
Cyd,
I don’t have exact numbers at hand, but the genetic distance between Northwestern Europeans and Southeastern Europeans is comparable to if not larger than that between SE Euros and Jews.
Reginald,
Cavalli-Sforza was working with the data available at the time, which for purposes of population genetics was much inferior to that now available. I should not need to tell someone who calls himself “statsaholic” why conclusions based on hundreds of thousands of SNPs should be more accurate than results based on a comparatively minuscule number of blood groups / protein polymorphisms.
“Also, whoever said that Greece is the center of the Meds? ”
There is no “center of Meds” because “Meds” are not a coherent group. But repeat the exercise for Southern Italy and you’ll find the same point stands.
“You are taking what I said out of context. This is the sort of bad faith which is at the heart of what you represent.”
I see. Directly repeating what you say is taking you out of context and demonstrates “bad faith”; ignoring what I say and determining I “ACTUALLY” want to “sexually disempower French blooded men” demonstrates good faith on your part.
Incidentally, I don’t want to “preserve the French race” in America. That’s what France and Quebec are for.
Matt,
“I envision a White American ethnostate, one in which the White ethnies of the Old World unite into an emergent nation.”
“We (White American Nationalists) have no more or less in common with Nordish American Nationalists”
Sorry, Matt, it was our country first.
“It’s no more fair to infiltrate the power structure of a White American movement with the intent to redirect it toward a more specific ethnonational identity”
“White American Nationalism” and “Nordish American Nationalism” were more or less synonymous for the entire history of the United States prior to George Lincoln Rockwell — and look how well pan-Europeanism worked out for him.
“My suspicion, please prove me wrong, is that Nordish Nationalism is a largely theoretical preference of a minority of intellectual and ideological radicals.”
Northern European preservationism is the revealed preference of the majority of white Americans.
“I don’t believe they’re capable of reaching ordinary American folk with their message.”
I recall reading a comment thread at Chronicles (one of only a handful I ever read) that featured paleocons (1) falling all over themselves to say they aren’t racist, while (2) indicating they would only marry and prefer their children marry other Northwestern Europeans.
I think this is more or less the attitude of most tradition-minded Americans. You are not going to win them over by telling them they are bad people for looking askance at the idea of their daughters marrying Italians.
I think this is more or less the attitude of most tradition-minded Americans. You are not going to win them over by telling them they are bad people for looking askance at the idea of their daughters marrying Italians. – n/a
Why are you so bigoted against ‘Eye-talians’?
I could understand if they were a bigger percentage of the American population, or, like it was in the early twentieth century where they were a growing, burgeoning population due to unchecked immigration… but, as we know, the 1924 Immigration Act sensibly stopped, or seriously curtailed disproportionate southern and eastern European immigration in favor of the Majority. As well, in case you were unaware, approximately 40-50% of southern Italian immigrants went back to Europe.
So, its 2010, not 1910, and many Italian Americans have assimilated and significantly acculturated to the Anglo Northern European mainstream of White American society.
Unsurprisingly, it appears the Jews and HBDers at Half Sigma despise “Nordicism” even more than white nationalism. The Undiscovered Jew in particular is very agitated about “the Nordic-WN crackpot contingent.”
“Cavalli-Sforza was working with the data available at the time, which for purposes of population genetics was much inferior to that now available.”
More data are not always better. Cavalli-Sforza picked the markers he did for the reason that they were known to be selectionally neutral. The way selection acts on a X% sample of the genotype will often diverge from how selection acted on the entire genome.
Also, how do you explain this Gene Map based on the same amount of data as your Gene Map?
A concentric circle can be drawn that includes ALL the Greeks, ALL the Italians, ALL the Spanish, ALL the Portuguese, about 95% of the French, a large portion of the Yugoslavs, and only a few Germans/Austrians/Hungarians and Czechs.
“There is no “center of ‘Meds’ because ‘Meds’ are not a coherent group.”
They clearly are a coherent group based on the map I linked to above, even if they appear to be a coherent group which lacks a living reprehensive of the group’s central tendency as the Northwestern European have Swede leaning Germans as a living representative of their central tendency.
“Directly repeating what you say is taking you out of context and demonstrates “bad faith”; ignoring what I say and determining I “ACTUALLY” want to “sexually disempower French blooded men” demonstrates good faith on your part.”
You are lying. What I really said was that as Nordic preservationist you would actually have a strong interest in sexually disempowering French blooded Men.
This was a logical and correct response to your statement that there would be no reason, from the standpoint of racial preservation, to include Frenchwomen but exclude Frenchmen from an Ethnostate.
Having an interest in something doesn’t always translate in to having a want. It is merely an extremely strong risk factor for having such a want, and your refusal to admit something so obvious as the interest Nordic preservationists would have in sexually disempowering French descended Men is suspicious to me.
“Incidentally, I don’t want to ‘preserve the French race’ n America. That’s what France and Quebec are for.”
Do you want to bleed the more Iberian and Italian like blood out of the French in America, via policies that would have the effect of cutting Iberians and Italians off from access to interbreeding with the French while maintaining the right of Nordics to do so?
