Mea Culpa
Dec 19th, 2009 by Hunter Wallace
Editor’s Note: I’ve been prevailed upon to tone this down. I had considered doing so. I thought I might have overreacted. In light of Jim Giles’ unhinged, batshit insane rants this morning though, screaming at the top of his lungs into his microphone, denouncing everyone on this site and beyond, I have decided not to do so.
A small sample:
“Fuck you little pussies. Fuck you intellectuals. Fuck every last one of you. You chickenshit. Where is your fucking honor. You anonymous sorry shit. Fuck you Occidental Dipshit. God damn. I feel embarrassed for having associated myself with some of these people. There is something wrong with your courage, manhood, mental stability, faith. That’s why I talk about Wyatt Earp. Legal Wyaat Earp. None of this horseshit. You don’t care enough about your own to protect them.”
- Jim Giles
Yesterday, I appeared as a guest on the Jim Giles radio show, Radio Free Mississippi. It would be an understatement to say that the interview was not what I expected. Jim Giles sent me an email, requested an interview, and I agreed to talk with him about Alex Linder, who I had been carrying on a civil but spirited debate with on Occidental Dissent and VNN Forum.
I was under the impression that this interview would be like previous ones. I thought Giles would just ask me a few questions, we would carry on some friendly banter, a few relevant points of disagreement would be addressed, and that would be the end of it. I thought my interview would be like the ones Giles had conducted with Jared Taylor, Kevin MacDonald, Elizabeth Whitcombe, Robert Campbell, Simon Darby, Arthur Kemp, Harold Covington, Soren Renner, James Bowery, Kievsky, etc. I thought (at the very worst) that my interview might be like those with Jewish anti-racists, open and avowed enemies of the movement, such as Mark Potok (SPLC) or Tim Wise.
Gosh, was I ever mistaken.
Within minutes of raising me on the phone, Giles announced that this interview would not be like previous ones. Unlike Mark Potok or Tim Wise, Jim Giles said that he was really going to grill me. He was going to “shift gears.” Okay, I think to myself: you have been a little too easy on previous guests, so that’s fine, ask me some tough questions, I am willing to answer them.
For the record, this was my first interview ever. I went on the Jim Giles show because I thought he was making a useful contribution to the movement. I thought to myself: gee, the White Nationalist movement could use a talk radio show, Giles has done a number of great interviews, I should “do the White thing” and appear as a guest to help spur along his blossoming project. I had been promoting his interviews for over a month and sending traffic to his site. Appearing as a guest on his show struck me as a logical extension of that. I had encouraged others to make appearances.
For a week or so now, I had been debating Alex Linder on various issues. I had been carrying on a friendly, collegial exchanges of views with him. This was in spite of his abusive personal attacks on Greg Johnson, a good friend of mine, and Jared Taylor, another friend of mine, not to mention his long history of attacking others in the movement. Linder was slinging mud at both of these gentlemen, whose commitment to the movement is unquestionable, but I was willing to look the other way. I tried hard - damn hard - to separate the good from the bad.
Unlike virtually everyone else in the movement, I was trying to see the best in Alex Linder. Previously, Alex had argued that White Nationalists were people who 1.) named the Jew, 2.) were explicitly racial, and 3.) who endorsed the ethnostate. For this reason, I had been calling him an “ally.”
Lately, Alex has changed his position: in his mind, everyone who doesn’t endorse genocide of the Jews is now a “paleoconservative,” not a White Nationalist. As such, they are outside the “in-group,” where Gentile ideals such as decency, civility, courtesy, honor, and morality are applicable. The paleos believe in these things … what a powerful criticism.
Dr. Kevin MacDonald is now a paleocon, Jared Taylor is a paleocon, Greg Johnson is now a paleocon, I am a paleocon, everyone who writes for TOQ Online or Occidental Observer is a paleocon. We’re all of the same point of view as Sam Francis or Pat Buchanan. In his latest posts, Linder started to gleefully entertain the possibility of destroying the TOO/TOQ community. He posted that minutes before the interview. This should have set off red sirens in my mind. It did not. Not even then.
So, I go on the Jim Giles show, and I find myself discussing genocide, or exterminating the Jews (and possibly homosexuals), with one of Linder’s bloodthirsty fans. I also found myself on the racialist equivilant of the Jerry Springer Show discussing Greg Johnson’s personal life. In the beginning of the interview, I was uncomfortable. In the middle, I was getting sick to my stomach. By the end of the interview, I was furious.
I challenge anyone to listen to this interview and say otherwise.
It has been a long time since I have experienced moral outrage. As an intellectual, I am emotionally tone deaf. That is my major weakness: feeling or empathizing with others. I tend to evaluate everyone and everything from a detached, analytical perspective. I value reason, tolerance, and openmindedness. I believe in looking at the other guy’s point of view, critically analyzing it, and letting him speak his mind. I’ve tried real hard not to be quarrelsome like I was in the past.
I had a delayed emotional reaction to what Linder was actually saying. Somewhere in the Giles interview, the magnitude of the atrocity being advocated, the hinting around that I really believe innocent people should be exterminated (like cockroaches or animals), but that I can’t say so in public … it sunk in, it finally hit me square between the eyes.
In my entire life, I have rarely felt so guilty or ashamed, or embarrassed: I had been carrying on with these people, apologizing for them, promoting them for months. I found out that I do have a moral sense. I went into the interview convinced that denouncing those to my right was a bad idea. I left the interview with the opposite point of view. It also occurred to me that I have been wrong about a lot of things.
For starters, I have been unfair to Guy White and Ian Jobling. It is clear to me now that the extreme anti-Semitism within the White Nationalist movement promoted by genocidal maniacs is a serious problem. At least in this respect, Guy White and Ian Jobling have a valid point. I’m not ready to go as far as friedrich braun has, but I am not in the least surprised by the path he has taken. Not at all.
I want nothing to do with Jim Giles or Alex Linder ever again. This will be the last post about either of them on this website. I have delinked their websites, banned their IP addresses, and added both to the comment filter. I want nothing to do with those associated with either of these men. They are free to spew their sick, disgusting, evil ideas on their own websites, but they will never again find a platform on mine.
I’m also taking a small break from blogging. I need a few days to sit down and seriously reflect upon everything else I may have been wrong about. I’ve spent way too much time on the internet lately. I’m exhausted and want to enjoy the Christmas season. I won’t touch the Jewish Question again before examining it with a moral eye. How did I become so morally broken that I was willing to engage these degenerates?
In the future, I won’t waste my talent making life easier for Jim Giles or Alex Linder to spread their hateful message … of that much I am certain. I’ve already advised others to do so as well.
Notice: This will be the last thread in which discussions of Alex Linder, Jim Giles, RFM, or VNN will be allowed. In future threads, references to any of the above will airbrushed out or deleted. We’re going to move on to more productive topics. Those who want to engage either Giles or Linder know which rocks they can be found under. I’m also locking this thread at 100 comments.
Also: I know that I will be criticized “for sounding like a leftist” and “using enemy rhetoric.” That’s fine. It is worth considering that Jim Giles and Alex Linder were able to push those buttons even in me. That is almost impossible. Giles deliberately set out to elicit an emotional reaction. He got one.
Normal people … they don’t analyze these issues like I do. They only hear a Neo-Nazi psychopath talking about murdering Jews or a Klansman from Mississippi plotting a lynching. That’s not the image White Nationalism needs to project.
Good idea, HW. I can’t say I don’t sympathize to a certain extent with the anger of Linder and Giles, but they step over the line, to the point where they lose credibility and raise serious questions in the mind of others who otherwise might be sympathetic. Their act is a turn-off to normal, sane Whites. It is possible, IMO, to name the Jew and express anger at non-White crimes without going off the deep-end, like Linder and Giles; likewise it’s possible to refrain from calling for the extermination of Jews without kissing Judeo-ass, like Goy White and Jobling.
Careful not to confuse a gut-punch from a slap across the face. One says something about an individual, the other, about a relationship.
We should all take a reprieve from our sources of info at times, to look into our own hearts.
Good luck and Merry Christmas, Mike
Their disgusting filth has caused me to raise serious questions about my own judgment and core beliefs. What the hell is wrong with me? I’ve been associating with these people for months.
So how do you propose that we deal with our Jewish enemies? Give them a good spanking and tell them not to undermine us again?
The facts of the matter haven’t changed.
This decision of yours is for the best. Their over-the-top tactics pretty much confirm that they were trying to get you to say and do things that would compromise your freedom and even your life. From my perspective it became obvious that Linder and co are very destructive to this movement and, further, that being destructive was likely Linder’s intention from the beginning. As for the others with him, they’re just along for the ride blissfully unaware that he is doing the work of our enemies.
In any case, here’s hoping that you will continue to allow intelligent discussion of all facets of the decline of our civilization.
The interview really messed with your mind and you’re losing perspective. Guy White has attacked you, lied about you and misrepresented your views and he’s now an ally. Linder, for all of his faults and failings, never attacked you like Guy White did.
If “extreme” anti-semites lack character then philo-semites like GW aren’t much better. Don’t forget that David Duke is a so called extreme anti-semite and Giles mercilessly attacks him, too.
I suspect Giles is the new Hal Turner but I have no proof at this time.
There is nothing wrong with you, HW. You’ve done nothing wrong… well, perhaps you have been too tolerant, of certain types. Seeing their effect on you, maybe you should be more discriminating? Linder has his moments and even I admit to some admiration, but Giles is a holy fool as this morning’s broadcast demonstrates. As you know, your OD project is very well-regarded in the right WN circles. OD is the vital “missing link” between conservatism and dying paleoconservatism (on the one hand), and the frothing-at-the-maw rants of Linderism. You’re doing a wonderful job. By all means take a break, but I hope you continue on this path.
Guy White and Ian Jobling have never advocated murdering people.
Hunter, I suggest you do some reading about psychopathic personality disorder and related issues like narcissism, cult leaders, con artists etc. Many of the people in “the movement” clearly have elevated level of psychopathy and narcissism. Remember that serial killers and people like Jim Jones are only the most extreme psychopaths and that the vast majority of clinical psychopaths never kill anyone. What they do is engage in subtler forms of interpersonal aggression. One of the ways they do that is by constantly provoking feuds with everyone they come in contact with. Psychopaths see every interaction with another person, no matter how trivial, as a contest for dominance. Because of this, they can never get along well with others for an extended length of time. Being nice to these people is seen as weakness and will only lead to them pushing the envelope, demanding increasing levels of submission from you.
I also hope you don’t get discouraged by this stuff. You need to have a thick skin to do what your trying to do.
I dont think you have been too hard on Guy White and Jobling. However, I do think it was a mistake to send out a olive branch to Linder. He’s very mean and destructive.
Giles on the other hand presented himself as a man who was willing to “listen to all sides.” He never presented himself as a psychopath until the past couple of days. You can’t blame yourself for not seeing through his BS. I didnt see it either.
Don’t be too hard on yourself. You have never advocated genocide on this website, ever. Your doing good work and your ideas on the Jewish question are sound. You just got a little caught up with some of the more extreme far right ideas that are not compatible with being a human being.
Good luck Hunter and well be seeing you back here after Christmas.
The main reason I am taking a break is not to have a stupid overreaction.
Quote: “Guy White and Ian Jobling have never advocated murdering people”
There is a difference between murdering people and using violence in the interests of defending your ethnic group and race.
Giles and Linder aren’t saying anything like: killing would be justified in a war of independence. They are saying that Jews should be rounded up and exterminated. Murdered. Genocide. That’s their new platform.
So what you are basically saying is that killing Jews is only alright if they have a chance to kill us as well?
ATBOTL, I’m a big fan of criminal profiling and understanding motivations of people.
It is clear to me now that the extreme anti-Semitism within the White Nationalist movement promoted by genocidal maniacs is a serious problem. At least in this respect, Guy White and Ian Jobling have a valid point.
Only if you think people like Linder and Giles are of any relevance. They’re not. I never understood why you engaged with such nobodies in the first place. You’re much better than them.
Fuck you intellectuals. Fuck every last one of you. You chickenshit. Where is your fucking honor. You anonymous sorry shit. Fuck you Occidental Dipshit.
If I were a white-hater from the ADL or NAACP I’d want someone like Giles representing WNism!
Guy White is just a liar. In fact, I believe even you posted an entry titled “Guy White, Liar” not long ago. Philo-semites don’t annoy me too much but when they lie pathologically and resort to endless name calling and cheap shots then I have a problem. It’s a real disappointment that you’ve decided to do a 180 degree turn and choose to reach out someone of dubious character like GW. The enemy (GW) of your enemy (Linder, Giles) is now your friend.
This is your blog, your business and ultimately your decision, but I needed to sound off on this.
Listen to this:
http://www.radiofreemississippi.net/audio2009/RFM-2009-12-19-RebelRant.mp3
Tune in after 1 hr and 13 minutes:
Now, after listening to this, tell me Guy White doesn’t have a point about anti-Semitic psychopaths.
I’ve accepted though, that it’s nearly impossible to convince organized Jewish groups to get over their fear of nazis and to stop displacing that fear onto other right wingers who don’t have anything against them. It’s really hard to understand race genetically, enjoy studying it, oppose the political suppression of race realism, and get religious Jews not to accuse you of being a nazi. It doesn’t help if you are opposed to liberal capitalism.
So a rejection of anti-semitism is not some expectation that Jews will call of the opposition. That’s where I’ve become less naive. It’s about not burning bridges.
The problem that you’ll have now is that because of your prior association with mental defectives and sociopaths like Linder, a lot of Linder groupies will be posting here for at least a while, before normal, decent, intelligent people (= people like you), start visiting your blog and posting. So you’ll have to endure their insanities and repulsiveness. If I were administering your blog, I’d turn off the comments section for a month. I told you that in an email. I believe that all this drama detracts from the message. Instead of you focusing on White Nationalist advocacy, you have to waste a great deal of time on stupidities and freak shows like Linder and Giles. I believe that TOO has it right by not allowing commentary. They thus control 100% of the product that they put out. I believe that Ivan, Mr. Dithers, jimbo and a few others should be completely flushed. The problem is targeted flushing and that takes time away from your more profitable pursuits. Another option to simply moderate all comments.
I’d say that anyone to the right of Stormfront’s moderation policies can be ignored and considered defective. We know for a fact that there are numerous government informants and provocateurs in “the movement.” We know from history that such people are always the ones advocating extremism and violence. The latest example being Hal Turner. The FBI doesn’t have agents penetrate radical groups to steer them into respectability. I would consider those trying to get others to agree that genocide is a good idea as potentially doing this to discredit those people.
Notice that the tactic of Linder and his followers is to try to pressure others to agree with them by direct command rather than by making a better argument. They say stuff like “just admit I’m right.” They are quick to step outside of the debate and make things personal. It’s classic dominance asserting behavior, albeit incompetently executed.
Bill White and Harold Covington are two other obviously defective people who should be shunned completely. In general, we need movement leaders have have been accomplished and successful in society apart from their racial advocacy. That’s a pretty effective way to screen out most defectives and provocateurs.
From an impartial observer who has never read anything by Hunter Wallace before today, yet has listened to Jim Giles for 1 month, this recent interview was Jim Giles worst one and Hunter Wallace did extremely well in handling it. Jim Giles is revealing something here. I am still trying to figure out who or what Jim Giles is.
I only hope Hunter Wallace does understand that the jew will never give up power without a fight involving the deaths of anyone they can put in front of themselves. You cannot change natures laws of survival. Nature’s brutality is what the “civilization illusion” seeks to hide from the masses.
Many times Hunter Wallace proclaims the importance of detached reason and logic, until these qualities must be applied to the physical world of life and death. Jewish power must be forcibly taken and this will result in death, just as doing nothing will result in death. The journey is different, even though the result is the same.
Well, Giles is very angry and irrational. His attacks on you and GJ are unwarranted and unfair, but I didn’t hear him advocate genocide of the Jews in the short segment I listened to. His rant seems to be related to the unspeakable violent crimes that have been committed against whites by blacks. I do understand Giles’ rage against these black animals, but this still doesn’t excuse his attacks on your character, especially when you agreed to an interview in good faith.
Giles’ weak moments doesn’t prove GW is some kind of righteous dude when it comes to bashing anti-semites. Sadly, you seem to lump all people who distrust and criticize Jews in with Giles and Linder. That’s your decision but really isn’t accurate. Some Jews and philo-semites have been known to preach mass murder of Muslims but that, of course, is a righteous and politically correct form of hate and never prompts the visceral reaction that it does when some white nobody urges genocide of Jews and non-whites.
For the record, I support the mass suppression of sharia law, not the mass murder of every muslim.
Hunter - I think your proposal to take a short blogging holiday is probably a good idea. Jim Giles obviously got under your skin, and if someone came up to me in person and said what Giles did, he’d be visiting a dentist the very next day at best, and an ER immediately at worst.
But have you considered that Jim Giles’ ulterior motive may have been to light a fire in your belly? Perhaps he thinks you’re too nice to those with whom you disagree, and wanted to motivate you to “pick a side”.
Nevertheless, don’t forget that Giles has also dumped on Dr. David Duke, who is everything Giles is not; witty, urbane, diplomatic, and far more successful. While Dr. Duke has written two books, it is questionable whether Giles has even read two books in his life. In addition, Dr. Duke also did something Giles has not and will never do; namely, WIN an election. Giles is insanely jealous of Dr. Duke.
Hunter,
You have already decided to remove all references to Jim Giles and Alex Linder from this site. That is a wise move. Don’t be discouraged about anything. They are anti-social defectives who need to be put in their own little cages where they can’t hurt anyone.
I remain an advocate of ‘vanguardist’ and ‘extreme’ policies regarding non-Whites and Jews but I will never call for the outright genocide of a people. In fact, I view our morality and sense of fairness as one of the key ingredients in Western civilization. I discussed this in my essay “The danger of carrying snakes.”
I still feel that Friedrich Braun is wrong about the Jews. They don’t want to help us, they don’t want to join our pro-White movement. (You have already proved that with your posts about the Jewish outcry against the minarette ban in Switzerland.)
Just because some mental defectives cook up crazy ideas doesn’t mean that White racialism is wrong or that we are wrong. The more experience I have with people the less I value the average person. Most people are vulgarians without a sense of class or decency. It isn’t about wealth or fortune but rather those peculiarly White qualities of modesty and fairness. Giles and Linder lack these qualities. In whatever ethnostate we may create in the future I would not allow such defectives to remain with us.
That’s the difference between the internet and talking to someone or meeting them, “shit gets real.”
I don’t blame you, Hunter, I don’t think anyone else does either. You’ve been overly gracious to people who didn’t deserve it and tried to bring people together for the greater good. But, as you found out, you can’t help those who won’t help themselves. Some people are just dysfunctional and incorrigible.
Taking a break to reflect and then forget it for a while is the best thing. Do what you feel is right.
“I still feel that Friedrich Braun is wrong about the Jews. They don’t want to help us, they don’t want to join our pro-White movement. (You have already proved that with your posts about the Jewish outcry against the minarette ban in Switzerland.)”
Debating the likes of Sam Davidson and other obsessive-compulisve, one-track anti-Semites is like debating my kitchen chair. No argument will convince. NO ARGUMENT WILL SUFFICE. White Nationalism in the U.S. starts and ends with anti-Semitism, and its anti-Semitism only varies in gradient and magnitude. We know that Jews do cooperate with some implicitly White Nationalist movements in Europe. Why do they do it there and not here? First, Europeans extend a genuinely friendly hand. When the B.N.P. does it they have an uphill battle because of their previous neo-Nazi positions and Holocaust-denial. However, at least some sectors of the Jewish community have been very supportive of those nationalistic parties that don’t come with the same toxic baggage. That’s all we want and ask for. We’ll never get 100% support from Jews. We’ll never get 100% from our own ethno-religious kin. I persist to see that the Right must do what it can to seem safe for Jews (in theory and practice, we’re not talking about a double-game here) and only then can we really gauge the Jewish response…and give it time. There’s a huge amount of mistrust on the part of Jews, and rightly so. This will take years to dissipate. I repeat, in the post-Holocaust, post-W.W. II era, White Nationalism will never gain any political traction while remaining wedded to anachronistic anti-Semitism. On the contrary, it will stay an irrelevant, obscure, marginal protest party of misfits and sociopaths. Basically, what it is today. It saddens me to say, but I also reject Majority Rights’ approach for the same reasons. I don’t have a model in front of me to follow, except to mix and shake Jared Taylor and Geet Wilders and come up with a winning formula. I think that such a mixture offers the only viable party for the future.
That’s Geert Wilders.
“The main reason I am taking a break is not to have a stupid overreaction.”
I think this is wise. Frankly, you have already overreacted to a certain extent, no need to paint yourself further into a corner. Keep your options open.
In the real world, nothing has changed. Our enemies still pursue the same old policies, knowing full well that these policies are leading to white destruction. Our people are still being raped, tortured, and murdered literally on a daily basis. They are still being degraded and undermined at every turn. They are still facing displacement, marginalization, and ultimate extinction. Those who stand up to this are still being fired, abused, and ruined. Depending on the country, even jailed or murdered outright.
People can quibble about calling this “genocide.” I have no such quibble: it most certainly is genocide. It is simply done in a more indirect, dishonest way. I don’t believe that genocide requires that an official order or memorandum be issued. I don’t believe that our enemy has to type out proclamations advocating our murder and dispossession, complete with wax seal and fancy calligraphy. That they knowingly pursue policies which have this effect is quite enough. Not only do they know this, they celebrate it. And in what must be a new low in perversity and chutzpah, they demand that WE celebrate it as well. We must laud, with furious applause, our own dispossession.
Good times.
Imagine, for a moment, doing this to some other nation. What if we were in a position to do this to the Japanese? We deliberately pursued policies that would lead to the ultimate extinction of the Japanese people. We deliberately pursued policies to undermine their culture, encourage their women to bed down with Africans, and covered up the dramatic rise in rape and murders of Japanese women. And when some courageous Japanese speak out against what we are doing to their people? We get them fired, we get them jailed if possible, we ruin their lives and their ability to function IN THEIR OWN SOCIETY.
