Invitation to debate

I wrote the below letter to a black blogger in the Southeast, as he writes about “white bigots” and “fear of miscegenation.” I hope he’ll reply so I can post it here.

Discussing these issues with blacks and Jews is interesting so long as the discussion doesn’t devolve into threats or personal attacks. This stuff is interesting, and if you can get people’s throught processes going, you can watch their thinking evolve. I want blacks to understand that we white men will fight to the death to preserve our women. We are way more passionate about protecting our kin-women, than they are about their alleged “civil right” to sexual access to white women. Will he fight to the death for the “right” to a white girl? I doubt it, but I hope he’ll reply.

I came across your blog at —————— and thought you might want to have a civilized discussion about miscegenation.

I am a writer at www.occidentaldissent.com, which is a collective of white ethnic advocates. We express our views rationally and civilly, and we like to hear from the other side.

I was wondering if you want to have a debate or discussion about race-mixing, that I will post at Occidental Dissent, and you may post at your blog, if you wish. I think we should have this discussion without rancor, and put it out there for the world to see.

So here’s my initial thoughts about miscegenation.

1. Admixture of non-white with white shows up very strong. Whites have recessive genes, and so admixture with dominant black, Amerindian, Asian, mestizo, will make the resulting offspring definitely no longer white. In the case of black/white admixture, the kids sometimes end up orange. Most whites are afraid to admit it, but I’ll say it — there’s no way I want orange grandkids, or anything but white.

2. Whites are an extreme minority on the planet — only 8% and there is a push to “integrate” every white living space with non-whites, even places like Iceland and Norway. So we feel under threat of extinction, and will act accordingly. For whites, race-mixing equals pollution of the gene pool leading to genocide. It’s too bad you felt bad on the lake in 1972, but the granny under the umbrella was protecting her race, and I have to commend her.

3. I have known white families whose daughters shacked up with blacks. One, Sheri Morton, ended up with a knife sticking out of her eye. Another one, a very attractive blonde, ended up divorcing the black guy after a year, and her mother tells me she can’t find a white boyfriend because of her orange colored son. The mother wishes she had been more explicitly racist in raising her daughters. A third case, an attractive girl just out of high school, some black drug dealer in his 30’s latched on to her, told her he was a “record producer” because he rapped into a tape recorder. She bought it hook line and sinker (she was 19), she got pregnant with his kid, she was his drug mule, and now she’s doing hard time, and her parents are stuck raising the orange baby of a total sleazeball black. Yech! White men should have been able to intervene in all cases, and drive away the black predator. Black males on average are more likely to abandon the women they impregnate, even worse, leaving them with orange children, thus the white female is contaminated in the eyes of white men. We don’t want to raise black mens’ kids. There are limited resources in the world, and we want those resources to go to our own kind.

4. This is an issue we are willing to go to war over, in the long run. Right now the US police and military are way too strong for us. But if we had a fighting chance in hell against the pro-miscegenation camp, I know I’d fight to the death to save my race, and I know many white men who also would. I don’t think black men are as passionate about their alleged “civil right” to fuck white girls, as we are about protecting our precious white girls and women from racial alien sexual predators. Any time a black man gets sexual access to a reproductive age white female, the likelihood of that white female ever producing a white baby goes way way way down. Race-mixing is genocide.

Some background on me. I am a well educated, solidly middle class white man in New England. I make a living in high skill fields, including computers, foreign languages, and paperwork. I am fluent in Russian language. I don’t use racial slurs and don’t display or even own any traditional white ethnocentric symbology, such as confederate flags or iron crosses or any of that. No tattoos, no “tough guy” crap at all. I don’t have a problem with it, but it’s not my style. Most people who know me assume I’m a “liberal,” and I don’t tell them otherwise. I do not ever express hostile behavior to non-whites, or to anyone for that matter.

So reply if you want. I am interested to hear your view on what I just wrote, and I will publish it at Occidental Dissent if you do reply. I post there as “Kievsky.”

50 Comments

  1. Ha! You don’t get it, Soren. I want to draw fire. Look how much fun we had with the Psychic and the Satanist!

  2. Blacks, unlike Whites, don’t need to worry about miscegenation. Paleface genes are recessive. We have more need and reason for preservation. Blacks have an evolutional advantage here. When they mix with whites the result will always be unmistakenly negroid children with a lighter skin. Nonetheless these will always identify themselves as “Blacks”. See the case of Barack Obama. Same thing is true, to a minor extent, for Asians.

  3. I can understand that women of other races can be very attractive. I would not say no to a pretty Japanese or even some Black women, but having children? Never! What is having children good for, if they don’t even look like you?

  4. V – if you go Black we don;t want you back. Same goes for yellows. Try to make yourself more personally attractive. Post 5 suggests that you can’t get a White woman.