“White American Nationalism” and “Nordish American Nationalism” were more or less synonymous for the entire history of the United States prior to George Lincoln Rockwell — and look how well pan-Europeanism worked out for him.”
You think you could’ve done better?
Give me a break. The entire system was against Rockwell, and would’ve crushed a Nordicist of similar promise as a leader at least as easily, had such a being existed to be crushed.
I wonder why such a being didn’t exist? Perhaps for the same reason you couldn’t even get control of the National Socialist regime?
“Northern European preservationism is the revealed preference of the majority of white Americans.”
You could also say that English preservationism is the revealed preference of the majority of White English people.
It scarcely says much.
“I think this is more or less the attitude of most tradition-minded Americans. You are not going to win them over by telling them they are bad people for looking askance at the idea of their daughters marrying Italians.”
I never said anything about personal preferences. Obviously if someone is X they have the right to be against their daughters having sex with anything other than X, if they so desire.
They just have to also be against their sons having sex with anything other than X.
Otherwise you’d be doing what the Romans briefly tried to do to Germanics, especially in Briton, and if you may recall this only had the effect of turning Germanics into savage and determined enemies of the Roman Empire.
It was one of the biggest mistakes Latin Whites ever made, as it led to the loss of possibly the single most valuable thing we ever created or had.
“Otherwise you’d be doing what the Romans briefly tried to do to Germanics, especially in Briton…”
Actually this should say: “Otherwise you’d be doing what the Romans briefly tried to do to Germanics, especially near the border of France and Germany…”
I think this is more or less the attitude of most tradition-minded Americans. You are not going to win them over by telling them they are bad people for looking askance at the idea of their daughters marrying Italians. – n/a
Eh, don’t worry, I am sure many Italian fathers would as well look askance to you looking to marry one of their daughters.
n/a – you need a hobby.
Unsurprisingly, it appears the Jews and HBDers at Half Sigma despise “Nordicism” even more than white nationalism. The Undiscovered Jew in particular is very agitated about “the Nordic-WN crackpot contingent.”
That’s because Jews, such as TUJ, and other questionably-looking non-Europeans try to blend in with Southern Europeans and claim they’re White.
Most of my opposition to Mediterraneans is the inclusive of these types.
I honestly don’t understand why it offends non-Nordish people when Nordish people want to remain themselves.
Because this is a strawman at best and disingenuously obtuse, at worst. It has nothing to do with you wanting to be yourselves, which *I* want that as well for you and me. It has to do with disrespect, barely hidden disdain, and “when we win” we may/will find ourselves in an environment that marks us as second class citizens replete with discrimination and attacks. Get it now?
n/a,
With respect to marker number size, how does that study compare to others that separate out say Jews vs Europeans, or various Slavic peoples, or even between Nordic peoples themselves? In other words, is 500K average, big, small?
“Draw concentric circles around Greece, and you’ll include much of the Middle East before you ever get to France.”
For one thing, this chart is inconsistent with The History and Geography of Human Genes. The distance of Italy appears to be different, for just one thing. Why should I give more credibility to it than Cavalli-Sforza’s work?
Also, whoever said that Greece is the center of the Meds?
You just pulled that out of your hat.
And one thing I see in the chart is that the French are closer to Iberians than they are to Swedes.
Therefore to say that the French and Swedes are the same group, but not the French and Iberians makes no genetic sense.
“Reginald’s assertion that Northern European preservationists want to “grab French women for themselves” is bizarre and tends to support blake’s assessment of his motives. ”
You are taking what I said out of context. This is the sort of bad faith which is at the heart of what you represent.
“It would of course make no sense from the standpoint of racial preservation to include French women but exclude French men in a proposed state.”
Such an idiotic thought never occurred to me.
The main point is that females are the limiting factor on reproduction.
To define the French as Nordish would have as its racial purpose the incorporation of French Women into the Nordish race.
And given that even you admit that the French have much more Med ancestry than the typical White American, Nordish Preservations would ACTUALLY have a strong interest in sexually disempowering French blooded Men in their ethnostate, so they can get all of the numerical benefit from breeding with French Women with only half the De-Nordification that would be attendant if the French Men were allowed to reproduce.
What you really want to preserve are Nordics and closely related groups. Therefore don’t patronize me with this stupid lie that you would feel some soft-hearted desire to preserve the French race.
“None of the Nordish preservationists here is advocating the genocide of non-Nordish Whites and the destruction of intra-White genetic diversity.”
You’re advocating policies that would lead to it, unless the Ethnic Core of Nordics was reproductively isolated.
“Nordish preservation is the preservation of intra-White genetic diversity.”
Then why do you later in this comment support the replacement of Non-Nordic Genes by Nordic Genes.
The very fact that Nordic genes are near the center of the European population is what makes replacing Non-Nordic genes with Nordic Genes such a genetic diversity killer.
You want to wipe out a significant degree of the genetic diversity we still have.
“It can be clarified and refined.”
You have shown yourself in this statement to be a moderate, in comparison to the typical Nordicist who can’t wait to turn every single subrace that’s a reasonable candidate for having their genes replaced with Nordic Genes into the subjects of an State explicitly run by and for Nordics.
“At any rate, within a Nordish ethnostate, I don’t see why the replacement would be a problem.”