This ain’t genocide? Really?
I think it is. Hell, I know it is. And once you understand that (and I think you do understand), and fully appreciate the magnitude of the evil being done to our people, you should also understand the great anger that is welling up in some of our more radical brethren. It is understandable. It is very understandable. I don’t agree with their solution, but I understand - and feel - their anger.
Now, if some of the hotheads on our side of the aisle advocate things that harm our cause, then of course one may choose to disassociate from them. This too is reasonable and understandable. If Alex becomes a net liability to a given group’s mission, fine. But to be furious with Alex, to have intense anger towards Alex, is misplaced. I am amazed at the raw and righteous anger directed at something that Alex ADVOCATES (I strongly disagree with him too, for what it is worth), while being calm and dispassionate about the murder and rape of our own people which is the daily REALITY of our present situation. I think this is telling. Dispassionate analysis as our own innocents are raped and slaughered, furious indignation at a hothead who merely advocates a violent reprisal.
Bottom line: the name of the game is to preserve our people. It’s self determination for whites. Obviously, pro-whites disagree on how to go about achieving this. At this point it seems obvious that we need to try different approaches. There is no reason why Linder can’t keep doing what he is doing, and Macdonald keep doing what he is doing, and you keep doing what you are doing. They are not mutually exclusive, they are not even inherently in conflict.
We aren’t a unified party or hierarchical organization. Rather, we are a loose constellation of individuals and groups that are, more or less, pulling in the direction of a nation for whites. Some will get along better with their neighbors than others. Some won’t be on speaking terms at all. If someone makes themselves radioactive, then fine. Why should this undermine one’s core beliefs? How does this change the facts on the ground? How does it change the magnitude of what is being done to our people? It doesn’t.
Hunter hasn’t overreacted, you need to have some empathy if that’s possible for you. If you want to hear an overreaction listen to Giles’ latest rant.
” I don’t have a model in front of me to follow, except to mix and shake Jared Taylor and Geet Wilders and come up with a winning formula. ”
I have a way forward! And it doesn’t depend upon anti-semitism or any of that business. It’s the next step:
The idea is to create a white breeder organization - a “super-society” if you will - as a necessary preliminary step before launching into creating an actual white nation or ethnostate.
The organization would explicitly define who is “white” and who isn’t. The members of the group, call them “Whitists”, elect representatives to make this determination (i.e. who gets admitted into the group and who gets expelled from the group).
The two basic rules are as follows:
1. Admission: Only persons with no descendants may petition to be admitted into the group. The earliest age at which someone can petition to join is 18. The offspring of two members is automatically a member at birth.
2. Expulsion: A member is expelled from the group if he is shown to be guilty of having a descendant who is not a member of the group.
What this means is that members must limit their procreation activities to other members of the group. In this sense the group defines a race, the “White Race.”
And to ensure Whitists are singularly loyal to the White Race, they cannot have any non-Whitist descendants.
The White Race should ultimately encompass all white people who feel it is important that their descendants stay white.
The beauty of this plan is that it doesn’t depend upon creating a white ethnostate right off the bat, with all the attendant difficulties. At some later time, perhaps, the White Race can establish states, or take over the world, or whatever.
Note that I hope the nations of Europe ultimately will become strict ethnostates, so this mainly applies to non-Europeans.
First, your statement about WN is absolutely untrue. While the JQ factors very importantly in WN circles, it is hardly the only thing. Many focus on black crime, immigration, the culture wars, and so forth. Many do not even mention Jews or mention them only sparingly.
Secondly, Jews cooperate only to a very nominal extent. To the extent that they are honest about cooperating, great! However Jews are already a tiny minority. A tiny minority of a tiny minority is hardly worthy of attention.
As we have seen before, Jews are not willing to get involved in WN unless WN’s take a very conciliatory tone. If anyone mentions Jewish media dominance or Jewish dominance in Marxism, they immediately storm out and call them Nazis. These aren’t the sort of people that we can genuinely count on. As Hunter said, the number of Jews who are genuinely on our side on racial issues would probably not even fill up an Applebees restaurant.
So why waste all the effort on them?
The only reasonable position that I think we can take is to simply consider that antisemitism, if left unchecked, attracts a lot of mentally defective people and people of low intellectual calibre.
There are a lot of legitimate issues with Jews that MUST absolutely be dealt with in the open. I do not see “making WN safe for 2-3 Jews” as being a greater goal than dealing with those who are poisoning our culture and sucking our nation’s resources dry.
Jim Giles is moving into the Hal Turner vacuum. The federal government must have needed a new WN radio show to stir up the yahoos.
Trainspotter has given some sagacious advice, HW. Do take time to reflect on it all, there are a lot of pitfalls in life, and you are just getting started in experiencing some of them. You will, in time, grow some hard bark and put past mistakes into your wisdom cache. Duke, Taylor and others have done this very well, that’s why they are still able to navigate the treacherous waters and remain effective. Stay positive, maybe even do an interview in the future with Michael C. Piper, or James Edwards on the Political Cesspool, when you regain your composure and self esteem. You were bushwhacked, pure and simple, but you’ll eventually gain strength from it.
White Nationalists need to be temperate, we need to be restrained, we need to be respectful. The debate is rarely held in that tone. And in a sense, we’ve not only lost every cultural battle, we lost the broader battle by effectively being marginalized and just basically discredited. The Linder-style of advocacy discredits us in the eyes of the people we want to reach most.
Jim Giles is moving into the Hal Turner vacuum. The federal government must have needed a new WN radio show to stir up the yahoos.
Hal Turner had genuine talent as a broadcaster and had charisma, even though he was a liar and informant. Giles is just a guy who wants to rant and thinks others want to hear it.
Mark, yet again, you tell another lie. Hunter can decide for himself the meaning of what I wrote, and it was not at all what you falsely claim. Stop misrepresenting my posts.
Traintroller, stop trolling and repeating yourself. One nonsensical post is enough.
“Secondly, Jews cooperate only to a very nominal extent. To the extent that they are honest about cooperating, great! However Jews are already a tiny minority. A tiny minority of a tiny minority is hardly worthy of attention.”
They might be a tiny minority in demographic terms only, but obviously not in terms of influence.
Your pushing for the same old, same old hostile to Jews approach that has been a staple of White Nationalist nuttery for 4 decades with the results we all know and can judge for ourselves. Your approach is a perennial loser and will remain so. I want to try to something new. I want to try a different strategy. If the objective is the furtherance of our ethnic genetic interests (a concept Linder sneers at, because it deflects from his number one priority of exterminating all Jews everywhere…that is an end in itself for Linder!), then if working together with some Jews to that end improves our survival chances and overall conditions, that’s great! Anything that will advance our ultimate interests should be attempted. That’s my bottom line.
Hunter has been very good to Jim Giles. He has promoted him here at length over the past months, praising his grassroots broadcasting efforts and writing up summaries of several interviews that Giles conducted. Both of us did his radio show, and we also urged others to consider doing it. The way that he has repaid that kindness should be noted by anyone thinking of associating with him.
Witzgall, I appreciate how, in this unfortunate situation, you keep your eyes on the prize and actually try to offer a solution to our situation. I read your posts on VNN about this, interesting stuff. By the way, your “heels” comment on another thread was friggin hilarious. Best laugh I’ve had all day, and a needed one.
Right on, Robert. The fact that all of this escapes Giles is just a testament to his incredible lack of perception and hypocrisy. He constantly talks about honor, and yet behaves very dishonorably. It’s despicable.
“The way that he has repaid that kindness should be noted by anyone thinking of associating with him.”
Agreed.
Giles could have used all that fire, passion, and moral outrage to make a plausible argument: Whites should separate from non-Whites. But no, he hitched all of that to pushing Linder’s crazy idea of exterminating the Jews, and then slammed me for refusing to go along with it.
Did Giles just become aware that crimes happen, that evil exists? Rapes, murders and the range of human depravity happens every day all over the world. No sense in having a mental breakdown over it or attacking your friends.
As I’ve said, we should make Linder a case study of what not to do. His crazed method hurts us in all kinds of ways and closes a multitude of venues to us. We all know that anti-White organizations what Linder et al. to remain visible and even prosper. His their great asset.
The problem with Linder, Giles and those like them, is that they don’t limit their attack to just their stated enemies. Because their behavior is more than a calculated move, it’s part of their personality. So if they have no conscience and can murder innocents they perceive as enemies, they can just as easily do it to you when they perceive you as a threat. We had a taste of that with Giles.
There is some logic to the idea that if Linder and crew act extreme, it protects others from criticism.
But in practice I find that’s not true. I find I’m called a nazi even though there are real nazis.
Yes, a real Tough Guy:
http://www.radiofreemississippi.net/
From: RFM mailto:jimgiles@radiofreemississippi.net
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 8:33 AM
To: ‘david.bauer@usdoj.gov’
Cc: ‘Andy_Hart@fd.org’; ‘Donna_Grill@fd.org’; ‘hannah.horsley@usdoj.gov’; ‘harold_ducloux@fd.org’
Subject: Daniel Lee Jones
Dear Mr. Bauer,
I have attached the emails that Daniel Lee Jones has sent to me. I bring this to your attention because it appears to me that he is in violation of his pretrial court order. Jones initiated contact with me proposing that I interview him but prior to the interview he told me the court had ordered him to not use the Internet and our interview was to be done via Skype which is Internet based. Jones wanted me to “not mention” the fact that we were using the Internet. I declined to interview him stating that I would not participate in an interview that violated the Court’s Order.
This morning Jones has left two telephone messages at my home, calling from 503-807-8706 according to my caller ID, stating that he has listened to my monologue on the cancelled interview with him which I posted on my website last night. Listen hear: http://www.radiofreemississippi.net/audio2009/RFM-2009-12-14-DanJones.mp3. Jones goes on in the telephone message threatening to sue me for libel.
And Mr. Hart and Ms. Grill, I request that you advise your client to not contact me again in any way whatsoever. I have nothing to say to him again, ever.
Yours Truly,
Jimmy D. Giles
Radio Free Mississippi
173 Pear Lane
Pearl, Mississippi 39208
(601) 939-2950
http://www.radiofreemississippi.net
From: Dan Jones — mailto:tenhearts1beat@msn.com
Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 1:56 AM
To: jimgiles@radiofreemississippi.net
Subject: Daniel Jones arrested by FBI
Hello Mr. Giles,
My name is Dan Jones and I am a former member of Bill White’s ANSWP.
I was arrested on October 9th of this year by the FBI for political speech. http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/10/portland_neo-nazi_indicted_for.html
I Joined Bill’s group and supported him against my better judgment because the ANSWP seemed to be the only effective white group at the time. After Bill was arrested, I ran a website (freebillwhite.com) to raise funds for his defense and personally sent financial support to his wife and daughter, Meghan and Brenna.
Now that Bill seems close to gaining his freedom, he has sent out two letters attacking me as a federal informer. Bill claims that I tried to “set up” His wife, Chris Drake and a fellow that posts on VNN that goes by the alias Robert Campbell. This was shocking to me, considering I’ve had no contact with those people for over six months and I was the only ex ANSWP member supporting Bill after his arrest.
I was arrested by the FBI but I have never cooperated with them and I’m certainly not working with law enforcement or any government agency.
I would love to be a guest on your show to tell my side of the story about my case and Bill White’s.
Sincerely,
Dan Jones
If I were a white-hater from the ADL or NAACP I’d want someone like Giles representing WNism!
Precisely what I meant in the other thread, about how cosmically wrong it is to think “the Jews” quake in their boots over ranting, violent anti-Semitism. It is to laff.
HW, “no criticism on the right” is good policy. It doesn’t mean you have to be cozy with these types. It just means you don’t go out of your way to criticize them. Best way is to make your opponents drag the criticism out of you.
WatchTheJewWiggle, explain to me why Jews took power from us without violence, but we can’t turn the tables. Do you think we’re inferior to Jews?
This thread is quickly coming to an end.
Jim Giles next guest:
John Derbyshire at 8 a.m., Monday the 21st.
You have gained an enormous amount of respect from me in your interview, and I have lost all respect for Mr. Giles. I can’t believe I defended that guy in the past. In any event, at least Mr. Giles has aroused your moral indignation, and moved you in the right direction on the Jewish question, even if you haven’t done a 180 degree turn.
This thread also serves no useful purpose. I’m closing it early. Check out the worthwhile posts by Sam and Wikitopian below.
[...] I log in today and see a link back to this blog from Prozium (who recently has gone under a new name, “Hunter [...]
Editor’s Note: I’ve reopened this thread. From this point forward, I am enforcing the rules. No abusive comments or personal attacks are allowed. This includes comments about Alex Linder and Jim Giles. Let’s avoid spreading unsubstantiated rumors and innuendo as well.
Keep the comments rational, productive, and civil. Also, I suggest we use this thread to discuss the moral implications of exterminationism.
What is considered abusive, any criticism of their character? Certainly profane tirades should be removed, which Giles regularly engages in.
I want to avoid sniping, flames, personal attacks, abusive comments, and unsubstantiated rumors. I don’t mind criticism of their character. I expect my character to be criticized. It should all be done though in a reasonable and civil way.
Well, beyond the moral argument, extermination isn’t necessary to achieve our goals.
Besides, I think the Arabs and Jews have plenty to talk about between them. Allow them to settle that dispute without our intervention and I think it would work out.
First order of business:
I’m trying to get in touch with John Derbyshire. He needs to be warned about Giles and persuaded to cancel the interview.
I agree with your general idea to have civil posts, but criticisms are often personal. So it’s nearly impossible to avoid that if criticism is allowed. Censorship then becomes merely a personal judgment, and that invites bias. I know you are doing your best though and I appreciate it.
Or, let Derbyshire go on there and see if Giles explodes, that would be something. Of course, I think despite Giles’ posturing, he only attacks those he feels can’t defend themselves. Like a predator who attacks the lone calf. Where was all of his courage and honor when interviewing our declared enemies?
BTW I emailed Giles and told him I thought his behavior was dishonorable and he owed you an apology. No response yet, I doubt I’ll get one.
The typical MR/OD poster believes:
-That Jews are implacable enemies of whites who want whites exterminated.
-That Jews aren’t white, ruling out assimilation as a desirable outcome
And they’re also anti-Zionist. What does that leave besides extermination? If I believed what most of you believe about Jews, I’d be for extermination.
I thought it was:
“fuck all the intellectuals”
So why is Giles having another intellectual on his show? Shouldn’t he be having hard ass militant types to discuss lynchings and exterminations?
There’s actually a diversity of opinion here, it’s not that simple.
People often say “the Jews,” which I think is sometimes shorthand, sometimes all inclusive, depending on the writer. The reasonable people are talking about organized Jewry, which is a different animal to the common Jew. Organized Jewry is without a doubt anti-white (name one Jewish group that is pro-white) and must be dismantled or driven out of our country.
It’s already been analyzed thoroughly that Jews are non-European, though have European admixture. Their origin is not European, neither is their language, culture and religion. You can’t call yourself a Semite and then say you’re white/European.
Some people here think Jews are white or close enough to be assimilated. I personally am concerned about racial purity and the preservation of our race, so I disagree with this stance. When our race is teetering on the brink of extinction, we should be more conscious of racial purity, not less. Otherwise who the hell cares and let’s just join Brazil.
So why is Giles having another intellectual on his show? Shouldn’t he be having hard ass militant types to discuss lynchings and exterminations?
That’s a good point.
Tough guy Giles needs to ask Derby some tough questions, like why he married an Asian and had mixed children.
Here’s my position:
1.) I think there is a definite bias in the American Jewish community against White Americans, against Western civilization, in favor of non-Whites, in favor of multiculturalism and political correctness. When this prejudice is combined with the enormous wealth, power, and influence of American Jewry, it has had a disastrous effect on the racial and cultural integrity of White America.
2.) I’m not ready to accept the view that Jews are biologically programmed to undermine White nations. I am willing to say that their inclusion in America has definitely had that effect.
3.) I think some Jews are motivated by malice and hatred of Whites. However, I don’t think this is true of most of them. The typical Jew sees promoting anti-racism, humanism, civil rights, multiculturalism and so forth as “healing the world.” They see themselves as exemplars of morality, decency, and enlightenment.
4.) I don’t think Jews are White. They are a cline between Europeans and Semites. Jews are the descendants of the ancient Hebrews with some European admixture. If I had to compare them to anyone else, it would be to the Turks. In any case, the “whiteness” of the Jews is not what I find objectionable about them.
5.) I haven’t said anywhere on this blog that Israel should be abolished. I think anti-White Jews and Zionist Jews should resettle there. I’ve criticized Israel for trying to manipulate American foreign policy, but that’s about it.
“I’m not ready to accept the view that Jews are biologically programmed to undermine White nations.”
I’m afraid the contention that the overall Jewish group dynamic when left unchecked is in its decisive impact on European peoples genodical cannot reasonably be argued with. If as our iron standard we say that the best predictor of the future is what has happened in the past - that past is truly prologue, and as far as we will ever be concerned when the condition of assuming agency in this world is affected - we have our answer.
Re Giles and Linder: We do not know at this time, however strongly we may suspect, that they have gone beyond the pale in having betrayed us unforgivably in their alleged capacity as System-controlled/directed agent provocateurs. Why do I say that and formulate it thus? Well, it is self-evident to me that such men as are Linder and Giles, assuming they are not guilty of having transgressed as is alleged and described above, are an evolved type of White man whose type was and is adaptive at the decisive moment of defense of the life of the group when it is faced with total destruction of its enemies or the total destruction of the group. I will call them the Dogs of War. Yet, as Nietzsche remarked regarding scientists/scholars as relates to philosophers, the former is seen aright as, however valuable, but a tool in the hand of the philosopher. So too the Dogs of War in the hands of Leaders. It is not prudent to give them over to be unleashed. And if they are incapable of being leashed then they are Mad Dogs, do more harm than helping, and must be put down. This is perhaps the situation Adolf Hitler was faced with in the person of his friend and once comrade Ernst Rohm. I mean that, in this instance, of course only in a figurative sense. Still, if we ever regarded them as brothers, and we still can regard them as brothers in the sense that they have not betrayed us unforgivably and utterly, then I think we are honor bound to see if they can’t be rehabilitated. If they cannot, and after our most earnest effort to so do, then we may regard them as Mad Dogs (if indeed they have not betrayed us) - and do what must be done.
If you emphasize facts, data, hypotheses, models, etc. then you make progress following the scientific method. This progress is more stable than is determining what person X thinks or really thinks. The link at my name shows links to the data at Harvard, Stanford, Berkeley and UCLA on white percentage and estimates of non-Jewish whites. Non-Jewish whites are around 20 percent at these schools. Are Jews saying that this is enough? Or they keep asking for more Asians to slice the top and more non-whites to slice the bottom by affirmative action?
What is the question? Is it, I want to find a person who I will follow and believe whatever they say? Or is it I want to find the data, test hypotheses, and build up an understanding?
The more a piece is about what X thinks and the less about hypotheses H0, H1, H2, and data sets D0, D1, D2, etc. say the more unstable your views are going to be.
If you are looking for a thought leader to follow blindly then what they say about other things matters. How they say it matters. If you are trying to see what hypotheses work better and what we should do with limited time and resources to avert disaster, then the facts, data, hypotheses, etc. matter.
This often means restating the same data and hypotheses over again with slightly different twists to build a coherent whole. This may seem boring to write and read. But its how real science gets done. If you are trying to build the best possible proof for a hypotheses then you will have to work with the same data and materials to try to improve it a little bit. Over time this builds progress.
I, not so long ago, went over essentially, if not precisely, just this issue with GW. The context was the remarks of, I think it was Herbert Marcuse if memory serves, on the thoughts of Carl Schmidt regarding action in moments of sheer exigency, a moment in which, due to a full understanding of natural right per the agents being, he acts with necessary complete decisiveness. In short Schmidt’s Decisionism, or at least my admittedly unstudied understanding of it. GW convinced me that for some Jews, at some level, they act knowingly in just the manner described above per their full understanding of their nature, and in accordance with their nature. For example, hypothetically, and I now believe in actuality, the Frankfurt School Jews. In such a moment the Jew sees himself and his people as quantitatively and qualitatively superior and with the attendant right to rule the goyim, and if the goyim proves inuseful to the Jew in his disobedience, and/or too threatening his latent intractability, then the Jew is necessarily bound to destroy the goyim in question. The mission of Jewish messianism must be completed in this world, and if it be necessary, then Amalek must be destroyed.
I thought that myself previously, they’re rabid dogs, and there’s only one thing you can do with rabid dogs.
Maybe we should have a discussion or two about the First Amendment.
I’m listening to my interview. In the second half, I think I did quite well. I definitely need to lose that thick accent. I also needed to speak with more force and passion.
Mr. Linder has learned how to manipulate the framing of debate and did so in his discussions with Jim Giles, setting up a time bomb prepared to go off at the next person who appears to be equivocating on the Jewish Question. Enter Hunter Wallace, clutching his notepad of relevant issues he believes he’s going to discuss.
In the immediate situation, we have to see past the dichotomy. If we allow ourselves to be silenced on the problem of Jewish influence by Linder’s erroneous and artificial dichotomy between whether Whites or Jews should be rounded up, we’re playing by his rules. The end game is one in which the entire White Advocacy movement is a barren wasteland with one man left standing.
For example, why is it that they always take the high ground on action, like we’re the ones who are all talk? I hosted a rally with 30 people just a few weeks ago and am actively lobbying state representatives. There’s no evidence that either Giles or Linder have actually done anything in years. This is good thing, given the type of action they condone.
In the long run, we need to become more adept at detecting and neutralizing attempts to master discourse. We also need to learn how to help others deconstruct it. The majority of Americans are literally drowning in these. Look at the GOP vs. DNC. Do you support multinational corporations sucking every worker and resource dry and endless imperial warfare or do you support a borderless and amoral dystopia of aggrieved aliens bleeding our people dry? Blacks: own them or marry them?