  5. Thanks Denise, I get White women enough, so don’t get hysterical please. But don’t think your race alone would qualify yourself for me. Just being white isn’t enough for a chick to be hot, even if this delusion might comfort you on your uhm darker days…

  6. What should white racists think about Kievsky’s “Invitation to debate”?In post 5, is V. a racist or merely a semi-racist?
    Truth would quickly cease to be stranger than fiction, once we got used to it. – H. L. Mencken
    Do most people disbelieve that Jews control the world economy? Is it possible that Jews are 2% of the U.S. population but control about 40% of the financial leverage in the U.S. economy? Are Jews about 30% of the Ivy League and similar American universities? Are socialism and capitalism two sides of the Jewish/Zionist coin?
    Do white racists need to focus on (1) exposure of the worldwide Jewish massive fradulent Ponzi scheme and (2) political organization of White Nationalism? Can non-whites be allies in the exposure but NOT allies in the political organization? Do white racists and white semi-racists need to separate themselves into several distinct political organizations? Is Ralph Nader a white man? Should an anti-black white woman married to a Chinaman be an ally of white racists (but in a different organization)? Do Asians like black Africans better than whites like black Africans?

  7. This is a good post. The products of miscegenation are not white. Miscegenation is the genocide of the white race.

    Miscegenation should be the #1 issue discussed by all real conservatives, occidentalists, race realists, white nationalists, etc.

    While affirmative action and black-on-white violence are bad things, miscegenation will be the trojan horse that destroys the white race.

    I suggest that everyone should devote multiple blog posts against miscegenation, make anti-miscegenation videos for youtube and other video hosting sites, and spread the word. This is the real battle. We need to make any white person engaging in miscegenation to feel guilty, trashy, as a traitor.

    The phrase “white trash” at one time meant a white who procreated with a non-white. Let’s popularize this meaning of the word. Everyone should use “white trash” in this sense.

  8. Kievsky,

    I love the genius behind your challenge. Hopefully, he’ll respond. Since the umpires of political correctness will not be setting the rules, it should be exceptionally entertaining for those of us with front row seats!

    Let the games begin!

  9. OK Elwood, I’ll bite:

    “What should white racists think about Kievsky’s “Invitation to debate”?

    It’s an interesting topic, and the invitation is a clever way to explain yourself. But I don’t think that the forum is well served by recruiting hostile outsiders to come spam all over it. It’s much more interesting place as it is currently. People who want lots of drama, anger and obscenity already have plenty of outposts, even WN ones, like Stormfront.

    “In post 5, is V. a racist or merely a semi-racist?”

    Depends on one’s definition I suppose. If one thinks of ‘racism’ as tribalism abstracted up a level then perhaps in some way’s V’s attitudes are a return to the older ways. Most tribal societies approve of their men carrying off women of other tribes. Ancient warfare typically included the winning tribe’s (or ancient nation’s) men having their way with the woman of defeated groups. Both for pleasure and procreation.

    It is said that Ghengis Khan is the most successful procreator in history, I’m sure the same is true of many a Viking raider (who would have considered the Irish girls they raped as much a different race as a modern racialist considers a Vietnamese girl to be), the Conquestadors, the Barbarian hordes invading the Roman empire, and many other racial, ethnic and tribal groups throughout history.

    On the other hand there is the more Modern racist theory, which I am not an expert on, but seems derrived from 19th century eugenics theory. Most of the people who self-identify as White Nationalists would, I suspect, find any race mixing apalling. The author of this thread is in that category, as are many of the commentators here.

    “Do most people disbelieve that Jews control the world economy?”

    It varies by location, greatly. For instance in Maylaysia the government has promoted this theory. Nice, new copies of Mein Kampf and The International Jew are prominently displayed in the largest bookstores in the showcase malls.

    In the USA the theory is widely known of, little known in any detail, and considered racist, anti-semetic and a sign of being a lower-class, uneducated yahoo.

    “Is it possible that Jews are 2% of the U.S. population but control about 40% of the financial leverage in the U.S. economy?”

    Yes. It is possible. I’m not sure if the definative studies have been done. Certainly there is tons of annecdotal information to support the domination theory.

    “Are Jews about 30% of the Ivy League and similar American universities?”

    Yes, I believe these numbers are available. Princeton has only 15% and has been debating why.

    “Are socialism and capitalism two sides of the Jewish/Zionist coin?”

    Both analyze man as primarily homo-economicus, so they are two sides of the same coin. Why and how economic philosophy came to dominate all other branches of philosophy is interesting. I’m sure that many Jews were involved in the creation and promotion of economic ideologies, as they tend to work in the land of theories and the academy where these are derrived.