Would you like it if steps were taken to replace the degree of Nordic blood found in Italy?
If all Italians of more than X Percent Northern European Blood were replaced by more purely Italic Italians, if all these sorts of more Nordic Italians had their bloodlines and families destroyed, would you take the attitude that because the genocide of Northern European blood from Italy occurred in what must have been an Italic Ethnostate, that somehow made it alright?
Support the coming Italic Ethnostate, Italian Blondes, and we’ll be sure to drive your family into extinction!!
What’s that? You don’t want to support it?
What are you, against Racial Preservation?!
I know what this is about, it’s about your sex lives isn’t it?
That’s the only possible explanation for why you wouldn’t support this glorious plan to cleanse Italy of foreign and disgustingly alien elements.
Yeah, I’ll be sure to keep that plan handy, just in case there’s ever a call to go to Italy and try to implement it.
What this discussion has convinced me of is that I would prefer pure bloody anarchy to an Ethnostate run by Nordicists.
At least in such an environment everyone would have a fighting chance, and perhaps the actual cream of the White Race would rise to the top.
For months, Reginald has been banging the drum for polygamy and telling men they ought to resign themselves to being unmarried. However, heaven forbid Reginald be denied access to Northern European women.
an environment that marks us as second class citizens replete with discrimination and attacks
I do not support discrimination, apartheid, segregation, or making people second class citizens. I advocate geographic separation and independent ethnostates. No race should rule over or dominate another, and geographic separation is the only way to ensure racial preservation in the long run.
“However, heaven forbid Reginald be denied access to Northern European women.”
You really weren’t bright enough to understand the genetic argument for why locking Meds into an Ethnostate while allowing Nordics free access to part Med Women would damage my genetic interests, now were you?
Look at the poster before you, he ADMITTED that the POINT OF A NORDIC ETHNOSTATE IS TO REPLACE NON-NORDIC WHITE GENES WITH NORDIC GENES.
The whole idea that you care so little for Race that you’d fail to understand how upsetting that idea is to someone who’d have people of his blood, and people of his ancestor’s languages, and people of his ancestor’s cultures, on the receiving end of that kind of Genetic Ethnic Cleansing; is just incredible to me.
And you actually the venality to try to make the issue of this genocidal proposal a matter of mere sex!
You have disproved Nordic Supremacy in a single blow.
You have disproved Nordic Supremacy in a single blow.
Why do opponents of Northern European racial preservation use the same rhetoric anti-white leftists do? Advocating for Northern European racial preservation is not “Nordic supremacy.” I oppose supremacism and the domination of one race by another. I support racial preservation.
genocidal
Supporting destruction of Northern Europeans through amalgamation with other races is genocidal. Racial preservationism is the opposite of genocidal.
locking Meds into an Ethnostate while allowing Nordics free access to part Med Women would damage my genetic interests
I want an ethnostate for those of Northern European descent. I do not want Northern Europeans to mix with non- Northern Europeans. Whether it involves men or women, I oppose such mixing.
“I want an ethnostate for those of Northern European descent. I do not want Northern Europeans to mix with non- Northern Europeans. Whether it involves men or women, I oppose such mixing.”
That’s good.
I envision a White American ethnostate, one in which the White ethnies of the Old World unite into an emergent nation. I’m not alone. I believe that Nordish Separatists have a right to assert their own tribal identity and I don’t intend to suppress that. However, when you’re talking about being a separate endogamous people, you’re talking about being a completely separate nation. My assertion is that at some point after things actually start rolling, White Nationalism will need to branch into separate autocephalous movements representative of the different tribal identities people have.
We (White American Nationalists) have no more or less in common with Nordish American Nationalists than we do with any other White identity movement in Europe, South Africa, or anywhere else. We definitely need to work with alongside them in the struggles to come, just like we need to work with BNP, Jobik, and Boers.
In fact, I think this is the relationship we should insist on having with WN Jews. We ought not make enemies of them or bicker with them about whether they’re White or not. But as long as they’re endogamous Jews, they can’t claim to be the same nationality. Period. By definition (perhaps not a universal definition), a nation is generally endogamous.
What to do with people who have Jewish ancestry but identify exclusively as White Americans and appear indistinguishably White? To my mind, that’s the only truly vexing question in all this. The rest of this really comes down to Nordish Nationalists needing to recognize that their demand of separation must be followed to its only logical and acceptable conclusion: separate movements.
It’s no more fair to infiltrate the power structure of a White American movement with the intent to redirect it toward a more specific ethnonational identity than it is for Wops to infest a Nordish Separatist movement with the intent of acquiring one (or more) Nordish babe(s). I may be off base, here. But I think this tension will only grow until nationalist principles are applied to the problem.
My suspicion, please prove me wrong, is that Nordish Nationalism is a largely theoretical preference of a minority of intellectual and ideological radicals. I don’t believe they’re capable of agreeing among themselves on where to draw the Nordish line. I don’t believe they’re capable of reaching ordinary American folk with their message. I don’t think they have “legs” in the contemporary sociopolitical context.
I suspect that they’ll continue to inhabit the White American nationalist movement and create tension from within by insisting on an endogamous “nation within a nation” construct for themselves and injecting both memes and policies which favor their particular tribal identities over the other tribal identities in the coalition.