Our opponents are masters at this, on both sides. And it’s killing us. Just look at how seriously Jews take this stuff:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/206021
That’s how serious it is.
Here is the major issue that we need to address: does blogging about the Jewish Question, that is, drawing attention to the issue, is that aiding and abetting the exterminationist anti-Semites? Are we making their job easier? Are we making people more receptive to the idea of killing Jews and non-Whites? What are the moral implications of that?
“If you emphasize facts, data, hypotheses, models, etc. then you make progress following the scientific method.”
Yet only progress towards a fuller understanding of what is, which is separate, barring some definitive synthesis, of what ought to be. Just because God told Abraham to kill Isaac doesn’t necessarily mean that Abraham should have done as commanded.
“This progress is more stable than is determining what person X thinks or really thinks.”
Yet is undoubtedly useful to determine what a man thinks, and with greater urgency to that end proportional to the man-in-question’s decisive impact upon good and ends held in common. This is largely what Tanstaafl does on his blog, with great finesse it must be said, and correspondingly with great utility - I assume you yourself affirm that in that you comment on his blog and clearly (at least to my eye) have great respect for the man; as do I, as do most of us.
You may have overlooked (or not been aware) that Giles and Linder have been likened to (as well as described as being) FBI agents-provocateurs, along Hal Turner lines. In other words, they are around to “set up” people, such as yourself (or, in your case, drive you away from the cause to which you are devoted and which needs your support). Of course, they could also be Bill White types, with “personality disorders” or both (most likely the latter).
The test is to cull the crackpots, even though you are tempted to ratify some of the rhetoric they use, without examining the source, which, in the case of Linder and Giles, is to endorse criminality, make the right seem like morons and, ultimately, employ COINTELPRO disinformation tactics. Why some, like yourself, get stuck in such flypaper is beyond me, but here’s hoping you can pull out, as you seem to be thankfully trying to do.
Just don’t throw the baby out with the bath-water, so to speak. Giles and Linder are no more for the “white” cause than Frank Colin was “anti-Semitic.” By the way, Giles ran for office and received .006% of the vote.
“Here is the major issue that we need to address: does blogging about the Jewish Question, that is, drawing attention to the issue, is that aiding and abetting the exterminationist anti-Semites?”
You have taken the words from my mouth. And of course the answer to that question is ‘yes’ and ‘no’. How so? As alluded to by Old Atlantic above, the best way to find the answers to that question is an empirical search consistent with the scientific method - though that cannot ultimately decide for us how to act on our understanding of what is, as I allude to above. Consistent with that, it is my belief that such a search would lead to a probability spectrum of likely outcomes for individuals consistent with their temperament, and with the added variable of involved individuals in the greater group context/dynamic. I think it is safe to say that the ultimate actions taken against Jews as a group by Whites as a group would come down to the intra-White group struggle for power over the White group dynamic - it would depend upon who has the power, who wins that power.
77Hunter Wallace
Here is the major issue that we need to address: does blogging about the Jewish Question, that is, drawing attention to the issue, is that aiding and abetting the exterminationist anti-Semites? Are we making their job easier? Are we making people more receptive to the idea of killing Jews and non-Whites? What are the moral implications of that?
I think addressing the Jewish Question in a responsible and reasonable manner while denouncing their views is more productive than ignoring it altogether. Coddling the lunatic fringe, winking at them, apologizing for them, defending them, ridiculously proposing alternative methods of genocide and pretending it’s rational and you’re innocent, is not what we should do. David Duke’s approach is reasonable and rational.
I personally cannot tolerate hypocrisy and putting anyone above criticism, even my own. That level of nepotism, which Jews so often display, is not in me. Neither is the servility and sycophancy of conservatives like Derbyshire.
HW, the question you’re putting forth is the one that Jews and anti-whites rely on. You shouldn’t be pro-white, because that leads to oppression and extermination, like the Holocaust. I reject that premise.
I already have the rough outlines of an answer. I will write an essay about the matter and post it on my other blog.
I think one thing is clear, the lunatic fringe on the Right benefits the Left. As much as we don’t want to admit it, Wise is right about that. You went from Anti-Semitica to giving Guy White a big shalom hug. The Left could have never made you do that.
Agreed.
It is worth noting though that I haven’t overreacted. I decided to take a break for a few days and calm down. I waited 24 hours before responding to Giles.
In 2004/2005, I allowed Neo-Nazis at VNN Forum to push me over the edge. I became an FDR apologist and supporter of the Allied war effort. I started downplaying the Jewish Question and emphasizing other angles of White racial decline.
I’ve modified my view of Guy White. I can see now that a lot of what he says is a needed corrective to people like Giles and Linder.
No decision can be arrived at without first having decided upon ultimate interests. If, as is my standard, our ultimate interest lies the survival of the group as such, then, to paraphrase very closely GW, ‘ we will do whatever we must to remain forever ourselves.’ If that be our ultimate standard, and not ‘honor’ (assuming our ‘honor’ is not the standard of the SS - ‘My loyalty is my honor.’), then, at the last, if ‘it’ must be done, then we (those effectively acting on behalf of the group) will do ‘it’. And I hasten to add I emphatically belief that ‘it’ will most probably not be necessary.
Also interesting to note that those hypothetically tasked with seeing ‘it’ through as their solemn duty, though they may be men strongly characterized as men of ‘honor’ in the traditional sense, they would then have martyred their ‘honor’ for each other, for themselves, and indeed for us all.
Addendum: In MacDonald’s book Separation and Its Discontents MacDonald speculates that for some Jews in certainly extreme circumstances, martyrdom may have been the only psychologically available option. He has by my lights distanced himself from that bit of speculation recently. I think that is a mistake. There are clearly such instances of martyrdom, for Jews and for gentiles. And, if as is so evident on the face of it, that action would be unadaptive, and yet we know that it is there(!), we can safely assume, in my opinion, that martyrdom is in some way adaptive. For example, the Founding Fathers, who ‘pledged their sacred honor and their fortunes’ in the gambit to gain victory for their perceived ingroup though the safe bet at the maximization of their own interests was with continued cooperation with the British Crown. For at least some of the Founding Fathers I believe anything less than risking martyrdom was not a psychologically available option.
I never thought you did overreact, others did. Because they are more concerned with defending the lunatic fringe.
I think you were moderate and reserved in your reaction. Certainly Giles, Linder and those like him wouldn’t have held back.
You were verbally assaulted, and it was especially jarring as it was unexpected and undeserved. Giles was completely out of line, but isn’t man enough to admit it.
You are seeking a better synthesis to help our people, you’ll get there. Finding the right formula takes time.
Hunter,
Thanks for including our blog: http://thesylvans.blogspot.com/ in your blog roll. We are honored. The discussion of “the Jewish question” is an emotional minefield, and made deliberately so. Your position on the issue thus far has been even handed and spot on.
Don’t get too flustered with the fact that so many in this realm are keen to shred oneanother to pieces. It happens so often and is more depressing than I can express. Shake it off, brother.
-Andy
85Hunter Wallace
I’ve modified my view of Guy White. I can see now that a lot of what he says is a needed corrective to people like Giles and Linder.
Linder and Giles make Guy White look good, now that’s a feat. Of course they will respond it’s only because we’re weak and not man enough to handle them. No, it’s because we’re sane.
The direction you were moving in before the Linder debates was exactly the right one. After your meetup, you had some big plans that you were pushing and some really good ideas. I support them 100%.
Some people came along and began to sidetrack you. I wonder why….
“In 2004/2005, I allowed Neo-Nazis at VNN Forum to push me over the edge. I became an FDR apologist and supporter of the Allied war effort. I started downplaying the Jewish Question and emphasizing other angles of White racial decline.”
It is my opinion that you went too far in that direction. Your implicitly confessed role is one of shedding light via the intellect on the state of affairs that affects our people, mostly that is, with perhaps a bit of leadership via prescription thrown in, but mostly the former. There very obviously must be more to leadership in its fullest sense as to the goal of delivering our people.
“I’ve modified my view of Guy White. I can see now that a lot of what he says is a needed corrective to people like Giles and Linder.”
You must come to a decisive understanding of just what your role is. You know and I know damn well that Guy White and Ian Jobling are actively engaged in a process of obfuscation to conceal what is the whole truth for whatever reason. What are you, and what do you really have the ability to be, a Leader who rightly takes the decision upon his shoulders to aid White and Jobling in their process of obfuscation as a hypothetical counterbalance to a hypothetical potentially building inertia in our movement and people towards extermination of the Jews? If so, then know, your knees can never buckle, and/or be seen to buckle; nor can you then any longer claim to have full faith in the goodness, the ‘honor’ of our people at the decisive moment - though you may be able to convince for propaganda purposes the more suggestible of our brethren of the latter.
The above is perhaps harsh, perhaps hard to swallow, yet it is manifestly the truth - as I see it. I don’t envy you your choice, I would not want the responsibility. May the wind be at your back in making your decision.
Bill White has been taken out for the next two decades or so. Perhaps Linder is next. Their disappearance would be a positive thing for White prospects. Hence, Obama’s America would be inadvertently doing us a favor.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2009/12/18/Neo-Nazi-convicted-in-Virginia/UPI-15781261182918/
Hunter,
I listened to your interview with RFM until Jim’s “hard guy” act got too much for me. So I didn’t listent to talk much of it.
He has twice requested an interview with me, to which I have not assented. I can’t help but wonder how I would have made out in your shoes.
“How tall are you?”
“A little over 6ft. Why?”
“Do you have broad shoulders?”
“I, er …”
“What do you weigh?”
“200 lbs. Why?”
“Can you whup 98% of the guys out there?”
“Pardon?”
“Whup ‘em … you know.”
“Erm …”
“Beat the shit right outa them like I can.”
Well … I, er, spent 25 years six-repping 400 lbs dead in a weight room. Does that count?”
“Hell no. Ever done a lynchin?”
“In Lewes?”
There are some astute observations on this thread about how to take extremism and idiocy in the movement. I can’t add anything to them, but I will I add this. In England during the sixties, seventies and eighties the nationalist right was a street movement with a palpably National Socialist demeanour. It did not have anything useful to say about what I might call creative philosophy and politics. But it’s analysis of the Jewish Question, of race, of nation, and of liberalism have proven to be 100% correct. The extremes are our extremes because their analysis and ours is the same, and it is correct. Creative thought, however, cannot arise from their quarter - that is our prerogative and we need to be clearer in telling them so.
Of course, it would help if there was some creative thinking going on. At least the boots-on-the-ground boys would understand that “intellectuals” are essential to the process and, indeed, their work comes at the very beginning of it. In other words, don’t blame these guys for their impatience. They are impatient with you and I.
Last point - and a special plea. Do you think you folk could give this Guy White individual a soubriquet other than GW? Both he and I are referred to on those thread by those two letters. Well, shit - my handle is longer than his, and I got here first!!
Good luck, Hunter.
GW,
If you are interested, I am willing to appear as a guest on MR Radio. I think a discussion between the two of us (re: philosophy and strategy) could prove far more productive.
coldequation
The typical MR/OD poster believes:
-That Jews are implacable enemies of whites who want whites exterminated.
-That Jews aren’t white, ruling out assimilation as a desirable outcome
And they’re also anti-Zionist. What does that leave besides extermination? If I believed what most of you believe about Jews, I’d be for extermination.
If every jew in the United States moved to Israel I’d be a bigger Zionist than Joseph Lieberman.
Expelling jews and banning them from owning any culturally vital corporation or institution would be enough to save our race. Once the jews were gone our other racial problems could be dealt with in a few years.
Once the jews were gone our other racial problems could be dealt with in a few years.
I’m convinced it will take a civil war with or without them.
Hunter Wallace
3.) I think some Jews are motivated by malice and hatred of Whites. However, I don’t think this is true of most of them. The typical Jew sees promoting anti-racism, humanism, civil rights, multiculturalism and so forth as “healing the world.” They see themselves as exemplars of morality, decency, and enlightenment.
Ordinary jews regard whites the way they regard all gentiles, as moral and spiritual inferiors tolerated only to the extent that they can be of use to jews. The ideal non-jew is a powerless slave to the jews. The non-practicing jews don’t have the spiritual belief that non-jews are essentially animals, but they look on non-jews the way we look on blacks, as an inferior breed of person.
As GW hinted at above (?), and in answer to Old Atlantic, given that our ultimate interest is in the survival of our race at all cost, and given that at the decisive moment the most effective way to achieve the former would be the empowerment of the best, most capable man available as Leader vested with absolute, final authority, then the Fuhrer Principle is vindicated.
WatchTheJewWiggle, explain to me why Jews took power from us without violence, but we can’t turn the tables. Do you think we’re inferior to Jews? (”Svigor”)
I hope to hear from WTJW on the point.
I’ll state my present position - one that is subject to change if I am convinced to the contrary - as being that our role is bringing brightest light and greatest clarity to our people in this the nearing hour of their doom. That very may well be somewhat inconsistent, or even wholly inconsistent from the practical approach of ‘doing politics’; I err on the side of the former. I also err on the side of incrementalism as to practically elevating our people to racial consciousness. But elevate we must, and those that at the moment of truth hinder us in that are our enemies, the enemies of our people - make no mistake. So too we must begin at some point to put counter pressure to our enemies, I mean the Jews, I mean those that by intent or in effect do the Jews bidding. At this time, and consistent with what I believe to me our proper role, those that by intent or in effect carry water for the Jews, if I had to say what they would be, one way or the other, friend or foe, I say foe.
Our foes must be opposed.
“I hope to hear from WTJW on the point.”
NN, what’s that you said about my “middling” ability now? Sorry, I just couldn’t resist, and intend to offence.
I’ve also come to believe that an association with Majority Rights is a grave mistake. The difference between Alex Linder and Guessedworker is one of accent and smoothness, not of fundamental objection to anything, as his apologia of U.K. Nazi thuggery clearly indicates.
Guessedworker is an Nazi in silk stockings. Never mind his protestations to the contrary. Look at his body of work over the years and it all points to authoritarian racialism coupled with virulent anti-Semitism. If you think that’s a winning formula in our post-modern times, God bless…Don’t get seduced by his heavy verbiage about the need of a new philosophy or creativity or new paradigm or whatever the “mot du jour” happens to be. He has had over 5 years to produce it, the fact that he keeps talking about it tells me that it’s just smoke and mirrors. I guess the eternal pursuit of the ever elusive philosopher’s stone keeps his little project going. Scratch the surface or dig down, and you’ll discover a variant of National Socialism.
…given that our ultimate interest is in the survival of our race at all cost, and given that at the decisive moment the most effective way to achieve the former would be the empowerment of the best, most capable man available as Leader vested with absolute, final authority, then the Fuhrer Principle is vindicated. (Cc)
Seems to be a firm syllogistic restatement of the Principle.
Any derivative ideas as to who is going to do the “vesting,” and have you any candidates for the vestors to consider?
Fascism was cool until Hitler ruined it. Stalin and FDR did the right thing imo. They had flawed views of the world but did the sensible thing to stop Hitler.
“I hope to hear from WTJW on the point.” (NN)
NN, what’s that you said about my “middling” ability now? Sorry, I just couldn’t resist, and intend [no?] offence. (Cc)
Captain, you will need to recreate the background of these remarks such that my wish and your comment, above, will somehow be connected in my mind as they evidently are in yours.
I further hope that I will thus be afforded the opportunity, in the Spirit of the Season, to legitimately vindicate you in regard to some matter that reflects upon your intellect as enhanced beyond my expectations of it.
Merry Christmas,
NN
If our goal is to persuade others we have to consider how that happens. Some people are persuaded by authority. Those people are going to follow Harvard, the government, CNN, etc. Some people are open to data, models, hypotheses, etc. Those people we can persuade by using data, models, hypotheses.
But if our discourse is about what X thinks Y said, then we miss our chance to persuade. We are busy deciding that instead of trying to gather together the data, compare hypotheses, and develop better ways to express what we do have.
Its a published theorem with a name, Wright Island Model, that immigration causes genetic replacement. So this is the argument from authority that makes our point. Yet no one else repeats it with rare exceptions like Nation of Cowards blog.
We should make the establishment have to admit that immigration is genocide as a math theorem.
Genetics. 1979 January; 91(1): 163–176.
The Island Model with Stochastic Migration
Thomas Nagylaki
Department of Biophysics and Theoretical Biology, The University of Chicago, 920 East 58th Street, Chicago, Illinois 60637
“We investigated various cases of the island model with stochastic migration. If the population is infinite, the immigrants have a fixed gene frequency and the alleles are neutral, the gene frequency on the island converges to that of the immigrants.”
You can find the link to the article at nih.gov at the link at my name. So this is authoritative science on the government’s web page saying immigration causes race replacement. Its not enough to say immigration is genocide if you want to persuade the wider world. This theorem on the government web page should be used over and over. Those who continue to push immigration are pushing genocide. That point comes with authority by quoting the theorem.
We need to find all of this we can and build our message on that. Not on what X thinks Y said.
I think an “ethnostate” for American white nationalists is not in the cards in the forseeable future.
The South was attacked by the North in the civil war for simply wanting to be left alone, there’s no way we would be allowed to create an independent ethnostate without a fight.
I have been mentioning a prerequisite for an ethnostate, namely an international organization specifically for whites who believe it is important to preserve their “whiteness”.
This group of whites would pledge not to procreate with non-whites, only to procreate with their fellow white members. If they do procreate outside the group they are kicked out.
Such a group would, I believe, become sufficiently close-knit and tribal-like that they would be willing to give their lives to create a geographical nation-state if they felt the need.
“Any derivative ideas as to who is going to do the “vesting,””
Those that believe to the core of their being that the man in question is their Fuhrer, will lead them to victory, and therefore swear their unflagging obedience to him, in all things, if he asks it of them.
“and have you any candidates for the vestors to consider?”
If I were convinced that a particular man were up to the job I would give him my sword. Other than that, no candidates come immediately to mind. David Duke? Yeah…sure (sarcasm).
“They had flawed views of the world but did the sensible thing to stop Hitler.”
Of course you would say that, Iceman, as your loyalty to those of European descent is conditional. Tell me otherwise and I won’t believe you.
Here’s my response to your position. Just to compare.
They are scared shitless.
I agree. Human beings program themselves. You have smart people and dumb people, but people don’t become programmed with an ideology. People who question the world become philosophers and the rest because slaves.
It’s a grievance. It’s unfair, but I understand it. The other ones are just naive.
Eurasia is one continent. Internal to the Caucasoid race, Phenotypes are determined by climate and sexual selection more than ancestry. It’s fair to say that Jews are more recently linked to the middle east, but I think you underestimate how tightly the Caucasoid race is linked. The fact that Saudis may have negroid features doesn’t undermine this point.
I salute Israel for exposing how crazy Muslims are. It may be imperialism but it has proven that there is a real threat.
I’m laughing at my spelling.
[...] Wallace / Prozium made a comment that motivated me to compare my own position. The Link Here is a comparison, just for people who enjoy comparing and contrasting. 1.) I think there is a [...]
“I salute Israel for exposing how crazy Muslims are.”
I relish at every opportunity which avails itself to point out to those that wish to engender in my race extended-phenotypedom that if they were willing to pursue a policy of fighting the “war on terror” commensurate with their rhetoric that they would unflaggingly support total repatriation of all Muslims from Western lands. Of course they never would as they realize it could very well be their asses which would be next. I recently pointed out just about that point to a particularly verbose and intellectually self regarding blogger who calls himself “Hesperado”. His response? In the current political climate it is more permissible to criticize Muslims than Jews. LOL! Damn those verbose little worms are easy pickin’.
Message to Jews: Shape up or be prepared to be shipped out.
I’ve been away for a few days, but I think I have finally caught up a bit on the whole brouhaha that has occurred in regards to Giles, Linder, etc. after reading a few of the recent posts and a lot of the comments here.
Hunter — I’m not sure why you agreed to be interviewed by Giles if you are an inexperienced interviewee, as you admitted yourself that this was your very first interview. You ought to have been interviewed by Majority Rights Radio, Voice of Reason Radio, or another group like that before agreeing to be interviewed by that ‘mad dog’ Giles. No use crying over spilled milk though, just put the bad experience behind you and move on, definitely take a break from blogging and internet surfing if you need to: many people could stand to do more of that.
And there is no need to reconsider the ‘morality’ of anti-Semitism just because a few loud-mouth kooks get their attention-seeking kicks by calling for the wholesale genocide of Jewry (or others), because history and science are on our side in regards to exposing and combating the termitic Jewish plague. You ought not cave in to simpering philo-Semites like Goy Weiss and Ian ‘The Dissimulator’ Jobling just to get back at a couple frothing-at-the-mouth genocidalists like Linder and Giles, that isn’t a good strategy. Just spell out your ideas in a rational and reasoned manner (as you have been doing) and let your readers decide for themselves.
Who knows what the hell has happened to Giles lately, he seems to be becoming more and more unhinged in his last few interviews. Where did this guy come from anyways, somewhere out of left field? Seems like he came out of nowhere, just showed up and started getting all these interviews out of the blue — in the future people ought to screen these interviewers better to make sure they don’t ‘pull a Giles’ or ‘turn in to a Turner,’ better to stick to more established and better-known people in the movement rather than these bizarre outliers like Giles and/or rats like Turner. Maybe setting up a more reliable ‘Occidental Radio’ might be in order sometime in the future?
Anyhow, I don’t understand why Giles was much more polite and forgiving to people like Potok and Wise as opposed to someone like you who is ostensibly working on the same side as him…what the hell is this guy thinking? As I’ve said before, this incessant infighting has got to cease — we need to be ceaselessly attacking our enemies rather than tearing each other apart.
And Braun, what the hell are you talking about, discontinuing the comments here on Occidental Dissent? What a moronic thing to say, as it means closing down one of the best gathering points for pro-White thought and commentary on the entire web.