    “Do white racists need to focus on (1) exposure of the worldwide Jewish massive fradulent Ponzi scheme”

    Perhaps, but I would claim it is secondary. Focusing on the opposition gives them power, and you become only an oppositional movement. There is much more strength in being a postive movement pointing towards a creative end. This is my opinion, others no doubt see it differently.

    “and (2) political organization of White Nationalism?”

    Again, my view is this should be the primary focus, perhaps along with ideology, visualization and religious or philosophical development.

    “Can non-whites be allies in the exposure but NOT allies in the political organization?”

    Sure on the exposure. In so far as other groups are negatively impacted they can help expose things. Mathuir Mohammed, as explained above, has socialized the exposure of the Jewish conspiracy throughout his entire nation (which he is longtime PM of). But there will of course be differences.

    At the far extreme of the movement are the genocidal eliminationists who dream of a “white planet” and so, to them there is probably no desire or reason to cooperate even situationally with any other group. (The many shades of thought and lack of agreement on basic goals is the obvious weakest part of the movement.)

    “Do white racists and white semi-racists need to separate themselves into several distinct political organizations?”

    That probably makes sense. If nothing else it allows prospective recruits to sort out what they think but understanding the different factions, it give people with different levels of belief a home. Keeping the factions from fighting each other (vs. common enemies) is always the problem with such divisions. For whatever reason the left is great at coalitions and the right is terrible at them.

    “Is Ralph Nader a white man?”
    I don’t know. Why is that important? If the general question is: “who is white” for the purpose of supporting White Nationalism he’s probably not the best example. I kinda doubt he’s going to turn White Nationalist anytime soon.

    The general question is an interesting one, and again there are different answers from the “one drop rule” of the old south to the other tendencies held by some to accept various mixes and groups. Are Italians white?

    “Should an anti-black white woman married to a Chinaman be an ally of white racists (but in a different organization)?”

    It will depend on your philosophy, so I guess I am saying build that in a coalition there is probably a place for her. But of course some would say “No” emphatically. What if she left the husband, perhaps even due to her increasing racial awareness? I think many would say: “welcome”. Some would still say “No”, vehemently. What then of V. above (and I suspect many other white men in the movement), who have had sexual or romatic affairs with non-whites? Again, I think many would say that isn’t a reason to reject such people from the movement, but there are others who would.

    In Covington’s “Hill of Ravens” a woman is executed 40 years after the revolution when her grandson finds a romantic picture of her with an Oriental man in a box of high-school keepsakes.

    “Do Asians like black Africans better than whites like black Africans?”

    No, in my experience they do not. Most Asians are quite racist and not shy about it, and have a particular disdain for the black race. In contrast many whites (particularly in America) see something cool about black Africans. For one thing it’s a way to prove you aren’t racist, by having black African friends you can have black friends without inviting the chaos and social pathology of American blacks into your life. For another the whole African idea has been romanticized for White Americans for a generation, in everything from “The Lion King” to the music of Bob Marley.

  10. “In post 5, is V. a racist or merely a semi-racist”?

    As I prefer the word “race realism” to “racism”, I guess I just wanted to point out that erotic, emotional and spiritual attraction between people of different races certainly occurs often. If it wasnt like this race mixing wouldnt be a problem (and no, Denise, it is not just the Omega Males or Females that give in to that.) It is a completely natural thing, and erotic attraction, as everyone knows, is often enhanced by the forbidden and the exotic. Only hypocrites or people with little life experience would deny this. At least I can see that there are few white guys around who aren’t attracted to the delicacy of beautiful Japanese women (if you will also a result of a racially conscious culture.) (Hell, that trait was even featured on “Stuff White People Like”.) On a level of aesthetics even Leni Riefenstahl would agree to this as you can see in her stunning books about the Nuba. Also note that erotic attraction has little to do with a conscious will for reproduction – Julius Evola ridiculed this assumption in his famous “Metaphysics of Sex”. The women you desire as your lover might not be the same women you want to be the mother of your children, no matter from which race you pick them.

    As much as I support most WN matters, I think it should not forgotten that the world is both vertically and horizontally divided. Class, intelligence, physical beauty etc can produce strong connections and similar vibes between people of different races. But when I think of all the white scum and white genetic disasters you can meet daily in the subways, the Blacks can have all the white trash bitches for free, if it does enhance their gene pool.

    Still I think that race mixing, especially with Whites and Blacks, is not a desirable or reasonable thing, especially for the children produced hereby, as they almost always suffer from identity problems. And I think it is quite despicable for a man to give over his genes to children that wont even look like him, even more so for a woman, whom I more ready to forgive, as women always join the victors and have no self-preservation instinct of their own.