Reginald wrote:
“Robert Campbell described as some kind of good thing cases in History where Nordics used the technique of unreciprocated subrace mixing to wipe out massive numbers of Non-Nordic White genes.”
I did not say that, and I don’t appreciate you putting words in my mouth.
Many of your posts are condescending and seem to deliberately contradict the facts (the Nordic Weltfeind pursuing a group evolutionary strategy at the expense of other Whites? Are you serious? I must tell this joke to Kevin MacDonald someday). Please rein this stuff in and stop deliberately provoking conflict.
National Socialist Germany is an excellent example of the way in which a society could pursue Nordic-determinism (which is different from Nordish preservationism, and not what I’m advocating in America, per se, but no one here seems to want to talk about Nordish preservationism), without this being deleterious to the morale of the nation.
The SS was a Nordic-determined order, which believed that Nordic blood was the basis of Germany’s greatness as a nation. They portrayed the Blond, Blue-eyed Nordic ideal in propaganda, and informed Germans of the nature of their sub-racial heritage, without engendering ill will among the rest of the populace, many of whom shared the belief that “Die Nordische Mensch ist Natur’s Meisterwerk!”
Due to some of these Nordic-determined efforts undertaken by the NSDAP, the victors of the war are still able to convince some people, 65 years later, that Hitler wished “to murder everyone who wasn’t blond-haired and blue-eyed.” Thus, I understand the delicacy with which these issues much be broached, and I try not to focus on them too much at this stage of the game, because it’s putting the cart before the horse.
This blog isn’t for the promotion of Nordish preservation, although I reserve the right to write something along those lines at some point, but rather it is aimed at the creation of a Jew-free White ethnostate in North America. That is our goal. That is what we’re working toward here. Anything that distracts from this goal must be seriously reevaluated.
I understand that many Americans cannot tell you who their great grandparents were, ethnically speaking, and I have always found that somewhat striking. Whenever I ask someone their nationality, and they reply by saying “American,” it throws me off, as I have no idea what they’re trying to imply.
My experience has been somewhat unorthodox in that respect. None of my ancestors came to this continent before 1917, and if I moved to another country and gave up my American citizenship, I would cease to be an American, but I could always return to the UK and Ireland, based on Jus Sanguinis laws. Does that make me more British than American? Does it colour my feelings on this?
If I were a Nordish American living in the Midwest, and my family had planted deep roots there for centuries, and especially if I couldn’t track all of my antecedents back to Europa, my experience would obviously be very different, so I can understand where someone like Matt is coming from.
As I said previously, I think a lot of this misunderstanding is the result of the medium we’re using to communicate. I have never experienced such vitriolic arguments among fellow WNs in the real world. If Matt and I ever meet, I doubt the word “Nordish” will be spoken once, and if it is, I am sure we could reach an understanding fairly quickly; there is too much urgent work to be done upon which can all agree, for us to waste time in this manner.
Matt wrote,
“My suspicion, please prove me wrong, is that Nordish Nationalism is a largely theoretical preference of a minority of intellectual and ideological radicals. I don’t believe they’re capable of agreeing among themselves on where to draw the Nordish line. I don’t believe they’re capable of reaching ordinary American folk with their message. I don’t think they have “legs” in the contemporary sociopolitical context.”
The neologism “Nordish” was coined by McCulloch, and its definition is quite clear and not at all in flux. See here: http://www.theapricity.com/snpa/index2.htm
Click on “The Nordish Gallery” and then peruse through the different sections.
McCulloch is following in the footsteps of Wilmot Robertson by advocating explicitly for the interests of Northernkind, and he’s doing a commendable job of doing so.
Whether or not we have “legs” in the modern sociopolitical context is an entirely different matter, but we do have a consistent message. At least, those of us who are actual Nordish preservationists, and not merely Nordic chauvinists or trolls playing divisive games on blogs, have a consistent message.
Robert,
I haven’t lost my temper or lost any goodwill for anybody involved. I agree that the medium does have its disadvantages and I intended to remain respectful while disagreeing.
I do believe that this issue must be resolved at some point in the future, but I agree that it’s not an impediment to our current goals. I may cut in when people attempt to imply that Nordicism is part of the agenda here or suggest that non-Nords are junior partners or worse. But, aside from that, I’ve said everything I have to say on the subject.
Robert,
I hadn’t realized that there was such a well-developed school around this Nordish thing. I’ve made a mental note to differentiate it from some of the superficially similar but substantially different ideas floating around here.
Matt,
I sort of got the impression that you were not aware of the difference between Nordish preservationism and Nordic Supremacism.
Richard McCulloch has written three lengthy hardcover books (all of which I have read) explaining Nordish identity and what it means to fight for it, and it has nothing to do with relegating non-Nordish Whites to the role of “junior partner” or anything similar.
The site to which I linked you, The Society for Nordish Physical Anthropology, was started by three Norwegian scientists, all of whom are friends of mine. They worked hard to make the SNPA site scientifically legitimate and serious in tone, bereft of any bigotry or chauvinism, and McCulloch assisted them in this effort. The SNPA site has been there for over 10 years, and most people within WN have come across it at some point. When I say “Nordish” I have a very clear idea of what I am saying, and what I am not saying, which is why it saddens me to see people like Reginald twisting my words and implying bad faith on my part.