This is the problem inherent in pure racial materialism - the view that (alleged) genetic closeness is sufficent enough to define inclusion.
Are Jews in their current form culturally acceptable? Definitely not.
Nitpick: Muslims are acting out against the Israeli occupation of their lands and their actions are motivated by that. They aren’t acting out randomly. Their grievances are real and definite. I don’t think it is crazy for them do be doing what they are doing, given the situation.
This view isn’t, by the way, a moral condemnation of Israel but rather just a realistic view of geopolitics.
That’s not my view at all. It’s my view that political alliances aren’t based on race. If you read Jobling’s latest article, I agree with it.
There’s no reason why Lebanonese and Syrians can’t hate each other.
Giles needs to rename his show Deliverance Radio, “Boy, I’m gonna make you squeal like a pig!”
The problem is that Jews fear all Christian White European Gentiles who are not enslaved by Christianity or a Noahide view of the world, whereas Serbs may hate Croats but not with the same irrational obsession. Turks may hate Armenians.
If Jews limited their hate to Germans, Romanians and Croats, it would make sense.
“And Braun, what the hell are you talking about, discontinuing the comments here on Occidental Dissent? What a moronic thing to say, as it means closing down one of the best gathering points for pro-White thought and commentary on the entire web.”
It’s called adding by subtracting. Kevin MacDonald and T.O.O. crew figured that one out. It’s safe to say that this place would profit without your input, for example. It’s called controlling the message. Right now, H.W. wastes a great of time managing the comments section’s drama while he could spend that time in peace and far more advantageously. 90% of what gets posted here comes from assorted mental defectives and teenagers and he inevitably gets tarred with the same brush. It’s beyond worthless, it’s counterproductive. But above else it distracts from his product and is an immense timewaster. I think he should at least try it for a period. At the very least, he could moderate all comments. However, since H.W. enjoys debating too much (even after all those years of cyberspace activism!), things are unlikely to change. By the way, H.W. could still debate by cross-linking to other Web sites or opinion pieces.
The advantage of the Wright Island Model is that it makes the Jewish community or liberals or whomever have to acknowledge they are advocating genocide of whites. It leaves no room. So then as victim of the genocide we are entitled to ask them to change, i.e. give up genociding us, or we want separation.
The theorem undermines their credibility to call us racist for wanting separation. Its obvious that the victim of genocide has the right to say it wants separation from the genocider or a party advocating their genocide. This also distinguishes the current situation from the Civil War, where whites in the North defeated whites in the South. The theorem makes Northern Whites acknowledge they are genocided too.
Moreover, the theorem lets us say to Jews, if you promise not to genocide us with immigration we don’t trust you based on your extreme statements already made by your groups and leaders for it. As the victim of a genocide in progress, we have the moral right to say we don’t trust the promise of a group advocating it.
That non-Jewish whites are 20 percent of undergrads at Harvard, Stanford, UCLA and Berkeley shows the genocide is well under way. So we can point to that and say we are entitled to separation now.
Building a case based on theorems and data is what is persuasive. This means working on those over and over to improve them. That is how we can persuade others. This needs to be the main direction of our work, not arguments over whether X is right in what X thinks Y said.
Iceman:”I salute Israel for exposing how crazy Muslims are. It may be imperialism but it has proven that there is a real threat.”
Jews and Arabs/Semites are made for each other, being literally of the same ethno-racial blood substance. Jews cannot get away with as much unavenged mayhem and criminality in their native habitat of the Levant because their fellow Arabs/Semites keep them more in check there so to speak, as Jews are not an ‘invasive species’ there because Jewish genetics and ethno-culture obviously follow a Near Eastern/Arabish pattern since that is the region and genesis-point of their ethnic stock.
I’ve written before about how one of the main reasons Jews are so successful in The West is that we Westerners have yet to evolve the necessary socio-evolutionary defenses against them, i.e. they are an ‘invasive species’ in to The West and because of that Jewry has managed to grow uncontrollably here and choke out many Western natives with their Near Eastern foreigness — Western “anti-Semitism” is, in fact, a healthy and naturally evolved response to Jewish infiltration and virulence in The West. As I wrote on this topic a while back:
Braun — “Kevin MacDonald and T.O.O. crew figured that one out.”
Yeah, I guess that’s why they recently started The Occidental Observer Blog, which reproduces many OO and OQ articles and already has many readers and commenters - http://theoccidentalobserver.net/tooblog/
And why do you try to turn every comment in to a personal attack, Braun? You need to learn some manners ya internet tuff-guy.
Hunter — I’m not sure why you agreed to be interviewed by Giles if you are an inexperienced interviewee, as you admitted yourself that this was your very first interview.
Because he thought there was a rapport, an understanding. None of us imagined Giles would have a meltdown and strong-arm Hunter.
What not to do:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-nazis20-2009dec20,0,7245622.story
Note what these neo-Nazis have accomplished: the coming together of Jews, Muslims, and Christians in unity and diversity. Precisely the opposite, one supposes, of what the neo-Nazi imbeciles wanted.
I seriously think these people are just trying to shock the world. If I wanted to enjoy myself and disturb my peers, I would do the same thing.
Considering that the world as we know it is under major threats - religious, cultural, racial, eugenic - I think shocking people by dressing up in a neo-nazi costume is underestimating the seriousness of the situation we are in.
Friedrich Braun is right in his conclusion that the White Nationalist tree needs to be pruned. A clear line in the sand needs to be drawn. The exterminationists must be shorn off and cast into the fire.
Note: I don’t agree with his characterization of GuessedWorker though.
Giles on the other hand presented himself as a man who was willing to “listen to all sides.” He never presented himself as a psychopath until the past couple of days. You can’t blame yourself for not seeing through his BS. I didnt see it either.
He’s shown this side before. I believe it was during his Congressional campaign that he vented a similar degree of rage.
If you don’t adhere to the Single Jewish Cause or want to exterminate the Jews, you’re not simply a “paleoconservative”, you’re a “career girl” in Linder’s estimate. We should all follow his luminous example of chronic unemployability, welfarism, marginalization, and pariah status. That way we can really save the White race and accomplish great things! Let’s look at all the magnificent things Linder has accomplished…after White, Linder is the next in line for a 20-year-sentence getting buttfucked by LeRoy Brown.
See how he obsessively wants to out you:
http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=105291
This guy is not only toxic, he’s a deadly enemy.
Alex Linder = Richard Warman.
He’s right about the rumors and flames. We’re going to cut that out. I can’t sympathize with his complaints about character assassination. Pot. Kettle. Black.
“The conclusion cannot be drawn from the evidence.”
Linder really is a good provoker. This type of bullying reminds me of the Italian Mafia and Crips and Bloods.
You will come around on Guessedworker, as well, H.W. His approach is anachronistic in today’s post-modern politics. He’s fighting the last war while a new one is raging.
The difference between Alex Linder and Guessedworker is one of style and not substance. If you doubt it, I suggest you listen to his softball, fawning interview with Linder. To Guessedworker’s credit, he doesn’t push for the extermination of Jews, only for their expulsion. Do you think that this is a winning political formula in the post-Holocaust, post-W.W. II West while the problems facing us - apart from the radical change in the political and philosophical landscape - are wholly different than the ones at the beginning of the 20th century?
I will address that topic in my essay.
I don’t want to have anything to do with Majority Rights either.
Hopefully this blog won’t turn into another Jew-loving AMREN. That would be sad.
Giles and Linder are independent operators and I’m still baffled that HW feels like an enabler to them so much so that he’s considering dropping the Jewish Question altogether. There’s no reason to shy away from the topic based on the words and actions of a couple of individuals.
I’ve had a little more time to digest the events of the last two days and I believe the whole interview was a set up with bad intentions from the start. I never would have expected that and obviously neither did HW. Given Giles’ “aw shucks” and semi-retarded comportment in previous interviews I would have had my guard down like HW.
But what I find most troubling is HW’s reaction. The mention of Jewish genocide struck a raw nerve with him but Susan Sontag with her “The white race is the cancer of human history” was much ado about nothing. Since cancer is usually cut out or burned the implication, at least to these ears, was that whites are villains who must be removed. Keep in mind Susan Sontag wasn’t some obscure person with a website she was a very prominent author who rubbed elbows with America’s cultural elites. Yet, she was never rebuked or upbraided by her fellow “good” Jews or anyone else that I’m aware of.
Funny how her anti-white invective was downplayed but had a WN said that Jews are the cancer of human history then it would have been time for soul searching, teeth knashing and censorship. Guy Blight, Friedrich Flinstone and other philo-semites would have used this as evidence to assert that anyone critical of Jews wants to see them dead and denies the Holocaust. Jews are held to a much lower standard and that is total hypocrisy.
Then we have Jewish professor Noel Ignatiev whose stated objective is to “abolish the white race”. Of course he cleverly skirts around the idea of physical extermination by stating that whiteness is defined by white identity and white privilege but I think it’s safe to assume he’d like to see white people dead. At a minimum he wants to see us completely dispossessed so I guess he’s not as bad as Linder.
Unfortunately none of this seems to be a smoking gun to HW. I don’t know what else it takes to convince someone that some prominent and successful Jews have very bad intentions towards us.
Go ahead and be indignant over calls for genocide but at least be consistent. Don’t get uppity when Linder says something but then be totally dispassionate, objective and stoic when non-whites or Jews slyly insinuate or suggest the outright genocide of whites. There is a glaring double standard at work here.
Well, I suppose my work here is done (until the next time). But still no respect, and I’m no Rodney Dangerfield. What gives?
(shakes head, wipes tear away)
TTFN.
P.S. I can’t help but feel that this moment lacked something without uh’s presence. Where ever you are uh, keep your chin up, and keep peddling your social transaction theory; solid gold.
Hi OD and Hello Wallace,
Ive been looking for good sites relevant to the movement and have to say that this one is probably one of the far better ones. In my search I also found a site called “Jett and Jahn” which I initially thought would be a joke but while they do have a few laughs they also address some serious points that I think this site would in general find useful . Their opinions are rather similar to what the general consensus here is so I referred them to this site and decided to also refer you to them
http://jettandjahn.afrasaibi.com/jettz/
PS
I think most people here will be pleased with my essay.
In my interview, I drew a clear distinction between “physical genocide” and “cultural genocide.” I think a plausible argument can be made that the latter is going on.
Hunter,
While I certainly understand your grievance with VNN and Alex Linder, your reflection on the Jewish question must not be one of doubt, rather one of questioning whether that which Linder produces as “the nature of the jews” is a factual basis, or whether or not there can be found some far more better explanation as to the nature of the Jewish people. Linder like Duke promotes a conspiracy theory which when reflected upon diligently doesn’t withstand serious scrutiny, however when you read (and I do recommend that you do) Eugen Duehrings “On the Jews” you will come to find a far more suitable explanation as to why it is they appear to be so motivated toward destructive goals.
I do understand your dismay at Linders statements and that of Giles it is unacceptable, but considering the nature of VNN, it was never a website that promoted White Racialism in any way or form. It was a place where for the most part…the dysfunctional people gather. Of course there are rare exceptions. On Giles himself its funny that this guy should pop out of nowhere, and manage to get such high brow figures like Potok on his online Skype show, not to mention others who wouldn’t waste their time with online Messenger based shows.
Also why would Dan Jones’ Lawyer discuss his case with a Farmer from Mississippi? Giles claims after he told the Lawyer “Who I am” the Lawyer simply readily gave him all pertinent information, who precisely is Giles? He is a suspect character. And you should consider yourself lucky that you had managed to sniff him out before you got too involved with this clown.
Are there actually people posting on this blog who believe in the Hollow Hoax fraud? Wow, I didn’t think people like that still existed.
Whites were 90% of the population in 1965 and are now only 65% so a case can be made that the former is going on also.
I see Linder’s handiwork all over that interview with Giles. I don’t believe, however, that Linder thought that it was going to backfire in his face in the way that it did. He was hoping for your radicalization, and he got the opposite. I’m waiting for his grandiloquent threats on destroying you, as he did with VDARE, AmRen, etc. Yup, he’s got that much power scanning the field from his lonely little sandbox of mental defectives and sociopaths who couldn’t organize a Christmas party. He doesn’t seem to know just how irrelevant and marginal he is even within the rarified field of online White Nationalism?
I don’t want to be associated with exterminationists.
Exactly. People keep forgetting about the percentages. It’s all about percentages.
In my interview, I drew a clear distinction between “physical genocide” and “cultural genocide.” I think a plausible argument can be made that the latter is going on.
Culture is the unwritten jurisprudence for intraracial interaction. Culture is soft legislation for an ethny. Culturecide is genocide.
Linder has painted himself into a corner on the Single Jewish Cause and there’s no way out for him at this juncture. He’s universally known as the World’s Greatest Anti-Semite and Exterminationist. Not exactly a career-enhancer and his life is ruined for all intents and purposes. He has made that decision, why he know ritually shames those who haven’t speaks to his wounded psyche and not much else. I do believe that he feels lonely out there and would like to take some guys down with him and he has, for one reason or another, his eyes trained on you. I don’t have any doubts that if he knew your identity he would leak it online. This has a rampant mean-streak the same of a Caribbean island. I actually prefer Richard Warman to Alex Linder, at least with Richard Warman one knows where one stands, but their goals are similar, albeit their reasons might differ. The fact that no militant Jewish organization has taken him out yet, also speaks volumes to me. At any rate, he need to be quarantined in his little zoo and completely ostracized and ignored. He doesn’t exist.
“the size…”
Friedrich Braun is definitely the #1 Judeophiliac posting on this blog. Congratulations, Friedrich. How does it feel?
Just because Linder is a fool doesn’t mean FB is right.
I see FB’s bizarre turn towards slavish, willfully ignorant philo-semitism as indicating a suspect personality in the same way that Linder’s extremism does. Both lack normal ability to deal with nuance and uncertainty.
I want to cut out the rumors. We don’t have any hard evidence that Giles or Linder are working for the federal government. It would be fair to say they have acted like agent provocateurs. Their behavior certainly fits that pattern. It raises questions.
A bait and switch tactic by putting me in the same sentence with Linder. I have clarified my stance on the J.Q. several times here and elsewhere after reflecting on it for over a year. I have my reasons and I stand by them more firmly than ever. You have ad hominems.
As I’ve said, H.W. wilfully associated with exterminationists and mental defectives for months, it’ll take months before this crowd finally changes venues. In the meantime, I’d close the comments section.
It does raise questions, indeed. The solution: avoid them unless and until you’re satisfied with the answers.
Giles repeatedly tried to get me to endorse his idea of a legal genocide, a Wyatt Earp style mass murder, as if the legality of genocide makes it morally justifiable. He sounded like Hal Turner to me.
I never said a thing about Giles except that he’s a timewaster. I don’t see why circumstantial evidence and informed speculation should be out of bounds for us…because Linder said so? You yourself have pointed out that he collects IPs for the feds and hands them to them. And insists that people identify themselves. These are legitimate questions that shouldn’t remain taboo for his personal comfort. The stakes are too high.
Here is the major issue that we need to address: does blogging about the Jewish Question, that is, drawing attention to the issue, is that aiding and abetting the exterminationist anti-Semites? Are we making their job easier? Are we making people more receptive to the idea of killing Jews and non-Whites? What are the moral implications of that?
I don’t think that’s the right question. The question is “does failing to blog about the Jewish Question, that is, failing to draw attention to the issue, is that aiding and abetting the genocide of our people?”
The question as you frame it puts Jewish interests ahead of our own. If we don’t put our interests first, who will? How can we hope to survive?
Guessedworker is essentially correct.
Beyond this, I realize that the last few days have been rather, er, unpleasant. That’s putting it mildly.
But really, what has changed? Giles has gotten out of line and treated Hunter shabbily. Solution? Easy. Don’t do more interviews with Giles, don’t promote him, unless and until he establishes that he recognizes the error of his ways…if then. It’s too bad, I thought that Giles had potential. Who knows, maybe he still does. But one thing is for sure: the world will still turn if certain people refuse to grant interviews to Jim Giles.
Linder has become explicitly exterminationist? Solution? Easy. Distance yourself from Linder, unless and until he stops saying things that play into our enemies hands. I’ve made no secret of the fact that I believe Linder to be brilliant. But if he’s going to stake out positions that harm our ability to win and/or offend our moral sense, then the solution is simple: disassociate. No need to move into a panic. No need to cozy up with liars just because they are anti-Linder.
Again, we are not a unified political party or hierarchical organization. People are free to disassociate themselves from anyone who is making themselves toxic. If someone insists on being radioactive, then the solution is obvious: work instead with people that aren’t radioactive. Or just do your own thing.
This notion that we are “helping” the exterminationists by dealing honestly and forthrightly with the problems that plague our people is, frankly, ridiculous and plays directly into the hands of the enemy.
Firstly, where are all these exterminationists? We’ve got Linder calling for it. Who else? Maybe an odd and sod somewhere along the line, but to say that this is a big force in white nationalism is absurd. It’s simply untrue, and claiming otherwise plays right into the hands of our enemy. Where is this big bad group of exterminationists?
Given the fact that the exterminationists barely exist at all, I don’t see how anything we do is particularly “helping” them. Further, it is certainly true that any revolutionary movement, by definition, seeks to upset the status quo. Whenever the status quo is upset, there is always the risk of nuts and kooks inflicting some damage. Do our enemies let this stop them? Do the Leftists and Jews say, “We can’t push our Marxist agenda, because there is an outside possibility of some radical bolshevik group slaughtering whites en masse?”
LOL! They wouldn’t let that fear stop them for a New York minute. And in fairness to them, no winning group can. Only losers think that way.
Winners move forward with their agenda. That’s why they are winners. They don’t shirk in terror because some other leftist out there is calling for whitey’s head. In fact, showing once again that they are smarter than the so called Right, the leftists treat us thusly: “If you demonstrate even the slightest whit of white racial consciousness, then you are a naziwhowantstokillsixmillionjews. Your views inevitably lead to genocide. Therefore, we get to geno…er…mix you out of existence so that you can’t commit, well, genocide. And by the way, ignore the mass killings that the Left has committed all over the globe. Nothing to see there. Sure, we kill people by the tens of millions, but that isn’t genocide. But if you don’t want your daughter to bed down with an African, well, that’s genocide, or soon will be.”
Calling Lieutenant Calley. I guess you have to destroy a village, or a people, to “save” it.
That’s a big part of the Leftist/Jewish schtick: peg us as exterminationists, while covering up their own genocidal policies.
There is absolutely nothing exterminationist about our core aim. We want to preserve ourselves as a people. We want our white homelands back. This is a noble, healthy and perfectly normal impulse. To let the enemy smear this as genocidal is foolish. To let trolls on this very board smear us in this regard is damn near criminal.
But to do their work for them, to smear ourselves, to tar ourselves with the genocidal brush, is pure lunacy. We should not play into their hands like this, either by associating with the exterminationists, or by playing into the absolutely false meme that white nationalist objectives are exterminationist in nature. We recognize the right of all peoples to their own homelands, but we are damn sure going to have our own as well. This isn’t exterminationsist, it is more along the lines of “Fair is fair.”
Just remember, despite the unpleasantness of the last few days, the world will still turn.
Linder also has painted himself into a corner on the question of exterminating all Jews everywhere, thereby turning away all healthy and sane Whites. Linder in a jail cell with White, itz coming!
Culture is the unwritten jurisprudence for intraracial interaction. Culture is soft legislation for an ethny. Culturecide is genocide.
Christianity did that a long time ago.
ben tillman,
You made an excellent point.
ben tillman is another judeo-obsessive. One of the bigger ones from MR, a place already chock full of them. It’s quite an accomplishment.
“On Giles himself its funny that this guy should pop out of nowhere, and manage to get such high brow figures like Potok on his online Skype show, not to mention others who wouldn’t waste their time with online Messenger based shows.
Also why would Dan Jones’ Lawyer discuss his case with a Farmer from Mississippi? Giles claims after he told the Lawyer “Who I am” the Lawyer simply readily gave him all pertinent information, who precisely is Giles? He is a suspect character. And you should consider yourself lucky that you had managed to sniff him out before you got too involved with this clown.”
Bingo! We’re getting at the heart of the matter, I believe. I already have an idea of what’s going on with both Linder and Giles.
Does Giles even know what the term “genocide” means? If he thinks interracial crime is genocide, and he applies that same definition to his approach on Jews, perhaps he doesn’t mean a full genocide but a purge. I’m not defending him, just trying to understand him.
Whites are experiencing something like genocide:
“Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part.”
On Giles himself its funny that this guy should pop out of nowhere, and manage to get such high brow figures like Potok on his online Skype show, not to mention others who wouldn’t waste their time with online Messenger based shows.
That’s actually a really good point. Some red flags are going up!
This means Giles position may not be that he supports the extermination of every Jew, but an “eye for an eye” approach to Jews. Which I don’t defend. But it’d different from Linder.
I went back and listened to my interview. He clearly said that Jews should be exterminated.
Hunter, don’t you like being lectured to like a child by delusional and dishonest exterminationists?
H.W., since there is already a trillion anti-Semitic sites and blogs out there, a cacophony of noise, why bother with this stale theme? Why not take a more analytical and philosophical path? Immigration/ invasion, White dispossession, Obama’s America, changing demographics, affirmative action, minority crime, Islamism, these are subjects worthy of attention. Guillaume Faye famously told David Duke: the Jews don’t exist for me, they are like the Eskimo. At that time I came down pretty hard on him, now I see his greater wisdom and my smallnes of vision. He was right, I was wrong.
FB, because it’s clear that HW is under tremendous peer pressure to conform, and that has been a deciding factor for a long time. However, Giles has shaken that confidence, and now HW can be more objective.
I don’t think Jews can be compared to Eskimos. If the Jews acted like Eskimos, I don’t think anyone on this site (well, the majority of posters) would have a problem with them.