    For Black men the attraction to White women has several aspects:
    1. beautiful White women are universally appreciated and desired, by all races.

    2. It is still a culturally informed and maybe sociobiological thing: the White woman was the forbidden fruit for Black men for a long time. To win the White woman was a symbol for status, accomplishment, getting ones foot into the envied society of Whites. And as I said being forbidden makes a thing more desirable. Sex kicks are all about taboo-breaking and social transgression. For the same reason, sex with a the big Black animalistic man became a major fantasy of White women, and that not only because of their large cocks (same as women phantasize about rape very often – sorry to offend some here, but thats the way it is. Sexuality is not politically, racially or otherwise-ally correct. Read the books of Nancy Friday on that.)

    Closely linked to that is the feeling of revenge on the White man, the lust to take over his goods, to defile them, to occupy them, to symbolically castrate the rival, just as in wars often massive rapings of enemy women occur. As I said, Blacks are in a genetical advantage here: if WE take their women Barbarian style, even and especially the hot ones, we lose – because the enemy genes will keep upper hand.

  11. I have a hard time seeing this turn into anything other than a train wreck. But it should be interesting.

  12. Bradley wrote:

    “The products of miscegenation are not white. Miscegenation is the genocide of the white race.”

    Jews hold these beliefs widely. There are entire Jewish charities (well funded, at least until Madoff’s ponzi collapsed) that promote this view among Jews.

    Of course Jews are strongly matrilineal, it is the “mother” that counts, mostly, in inheriting Jewishness. (A rule that made sense pre-DNA testing as the only “true” proof.)

  13. Ah, here is an article on the Jews and intermarraige, with much food for thought.

    http://judaism.about.com/od/interfaithfamilies/a/intermarr_jew.htm

    (My comments in parens)

    (They have been at this ‘maintaining ethnic purity in a mongrol society’ thing for a long time, though it appears they are losing the plot.)

    (How typical that this article is at ‘about.com’, a very mainstream site. Were the article to cover the same topic in equally dispassionate language vis-a-vis White intermarraige, I doubt it would be included in about.com. )

    (Note too, Jews still get married (even if to non-Jews half the time these days) before making babies, something more and more white people don’t bother with. Before you can prevent intermarraige, you need to reintroduce marraige itself as a desired or required pre-requisite to making babies and co-habitation.)

    (The lower class white-trash seem to be apeing breeding habits of the blacks and mestizos who they live in proximity too, while there is a distinct culture of “Murphy Brown”, with varieties like turkey-baster single-moms, for the upper middle class whites & lesbians. )

    The whole article is well worth reading, but here are some intersting clips (my comments still in parens):

    All branches of Orthodox Judaism, both Haredi and non-Haredi, view intermarriage as wrong and refer to intermarriage as a “Second Silent Holocaust.”
    (essentially the same viewpoint as Bradley expressed for Whites)

    In the past, Jewish intermarriage was rare. It generally occurred when a Jew deliberately rejected his/her religion and heritage and sought to assimilate into Christian society. In response to this rejection, the Jewish community disowned intermarried Jews. It was common for Jewish parents to sit shiva (Jewish mourning ritual) for children who intermarried.

    The reasons for intermarriage today differ from those in the past. Intermarriage today is primarily the result of 1) American Jews living in an open society in which they are more likely to meet non-Jews, 2) American Jews being less educated about and thus attached to Judaism and their Jewish heritage.

    The vast majority of American Jews receive no Jewish education after age 13. Thus, their knowledge of Judaism is elementary, and they are not exposed to the more advanced theological, philosophical, and ethical teachings of Judaism. Since they are not knowledgeable about their heritage in the first place, intermarriage today, in contrast to intermarriage in the past, is not a deliberate rejection of Judaism. (OK, but I can think of a few other reasons… )

    The reasons for intermarriage today differ from those in the past. Intermarriage today is primarily the result of 1) American Jews living in an open society in which they are more likely to meet non-Jews, 2) American Jews being less educated about and thus attached to Judaism and their Jewish heritage.

    The vast majority of American Jews receive no Jewish education after age 13. Thus, their knowledge of Judaism is elementary, and they are not exposed to the more advanced theological, philosophical, and ethical teachings of Judaism. Since they are not knowledgeable about their heritage in the first place, intermarriage today, in contrast to intermarriage in the past, is not a deliberate rejection of Judaism.

    The survey did find that Orthodox Jews in America maintain strong opposition to intermarriage. 84 percent of the Orthodox Jews surveyed said they would be pained if their child intermarried, compared to 57 percent of Conservative Jews, 27 percent of Reform Jews and 19 percent of unaffiliated Jews.