Nordicism is something that should be practiced in secret, carefully guarded eugenic breeding and homeschooling.
Madison Grant is 100% Northwestern European. Nor does he look remotely “Med”; but if he did it would be irrelevant. British “Atlanto-Meds” are no more closely related to Italians or Greeks than are British Nordics. – n/a
Yes, the brown-eyed Madison Grant certainly does look far more Atlanto-Med than he does anything Nordic –
http://www.amren.com/ar/1997/12/MadisonGrant.gif.
Charlemagne:
I edited your penultimate message and deleted your last one entirely. Stop the personal attacks.
OK Robert, sorry ’bout that.
No worries. You can make any point you wish to make, just keep it civil.
No worries. You can make any point you wish to make, just keep it civil.
Thanks buddy.
Your a good man, Robert.
Robert,
I wasn’t talking about internal German subracial policies. I had already noted that the National Socialists appear to have given preferment to German citizens based on merit, as opposed to a Pro-Nordic agenda. Also, perhaps partly due to Hitler hardly being a core Nordic type himself, there’s no indication that meaningful efforts were made to put less Nordic German and Austrian Whites at a reproductive disadvantage.
I’m talking about what Hitler was planning to do to the Russians.
All indications are that he wanted to take at least a non-trivial amount of living space from White Russians, and give it to more Nordic Germans and Austrians.
And in the same way that the Anglo-Saxon invasion of England constituted, I think, an at least de facto Evolutionary Strategy, what Hitler was at least thinking about doing to the Russians was a de facto evolutionary strategy as well.
And both of these evolutionary strategies, the one actually carried out and the more recent one only planned, would’ve had the effect of taking relatively Nordic bloodlines and using them to replace Non-Nordic bloodlines.
Now maybe I just imagined the passages in Hitler’s writings about the Germans needing to take more living space to their East, living space that would have to come at the expense of harming Slavic Whites.
But it seems like a pretty clear memory.
And both of these evolutionary strategies, the one actually carried out and the more recent one only planned, would’ve had the effect of taking relatively Nordic bloodlines and using them to replace Non-Nordic bloodlines.
What is your point? The Roman Empire’s incursions northwards into Gallia, Britannia, and Germania actually did have the effect in some instances of replacing Nordic bloodlines with non-Nordic bloodlines. And had the Roman Empire been successful in defeating the German Tribes, this effect would’ve been greater.
I wasn’t talking about internal German subracial policies. I had already noted that the National Socialists appear to have given preferment to German citizens based on merit, as opposed to a Pro-Nordic agenda. Also, perhaps partly due to Hitler hardly being a core Nordic type himself, there’s no indication that meaningful efforts were made to put less Nordic German and Austrian Whites at a reproductive disadvantage.
Absolutely true.
Only ‘kosher kostume nazis’ think – or wish to believe otherwise.
*Oh, and by the way, a little observation: I have noticed, over the years, that those who are the greatest ‘Nordicists’ are those with the least amount of actual Nordic ancestry. ;} Just sayin.
The SNPA site has been there for over 10 years, and most people within WN have come across it at some point. When I say “Nordish” I have a very clear idea of what I am saying, and what I am not saying, which is why it saddens me to see people like Reginald twisting my words and implying bad faith on my part.
It’s to be expected, you will see a lot of knee-jerk, Jewy, liberalesque behavior even among so-called white nationalists.
“the word “Nazi” also gives birth to a schizoid behavior among a number of White nationalists, particularly in America. Many of them seriously project in their minds National Socialist Germany as a country populated by Albino-like Nordic- Übermenschen) possessing a hidden force that could be resuscitated any day either in Patagonia or on astral UFO’s.”
You see this so frequent, it’s embarrassing. It’s time to embrace the view that we are a minorities minority. Impoverished in all things but our ancestral identity. There is not hidden army, will be no great awakening, no miracles. There are probably less then 1,000 of us. Once you accept this fact and realize how little we have going for us, then, and only then is it worth trying to build an ethnic network.
The SS was a Nordic-determined order, which believed that Nordic blood was the basis of Germany’s greatness as a nation. They portrayed the Blond, Blue-eyed Nordic ideal in propaganda, and informed Germans of the nature of their sub-racial heritage, without engendering ill will among the rest of the populace, many of whom shared the belief that “Die Nordische Mensch ist Natur’s Meisterwerk!”
Hunter made a very wise decision to put you in charge here, Robert. It would be a very different place without your knowledge and sound judgment.
This blog isn’t for the promotion of Nordish preservation, although I reserve the right to write something along those lines at some point, but rather it is aimed at the creation of a Jew-free White ethnostate in North America. That is our goal. That is what we’re working toward here. Anything that distracts from this goal must be seriously reevaluated.
It’s not a stated goal, but as North America was founded and populated by Northern Europeans, and it is our foremost desire to preserve the founding population, it should be taken for granted.
There are numerous peripheral and frivolous arguments like mass polygyny and disenfranchising women with the accompanying misogyny that aren’t goals either, but which most here seem to enjoy and revel in. Nordish preservation in contrast is much more significant and relevant, yet has some here up in arms.