You know that wasn’t my point. Bringing up Jews defeats us, it defeats our goals even before we explode from the starting blocks. If we want to accomplish at least some of the things we want to accomplish, jettisoning the J.Q. is elementary. We won’t get any traction unless we abandon anti-Semitism.
Giles hates the Klan… said he wants to drive a stake through the heart of the Klan.
He applied for a job with the FBI, said he was turned down. You don’t say…
Braun: “Why not take a more analytical and philosophical path?”
And then: “Immigration/ invasion, White dispossession, Obama’s America, changing demographics, affirmative action, minority crime, Islamism, these are subjects worthy of attention.”
Hmmm. Yeah, Jihad Watch and Numbers USA are really cutting edge.
“Guillaume Faye famously told David Duke: the Jews don’t exist for me, they are like the Eskimo.”
Yet to achieve object permanence I see. But hope springs eternal.
“At that time I came down pretty hard on him, now I see his greater wisdom and my smallnes of vision. He was right, I was wrong.”
I love irony, at least I hope that’s what it is.
Your position:
1.) We should ignore Jewish hostility toward Whites.
2.) We should pretend this isn’t a serious problem.
3.) We should jettison the Jewish Question for strategic reasons.
I can’t go along with this. Guy White, Steve Sailer, and Auster are willing to discuss the topic. Abandoning the Jewish Question raises moral questions of its own.
Giles doesn’t believe in vigilante justice, but then talks about killing blacks and extermination. This guy has checked out.
The problem with some Jews is that they tend to throw the baby out with the bathwater. They fail to distinguish between right wingers who are on their side and right wingers who want to kill them. I don’t think denying that there are crazy people who want to kill Jews helps fix the situation. We can reject holocaust revisionism, Jewish genetic programming and anti-Semitic beliefs, and still acknowledge that many Jews have a grievance. That this grievance is unfair and causes a lot of collateral damage.
It makes it easier just to say “fuck them all.” But I can’t really do that, because I have some Jewish ancestry myself, and because I don’t want to lower to the level of paranoids who haven’t grown up yet and act like children
It makes it easier just to say “fuck them all.” But I can’t really do that, because I have some Jewish ancestry myself
Don’t worry, that’s normal around these parts. Just compensate by being even more anti-Semitic than normal, they’ll eat it up.
Christianity did that a long time ago.
Not really.
Christianity accommodated the basic structures of European jurisprudence. There is some scholarly, book length treatments out there on the subject of Germanic and Anglo-Saxon law becoming “Christianized.”
A foreign, Semitic religion displaced the native cultural practices. You may have the opinion that it was for the better. But we have undergone a lot of cultural changes, “genocide” throughout history. What culture do most white Americans really have?
“Giles doesn’t believe in vigilante justice, but then talks about killing blacks and extermination. This guy has checked out.”
The term Giles was searching for was not so much ‘posse’ as ‘death squad’. Of course ‘legal’ is what the powers that be say is legal. So I guess he’s technically correct.
Btw, I like your style; quasi-witty trolling I mean.
It’s not just ancestry.
I believe both WNs and Jews are behaving childish. It’s about behaving like an adult.
181Captainchaos
The term Giles was searching for was not so much ‘posse’ as ‘death squad’. Of course ‘legal’ is what the powers that be say is legal. So I guess he’s technically correct.
You are a completely clueless, narcissistic troll.
Jim Giles doesn’t want friends.
That state which seperates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools”
Thucydides,
(The Peloponessian War)
Best of Christmas to all of you and all your families.
He says these people keep emailing him trying to be friendly, and he doesn’t want friends. As he likes to say, “fuck you” over and over. He’s got his dogs, god damnit.
A foreign, Semitic religion displaced the native cultural practices. You may have the opinion that it was for the better. But we have undergone a lot of cultural changes, “genocide” throughout history. What culture do most white Americans really have?
Firstly, my point was that it didn’t fundamentally change. Changing the names of the Gods while retaining basic cultural norms is not complete upheaval. Additionally, changes and displacement are two different things. Change combined with population change or displacement another thing. When people voluntarily change something else entirely has occurred.
Most White Americans have no culture like most Whites throughout history and across our territory have always had. I’m not dying or killing for the average Wal-Mart shopper. Period.
What kind of person doesn’t want friends? An isolated sociopath.
Jim should reconcile with his brother.
I’m listening to his latest monologue. Jim Giles is another George Sodini or James von Brunn waiting to happen.
I could tolerate some of Jim’s eccentricities, I’m familiar with his type in the South, but he’s just too hostile.
It’s alright, H.W. We don’t have to agree. I know that I present a path to political success. You’ll get around. You’re too smart not to. You’ve made tremendous progress in a few days. I can’t be too demanding. I’m proud of you.
http://guywhite.wordpress.com/2009/12/20/the-danger-of-exaggerating/
See Guy White isn’t “controlled by Jews.” He’s just not against them.
“You are a completely clueless, narcissistic troll.”
Mark, you’re a funny guy (whether or not this is intentional I don’t know, nor really care); I just can’t get mad at a guy who makes me laugh. Whatever it is you call what you do, keep it up.
Alex Linder and Jim Giles = Matt Hale and Benjamin Smith
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Nathaniel_Smith
Coldequation:
The typical MR/OD poster believes:
-That Jews are implacable enemies of whites who want whites exterminated.
-That Jews aren’t white, ruling out assimilation as a desirable outcome
And they’re also anti-Zionist. What does that leave besides extermination? If I believed what most of you believe about Jews, I’d be for extermination.
I don’t know about the typical MR/OD poster, but I know I feel at home at either site, and I don’t believe the first, have serious qualifications about the second, and don’t qualify for the third.
I think Jews have chosen to be enemies of whites, and that this choice is subject to, well, choice.
I think the question of Jews being non-white is a complex one. Are they white in the ethnic sense? Typically, no, absolutely not. Are they white in the genetic sense? Not really, but this isn’t much of a sticking point to me. Jews are such a thorn in our side that if the assimilation was total I’d jump at the chance, not quibble over the relatively small distance between Euros and Jews.
And I’m not anti-Zionist, per se. I hold Jews’ feet to the fire over their hypocrisy. My support for Zionism is contingent on Jews’ support for Euro ethnopatriotism, so currently yes, I’m anti-Zionist, but my position on Jewish ethnopatriotism is “pegged” to the general Jewish position on Euro ethnopatriotism. Added to this is the complication that we can make Jews look bad by whole-heartedly supporting Zionism and making big sad-children faces over the unrequited love.
Mark:
There’s actually a diversity of opinion here, it’s not that simple.
People often say “the Jews,” which I think is sometimes shorthand, sometimes all inclusive, depending on the writer. The reasonable people are talking about organized Jewry, which is a different animal to the common Jew. Organized Jewry is without a doubt anti-white (name one Jewish group that is pro-white) and must be dismantled or driven out of our country.
Where do these “organized Jews” come from? The eye of Zeus? They’re promoted “common Jews.”
John Hartung (I should probably be paying this guy royalties, LOL):
Some people here think Jews are white or close enough to be assimilated. I personally am concerned about racial purity and the preservation of our race, so I disagree with this stance. When our race is teetering on the brink of extinction, we should be more conscious of racial purity, not less. Otherwise who the hell cares and let’s just join Brazil.
My problem’s with the practicality of assimilation, which I view to be nil, not the genetic end (that is, the practicality is a deal-breaker for me; I don’t mean that the genetic end isn’t a problem, just that I’d be willing to overlook it if not for the other issue). Jews simply will not assimilate. They are the subject of assimilation, not the object.
Tough guy Giles needs to ask Derby some tough questions, like why he married an Asian and had mixed children.
This is a tough question how? Derb isn’t an ethnopatriot AFAIK.
Wikitopian:
In the immediate situation, we have to see past the dichotomy. If we allow ourselves to be silenced on the problem of Jewish influence by Linder’s erroneous and artificial dichotomy between whether Whites or Jews should be rounded up, we’re playing by his rules. The end game is one in which the entire White Advocacy movement is a barren wasteland with one man left standing.
If Sunstein and MacDonald are right, Linder’s going to be the one dictating to us, not the other way around. Assuming we’re all in the same tent (in the loose sense), that is. So we’re going to have to either get our own tent (in the loose sense), or get used to the most radical elements getting their way.
HW:
I want to cut out the rumors. We don’t have any hard evidence that Giles or Linder are working for the federal government. It would be fair to say they have acted like agent provocateurs. Their behavior certainly fits that pattern. It raises questions.
That’s all that matters. In fact, I think there’s a good argument to be made for the idea that we should all pile on and start referring to such people as Feds. What do the pay stubs matter? If it looks, walks, talks, and quacks like a duck, then for our purposes it is a duck. If it carries water for the Feds, it is a Fed, regardless of the pay stubs.
Ben Tillman:
I don’t think that’s the right question. The question is “does failing to blog about the Jewish Question, that is, failing to draw attention to the issue, is that aiding and abetting the genocide of our people?”
The question as you frame it puts Jewish interests ahead of our own. If we don’t put our interests first, who will? How can we hope to survive?
Yup.
Daniel,
Do you think Brazil retained most of their culture and religion despite their wanton miscegenation? They’re still Latin and Christian. Despite their self-identified white population having significant non-white admixture, did genocide occur there?
If I had two choices :
1)Not talking about Jews at all
2)Deranged theories
I’d choose 1.
But ideally there is a third option which treats Jews as human beings with a grievance instead of genetically programmed genociders.
194Captainchaos
Mark, you’re a funny guy (whether or not this is intentional I don’t know, nor really care); I just can’t get mad at a guy who makes me laugh. Whatever it is you call what you do, keep it up.
Captainclueless has more words of feigned wisdom. You need to work on your schtick, it’s very amateurish. I would laugh at you, but it’s just so sad.
190Hunter Wallace
I’m listening to his latest monologue. Jim Giles is another George Sodini or James von Brunn waiting to happen.
Giles really doesn’t seem all that different from the typical VNN member. If they had a radio show, they’d probably sound similar. Most of those nuts just don’t broadcast their thoughts over internet radio.
I remember on a VNN broadcast, which I almost never listened to, but got lucky with the one I did catch live. Linder, someone else and I believe Craig Cobb were having a conversation. Near the end Craig all of a sudden had a breakdown for no apparent reason and started yelling like a maniac. There was dead silence, even Linder was stunned. That’s something else. They edited that out of the archive I noticed.
198Iceman
If I had two choices :
1)Not talking about Jews at all
2)Deranged theories
I’d choose 1.
It’s nearly impossible to discuss Jews without #2 with the people currently involved. Especially since so many people are taken with guys who fervently advocate #2.
Funny, Jim said he’s starting to lose his voice and needs to stop screaming.
Hadding, I don’t think his fundamental beliefs have changed, that of preserving white culture and heritage, rather the best method to go about that. For some the white race comes first, for others hating Jews does. Even if we had a white ethnostate I think these same people would still dedicate their life to anti-Semitism.
Hadding, you’re being unfair to Hunter. Giles is himself emotionally volatile, as the rant quoted by Hunter attests. It’s understandable that Hunter’s interaction with Giles would produce an emotional reaction. I’m confident, however, that Hunter is clear-headed enough that reason will prevail over emotion.
Mark:
I’ve never been to Brazil and don’t know anything about the country. I don’t know anything about the numbers there either. I would hazard a guess that they aren’t Christian in any meaningful theological sense or the traditional European sense. The same way there are “Anglicans” in Nigeria is the way there are “Christians” in South America. The look for the Virgin Mary appearing in puddles of pancake syrup and shit. If there was a genocide there, it was a genocide of the natives and not the Euro colonizers/invaders.
We’re being equivocal about the word genocide here. I’m trying to be more precise and draw and analogy simultaneously and it isn’t working very well.
It appears circumstantially that you are changing you are announcing a change in your political views as a form of revenge on people who weren’t nice to you. How effeminate!
The majority of people are like that. Linder himself talks about how he became anti-Semitic from his negative experiences with Jews in the workplace. Lots of people become pro-white to some degree because of their negative experiences with blacks.
206danielj
We’re being equivocal about the word genocide here. I’m trying to be more precise and draw and analogy simultaneously and it isn’t working very well.
Well it is a curious thing, because we’re talking about an incremental change, not a total replacement. At what point of a cultural or genetic change does it become genocide? Some are for purity, or relative purity, others think we just need a majority white country/genetic stock.
Hunter,
I have mailed you on the address you last used to contact me.
Friedrich,
I have always enjoyed good relations with you. I see no reason for that to change now. You should know, in any case, that my attitude towards Jewry is very straightforward. The treatment accorded Jews in our midst is a telling indicator of our civilisation. It behoves us, therefore, to treat them morally and equibly. Accordingly, I recommend that we do unto them not a whit more nor less than they do unto us.
If that isn’t good enough for you I should like to know why.
Bruised egos aside, the impression remains that Hunter has an intellectual objection to killing whites but a visceral revulsion at killing Jews. That can’t be good.
Lord, protect me from my friends; I can take care of my enemies
- Voltaire
We’re back to eye for an eye. Linder says on his site that advocacy of genocide is retaliation for the teachings of the Talmud. Do you agree with this, Gues? I’ll wager that a majority of the people here do.
Well it is a curious thing, because we’re talking about an incremental change, not a total replacement. At what point of a cultural or genetic change does it become genocide? Some are for purity, or relative purity, others think we just need a majority white country/genetic stock.
Indeed. This is the issue we should be discussing. Maybe not here, if Hunter has other aspirations for the blog, but across the whole sphere.
I do know that race, family and nation are important and can serve as a bulwark against…. Well, against bad stuff that I can’t quite define properly. Christmas vacation starts today so I’m gonna have some scotch and relax for a while instead of stressing out about it.
Enjoy your scotch and take it easy. Have a Merry Christmas.
Mark: We’re back to eye for an eye.
No, we are not. The truth of us is not that, and I advocate in this and in everything that we are true to ourselves. Our truth, since you will aurely ask, is the staying of our hand from vengeance. We are Europeans, not crude Semites.
If Alex (whom I like, incidentally) thinks “an eye for an eye” would not damage us, he is wrong, and is very likely being led into error by his romanticism. Friedrich remembers that well.
Also, maybe what we need is a triple moral code: in group, out groups willing and able to reciprocate, and out groups that are completely intransigent.
I wonder what the hell happened to my post.
You certainly are different from Alex, Gues. It seems he sees the world through a Jewish prism. WWJD, what would Jews do? His lasting posting on his front page is that we’re “afraid” to consider immorality, genocide. This is the genius some refer to.
*latest
Re:Braun #152:”In the meantime, I’d close the comments section.”
There he goes again, calling on Hunter to implement Soviet/Jew-style censorship here. Note that he is calling for suppression of speech and open debate at the height of the popularity of this website, which makes it even worse.
This website gets fairly high traffic and is definitely making an impact on the opinions of many people; it is a great gathering place for more than a few excellent White Nationalist thinkers, especially up-and-coming American ones who are young Generation Yers — thus, to shut down the comments here would be pure folly. Makes me wonder what Braun’s motivation is with his calls to squelch all open commenting and debate here, becoming a fawning philo-Semite, seeking to recruit Jews in to the White Nationalist fold, etc. What the hell is wrong with you, Braun? Why do you want to make this an Auster-like site wherein all debate and commenting is carefully controlled or even shut-off completely? I guarantee that if Hunter cut off the comments here his traffic would drop by at least half, probably more…is that what you want? In case you didn’t get the memo, the whole point of a friggin blog is the open interaction (via commenting) with the reading audience.
Even though I’m not a big chatroom or IM person by any stretch, I’ve suggested to Hunter a couple times before (and I won’t harp on about it anymore) that he ought to take the discussion here a bit further by installing a real-time chat feature for more in-depth conversation, possibly even scheduling chat conferences or chat-sessions to formulate pro-White strategies, research ideas, article topics, info-sharing, etc; as far as I know no other similarly popular WNist blog or website has a feature like this, it could possibly help to further the cause quite a bit if it caught on, making this website even more of a prime gathering place for young White Nationalist minds: http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/wp-live-chat/
If you don’t want to do that here Hunter, what are some other popular pro-White websites we could ask about possibly doing this? Anyone have some ideas?
For the WordPress chatroom feature also see - http://blog.chatroll.com/how-to/add-a-free-wordpress-chat-box-to-your-blog-in-60-seconds
Snappy Refutations to Giles: ‘Put my dick in the dirt? I wouldn’t even fuck that dirt with your dick, Jim.”
But seriously, the sun does rise the day after getting cursed out by a guy who lives in a trailer.
I’m listening to his latest broadcast, and I can’t stop laughing…
222Captainchaos
Snappy Refutations to Giles: ‘Put my dick in the dirt? I wouldn’t even fuck that dirt with your dick, Jim.”
You don’t understand that expression, it has nothing to do with sex with dirt. LOL. I bet you were socially awkward in school.
“You don’t understand that expression, it has nothing to do with sex with dirt.”
Think about the way in which the expression was artfully reapplied to the relevant context, Mark. I’m sure you’ll get it after a few hours.
I don’t want stay clear of anti-Semitism, GW. It’s not personal.
Ooops, that should read: I want to…
It makes no sense Cap, like most of your posts, sad but true.
FB, you may have said this before, but what was your turning point? Was Linder the primary influence?
Re:Nicholas More #140 - “…however when you read (and I do recommend that you do) Eugen Duehrings “On the Jews” you will come to find a far more suitable explanation as to why it is they appear to be so motivated toward destructive goals.”
Yes, thank you NM, I also recommend that everyone who is truly serious about studying the Jewish problem reads that critical book by Eugen Dühring — it isn’t actually entitled “Eugen Dühring on the Jews” but rather The Jewish Question: A Racial, Moral and Cultural Question with a World-Historical Answer — though in the best modern edition it is has been re-titled for some reason as Eugen Dühring on the Jews by Alexander Jacob (published in 1997): ISBN 0-906879-31-0
In that book Eugen Dühring basically laid the groundwork for “biological anti-Semitism,” that is to say ethnic-based anti-Semitism, which is the only tried and true form of “anti-Semitism,” the key to finally containing Jewry by putting them back in their subordinate position as they should be here in the White West. The work was a giant leap up the sociological, political, economic, and philosophical ladder of understanding in terms of evolving the needed White/Western civilizational defenses against the ‘invasive species’ of Jewry as I discussed in a recent comment above.
Hunter — if you ever get around to reading it I would like to read your review of it on your ‘Antisemitica’ blog, and I’d also like to read other reviews from many other WNists and Judeoskeptics — because it is all there in the book, the Jewish problem was almost completely quantified by Dühring back in his time.
Aside from overly expensive used copies on Amazon, the only place I’ve been able to find it for sale is over on National Vanguard books - http://www.natvanbooks.com/cgi-bin/webc.cgi/st_prod.html?p_prodid=44&p_catid= - it is a translation of the 2nd edition (1881) by Dr Alexander Jacob, who is actually an Indian-British-Canadian scholar who translated, edited, and wrote an introduction to the book during his Visiting Fellowship with the Dept. of Political Science at the Univ. of Toronto during the mid-1990s (how he managed to ‘gain clearance’ from the academic ‘authorities’ there to do that I’m not sure). As I mentioned recently in a blurb on my blog, it would be excellent if Occidental Press or another pro-White printing press could possibly get partial rights to this text from Nineteen Eighty Four Press (out of Brighton, England) and release a new/updated copy of it.
The book is so important that all university and/or public library copies in Germany, Austria, and throughout all of Europe were likely seized and permanently ’stored away’ and/or incinerated (censored) by the Jew-directed Allies during the post-WWII period — fact in point, they didn’t want Judeoskeptical scholars of the future (people like us) having access to this books like this. Who knows how many other similar books, articles, archives, and so on have been lost to censorship ever since the end of WWII? I know for a fact that it is likely millions of pages (even tens of millions) which have been buried in permanently ‘restricted’ archives or tossed in to the flames of pro-Jewish Allied post-war revenge against the Germans.
Alex Linder
He has no problem with accused child molestors, convicts, and anonymous trolls making all kinds of libelous assertions about me but never putting forward any evidence. The kid needs to grow up and decide whether he’s in or out. If he’s in, he should start writing under his real name, and raise his posting standards to VNN’s level.
http://vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=1084763&postcount=3
More “brilliant” writing from the internet navy seal, black ops exterminationist.
Dr Duke actually interview Dr Jacob back in 2005; it was a good interview; hear it @ http://www.davidduke.com/mp3/dukeradio1mar05.mp3
Dr Alexander Jacob has written and/or edited quite a few books of interest to White Nationalists and Judeoskeptics in the last few years; see - http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=ntt_athr_dp_sr_1?_encoding=UTF8&sort=relevancerank&search-alias=books&field-author=Dr.%20Alexander%20Jacob
Mark, anti-Semitism isn’t politically viable anymore but I also oppose it on moral grounds. I can’t really write as I’m on my cell phone.
Right, but you didn’t always feel that way as I recall. So what was the major turning point? Just curious.
I’m reading on VNN, and it’s all the typical ad hom and false accusations. I’ve never been philo-Semitic, nor have I ever changed my views. It’s like dealing with a medieval mob with these people.
Look how fast they turn on HW. Shows who your real friends are.
I guess just time to stand back and reflect. I also noticed that the biggest general scumbags were frequently the biggest anti-Semites.
You know what I just realized. If Jews during the civil rights era really were viewed by hardcore racialist as non-whites (even though the government counted them as white) like WNs do now, then their anti-racist behavior is totally acceptable. It makes me a bit more sympathetic to them. Why defend racial consciousness when it’s used against you? Yet it’s still a backfiring move, because Blacks now hate Jews.
Smarter Jews however should realize that it’s only a fringe who seeks to classify them as non-whites and ignore the fringe. Besides, modern racialism will be all about human biodiversity, not a return to Jim Crow, the Confederacy (which wasn’t anti-Jewish) or the Third Reich.
Ben Tillman, White Preservationist and Trainspotter have done a great job analyzing this situation.