    (So, essentially the religion has a major role in reinforcing the ethnic and racial makeup of the group. As the religion dies, so too does the ethnicity. One might say the “Jew meme” is breaking down.)

    (The article is obviously written from a liberal Jewish perspective and closes with this: )

    Given these changes, past responses, such as disowning and neglecting, no longer seem like the most effective way for American Jewry to face the reality of intermarriage. 33 percent of currently wed American Jews are intermarried. And only 33 percent of intermarried couples are raising their children to be Jewish. Isn’t it time to stop casting off and start reaching out?

    (Of course the Orthodox answer is “No, that’s backwards. Why would I care about non-Jews, who have turned their back on our traditions. They knew the rules and broke them and are no longer memebers of the tribe.)

  14. Nobody’s going to “spam” the board, as we can set moderation.

    I have years of experience debating with antis, but they always had the “ban” button, or “delete posts” button. Now I have a sandbox, and they can’t ban me here!

    We want to have debates that get around the internet and go viral. The person I wrote to gets MSM exposure.

    I am really interested to see if blacks are ready to defend their so-called “right” to destroy white family lines.

  15. Your argument supposes that we are still living in a tribal society, doesn’t it? The West in general, and America even more so, makes no explicit claim that the “society owns the individual”. Quite the opposite.

    So the black antagonist need not claim the right to “destroy white family lines”, only appeal to the nearly universally held American belief that individuals are free to make their own decisions about whom to breed with.

    Most Americans (especially white Americans, except the tiny WN minority) reject tribalism. Our law rejects tribal claims. Mostly even the culture (again with some small exceptions) rejects tribal claims. In other words: You as a White man have no special rights to be concerned, no claim, against the breeding choices of any given White woman.

    Obviously these same rules don’t apply to Jews, they have not let the larger culture destroy their tribal claims. Even Black culture (in America) still more effectively makes tribal claims than the White majority.

    So, the WNs want to re-establish these claims, but today it’s not in place. So (while I doubt your antagonist would explain it this way) he’s just doing what the white tribe currently appoves of.

  16. When you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas.

    When you lie down with chimps you get up with blowfly eggs hatching in your pubes.

  17. “Orange grandchildren” is great Kievsky. You are an excellent propagandist, maybe it’s the Army linguist background?

  18. Thanks SSSS. I think I got the “mulattos are orange” from someone else, but it fits. They are orange.

    I keep a library in the back of my consciousness of all anti-miscegenation propaganda that I come across. Another couple of things:

    Pharmacies in black areas have a whole section devoted to “make me look more white.” Hair straighteners, skin lighteners, et cetera. It’s easier to be born white, than go through your life trying to “whiten” yourself cosmetically.

    Have you noticed that people will fawn extra special over mulatto babies? It’s because they are horrified at their own “evil” feelings of revulsion.

    Lastly, you’ll notice if you look, that mudsharks pull back their hair violently. They don’t let their hair cascade over their shoulders. They are ashamed of their own defiled white womanhood, and they punish their hair. Mudsharks also have bad skin. I believe it’s because blacks and whites have incompatible skin oils, and there is an allergic reaction. I bet the allergic reaction is medically known but suppressed knowledge.

  19. “In post 5, is V. a racist or merely a semi-racist”?

    As I prefer the word “race realism” to “racism”, I guess I just wanted to point out that erotic, emotional and spiritual attraction between people of different races certainly occurs often. If it wasnt like this race mixing wouldnt be a problem (and no, Denise, it is not just the Omega Males or Females that give in to that.) It is a completely natural thing, and erotic attraction, as everyone knows…
    __

    Race-Mixing: Not Just for Losers Anymore? | The Occidental Quarterly

    When most people see whites dating non-whites, the immediate assumption is that there is something wrong with the white. Usually the defects are obvious. We know why a homely or obese white woman is sleeping with blacks or Mexicans: they are willing to overlook her faults because she is white. We know why a geeky, acne-scarred white man gravitates towards Asians: they are willing to overlook his faults because he is white (and of course the aliens are angling for green cards and money as well).

    And what about attractive whites who date non-whites? In recent years, more and more white men who are not obvious losers are dating Asians. But according to the conventional wisdom, they probably have hidden physical or psychological defects, such as a self-esteem problem. (Seems pretty reasonable to me.)

    Race-mixing is sold as an expression of progress in racial equality: fair Romeos will no longer be separated from their dusky Juliets by the antiquated prejudices of their parents’ generation. But the ugly truth is that race-mixing usually presupposes racism and racial hierarchies. The whites feel that they are dating or marrying down, and the non-whites feel that they are dating or marrying up.

    White losers are attracted to marrying down, because they feel that their grateful partners will overlook their flaws for the privilege of marrying into a superior race, and their non-white partners think the same thing: they could never get a normal white, but they are willing to take up with a subnormal one, because they want to marry into a superior race.