Would be nice to read something from you about Nordish preservation in the future here at OD.
You see this so frequent, it’s embarrassing. It’s time to embrace the view that we are a minorities minority. Impoverished in all things but our ancestral identity. There is not hidden army, will be no great awakening, no miracles. There are probably less then 1,000 of us. Once you accept this fact and realize how little we have going for us, then, and only then is it worth trying to build an ethnic network.
Exactly brother Mike!
I say this in all seriousness, and with all due respect, that many among us have got to put their ‘Viking Saga’ fantasies aside regarding what defines ‘really White’ – and recognize the sober racial realities that actually exist in the real world among Europeans and Americans – and especially among Northern Europeans/Americans.
Let’s not discourage good people that we need to get into the movement — intelligent, mainstream White men, say those who are fed up with ZOG who work in the government or media who could be of crucial help to us — from drifting away from this blog because the first thing they see is some here saying that only ‘Anglo-Saxons’ (whatever exactly that means) or ‘Nordics’ are the only ‘real Americans’ — or another wax philosophical about polygamy, as if all he wants to get out of the movement is a harem of women for himself.
Again, the real-life German National Socialists would be appalled by much of this behavior.
Draw concentric circles around Greece, and you’ll include much of the Middle East before you ever get to France.
Indeed, and Dienekes, a huge anti-Northern European bigot and informal figurehead of Southern European pride, has admitted that non-European Caucasoids are just as European and Greek as the rest, much to the chagrin of Latin nationalists.
Indeed, and Dienekes, a huge anti-Northern European bigot and informal figurehead of Southern European pride, has admitted that non-European Caucasoids are just as European and Greek as the rest, much to the chagrin of Latin nationalists.
That is why he said this Mark, to denigrate Europeans.
Why anyone here would cite him is a bit perplexing.
In conclusion: Keep your pillaging Viking paws off Zooey Deschanel, you damn dirty Nordic.
Zooey is Nordish, sorry, we have already claimed her. Back in line, swarthoid! (joking)
She is already taken by Ben Gibbard.
It’s amusing to find out that even among Latins, they prefer Latin women that look Nordish.
That is why he said this Mark, to denigrate Europeans.
Why anyone here would cite him is a bit perplexing.
I never detected an anti-European or anti-white bias, but he’s definitely anti-Northern European and doesn’t care if America becomes majority non-white. Above all he’s a Greek nationalist.
It’s a humorous anecdote because for a while he was the hero of Latin nationalists, at least online.
Despite this he does have an interesting website with informative links on genetics.
It’s amusing to find out that even among Latins, they prefer Latin women that look Nordish.
That’s your first (and slightly bigoted ;}) mistake right there – since ‘Nordish’ does not neatly coincide with the borders of northern Europe exclusively. There are ‘Latins’ and Slavs that indeed look, and are Nordish — just as there are a plurality of northern Euros that don’t look Nordish.
I never detected an anti-European or anti-white bias, but he’s definitely anti-Northern European and doesn’t care if America becomes majority non-white. Above all he’s a Greek nationalist.
He is also part-Turkish or near-Eastern, so he definately has a motivation, and a horse in the race, so to speak, to ‘Europeanize’ those other parts of his ancestry.
In fact, I think this is the relationship we should insist on having with WN Jews. We ought not make enemies of them or bicker with them about whether they’re White or not. But as long as they’re endogamous Jews, they can’t claim to be the same nationality. Period. By definition (perhaps not a universal definition), a nation is generally endogamous.
What to do with people who have Jewish ancestry but identify exclusively as White Americans and appear indistinguishably White?
So Matt advocates assimilating Semites, and who knows what else, as long as they forsake their culture and ethnic ancestry? I’d say that is more contrary to the Jew-free White ethnostate than what I advocate.
I’m an MMA fan so I thought I’d use this as an example. Do you see two White men here, Matt?
“Draw concentric circles around Greece, and you’ll include much of the Middle East before you ever get to France.”
Greece has had gene flow both from Turkey and from the Balkans. The gene flow from Turkey may have been especially extensive, considering that they were under the Ottoman’s thumb for all too many years.
For this reason some, but certainly not all, gene maps fail to show a relationship between Greeks and Romance language speaking peoples.
And it is certain that the Greeks were much closer to Latin Whites when they doing great things like keeping the Persians out of Europe, inventing Geometry, inventing Philosophy, inventing Western Drama, etc.
“She is already taken by Ben Gibbard.”
Crucially, Zooey Deschanel became engaged to Ben Gibbard in the context of Latin White Men also being able to “cross the line”.
While you see Nords De-Medifying girls like Zooey now, you have to understand that Med Men are free to Re-Medify those sorts of bloodlines.
For this reason a process of De-Medification is extremely unlikely to occur.
What’s wrong, and what’s dangerous to the genetic interests of many Whites, is the idea of reproductively cutting Mediterranean White Men off from breeding with significant numbers of Med and part Med Women, via the mechanism of an absurdly expansive definition of the word Nordish.
“It’s amusing to find out that even among Latins, they prefer Latin women that look Nordish.”