One useful thing about VNN is that it has lots of practical information like the entry “COINTELPRO Techniques for dilution, misdirection and control of an internet forum.”. I have the distinct impression that a few regular posters here are operatives following this kind of playbook.
Happy Hanukkuh FB!
The TOQ crowd needs to put up a few sites where we can create a similar resource to VNN that isn’t tainted by exterminationism or racism. We need some sites with trustworthy hosts (i.e. not honey pots for our enemies etc) where we can run more sophisticated software than blogs. Some volunteers could even create some custom enhancements.
To save our people we the truth and useful ideas, whatever the source, whether Democrats, Republicans, Jews, leftists, Muslims, scientists, artists, Japanese fishermen, whoever… including Alex Linder. We’re getting our asses kicked and need to flexible in acquiring whatever tools we need to preserve our people.
Where Alex Linder is right, we can usefully adapt his insight. Where we’re not sure, we must do further study and debate. Where he’s wrong or immoral, we can filter out, ignore or condemn, depending on the situation. I think almost all of us agree that his extermination proposal is both wrong and immoral. I don’t see the left or Jews jumping through hoops to disassociate themselves from their mass murderers or moral monsters. At most they save a few words and move on, no big whoop for them. We should emulate them (another Linder insight).
Hunter, you have thoroughly disassociated yourself from the exterminationist policy. You did it repeatedly and with clarity and passion in your interview with Jim Giles. You’ve done it with great passion and frequency on this blog over the last couple of days. Your position is crystal clear. If you never speak another word on this subject, you’ve discharged your duty to disassociate yourself from it.
It is impossible for our people to be healed and regain their strength without discussing the Jewish causes, since they are the single most important set of factors in our decline. Most importantly, this isn’t a historical problem but endures in the present and indefinite future until we take concrete action to change it.
Of course, we need lots of stars in our constellation of advocacy (ORION), some of those stars may deal badly with the JQ, like AmRen, but their real goal to act as a segment in the conveyor belt moving people from heavy brainwashing toward less brainwashing. To begin grappling with the JQ is be inexorably pulled toward greater and greater truth in time.
The single most important goal is to deprogram that deep brainwashing most most Whites suffer. The malevolent millstone of White guilt must chipped away by chisels, dissolved with acid and smashed with hammers. It’s gotta go. We need alternative media, culture, education, social groups, economic networks, … everything.
We can’t do much until we get mass and inertia.
This is why Jim Giles has proven himself to either be COINTELPRO or hopelessly stupid by undermining those doing the key step to create the change that will stop the kind of outrages he rails against. Why didn’t he show this kind of piss and vinegar to the true enemies of Whites he had of his show instead of a comrade? Instead he sucked up to those dishonest, powerful, genocide-advocating vipers. He should never be trusted again.
BTW, Giles shouldn’t blame WN for being ignorant about outrages against Whites. He should blame the Jewish-controlled media that covers them up and makes sure they are quickly dropped down the memory hole. Only with the internet are we breaking our brainwashing and creating broader networks that better ferret out these double-standard horrors.
Unlike Linder, the anti-White system has real power and is enforcing its incremental genocide of Whites without a peep of regret or moral doubt. This system is so evil, it dares to label Whites who merely advocate for future White EXISTENCE as neo-nazi racist haters, etc, which is most cases are all slanderous lies.
There is no soul-searching among our enemies about their anti-White racist and genocidal ideas, policies and actions. Whites need to toughen up and stop privileging non-White and Jewish interests above our own people. They sure as hell don’t offer us the same courtesy. White interests must come first in our calculations, not last.
We can work with others in practical politics and those pushing anti-White policies must suffering reverses to the things they really care about. There must be real costs to anti-White actions and rewards for pro-White behavior. One “advantage’ to their having so much high-ground is they have a lot to defend against, so we have many places to attack and undermine their interests.
Whites must stop playing by gentleman’s rules while our opponents throw sand it our face and kick us in the balls.
A further concern is that we have a “soft” genocidal system now designed to dispossess us over several decades, but Jewish-led mass-murder and genocide in Eastern Europe among the Russians, Ukrainians, Poles and others, provides reasonable suspicion that when Jews have marginalized us enough in the US and other lands, they may orchestrate “hard” genocide to kill off remaining significant threats to their power.
” I know that I present a path to political success. ”
YES!
Friedrich Braun, Jared Taylor, Nick Griffin, Geert Wilders, and Arthur Kemp are laying down the foundations RIGHT NOW of a successful (proto) movement that shall incorporate a sensible Philo-Semitism.
Indeed Griffin has already been elected to a political office, showing the first fruits of this new stratagem!
Alex Linder vindicates Daniel Jonah Goldhagen’s thesis. How that helps Whites is a mystery. (It doesn’t.)
Merry Christmas to you too, Grimoire. Trinity is Lord?
And great quote you included, that one is well worth writing down in the ol’ personal archives.
In reference to the quote, we in the White West definitely need to rebuild the White/Western elite, an elite which used to be composed of men who were often all of the following categories wrapped in to one:
(1) Warriors-soldiers-militiamen
(2) Scholars, intellectuals, philosophers, social and military strategists, writers, philosophers, poets, religious leaders, etc
(3) Landed agrarianists, pastoralists/herders, planters, craftsmen, etc
* The elite of this elite, the cream of the crop, eventually became the main political class, the military overclass, etc. — and of course the best of the best became the king, caesar, overlord, tribal leader, etc.
That is the basis of White/Western elite we need to rebuild — again, that is exactly what the Western elite used to be composed of, this tripartite model man, all three social levels wrapped in to one group or even person — of course not every single elite Western man could be, for instance, a farmer or a rancher, but the White/Western everyman or common citizen could still be a craftsperson, or a skilled worker, etc. and still be a local militiaman or warrior as well as an independent scholar/intellectual of sorts if he was intelligent enough to do so (strict entrenched Christianity of the last 1,500 years in many White nations didn’t help this though and actually proved a hindrance in many cases). Now we have these effete urban-dwelling deracinated dork intellectuals and effeminate ‘creative class’ policy wonks running things in Western capital cities, these people often cut a truly pathetic figure because of they are thoroughly Judaized, especially detached from the common folk (their own racial kin), the land, the production of necessary foodstuffs, and the matters of war and security, deliberately crowded in to various urban and suburban areas of The West to be exploited, used, and abused like cattle by the international Jewish plutocracy. Again, these ‘new Western elites’ are very often wholly separated from the land and people they are supposed to be ruling over, detached and living in their skyscraper apartments or townhouses like huddled rats, working (rotting away) like drones in their boring offices, nothing more than bureaucratic sell-outs to the international Jewish plutocracy, an all around sickening situation brought on by mass-industrialization, urbanization, suburbanization, and overall ‘massification’ of The West during the 20th Century (which was often Jew-led by the way).
I wrote a bit about this needed ‘elite synthesis’ on my website:
Similarly, in C&H’s recent book The 10,000 Year Explosion (which I just recently finished) I read about ‘The Proto-Indo-Europeans’ in Chapter 6 (”EXPANSIONS”); some relevant info:
“… Proto-Indo-European society as a whole was divided into three orders: a clerical class that administered the sacrificial rites of a polytheistic religion, a warrior class, and herder-cultivators. This division of society shows up in far-flung parts of the Indo-European dispersal: Ancient India had brahmanas, ksatriras, and vaisyas, while Rome had flamines, milites, and quirites. French linguist George Dumezil and others have argued that this “tripartition” plays a key role in the religion and mythology of the Indo-European peoples [NOTE:which was clearly carried over in to the religion of Christianity], as Herodotus tells us how the kingship of the Scythians* was awarded to one of three brothers who could pick up a burning cup, an axe, and a plow with a yoke. The three orders were color-coded. Priests wore white, warriors wore red, and the common people were symbolized by blue or black. …”
* NOTE: the Scythians were Indo-Europeans who were definitely of Northern European racial extraction, being described by Herodotus as “The Budini [tribe of the Scythians] are a large and powerful nation: they have all deep blue eyes, and bright red hair.” - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians#Historiography - they lived as nomadic herders in what is now Ukraine and even much further east, far in to what is now considered Central ‘Asia.’
Now, even though there was this traditionally strict tripartite separation within Indo-European, Aryan, White, and Western cultures and societies, I advocate a (re)confluence of these three areas to resurrect the White/Western elite which has been deracinated and even deliberately extirpated by Jewish-fomented wars and social unrest during the 20th Century (and the Industrial Age in general, which has shaken and deeply confused every nation and people it has infected to its very core). Of course individuals will still specialize in or gravitate toward a specific area or profession, that is natural and to be expected since people have personal likes, dislikes, and preferences, but since the Western elite has become so deracinated in these recent turbulent times of Jewish hegemon(e)y we will need to ‘reracinate’ a White/Western elite via the wholesale rebuilding of it from the ground-up.
We need to stop allowing Jew money to domesticate us as if we are a bunch of suburban housepets; we need to throw off the rusted shackles of Jewish Mammonism and rebuild the White warrior class: traditional White warrior values vs. corrupt Jew money values…which side do you think the 21st Century White ‘peasants’ would be on, especially in these trying times of Jew-induced monetary decay and economic decline?
Scotchfiend does justice to his moniker.
Re. post # 230, WP. You mention, during your description of Dühring’s seminal book, among other things “Who knows how many other similar books, articles, archives and so on have been lost to censorship since the end of WWII?”. This is very true, as the Third Reich scholars and their institutes issued a plethora of monographs, journals and books on the subject, very little of which has ever been translated into English. This material is today suppressed in the remaining German speaking areas of Europe, and is expensive and hard to acquire. Interested laymen and scholars are somewhat familiar with period tabloids like Der Stürmer and Der Judenkenner, but have no idea what a rich lode of quality university level research material was put out at that time on the JQ. There were also at least 4 or 5 state funded research institutes that published their materials on the JQ on a regular basis. An interesting and very useful introduction to this material is, oddly enough, an excellent and rather objective book called STUDYING THE JEW, by a Jewish author named Alan Steinweis. It was published in 2006, and should still be available through Amazon.com.
Couple of comments of mine above contained more than 2 links and will thus need to be cleared by you, Hunter.
The views people have on Jews are quite sophisticated here.
It isn’t just “I love Jews” and “I hate Jews.”
Taylor may be right. This debate can go on forever, and it prevents people from focusing on other issues.
It seems the world view of the wacky philo-semites can be summed up as follows:
1) Anyone who criticizes Jews is a holocaust denier and harbors a secret desire to exterminate all Jews.
2) Jews are waiting and willing to become white nationalists en masse if only anti-semites would come to their senses.
3) We would be in a spiritual, political and economic dark age if not for the genius of the Jew (don’t ask them to provide any evidence….they’ll call you a knatsee).
Philo-semites are the same people who will use a few quotes from the Koran to indict every Muslim on earth yet let a WN cite quotes from the Talmud or other Jewish holy books and he becomes an exterminationist, a mental defective and a paranoid crazy person. Philo-semites are quick to make sweeping and damning generalizations about critics of Jews, but cry to the heavens when given a taste of their own medicine.
Philos construct an ideology whereby Jews are really no different than any other racial group, only smarter and more affluent. Jews can only be criticized within a very, very narrow framework if at all. Where Jews committed sins they were largely acting in a supporting role to gentiles (just read all of Guy White’s posts). Anyone who comes along wishing to offer arguments to the contrary is set upon with a viciousness that would make Alex Linder green with envy.
Philo-semites see themselves as paragons of rationality, lucidity and erudition on all things concerning Jews yet in reality are some of the most small minded, bigoted and spiteful people one will every associate with.
Let’s recall that the Jewish or Hebrew Bible (i.e., Deuteronomy and the Book of Joshua in the Old Testament and also in the Jewish tanakh) portrays the mass-killing of gentiles/non-Israelites, and their animals, as a positive thing. Here’s an Old Testament quote about the mass-killing:
“And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword.” (Joshua 6:21). The story is that Joshua, a Hebrew leader, killed large numbers of non-Hebrews/gentiles, and their livestock. Joshua’s actions are portrayed as good, and as a commandment from God [2].
Further, how ironic that it was a Jew, Raphael Lemkin, who coined the word “genocide” in a negative light. Apparently, it’s a bad thing when gentiles commit genocide but it’s ok when Jews do it while following a mitzvah, i.e., a commandment from God.
“3) We would be in a spiritual, political and economic dark age if not for the genius of the Jew (don’t ask them to provide any evidence….they’ll call you a knatsee).”
That’s a good one. I’ll have to relay that to my philosemitic friend, Constantin Von Hoffmeister. Hail Technocracy!
Ancient genocides in the Holy Land:
The Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) of the Bible describe many events which involved major loss of life. Most were conventional wars. At least four events would probably qualify as genocides under most current definitions of the term. They were:
bullet Genesis, chapters 6 to 8: The Bible records that God was concerned about the level of violence and other evil behavior among humans. He “was sorry that He had made man on the earth…” 6 God apparentlydecided that the solution lay in more violence: He decided to destroy almost the entire human race. Only Noah, his three sons and their four wives survived by building an ark to ride out the flood. The rest of the human race — elderly, men, women, youth, children, infants and newborns — and the land animals and birds were said to have all drowned a gruesome death. The Schofield Bible dates the flood as happening in 2349 BCE. This was the largest and most thorough act of genocide in history. Jews and Christians are undecided about whether it actually happened, or whether it is a religious myth derived from Babylonian sources. More details.
bullet Exodus, chapters 11 & 12: God first hardened the heart of the Pharaoh of Egypt so that he would refuse the request by his Hebrew slaves for permission to leave Egypt. Then, God sent a series of plagues to torment all the inhabitants of Egypt. Finally, God sent an angel to kill all of the first-born in the country — both human and animal — including the old, middle-aged, young, and newborns. The only exception were those Hebrews who had taken special precautions by ritually slaughtering a lamb and spreading its blood over the doorways of their homes. This genocide was the final act that convinced the Pharaoh to release the Hebrews. Schofield dates the Exodus of the Hebrews from Egypt at 1491 BCE.
bullet Deuteronomy, chapters 7 & 20. and Joshua, chapters 6, 8, 10, 11, 14, etc.: After wandering in the desert for four decades, God ordered the Hebrews to invade the “promised land” and totally exterminate “the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites and the Jebusites” 7 leaving “alive nothing that breathes.” 8 They were to fight and kill the soldiers of these groups, and then murder the defenseless elderly, women, youths, children, infants, and newborns. The book of Joshua records the progress of the genocide, city by city:
bullet Joshua 8:24 - City of Ai
bullet Joshua 10:26 - Joshua murdered five defenseless kings of the Amorites in cold blood.
bullet Joshua 10:28 - City of Makkedah
bullet Joshua 10:29 - City of Libnah
bullet Joshua 10:31 - City of Lachish
bullet Joshua 10:33 - City of Gezer “…Joshua smote him and his people until he had left him none remaining.”
bullet Joshua 10:34 - City of Elgon “They left none remaining.”
bullet Joshua 10:37 - City of Hebron
bullet Joshua 10:38 - City of Debir
bullet Judges, chapters 19 and 20: Some of the people in the town of Gibeah of the tribe of Benjamin sexually abused and murdered the concubine of a priest. In an act of grave desecration of her body, her owner mutilated her corpse by cutting it into 12 pieces. He sent one to each of the tribes of Israel. This triggered a civil war between the tribe of Benjamin, and an army of 400,000 soldiers, drawn from the remaining 11 tribes. Tens of thousands died during the fighting. Apparently all of the Benjamin towns were burned and their women and children were systematically exterminated during these battles. The tribe of Benjamin was nearly wiped out; only a few hundred men survived. Other atrocities then followed which provided new wives for the men of the tribe of Benjamin, so that the tribe would continue.
Re:Junghans - #242:
“have no idea what a rich lode of quality university level research material was put out at that time on the JQ. There were also at least 4 or 5 state funded research institutes that published their materials on the JQ on a regular basis.”
Yes, you are exactly correct, many great points — untold numbers of books, monographs, articles, magazines, scientific studies, and so on (probably millions of pages) were written on the Jewish problem by the German National Socialists during their reign, top-notch socioscientific research done by many leading German scholars of the Jewish Question during the 1930s/40s, has been outright seized or burned by the post-war ‘authorities,’ gangs of document-seizers and book-burners led by rabidly anti-German ’scholars’ and ‘archivists’ who ‘just so happened’ to be Jews. Much of this has likely been entirely lost to history since it has been destroyed or buried in inaccessible archives owned by Jews who will not allow anyone to peruse them. As you wrote, the National Socialists officially started and funded numerous scholarly institutes or think-tanks which explicitly studied the Jewish problem…these institutes published new material and evidence constantly and also had vast libraries and archives on Jewish history, Jewish finances, Jewish criminality, etc going back many centuries in Europe and elsewhere.
Steinweis’ book STUDYING THE JEW is a good one (even though Steinweis is apparently a Jew he is pretty honest in that book), I bought it a few months after it came out — it was actually one of the first main books I read on the Jewish Question when I began to seriously study the Jewish issue a few years ago, long before I was an ‘anti-Semite’ or a White Nationalist, probably because it came out around the same time I began inquiring in to the Jewish problem. It does contain a ton of good info about the massive Jewish Studies archives the German National Socialists had amassed, but which now are now almost completely lost to history due to Jewish suppression and destruction of them because of all the incriminating evidence they contained.
It goes without saying that Jews of course had a hand in suppressing and destroying all of this incriminating info about them — Jews are of course inveterate journalists, archivists, librarians, book collectors, etc, and after the war was over they swarmed in to Europe like locusts, raided most of these key archives and libraries, and seized and/or destroyed all of the anti-Jewish evidence they could get their hands on. I am almost positive this occurred. For instance, the Jew Max Weinrich who wrote the book HITLER’S PROFESSORS right after the war, in 1946, pretty much followed the heels of the Western ‘Allied’ armies in to Germany and started raiding all of these German libraries and archives, and Weinrich is only one of possibly tens of thousands of Jews who were doing this, Jews from all ‘Alied’ nations, especially the USSR, the USA, and the UK — these Jews and their corrupt minions had free reign to steal whatever books, documents, archives and so on that they wanted due to ‘de-Nazification,’ and they undoubtedly seized the most incriminating stuff, stuff which explicitly proved Jewish criminality in Europe and elsewhere going back centuries, then they shipped it all to the USA (all shipped away to Jewish libraries/archives like YIVO, which has been headquartered in NYC since 1940), where they are restricted to Jewish scholars or more likely totally destroyed. Thus Jews are again proven and exposed as liars and frauds, falsifying history via their manipulation, suppression, and/or destruction, of official documents related to continent-wide Jewish criminality. The National Socialists also ammassed huge archives on international Freemasonry and other similar groups too which implicated them in various crimes against humanity, often even in collusion with Jewry.
Even to this day it routinely occurs that Jewish document and/or book thieves are busted smuggling key documents/books/etc out of various archives or libraries solely because they clearly implicate Jews in crimes — the Jewish ’sanitation’ of Jewish history.
God’s Genocides
“Show them no mercy”
Quotations:
- “When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you may nations…then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them and show them no mercy.” Deuteronomy 7:1-2, NIV. 1
- “…do not leave alive anything that breaths. Completely destroy them…as the Lord your God has commanded you…” Deuteronomy 20:16, NIV. 1
——————————————
Overview of some biblical genocides:
Biblical scholar Raymond Schwager:
“… has found 600 passages of explicit violence in the Hebrew Bible [a.k.a. Old Testament], 1000 verses where God’s own violent actions of punishment are described, 100 passages where God expressly commands others to kill people, and several stories where God irrationally kills or tries to kill for no apparent reason. Violence … is easily the most often mentioned activity in the Hebrew Bible.” 6
Of the many passages in the Hebrew Scriptures that describe major loss of life, most were conventional wars. Four of these events would probably qualify as genocides under most current definitions of the term. They were:
- The worldwide flood at the time of Noah as described in Genesis, chapters 6 to 8. From the description, it almost completely wiped out the human race, with the exception of Noah, his wife and sons and their wives.
- The Passover incident described in Exodus chapters 11 and 12, in which all of the firstborn of all Egypt were slaughtered. This included newborns, children, youths, adults, the elderly — both human and animal.
- The conquest of Canaan, in which God ordered the Hebrews to completely exterminate the Canaanite people — again from the elderly to newborns and fetuses. This is described throughout the book of Joshua as occurring in Jericho and other Caananite cities.
- The near extermination of the entire tribe of Benjamin by the remaining 11 tribes, triggered by the serial rape and murder of a priest’s concubine by a few Benjamites. See Judges, chapter 20.
Once you wade through the obvious trolls there are some excellent comments on this thread, but scotchfiend really knocked it out of the park. Superb post.
The Universal Enslavement of the Non-Jew: The Ancient Jewish Plan for World Domination Found in the Old Testament
http://jewishracism.blogspot.com/2008/12/universal-enslavement-of-non-jew.html
The Universal Enslavement of the Non-Jew, Part 2: Jewish Supremacism in the Torah Proper
http://jewishracism.blogspot.com/2008/12/universal-enslavement-of-non-jew-jewish.html
The Universal Enslavement of the Non-Jew, Part 3: The Genocidal Jewish God Commands the Jews to Exterminate the Goyim
http://jewishracism.blogspot.com/2008/12/universal-enslavement-of-non-jew-part-3.html
The Universal Enslavement of the Non-Jew, Part 4: The Genocidal Jewish Prophets
http://jewishracism.blogspot.com/2008/12/universal-enslavement-of-non-jew-part-4.html
The Jewish Desire to Exterminate Non-Jews
http://jewishracism.blogspot.com/2008/10/jewish-desire-to-exterminate-non-jews.html
The Jewish Genocide of the Palestinians
http://jewishracism.blogspot.com/2009/01/jewish-genocide-of-palestinians.html
Braun:”I also noticed that the biggest general scumbags were frequently the biggest anti-Semites.”