    An allied attitude is that non-whites can’t be blamed for wanting to date or marry whites. Their racial betrayal is seen as a completely healthy impulse. The attitude is: “Who could blame black men for pursuing white women? Have you seen black women?” “Who could blame Asian women for wanting to date white men? Just look at Asian men!” (Everybody also knows that Asian men and black women are the big losers in the inter-racial dating game.)

    These are not, moreover, the attitudes of hardcore racists alone. Virtually everyone believes this, white and non-white, race-mixers included. I hold these views, even though I know that there are obviously some cases in which they are not true. (There is enough interaction between the races now that perfectly normal people can form friendships that turn into romances.) But the attitudes persist, because they are what Burke calls “wise prejudices”–based on past experience, repeatedly confirmed by new experiences, and therefore handy heuristic assumptions to maintain when visiting the Bay Area.

    But even though everyone believes that white race-mixers are defective, nobody really talks about it. Even the diversity police who obsessively try to expose every other instance of hidden racism, real or imagined, remain silent. I suspect they are silent because they know that a widespread discussion of this attitude would inhibit race-mixing, and they don’t want to do that.

    White race-mixers may know they are defective, but they think that others do not divine this fact when they parade their non-white paramours in public . If they knew that others saw them as defective, they might not be so enthusiastic about race-mixing. This is especially true of otherwise attractive and normal-looking white race-mixers, who would not be suspected of having hidden flaws if they did not advertise them by pursuing non-white sexual partners.

    The people who create these movies–the directors, the writers, the producers, the casting directors–are not artists. They are abortionists. They are aborting the whole future of the white race. And they are not doing it by accident. We know this, because so many of them are Jews, who are constantly reminded from birth that marrying out leads to extinction for them, and they know that goes for us too. (The fact that many of these Jews marry out make them even worse. It means that they are committing genocide against their own people as well as ours.)

    When the white nationalist movement can mobilize the numbers, the idealism, and the physical courage evoked by the anti-abortion movement, then I will stop fearing for the future of my race. And even then, it will take a full-blown revolution, not merely a constitutional amendment, to save us.

    http://www.toqonline.com/2009/06/race-mixing/

  20. Debating against miscegenation with blacks is too easy, they’re the bottom of the evolutionary scale. It’s not necessary since the products of which aren’t remotely white, everyone can see it, and they almost always identify as black and are assimilated by them. The real debate lies with the more subtle forms of miscegenation that pass for white or are accepted as close enough and so are incorporated into the white gene pool, such as mestizos, hapas, mischlings, etc.

    They’re less orange and more of a “high yella” as we say in the South. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Harold_Ford,_Congressional_photo_portrait.jpg

    What would you say about Thomas F. Bertonneau, who writes for Alt Right? http://www.alternativeright.com/media/k2/users/30.jpg

    The problem with relying upon crime or bad behavior as a reason to not miscegenate, is when there is a black or non-white that is a model citizen you have lost the argument.

  21. Kievsky: I get it. I also dislike it. Create the new world by living as if it were already created. You wouldn’t invite a black girl to sleep with you. Why would you invite a black man to a conversation? And — if you did do either one — why would you rub our faces in it?

  22. ATBOTL: whites do have recessive traits. The children of mixed marriages almost always look nothing like the white parent. Tiger Wood’s dusky children in no way resemble Elin Nordegren. As Frank Salter has pointed out, the children of mixed-race marriages share fewer genes with their parents, especially with their white parent.

    Jackson is correct. We need to resuscitate tribalism.

  23. I think he wants to stir up the OD natives by talking about the most revolting, crass subject matter he can. Of course he’s never one for drama he tells us. Sure, let’s invite niggers to tell us why they think having sex with white women is good for America. It’s like when Linder posted interracial porn on the front page of his website.

  24. ATBOTL writes: This stuff about “white genes” being recessive is unscientific nonsense.

    Well, perhaps not ALL white genes, but the ones that make us LOOK white are, right? Aren’t blue/green/grey eyes the classic recessive gene? Isn’t it impossible to get them unless both parents have them (the meaning of the term ‘recessive’). Therefore a blue-eyed blond mating with a brown or black-eyed negro will produce dark eyed children. So their eyes will be more like the black parents.

    Same for blond hair, straight hair, freckles, and other physical manifestations of us pale people.

  25. It’s nothing like posting interracial porn. Give me a break.

    More like psy-ops. However, the the fish didn’t take the bait. No surprise there.

  26. Hello.

    This post might be the most interesting, serious and yet and seriously hilarious letter I have ever read.

    I too hope your ‘friend’ responds.

    Good Luck.