Zooey does not look Nordish. It shows an expansionist definition of Nordish to even suggest such a thing.
Perhaps she looks more Nordish than some French Women, due to being part Irish, and the Irish having some degree of Viking rapist ancestry.
Also, my first preference was to use Audrey Tautou as an example of a Frenchwoman, and the only reason I said Zooey instead was because I wanted to pick someone who was born in America.
“…or another wax philosophical about polygamy, as if all he wants to get out of the movement is a harem of women for himself.”
Landser,
I hope the more intelligent readers of this site realize that if all I wanted was to legalize my getting a Harem of Women for myself, I would advance this goal in concert with a certain group of people who are both very Pro-Polygamy and rapidly expanding in their power.
In England there are reports of British Men who’ve escaped the Anti-Male madness of perverted Western Marriage laws by requesting the Government to place them under the jurisdiction of Sharia Courts.
But I couldn’t go down this sort of route for the reason that expanding the power of the Islamic religion would be harmful to Whites, due to Muslims being overwhelmingly Non-White European in their Ethno-Racial Backgrounds.
Also, my first preference was to use Audrey Tautou as an example of a Frenchwoman, and the only reason I said Zooey instead was because I wanted to pick someone who was born in America.
Tautou is more representative, and I think most people can see the difference between her and Zooey.
Mark,
I didn’t advocate assimilating Semites. I just received the most despicable death-threat laden tirade this morning for my advocacy work. I know you think you’re accomplishing something with your lies and your attacks, that you’re doing the important work of badgering people out of the movement who aren’t up to your standards of Nordic chauvinism. But please drop it. At least for a couple days.
I am so fucking tired right now of having more arrows in my backside than my frontside.
Matt,
Whoa! That’s not good.
I can send you an email about this if you prefer, but I’d like to know your thoughts on Bo Sears’ approach via Resisting Defamation. Has he or his group experienced the kind of hostility you mention?
If that approach does not work for you, why not?
I hope the more intelligent readers of this site realize that if all I wanted was to legalize my getting a Harem of Women for myself, I would advance this goal in concert with a certain group of people who are both very Pro-Polygamy and rapidly expanding in their power.
Ha. Could not be more obvious what to do if polygamy were the goal unto itself instead of a means to an end.
Oh well, the numbers will reveal all in time.
I hope the more intelligent readers of this site realize that if all I wanted was to legalize my getting a Harem of Women for myself, I would advance this goal in concert with a certain group of people who are both very Pro-Polygamy and rapidly expanding in their power.
Perhaps, Reg, but this topic does not have to be brought up with such frequency, and in threads that are only tangential, at best, to the discussion of polygamy or anything related to it.
Otherwise, you are one of the better writers on this blog.
Thanks,
Deutscher Landser
Cyd,
I don’t have exact numbers at hand, but the genetic distance between Northwestern Europeans and Southeastern Europeans is comparable to if not larger than that between SE Euros and Jews.
Reginald,
Cavalli-Sforza was working with the data available at the time, which for purposes of population genetics was much inferior to that now available. I should not need to tell someone who calls himself “statsaholic” why conclusions based on hundreds of thousands of SNPs should be more accurate than results based on a comparatively minuscule number of blood groups / protein polymorphisms.
“Also, whoever said that Greece is the center of the Meds? ”
There is no “center of Meds” because “Meds” are not a coherent group. But repeat the exercise for Southern Italy and you’ll find the same point stands.
“You are taking what I said out of context. This is the sort of bad faith which is at the heart of what you represent.”
I see. Directly repeating what you say is taking you out of context and demonstrates “bad faith”; ignoring what I say and determining I “ACTUALLY” want to “sexually disempower French blooded men” demonstrates good faith on your part.
Incidentally, I don’t want to “preserve the French race” in America. That’s what France and Quebec are for.
Matt,
“I envision a White American ethnostate, one in which the White ethnies of the Old World unite into an emergent nation.”
Here is someone who shares your vision: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Israel_Zangwill.jpg
“We (White American Nationalists) have no more or less in common with Nordish American Nationalists”
Sorry, Matt, it was our country first.
“It’s no more fair to infiltrate the power structure of a White American movement with the intent to redirect it toward a more specific ethnonational identity”
“White American Nationalism” and “Nordish American Nationalism” were more or less synonymous for the entire history of the United States prior to George Lincoln Rockwell — and look how well pan-Europeanism worked out for him.
“My suspicion, please prove me wrong, is that Nordish Nationalism is a largely theoretical preference of a minority of intellectual and ideological radicals.”
Northern European preservationism is the revealed preference of the majority of white Americans.
“I don’t believe they’re capable of reaching ordinary American folk with their message.”
I recall reading a comment thread at Chronicles (one of only a handful I ever read) that featured paleocons (1) falling all over themselves to say they aren’t racist, while (2) indicating they would only marry and prefer their children marry other Northwestern Europeans.
I think this is more or less the attitude of most tradition-minded Americans. You are not going to win them over by telling them they are bad people for looking askance at the idea of their daughters marrying Italians.
I think this is more or less the attitude of most tradition-minded Americans. You are not going to win them over by telling them they are bad people for looking askance at the idea of their daughters marrying Italians. – n/a
Why are you so bigoted against ‘Eye-talians’?