If you actually knew anything about history you would also know that many of the most eminent men, thinkers, and leaders in European-White-Western history were fervent ‘anti-Semites.’
Of course anti-Jewish attitudes became ‘unfashionable’ (to use your term) only after World War II, AKA World War Jew, AKA The War to Destroy White-Western Freedom..before that war anti-Jewish attitudes were the norm, they were healthy and strong all over The West as they should be. And why did anti-Jewish attitudes become ‘unfashionable’ after the war? Because Jewry won the war and thus started to surreptitiously set the fashions of The West via their macro-control of the mass-media, politics, etc.
here is some consensus I believe, that extremism does more harm to our mission, than good.
Yet anyone of perception and intelligence, can see that the JQ is the major obstacle and burden that we labor to bear. First, because we face a brainwashed mass herded by our opinion leaders into seeing any discussion of the JQ as extremism, therefore discreditable. Second, because to omit or discard the JQ leaves us to pursue our aims as actors who are historically and culturally ignorant, even compromised…. therefore ineffective, and easily neutralized.
This is the real question. The real problem. How do we ourselves evolve a world view that ascends from the cellar of non-effectual and pointless extremism, to a zeitgeist that demands respect from the true ‘elite’, the non compromised leaders of society….and also impose order on the riff-raff barbarians barking in the cellar.
With respect the LInder/Miller/Giles situation I feel that out host gave them a chance in the same way I did when I distributed the Aryan Alternative so I could find out if the purposely offensive tactics of VNN could possibly achieve anything. I posted an article to VNN which demonstrated that the approach used didn’t work. What I got for my effort wasn’t thanks for distributing far more copies of Miller’s tabloid then all but a few few VNN supporters ever did or an acknowledgment of the virtues of using modern direct mail methods but condemnation for using what they wrongly presumed was a pseudo name and being called a Jew and a liar by anonymous cowards.
What you and I didn’t get for some time is that the sort of people that consume Linder/Miller/Gile’s brand of guttural brand of commentary simply aren’t interested in anything that makes Occidentals unique or doing anything that advances the cause of our survival. What they are interested in is vicariously advocating genocide and barbarity as a way to secure our existence while denouncing such behavior in others and in so doing them prove themselves as impotent, farcical and totally uninterested in gaining adherents as the costumed fetishists of the NSM and Bill White.
The truth is that vulgar abuse of anyone not buying into the exterminationist hysteria of VNN is somehow a sellout and an enemy of Occidentals is a sign of feeble minded escapism and psychopathy masquerading as revolutionary political activism. Delighting in the constant use of racial slurs, the ebonics inspired word “itz”, gratuitous abuse of reasoned criticism and fantasizing about murder are the sort of things that agent provocateurs, moral cripples and lunatics engage in and those of us that actually care about our people should ignore them to the greatest extent of our ability.
My experience with distributing the Aryan Alternative is found below:
My Experiences Distributing the Aryan Alternative
From afar I have been watching the ever increasing rate of decline of Occidental America and have been sadden, but not surprised, by the abysmal failure of what is commonly referred to as the WN movement in North America.
I have had numerous and serious concerns with the often mis-named racial conservative faction of the WN movement which has led me to the conclusion that it is an ideological and political/cultural dead end whose glory days have irreversibly faded into the distant past. Unfortunately, I have seen in American circles very little in the way of viable alternatives and no real efforts at innovation in terms of ideology, public policy positioning or tactics making it hard for someone as distant from the states as I am to do much of anything constructive.
I have known about VNN for nearly a year and the growing list of media projects made me interested in helping out. I had severe doubts about the abusive and simplistic nature that characterizes much of the material created by VNN being capable of awaking some semblance of racial conscience within Occidental Americans which delayed my involvement considerably. Regrettably, VNN does have very substantial failings that have made it rather difficult to decide if any level of involvement could be productive. High among my concerns is the odious nature of a particular VNN staffer whose legal and familiar history as well as odd sexual proclivities and mannerisms in general are at best highly worrisome. Clearly purchasing tabloids was not a wise option and simply giving money was equally unsatisfactory.
Still, I had to discover first hand if the ultra-confrontational and unabashedly offensive medium presented by VNN was a viable means of furthering White Nationalism in the states.
I did so by starting a limited direct mail marketing campaign to “test the waters” so to speak. That campaign started by contacting an American based direct marketing list broker from whom I purchased 2500 sets of names and addresses of purportedly White Americans equally subdivided along geographic lines and household income. After I got the lists I took out any names of non-European origin as well as any name of Iberian origin so as to minimize the chance of sending a mailing to a Mestizo.
Next I used a colour printer to produce a total of 5000 copies of the then current Aryan Alternative from a pdf file and hand stapled them together. I packed each tabloid into an envelope along with a piece of sticky paper upon which was typed the following: “I hope you found this complementary issue of the Aryan Alternative informative. If so, please visit http://www.govnn.com for additional information. No matter what your opinion of the newspaper I welcome your comments at the email address below ” I sealed the envelopes and divided them into to lots of 500 copies each which were boxed and posted to five separate friends in the states. My American friends were instructed to mail out 500 copies as soon as possible and wait until hearing from me to undertake the second phase of the mailing. My friends used international money orders I sent separately to purchase postage stamps which were affixed to the envelopes and mailed out.
About a week latter I started to receive feedback to my little project. Unfortunately, a week after my mailing went out the headline story on VNN was a pornographic essay named something like “Open Up and Say Kwa” and the feedback was far from encouraging. My mailing generated a total of twenty seven email responses starting a week or so after the mailing and all but three were openly hostile to the message found in the Aryan Alternative. Of the three non-hostile responses two complained about the “Open Up and Say Kwa” essay yet seemed to be somewhat responsive to the message of VNN while one expressed support for the “Caucasian race against Muslim terrorists” but said nothing else.
After waiting a couple of days I sent out a follow up mailing consisting of the following note: “Hello, recently you received a complementary copy of the Aryan Alternative which I hope you found informative . If so, please visit http://www.govnn.com for additional information. No matter what your opinion of the newspaper I welcome your comments at the email address below ”. At the time of this posting I had gotten an additional thirty two hostile emails, and three expressing an interest in “standing up for white rights” combined with criticism of the tone and use of slurs found in the Aryan Alternative/VNN.
Although discouraged I continued with my direct marketing effort. I did so by instructing my friends to mail out the remaining copies of the Aryan Alternative several days ago. The good news is the email responses I have gotten are already up to 41 responses. The bad news is that they are all negative. I can’t feign surprise to such an outcome given that inter-racial porn is given top billing on your blog at the moment.
Needless to say, I have my answer to the question of the viability of the shock/sicken them straight school of thought. I assume that whose judgement thought that “Open Up and Say Kwa” and the recent anal sex montage would help promote something healthy are beyond the appeal to empiricism I have detailed above. The text accompanying montage is likewise not persuasive.
Instead, I’d venture to say that the sort of person that’s interested in porn is not to interested in White Nationalism and would not be a good prospect for “studying to take power positions to make your anti-semitism — i.e., White normalcy — effective” and would under no circumstances “choose life”. As a result, the appeal that the article opens and ends with are wasted. On the other hand, any Occidental worth knowing would be repulsed by the depiction of sexual debasement no matter the racial make up of the models. Such a person would be ill-inclined to reading the article at all let alone drawing a favorable impression about the American WN movement as a result of doing so.
Instead, it would seem to me more fruitful to ask what if anything makes pornography socially and spiritually malignant. In purely hypothetical terms those interested in attempting to salvage our race should ask if pornography produced by Occidentals is acceptable provided it isn’t depicting miscegenation or other vile fetishes. While Mr. Linder correctly portrayed pornography as a distraction from opposing Jewry doing so does not say anything about the intrinsic nature of pornography or how it relates to the National Socialist weltanschauung. Should we assume that once Jewry is defeated pornography and other forms of commercial debasement are ideologically sound?
This notion of promoting various forms debasement as a means to advance some pro-Occidental vision underlies the abyssic void of principles, experiential knowledge and inward reflection so common in American internet based racial circles. The desire to shock and offend as means of effecting a change in the altitudes of others will, with few exceptions, reenforce rather then dissuade the mis-educated notions of those weaned on the Propasphere.
That is why after 25 years the clockwork orange antics of racist skins, hatecore and NSBM have driven off those best able to offer something to the life affirming philosophy of National Socialism. This is why the racial internet has seen such monstrosities as a “white power porno page” and countless expressions of psychopathy posing as revolutionary purity and virtue.
Casting justified and reasoned score upon the unviable strategy of appeasement favoured by mis-named racial conservatives is something that need be done by those that wish to make the necessary possible. Embracing the desire of a debased adolescence to shock and horrify shows an inability to recognize that which is necessary. A desire to “choose life” requires a divorce from that which runs counter to our racial vitality.
Sincerely
Hajo
I think it safe to say that 100% of Linder’s schemes have been total failures. Linder is a failure in life, pretty much across the board.
“The desire to shock and offend as means of effecting a change in the altitudes of others will, with few exceptions, reenforce rather then dissuade the mis-educated notions of those weaned on the Propasphere.”
I agree. The desire to shock disgusts and repels and doesn’t attract those we want most to attract. Linder is first and foremost a nihilist. I think that’s the key to understand his psychological makeup.
You know, I spoke about Linder earlier because I was explaining his intentions with discourse. After posting it, I’m not sure whether it was appropriate of me to directly discuss him while he’s disallowed from the forum. Going on about his being a “failure in life” is dishonorable for somebody using a pseudonym on a blog he’s not able to respond to.
I have no problem with pseudonyms, obviously, but they do make personal attacks on peoples’ personal lives innately unfair.
[*This post is not an endorsement of Alex Linder*]
Hajo, excellent point. Perhaps the uncompromising nature of white nationalism should be moral. We should not approve of depravity in any quarter. Depravity and the absence of integrity are the marks of the compromised. We fight against this imposed on all levels of our society.
People who lack a moral compass are a grave liabity to the movement - and should be regulated back to the cellar of VNN and the like.
A moral creed could do more for white nationalism acceptance than any other issue. White people right now are desperate for a return to the values that built the civilizations they are proud of.
Friedrich,
Nice try, but I even put up a big disclaimer. I’m not pitying or protecting Linder.
There are newspapers that conceal hurtful private insults behind pseudonyms. They’re called tabloids, and I consider them dishonorable.
Don’t get all nasty with me and start calling me names…
Wikitopian, your defense of Linder is noted and appreciated. Why else would you come to his rescue? I wasn’t speaking of tabloids. Neither The New York Times nor The Washington Post provide an automatic right of reply to persons they profiled. It’s always the discretion of the newspapers. Ditto for t.v. and radio shows. Why don’t you mind your own business? It was already noted that you post music videos on your site from known race-mixers.
As I’ve said, because of H.W.’s previous humouring of extreme anti-Semites and other mental defectives, this place will continue to be infested by them for months to come. 90% of people who post here can be categorized as judeo-obsessive freaks and wacko exterminationists.
Thanks Trainspotter. I’ve learned a lot from your great comments over the last several months.
One area where the Jews need to start playing defense is their constant supremacism.
Whiteness Studies which was founded by Jews like Noel Ignatiev, needs to be joined by Jewishness Studies. Essentially Jewishness Studies defines itself by using many of the Whiteness Studies documents and replacing the word “white” by “jew”. No group is more supremacist in American life than Jews. Jews that criticize Whites or deconstruct White identity, like Tim Wise, should NOT get away with pretending to be contrite “Whites” critiquing themselves. They should ALWAYS be recognized as Jews criticizing or attacking a separate group.
The ADL seems to think facts and the truth are canards if they’re inconvenient. Their efforts to put themselves beyond any and all criticism is naked supremacism. In fact, it’s not good enough for them to have their own cake and eat it too. They want to take other people’s cakes and eat them. But even that’s not good enough. They want to take everybody else’s flour, sugar, butter, chocolate, coconut, pans, stoves, cake cutters too. And then they want to seize the factories and farms that make all these ingredients and products, and the transportation networks used to move all these goodies around.
Because they tried to canardize EVERYTHING, even well-documented truths like Hollywood control, media domination and Israel Lobby existence, I started to wonder if other parts of the official Jewish narrative might also be bullshit too. Everybody should start questioning and asking for open investigation.
Although some pro-Whites might want to publicly avoid the issue for various public relations reasons, I think everyone should investigate Holocaust Revisionism. I used to believe the Holocaust orthodoxy and how evil the Nazis were, but now I’m much more skeptical. In fact I suspect much about orthodox World War 2 history is bullshit. There are many big lies being used to deceive and manipulate us.
Everyone should check out videos like One Third of the Holocaust, Buchenwald, Nazi Shrunken Heads, ( the 1994 Phil Donahue Show with Bradley Smith, David Cole, Michael Shermer, et al with cogent commentary, all by the same guy, available at his website: http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com). Ernst Zuendel, David Cole and others have very interesting videos. David Irving has some very interesting interviews where he reveals that British signals intelligence intercepted the enigma-machine encrypted daily reports made by Auschwitz back to HQ and that these reports included daily mortality statistics and that these mortality statistics agreed with the documents recovered by the Soviets when they took over the camp, and that these numbers agreed when those Soviet archives become available to Western scholars in the 1990s. And these mortality numbers are MASSIVELY lower than the orthodoxy and don’t include gassing. Those numbers were captured by British intelligence CONTEMPORANEOUSLY. There are MANY more details that militate against the Holocaust orthodoxy.
Full PDF copies of most works by the revisionists are available on the web. MANY of these revisionists have been or are in jail for their dissent, including Ernst Zuendel. They are true martyrs for freedom of speech and inquiry. The heroic Heretical Two are in jail in the UK after “our” government refused to give them asylum from the UK where they were convicted of totalitarian speech crimes that the Jews got put on the books. They aim to create this First Amendment destroying system here if they can get away with it. At the least they need to start paying a public relations price for their attempts to destroy freedom of speech and inquiry. Everybody should start naming it as the JEWISH SUPREMACISM that it is.
What is striking is how many Jewish “survivors” brazenly lie on American TV shows and are NEVER called on their extremely dubious claims. This unquestionability reflects the power of Jewish supremacism that must be challenged. One interesting project would be to mine the hundreds of shows that have the Holocaust testimonies and accumulate statistics on the ones that seem reliable versus possible versus ridiculous (e.g. ate 4 diamonds, pooped them out later and then re-ingested them daily over a year and half period, along with many other lurid, literary-sounding tales). Don’t miss the video of the “survivor” who was caught red-handed lying and then has the gall to act like it doesn’t matter because it was “true in his imagination”.
Many Jews seem to think truth is whatever is good or expedient for the Jews.
The Jews deserve only THE TRUTH. Nothing more. Nothing less. The do NOT deserve to continually lie, especially if what they’re lying about is an EXTREME SLANDER against the German people; what the Jews call a “blood libel”. And no, “true in your imagination but not physical reality” is A FUCKING LIE.
I don’t know the truth about the Holocaust although the arguments of the Revisionists seem to be calmly posed, logical, specific, and worthy of investigation. What I DO know with certainty is that the Jews seem dead set against treating the Holocaust by the same rules as EVERY OTHER HISTORICAL EVENT. They have orchestrated the creation of deeply anti-Western laws outlawing dissent about the Holocaust orthodoxy by imprisoning free inquiry and speech. THOUSANDS have been imprisoned. Their real goal is to intimidate everyone else into shutting up and not challenging their orthodoxy or supremacy.
We need to spread awareness that the Holocaust orthodoxy may be wrong in several of its major components, like whether or not 1) there was any plan to exterminate European or all Jews, 2) homicidal gas chambers existed, 3) the total number of Jewish deaths was 6 million or near this number, and so on.
I think one reason they scared to allow any cracks in the orthodoxy is because then people would realize they’ve been REPEATEDLY and SHAMELESSLY lied to by thousands of “witnesses” and our culture producers, like Hollywood with their endless stream of gas chamber depictions. So if such a big lie was destroyed, they fear the weakening of the other big lies propping up the anti-White system in the West.
If communists can do it, why can’t W.N.’s?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBoQQRxX8i4
Regarding some of the above comments, it is fairly evident to me that just about all Mr Braun does these days is engage in personal attacks on various threads which are filled with ‘drama.’ I haven’t seen him make a truly substantive comment in a long time, and he isn’t writing much anymore aside from an occasional guest essay over on MR or elsewhere.
Rarely does he ever discuss any issues unless it has to do with slandering people or else engaging in his especially effeminate-brand of philo-Semitic screeching and simpering.
HL:”The desire to shock and offend as means of effecting a change in the altitudes of others will, with few exceptions, reenforce rather then dissuade the mis-educated notions of those weaned on the Propasphere.”
Good points Hajo.
However, given the mass-brainwashing that has occurred in the USA via incessant broadcasting of gutter-filth by the Jewish-controlled American mass-media, many Americans these days seem to only respond to various ’shock and awe’ media tactics because they’ve simply become numbed to all of the degeneracy that steamrolls them every time they turn on their talmudvision.
That being said, in terms of a physical mailing I am quite sure your tactics of mass-mailing White Americans might’ve worked better if you had directed people to a more even-handed, mainstream, and dare I say ‘conservative’ pro-White website, especially one geared toward suburban and rural American Whites in their 30s, 40s, and beyond, especially if they have young White children, targeting especially the suburbs in Red States — had you directed them toward something like the CoCC website - http://cofcc.org/ - instead of a highly unpredictable and radical website like VNN, you would’ve likely gotten a better response.
Also, terms like “Aryan,” which have an obvious ‘taint’ because of the various misfortunes of 20th Century history, ought to be generally avoided.
Western Race Hatred Laws: Keep the Caucasians Down
10.12.2009 Source: Pravda.Ru URL: http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/111032-hate_crime-0
Throughout the totalitarian West, the Marxist internationalist elites, while busily flooding their countries with tens of millions of third worlders, have introduced specific measures to keep the native populations down and in check.
These measures have come in the form of Hate Crimes Laws. The laws state that a crime is not just a crime if we can find a deeper motive, such as hate of a specific race, sex, religion or sexual orientation. Thus the Lords of Humanity have given themselves the power of God to know what is inside the hearts of men.
In practical terms, what this means is 1. A murder is not just a murder if hate is involved. Say again? This means certain lives are worth more than others, a protected class, another insult to Christ and justice. 2. If the local jury trial is considered to lenient, then those globalist elites of the West can try the person again for “hate” or rather in actuality for the same crime, twice. Again, an insult to justice that Western serfs bow, grin and bare.
But this gets worse, since in practice, the elites decide who is a racist and who is not, they use these laws sparingly to keep the native population down, shackled and paranoid of the knock on the door.
In America, anti white violence is exploding, an average of 12 people per day are killed by their illegals and three times more whites and Asians are killed by blacks than vice versa. The same can be found in England. The head of the Justice Department, Hader, even stated that he approved the double standard used on whites. He did this in front of a parliamentary committee, with no real out cry by the totalitarians. As if any should be expected.
When five blacks kidnapped a white couple, raped and murdered the man, than kept the woman for further rapes and poured bleach down her throat to kill her, there was no hate crime, even though those five became the idols of black racist groups in American. When blacks in Los Angeles target Koreans for robbery and murder, also nothing. Nor when Mexican gangs ethnically cleanse one street after another. When Islamic Pakistanis in England beat an Anglican priest almost to death, in front of his church and screamed how they were going burn down the church, or when other Islamics poured acid in the face of a raped school girl, nothing happened. No hate crimes. When Islamic Turks murdered the white, Christian boyfriend of a Turkish girl, in Germany, not a hate crime. When Arabs and Pakistanis in Athens attack and burn Greek Orthodox businesses, not a hate crime. When the director van Gogh is brutally murdered by an Islamic assailant, not a hate crime. However, his Dutch film, showing the plight of the women under Islam, beat and abused, well, most definitely that is a hate crime…the film, not the wife beating, that’s just quaint multiculturalism, supported by the Western femiNazis, who have a secret lusting for this type of treatment.
Luckily, in Russia, Ukraine, Serbia and all none EU, none West Christian nations, this idiocy does not exist. Murder is murder, regardless of what is felt by the killer and defense of the local culture is paramount.
Westerners, truly I believe, you deserve this, since the vast majority of you take it and swallow it, like the good little castrated serfs you are. Enjoy your extinction, as you loaf around on your Chinese couches.
Stanislav Mishin
FB,
I never claimed to be a WN and don’t consider myself to be one. I am by no means macho and never have claimed such. I never claimed to be an intellectual either although I am a former academic. As to your ad hominem comment not much need be said other then that your abuse says far more about you then it does about me.
Grimoire,
I should state that I am not a WN since that term has no specific meaning in my opinion except within the North American context and even then the concept seems too nebulous for my taste. I don’t know of a particular term that accurately represents my views so I have refrained from labeling myself. I am fundamentally anti-liberal, a racial separatist, anti-cosmopolitan, ant-globalist and in favour of guildism and syndicalism.
As to morality yes I share your belief that any progress in the struggle is predicated upon moral certitude and obedience. Since our civilization is dead and we face demographic destruction propagated by a revolutionary enemy we must be revolutionary as well. Advocating a revolutionary creed simply isn’t possible if we tolerate those choose to revel in psychotic rants, empty threats and wear a hatred of intellect as a badge of pride.
Another great comment ScotchFiend @ #271: you are on a roll tonight!
Jews are inveterate liars. They lie constantly, and about everything. The whole Jew-manipulated economy of the USA and elsewhere is one big lie, same with the Jewish mass-media, the Jew-controlled legal system and medical system, everything in which Jewry predominates is one massive lie, nothing more than filthy Jewish Ponzi scams. Everything the Jews state as ‘honest to God’ truth ought to be investigated thoroughly to expose Jewish lies, including the Holocaust — when it comes to Jews one must literally question everything they say and accept nothing at face value.
As the well-known Schopenhauer quote goes: “The Jew is the Great Master of Lies.”
Hajo, I wasn’t speaking about you but about WP’s posturing. I enjoyed your recollections and agree with it wholeheartedly. My apologies for the misunderstanding.