  27. Sorry—please edit my extra ‘and’ in the comment above if you do indeed allow my comment?

    Thank You

    🙂

  28. A white woman from England explains difficulties of having a mixed-race baby (with a man from India):

    “Don’t get me wrong, I love her. She is the child I didn’t think I’d have after my first marriage broke up. She is the only granddaughter in our family and we all dote on her.

    But when I turn to the mirror in my bedroom to admire us together, I am shocked. She seems so alien. With her long, dark eyelashes and shiny, dark brown hair, she doesn’t look anything like me.

    I know that concentrating on how my daughter looks is shallow. She is a person in her own right, not an accessory to me. But still, I can’t shake off the feeling of unease.

    I didn’t realise how much her looking different would matter and, on a rational level, I know it shouldn’t. But it does.

    Evolution demands that we have children to pass on our genes, hence the sense of pride and validation we get when we see our features reappearing in the next generation.

    With my daughter, I don’t have that.”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-467787/I-love-mixed-race-baby–does-feel-alien.html

  29. ATBOTL: “This stuff about “white genes” being recessive is unscientific nonsense” <———NOT TRUE!
    I am by no means an “expert” on the subject, but I did have some elementary genetics as part of my advanced biology courses in college (tho that was some years ago), and it is a well established fact that white genes for skin color (and eye color) among others are recesssive. Some white genes are recessive even among whites; for example, a mating between two whites one of whom has only two genes for brown eyes and another white with one gene for brown and one for blue eyes will have no chance of having a child with blue eyes (blue eyes require two genes for that trait “BB”), whereas if both parents have each one gene for blue eyes, then there is a one in four chance of a child being produced with blue eyes. Two white parents who both have blue eyes can ONLY produce children with blue eyes (because neither parent has a “brown gene” to transmit to the child). If you happen to see a white couple, both having blue eyes and they have a brown eyed child in tow-then you can be 100% certain that A) the child was adopted, or B) the child is the product of a previous marriage, or C) daddy was cuckholded! LOL

  30. The thin edge of the wedge for “debating” (you don’t debate blacks, they lack the gene required) black men vis-a-vis miscegenation is to associate the disgust you feel when you see a black man with a white woman with the disgust they feel when they see a black woman with a white man. They’ll never admit it, but you’ll at least hit home.

  31. We have more need and reason for preservation. Blacks have an evolutional advantage here. When they mix with whites the result will always be unmistakenly negroid children with a lighter skin. Nonetheless these will always identify themselves as “Blacks”.

    There’s no rule that says that they will “always” — forever and ever, until the end of days — identify themselves as black. In fact, in countries that have been mixing with blacks the longest, people most certainly do not do that. So blacks actually do have an interest in preservation. They’ve got a common culture, a common history, a common sense of peoplehood; race-mixing does dilute that and eventually it will do them in, too. It’s a wonder that more of them can’t manage to see that. They’re already a bit sensitive about the hierarchy that exists within their ranks even at present; what’s it going to be like if there’s a wholesale defection from ‘blackness’? Bye-bye political power, for one thing.

    Mark,

    The numbers that fit your standards (‘standards,’ in the neutral sense of the word, that I’ve always agreed with and unthinkingly assumed, btw) of ‘white’ are what, thirty, maybe fourty percent of America (and declining)? How many of them don’t have family they’d be loath to ‘turn on’ or how many aren’t geriatrics? It’ll be close to a miracle to pull off the ‘broad white’ racial revolution; the ‘narrow’ version is the stuff of pure fantasy, to say nothing of the narrow one ‘taking back’ all of America.

    Every ethnicity on this planet recognizes as its own people who span its ‘racial range’ (eg from lightest to darkest, though there can be other traits besides pigmentation). Visual identification is often sufficient but when it isn’t verbally professed identification is. For example, Serbs and Croats are notorious for hating the living crap out of each other, but they can’t reliably visually tell the difference (though you do get loopy partisans playing up the paltry differences that exist into something of world-historical significance); they are however, perfectly content to rely on professed identity. The reason I mention this to highlight how way out of the ordinary human experience the nordicist racialist is. Yes, there was a time when they ‘were America.’ No kidding. Unfortunately, that doesn’t offer much of a guide as to the way forward today. And, dude, seriously, if Thomas Bertonneau isn’t a white man in today’s America (or any America of any earlier period, for that matter), well, congratulations, I’d say you’ve accomplished more than any anti could ever dream of. (There’s good reason to suspect that is what has kept Joe Sobran from ever declaring himself a WN, despite being very popular among them.)

    Incidentally, this is why I consider my ‘buy-in’ plan superior to Matt Parrot’s ‘3D’ plan — deception, deletion and distortion, which when you get down to it is what it is. My buy-in plan settles all the important points of contention; it’s only a question of how many will, well, buy into it.