I could understand if they were a bigger percentage of the American population, or, like it was in the early twentieth century where they were a growing, burgeoning population due to unchecked immigration… but, as we know, the 1924 Immigration Act sensibly stopped, or seriously curtailed disproportionate southern and eastern European immigration in favor of the Majority. As well, in case you were unaware, approximately 40-50% of southern Italian immigrants went back to Europe.
So, its 2010, not 1910, and many Italian Americans have assimilated and significantly acculturated to the Anglo Northern European mainstream of White American society.
http://www.halfsigma.com/2010/04/freds-comment-on-hbd.html
Unsurprisingly, it appears the Jews and HBDers at Half Sigma despise “Nordicism” even more than white nationalism. The Undiscovered Jew in particular is very agitated about “the Nordic-WN crackpot contingent.”
“Cavalli-Sforza was working with the data available at the time, which for purposes of population genetics was much inferior to that now available.”
More data are not always better. Cavalli-Sforza picked the markers he did for the reason that they were known to be selectionally neutral. The way selection acts on a X% sample of the genotype will often diverge from how selection acted on the entire genome.
Also, how do you explain this Gene Map based on the same amount of data as your Gene Map?
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ro2ijOk8JWc/SJ9PG9d6fCI/AAAAAAAAAHk/_8hqX4tEwaE/s1600-h/europevariation.jpg
A concentric circle can be drawn that includes ALL the Greeks, ALL the Italians, ALL the Spanish, ALL the Portuguese, about 95% of the French, a large portion of the Yugoslavs, and only a few Germans/Austrians/Hungarians and Czechs.
“There is no “center of ‘Meds’ because ‘Meds’ are not a coherent group.”
They clearly are a coherent group based on the map I linked to above, even if they appear to be a coherent group which lacks a living reprehensive of the group’s central tendency as the Northwestern European have Swede leaning Germans as a living representative of their central tendency.
“Directly repeating what you say is taking you out of context and demonstrates “bad faith”; ignoring what I say and determining I “ACTUALLY” want to “sexually disempower French blooded men” demonstrates good faith on your part.”
You are lying. What I really said was that as Nordic preservationist you would actually have a strong interest in sexually disempowering French blooded Men.
This was a logical and correct response to your statement that there would be no reason, from the standpoint of racial preservation, to include Frenchwomen but exclude Frenchmen from an Ethnostate.
Having an interest in something doesn’t always translate in to having a want. It is merely an extremely strong risk factor for having such a want, and your refusal to admit something so obvious as the interest Nordic preservationists would have in sexually disempowering French descended Men is suspicious to me.
“Incidentally, I don’t want to ‘preserve the French race’ n America. That’s what France and Quebec are for.”
Do you want to bleed the more Iberian and Italian like blood out of the French in America, via policies that would have the effect of cutting Iberians and Italians off from access to interbreeding with the French while maintaining the right of Nordics to do so?
“White American Nationalism” and “Nordish American Nationalism” were more or less synonymous for the entire history of the United States prior to George Lincoln Rockwell — and look how well pan-Europeanism worked out for him.”
You think you could’ve done better?
Give me a break. The entire system was against Rockwell, and would’ve crushed a Nordicist of similar promise as a leader at least as easily, had such a being existed to be crushed.
I wonder why such a being didn’t exist? Perhaps for the same reason you couldn’t even get control of the National Socialist regime?
“Northern European preservationism is the revealed preference of the majority of white Americans.”
You could also say that English preservationism is the revealed preference of the majority of White English people.
It scarcely says much.
“I think this is more or less the attitude of most tradition-minded Americans. You are not going to win them over by telling them they are bad people for looking askance at the idea of their daughters marrying Italians.”
I never said anything about personal preferences. Obviously if someone is X they have the right to be against their daughters having sex with anything other than X, if they so desire.
They just have to also be against their sons having sex with anything other than X.
Otherwise you’d be doing what the Romans briefly tried to do to Germanics, especially in Briton, and if you may recall this only had the effect of turning Germanics into savage and determined enemies of the Roman Empire.
It was one of the biggest mistakes Latin Whites ever made, as it led to the loss of possibly the single most valuable thing we ever created or had.
“Otherwise you’d be doing what the Romans briefly tried to do to Germanics, especially in Briton…”
Actually this should say: “Otherwise you’d be doing what the Romans briefly tried to do to Germanics, especially near the border of France and Germany…”
I think this is more or less the attitude of most tradition-minded Americans. You are not going to win them over by telling them they are bad people for looking askance at the idea of their daughters marrying Italians. – n/a
Eh, don’t worry, I am sure many Italian fathers would as well look askance to you looking to marry one of their daughters.
n/a – you need a hobby.
Unsurprisingly, it appears the Jews and HBDers at Half Sigma despise “Nordicism” even more than white nationalism. The Undiscovered Jew in particular is very agitated about “the Nordic-WN crackpot contingent.”
That’s because Jews, such as TUJ, and other questionably-looking non-Europeans try to blend in with Southern Europeans and claim they’re White.
Most of my opposition to Mediterraneans is the inclusive of these types.