  32. Here is an article from a white woman with a baby by and Indian (Asian) man, who is able to talk about the problem somewhat honestly (I don’t believe an American newspaper would publish anything like this.)

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-467787/I-love-mixed-race-baby–does-feel-alien.html

    Evolution demands that we have children to pass on our genes, hence the sense of pride and validation we get when we see our features reappearing in the next generation.

    With my daughter, I don’t have that. Do black fathers who marry white women and then have paler-skinned children feel my sense of loss? Or maybe Chinese mothers or Middle-Eastern grandparents grieve when they see a child they know to be their own, but whose features don’t reflect that?

    But it is more than that. I am frightened, frightened of others’ reactions to her, as well as my own. I didn’t think of myself as racist and yet my daughter has shown me a side of myself about which I feel deeply uncomfortable.

    Even admitting to having mixed feelings about her not being blonde and blue eyed, I feel disloyal and incredibly guilty.

    I know the obvious comment is that I must have known how a child of our union would look when I married an Indian man, but it is a wise woman who thinks that far ahead when she falls in love.

    I didn’t think about any of this before I got pregnant. I wanted to have a baby. Her colour and culture were immaterial then.

    But self-flagellation is not useful. I have more pressing concerns. I am now the mother of a ‘black’ child, even if she is more the hue of weak tea than espresso.

    This is a role for which I am utterly unprepared. Part of me thinks I should be playing sitar music to her in her cot, mastering pakoras and serving them dressed in a sari, but that would be fantastically fake coming from me.

    When she was born, pale but with lots of dark hair, I asked the midwife if her eyes would stay blue. ‘Asian genes are very strong,’ she said in what I took to be an ominous tone.

    No more Brady Bunch kids for me. The midwife has been proved right and every day my baby’s eyes get a little darker.

    Even so, when she looks up at me as I feed her, my heart melts. My love may not be colour blind, but hers is, and that is truly humbling

  33. Silver,
    Could you explain your terms: “broad” “narrow” 3-D and “buy in” plans.
    I obviously missed some prevoius post somewhere.

  34. Kievsky – I applaud your invitation. I completely understand why you’ve done this.

    It’s much easier to get non-Whites to talk about racial issues, than mainstream Whites. And they = the non-Whites tend to say really interesting things.

  35. Silver,

    You should write up your plan – at least copy the comment where you explained it – and post it on your blog. Then mention it’s at your blog, too.

  36. It’s much easier to get non-Whites to talk about racial issues, than mainstream Whites. And they = the non-Whites tend to say really interesting things.

    I agree with you Ms. Denise. Strongly.

    As well, in my experiences, Blacks and other non-Whites respect us more when we genuinely speak our minds — especially how we feel about the non-PC aspects of race and ‘racism’.

  37. Silver, you seem to be advocating more of a Diablo or Goy White pan-Aryan version of white that includes considerable non-white admixture and light-skinned non-Europeans. I find the thought of that America repulsive, it does not inspire me.

    And, dude, seriously, if Thomas Bertonneau isn’t a white man in today’s America (or any America of any earlier period, for that matter), well, congratulations, I’d say you’ve accomplished more than any anti could ever dream of.

    Thomas Bertonneau’s great-grandfather was black. In traditional America he would legally not be considered white. In today’s America he is white according to you and I imagine many white nationalists here. Bizarrely, you call me the anti.

  38. Perhaps some blacks can make the argument that in a few generations of marrying whites they will pass for white and be accepted by white nationalists like Silver. So it’s all good!

  39. 47 Vercingetorix
    Or these –
    Police: Robber Returned To Ask Victim For Date – WBNS-10TV, Central Ohio’s News Leader

    Hmm… another Vercingetorix. Don’t you filter out pen names with mismatched email addresses? This could get confusing.

  40. Not all non-Whites, thank goodness, it seems are happy about miscegenation:

    Asian Inferiority Complex, Self Hate, and White worship « Your Source for Asian American Media and Arts

    Asian Inferiority Complex, Self Hate, and White worship
    -Why are White models and actors frequently used for ads in Asia?
    -Why do so many Asian women get eye enlarging surgery, dye their hair blonde, and wear blue contacts?
    -How come some Asian youth are ‘not attracted to Asians’?
    -How come if you are Caucasian or an English-speaking Asian in Asia, you are treated better everywhere you go?
    -How come some Asians get ashamed from being around ‘too many Asians’?
    -Why didn’t more Asian-Americans STAND UP after ‘Vincent Chin’?

    http://asiammedia.wordpress.com/2008/02/15/asian-inferiority-complex-self-hate-and-white-worship/

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