“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness. / Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.” - Matthew 23:27-28
“And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, / And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.”- Matthew 21:12-13
The ever-eminent Martin Luther: “On the Jews and Their Lies” - http://www.humanitas-international.org/showcase/chronography/documents/luther-jews.htm
Again, mental defectives have us confused, Fade.
http://majorityrights.com/index.php/weblog/comments/a_question_and_an_answer/#c86366
@Scotchfeind
@WhitePreservationist
Good post Scotchfiend:
I, for one do not believe the holocaust is a fake propoganda operation . I know it is a fake propaganda operation. It is not an obscure issue.
But the issue is, how does it help us gain traction in the political realm? The answer it doesn’t, it’s an albatross around our neck.
How do you proceed then? You know you are going to be accused of being a lunatic holocaust denier as a white nationalist associated with Alex LInder and Bill White. Let them carry the dead bird. When asked by anyone how you condone the murder of six million jews…..Answer, I do not condone the murder of six million - I do however support unfettered historical research and free speech.
The issue is not the holocaust - that is for historians. The issue is reclaiming out homelands.
@Hajo
Well said. I do not consider myself a white nationalist either. I am a German and a European who lives in North America. I use the term in solidarity with the people here…the cause is the same. I respect but disagree with your statement our civilization is dead. I respect but disagree, but agree with your statement we must be ‘revolutionary as well’.
Revolutions are inherently unstable unless they are founded on the true moral and spiritual roots of the people. I would not join a Revolution unless this was so. I imagine you would agree of some of these points. That is why we cannot use the tactics of our enemies.
@Friedrich Braun
if you stopped engaging in small, meaningless battles with people who should be your friends, it would be appreciated.
This whole thing has been extremely draining, which is exactly what was intended, I’m sure.
[...] White Preservationist In a reply to commenter ‘Grimoire’ over on Occidental Dissent; he wrote — “That state which separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by [...]
“I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. / Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.” - Book of Revelation 2: 9-10
This was my comment to Hunter Wallace.
I should say, it was my comment to all.
Thank you very much for your comments and support here, Grimoire. We White Americans need all the help that we can get.
@White Preservationist
Your welcome! Our cause is the same, and on this cause we must stand as one people.
friedrich,
Tone it down with the flames and sniping.
Let me take a look at the MR and VNN threads.
I am mustering up some honor to take back some of the stupid and uncalled-for personal attacks I’ve made here on this thread and elsewhere, the ones toward Braun, Giles, Linder, and maybe a couple of others — I am not here to personally bash anyone, but rather to cooperate together in common cause to bring the USA back from the brink, whether it be racial, social, political, economic, religious, etc (or all of the above).
Instead of continuing to pointlessly attacking each other, let us all seek to cease all of this ridiculous pettiness and rumor-mongering and please try harder to cooperate more with each other with honor in order to better fight back against our accursed racial, political, and economic enemies: this is a time for increased solidarity and focus, not further division.
Yes, very many Americans are extremely angry at what is currently occurring in the USA and elsewhere; Americans are increasingly disoriented, bewildered, disconcerted, scared, confused, uncertain, and so on — we mostly optimistic, good-hearted, and naive Americans have had our nation stolen from us by nation-wrecking kikery, we’ve had it ripped out from under our feet just as so many of the Europeans and Russians did last century. Jewry has driven this nation to the edge of a cliff as they have done many times before, and they are still inching us closer toward that edge — they have indebted us to the tune of however many trillions of ‘dollars’ (pointless to even keep up with these ‘Einsteinian’ numbers anymore), seems like the only things Jews can actually create is endless amounts of debts plus shabby mass-media lies and gutter-filth Jew-illusions. But all of us here who realize the truth know that Jews are just doing what they are best at, which is of course wrecking White nations and seeking to undermine and ultimately cripple their sworn European racial enemies; they managed to put a huge dent in Europe in the last couple of world wars during the 20th Century, but it still remains to be seen if they can definitively conquer the USA.
So Giles lost his cool and was overly irate in some of his radio commentary, that is OK — it happens to everyone, we all get very angry sometimes. And Linder advocates some very uncommon and what many consider to be ‘extremist’ social, political, and racial positions — he is allowed to do that, we Americans (still) have full freedom of speech and the right to engage in open debate, and thus Linder is fully allowed, per the highest law in our land, to say whatever he wants. Hunter, you had a bad interview — no big deal, just move on and wish for the best next time. But Giles and Linder both have a key point to make, despite their often over-the-top ‘extremist’ positions — that point is: the time for ‘petty niceties’ here in Jew-wrecked America is rapidly drawing to a close.
Right now unknown millions of White Americans (plus Americans of other racial ancestries) are, despite the incredible superabundance of ultraproductive technological-modern economies, increasingly broke and in debt to rootless urban-internationalist Jew-usurer-vampires, more and more desperate and mentally strained by the day because of the widespread and mounting hardships that are evident all around us in this nation despite the fact that this country is in fact filled to the brim with incredible resources…people impoverished not only in terms of material goods but also in mind and spirit too, they and their families and friends drained for all they are worth by the sickening Jewish system of macro-control and then tossed aside as worthless human scrap. It is clear that rabid nation-wrecking Jews have now ruined much of America for Americans, just as they ruined much of Europe for the Europeans in the past, and have currently ruined much the Levant for the Arabs, and so on and so forth. Fellow White Americans living in the richest nation that has ever existed are being forced to eat out of trashcans or sleep out in the cold, people forced in to buying food or paying their mortgage with Jew-debt credit cards due the Jew-wrecked debtCONomy, losing everything they worked for in the past to some insanely greedy 30-something slimy NYC investment banker Jew who looks and acts like a Jew-ghetto-sewer rat who just crawled out his Eastern Euro shtetl-hovel for the first time, still acting like a crazed anti-European freak like it is way back in 1873 or whatever. Yup, things gon’ hafta change.
The fact is that we have to do what we can to bring our nation back to health, to fight Jewry right here in its current viper’s nest, the once-great U. S. of A., still a great nation but weakened and suffering from the Jewish plague, we must work to rescue it from the international Jew-plutocrat bloodsuckers and their associated money-grubbing White traitors who want to drag this entire nation down kickin and screaming in to this Jew pit, not to mention the White race and maybe even the entire world as a whole; because believe you me, Jewry is so ruthless that they would rather murder the entire world than take their slimy claws off of America’s levers of power.
It is clear that what is happening is that Jewry is dragging America and many other nations down with them; they are a damaged and accursed people, a people with what seems to be a death-wish and a sickening propensity to sow destruction, mayhem, confusion, chaos, anarchy, and disorder wherever they have the (mis)fortune to settle. Wherever Jewry pitches their tents for a few years and manages to gain undue control and influence, it is as if a slow but deadly pox seemingly settles unto the entire land which they manage to bring under their wicked sphere of influence. Not only are they draining us economically, politically, and so on, but they are ‘psychically’ draining us in a spiritual sense too, they have greedily seized the American Zeitgeist and utterly corrupted it to the core with their incessant Jewish lies and greed, America has been rendered almost unrecognizable due to sickening Jewish machinations of the last two+ decades — some commenters here and elsewhere are exactly right: this is as much of a spiritual war as it is an economic, political, and/or social one. We have to fight back on all fronts against these seemingly demonic fiends, and fighting back against them does not mean continuing to constantly fight amongst ourselves.
Good night everyone, and I wish a Very Merry Christmas To All - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUb8ySdERKs&feature=fvw
The myth is now circulating that Giles was courteous and respectful in the interview. Actually, it wasn’t an interview. That’s an unfair description. Giles conducted an interview with Mark Potok, Arthur Kemp, and Tim Wise.
In my case, I was treated to a monologue of Jim Giles describing his man crush on Alex Linder. I was rarely given the chance to speak. I had to interrupt him on several occasions just so I could make the occasional point. Giles announced at the outset of the “interview” that he was going to “shift gears.”
I was respectful throughout the interview. At the outset, I praised his work. I addressed him as “sir.” Although I was disgusted and furious, I held my temper and didn’t hang up the phone. I waited 24 hours before responding to him with this thread. He didn’t show the same respect to me.
Giles used his radio show as a platform for Jerry Springer style trash talk and rumor mongering. He soiled himself by using it to promote and legitimize mass murder. He talked about “knocking his dick in the dirt,” cutting throats, the need for trained killers, the need for a posse to legally murder random Jews and black people. He tried to get me to say that I truly agreed with Linder’s sick idea of genocide of the Jews.
Please note: if Hal Turner had said that, a known FBI informant, it would have been cited as definitive proof that he was an agent provocateur.
Any doubt that Jim Giles is crazy (or that his intentions were not malicious) was removed in his rant on Saturday. His broadcast yesterday (in which he rejects friendship) is enough to get him clinically diagnosed as a sociopath. Giles has a criminal history (including multiple convictions) which he discloses in several YouTube videos. He has a sore throat from all the screaming and yelling into his microphone.
I vaguely remember Jim Giles as a VNN Forum poster from years ago. He came across as a coarse, tough guy, yahoo type back then. This aspect of his personality was completely absent in the earlier interviews. I didn’t remember the old Jim Giles until a day or so ago.
Note to Sulla: I’ve moved on and left you guys alone. If you are going to post here, I expect you won’t reignite old feuds.
I sympathize with White Preservationist’s desire to move on with productive work, but I do think that the recent discussions have been genuinely productive.
Although I think that it is a bad idea for genuine movement people to fight with each other, abiding by that principle requires some reciprocity, which is something that Alex “the exterminator” Linder simply cannot do.
Furthermore, the recent blow-up has forced a lot of people to step back and ask themselves if Linder really is on our side or is working for the enemy. There is a pattern to Linder’s documentable online behavior over nearly a decade that makes it highly probable that he is an asset of the enemy. And even if Linder is not consciously working for the enemy, it still advances their interests to keep him out there, which would explain his mysterious bubble of legal immunity. This is something that people need to know.
Even if were not plausible to suspect Linder of working for the enemy, his crazy vindictiveness alone makes it unsafe to associate with him in any way. It is good for the movement for people to know that.
I note that “glass jaw” Linder has been rather quiet the last couple of days. Maybe he senses that his credibility has taken a beating due to his attacks on MacDonald, Johnson, etc. and due to his alliance with Jim “you look just like a hawg” Giles.
I am sure that he is itching for another round, but he may well be aware that it will hurt him more than it will hurt his targets. Of course, this sort of calculation will not deter him if he really is crazy, or if it really is his job is to stir up trouble.
But I also sense a lot of mercenary cunning in Linder. He might fear that his donations from the movement will take a beating, and even if he is working for the other side, he might feel he needs to take a break and build up his website a bit before engaging in another self-destructive battle.
As for “death squad” Giles, he is not cut out for radio journalism. He needs to keep doing those push-ups to stay in shape for the race war, when his berserker rage and black ops skills will finally come in handy.
“2) Jews are waiting and willing to become white nationalists en masse if only anti-semites would come to their senses. ”
This is an immense strawman!
The best thing about having Jews on our side would be to defuse nutty White liberals from shouting ‘NAZI’ at the top of their lungs and it would show ‘on the fence’ Whites that White Nationalists and Race Realists are fully capable of getting along fine with out hatching plans to construct concentration camps, resurrect Hitler, or launch Pogroms and other scarry dark scenarios from the past.
I believe firmly that there are alot of Whites that wouldn’t care about being called ‘Racist’, but would care about being associated with attempts at Genocide which in implicit in being called a ‘Nazi’ by some loony leftie White.
He’s referring to the crackdown on loudmouths like Bill White and Hal Turner. Martin Lindstedt also served time.
He’s referring to the crackdown on loudmouths like Bill White and Hal Turner.
And everyone defended them until it became a real liability, same thing will happen with Linder.
Hunter you shouldn’t have to repeat your case. It’s obvious who is in error here, Giles without reservation. If people can’t see it then they’re just irrational and you’re wasting your words on them. The problem is you’re a normal, intelligent guy surrounded by a lot of defectives with various psychological disorders. It’s a bit depressing, but that’s what we have to work with.
I believe this is a reasonable compromise:
http://antisemitica.wordpress.com/2009/12/21/my-answer/
What to do about the Jewish Problem?
A question that has plagued this world for how long, now? 2000 years or more? If you notice that the roof on your house has been leaking, how many times is it wise to just patch the hole or two that is causing the leaks? At what point do you decide that it is time for a new roof, so as to really solve the problem - as opposed to delaying the pursuit of the best remedy?
And, what is the proper and logically best remedy to pursue, when confronted with attempted genocide of your race and the complete destruction of the entirety of Western Civilization? Is not attempted genocide an extreme offense ? Should the response be tame, mild mannered, and gentlemanly? Isn’t this the same kind of thinking that ultimately lead to the defeat of the Old South under the leadership of General Robert E. Lee?
One of Jim Giles’s best interviews, I thought, was with John de Nugent - and during that interview, de Nugent pointed out that we are not fighting a chivalrous enemy. We’re dealing with something so evil, so stupendously diabolical - that, in order for us to survive in the end, we are going to have to adjust our tactics and our thinking, and understand that if we do not abandon our genetic inclination towards fairness and sportsmanship when fighting this battle, then we are going to lose. This enemy has no such restraints on their tactics; they lie, they cheat, they infiltrate, and they play dirty. They are willing to kick us in the nuts and knife or shoot us in the back - and they feel absolutely no remorse or guilt for having done so. They play to win, and winning is exactly what they will do - if we continue to use tactics that do not match up to theirs.
So, how do we fight an enemy who is ‘not chivalrous’? Certainly not by inviting them into our camp, as the Jared Taylors, Nick Griffins, and Arthur Kemps would do. And, the poster who pointed out that it has been the Jews who declared war upon us - and they did so by choice - and whites can either do whatever is necessary to survive, or we can roll over and let the Jews exterminate us.
Tough decisions lie ahead of us, friends. Like Braveheart said, we can either fight and possibly die, or we can run and then surely be destroyed.
What’s it going to be?
Oh I have not been the least bit subtle in my accusations. Linder’s behavior is consistent with being a kook, or a fed agent provocateur, or both.
He is definitely a kook. As for him being a fed, we will probably never know for sure, but his pattern of behavior is certainly consistent with that.
Only a fool, however, would associate with someone as risky as Linder just because we do not (yet) have ironclad proof that he works for the enemy. It is just too risky.
We know that he publishes the identity of his writers out of spite. We know that he saves IP information and hands it over to the authorities when asked.
Nobody with anything to lose can afford to associate with Alex Linder.
3.) I have a moral obligation to deter exterminationist anti-Semitism. I will balance my coverage of the Jewish Question with posts that shore up traditional moral values. We should discuss Christian values and virtue ethics a lot more. This can be done at Occidental Dissent. Moral racialists won’t follow sociopaths down the exterminationist road.
Good post, and I think this is a major issue. It’s a serious problem, and requires more than just feigning disapproval while winking and nodding at the exterminationist. It may not seem like a big issue to VNNers and sadists, but if you plan on appealing to real white people in person or having impact on the mainstream, exterminationists and sociopaths are a huge liability.
Jews outnumber non-Jewish whites at Harvard. The only operational mechanism currently causing Jewish numbers to drop is non-white immigration into the White West. This creates a substitution effect. This is acting on Jews now.
So if you are concerned about protecting Jews from genocide, then its a concern about protecting Jews from non-white immigration, which they in fact are a huge advocate of. The 12 Jewish senators have among the lowest grades from NumbersUSA. 80 percent of Jews voted for Obama. Jews gave to Democrats. Jewish neocons push immigration in the GOP. Neo-nazis are a threat of zero against Jewish numbers. That is a fantasy threat, not a real one.
There can be no casually opened door for Jews. It is as much as saying we are no longer capable of functioning without Jewish management. Bereft of ideas, we call in the Jewish pitchmen….I can think of little that would be more of a surer sign of total defeat.
There will be a time when we may parley with them. Now is not that time.
That said we must become more sophisticated concerning the JQ. There can be no more sifting through the imaginary ashes of Auschwitz, scanning Bolsheviks for hook noses or vague ‘naming of the Jew’.
No more calling for wholesale genocide or the megadeath of civil war.
We must present a alternative, and we must use in general, the language of modern politics; that is…cheerful scenario’s and happily-ever-after outcomes. That is, we must frame the debate to further our purpose, and not our enemies.
We must prove and show how our enemies prevent such merry ever after endings. We must tabulate the costs. We are free to connect the dots to Israel - that genie is out of the bottle and we must grab it by the throat, while careful not to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.
We must present a moral alternative. It is the one and almost only fault of the system that can be exploited. The system does not claim to be perfect, it claims there are no alternatives, and that nothing can be done.
We are the alternative and we must show what is to be done.
The system has branded us. It puts forward images of maladaptive individuals engaged in acts of sociopathic comedy best described by a jewish writer as ‘the banality of evil’. The media and ruling class continually show those that transgress the multicultural zeitgeist as literal insane asylum escapees. These are their cherished demons.
We must rebuild the White Nationalist warrior. He must be moral, but fierce. He must be fearless in action as well as word, yet subtle and cunning. He must be alert to all danger, yet conservative and calm. He must be truthful, speak the truth and seek the truth, but he must be a master of political reality and the discourse of redirection. He must be realistic about our opposition, but most important for all of us - HE MUST BE SURE OF VICTORY NOTWITHSTANDING ANY OPPOSITION.
And he must speak thus - defeatism is not an option, success is assured by historical necessity. THe new White Nationalist Warrior must be conscious he is an part of the integral mechanism of history, That is
IT IS HAPPENING NOW, As it was always assured it would.
Everything we say from now on must reflect that. Every word on the issue must point to the knowledge of what is to come. Every post, every article must contain the germ, it starts slowly, but it has started.
I said this is an occult war. This occult power is by ourselves, by each of us, on one another, on ourselves. It is the realization of inevitability….of the sureness of victory.
Once this is complete, all the answers will present themselves.
It is almost the start of a New Year - 2010.
2010 is a good year to build something that has not yet been seen in this era. It is as good a year as it gets to start to make history.
I’ve posted my answer. Check the main page.
” Certainly not by inviting them into our camp, as the Jared Taylors, Nick Griffins, and Arthur Kemps would do.”
That is precisely what must be done! Griffin himself has already won an election! Do you not see that this strategem is working RIGHT NOW!?!?!?!
Even Friedrich Nietzsche thought that inviting Jews in would be a good idea! ( http://tinyurl.com/yeavtwt )
4.) I have a moral obligation to emphasize that anti-Semitism is not an ideology. If Jews are willing to redress our grievances and acknowledge the harm they have done, as the White community has done on various issues, then we should abandon anti-Semitism.
I agree. Anti-Semitism or criticism and opposition of Jews is necessary so long as they continue to stand against us. It is a reaction to their own behavior and for our survival, it is self-defense. To copy Edgar Steel’s phrase from his book Defensive Racism, it’s defensive anti-Semitism.
The lasting work needs to be against exterminationism, not exterminationists in particular. As you suggested, we need more complete work on the moral dimensions and societal impacts of our work. If we continue producing good work on the nature and extent of Jewish influence but fail to imply appropriate reactions, then the exterminationists will continue to “eat our lunch”.
Giles may have been provocative and inflammatory when he kept implying that you’re probably genocidal but afraid to say it on the radio. But he’s not the only one who has wondered that. As far as I know, there hasn’t been a lot of work here on what actually should be done, and some people are going to either draw their own erroneous conclusions from the silence or go elsewhere for the answer.
Blame the victim right?
Their advocacy of extermination is a symptom of their personality, it’s not the only problem.
I was successful in getting John Derbyshire to cancel his interview.
What did you say? I’m curious.
Re: discourse poisoning.
With a single meme, Alex Linder destroyed Radio Free Mississippi, everyone take note. He convinced Jim Giles that exterminating the Jews was the only solution to the Jewish Question. After his explosion on Saturday, no one wants to touch him now.
I’ve deleted several of FB’s comments this morning. I cleaned up a few others.
Scrooby,
You are trolling. You are baiting FB into responding.
I forgot Greg Johnson: outstanding commentary by him, as good as it gets.
Why was my post deleted in reference to Scrooby’s display of his real personality? You didn’t delete your reply to it. I think you should have left it all up, we need to see the real face behind the mask.
People take Nietzsche too seriously as a theoretician, and not a polemicist. One book, he hates jews, suddenly he receives applause from anti-Semites, next book, he loves jews and thinks they are ideal.
One book he thinks Germans are the manliest race in existence and he loves Wagner, he receives praise from nationalists, next book he abhors Germans and hates Wagner…..and so on…. Nietzsche is about the mind, the imagination and the Will. He is not about phenomenon .
RR and Mark: you guys should study history. There never has been a deal with Jews were someone doesn’t get stabbed in the back - ever.
The best you can hope for is it will be you doing the stabbing. That is the type of moral compromise we should leave behind.
I consider it a sign of weakness, a guarantee of ineffectiveness, of incapacity if one thinks the only way to ensure victory is to become blind to the origins of the problem. You think you can win by making war with the symptoms, and not the causes. Then you don’t have what it takes and your just a roadblock. Things don’t change because you make a few deals.
I am trolling? I don’t troll, sorry. You let your friend do nothing but troll at will, just troll, some three hundred comments’ worth of it in this thread alone, then when others object you say they’re trolling? That was my first fucking comment in the thread, sorry. I don’t try to “bait” anyone into responding. I’ve responded calmly and rationally point by point to Braun’s comments both here and at MR and absolutely all I get in reply is “You’re a Jew, the biggest oddball on the internet, I’m calling your parents, you’re the biggest anti-Semite in cyberspace,” and I’m the one who’s trolling??????
312Hunter Wallace
Re: discourse poisoning.
With a single meme, Alex Linder destroyed Radio Free Mississippi, everyone take note. He convinced Jim Giles that exterminating the Jews was the only solution to the Jewish Question. After his explosion on Saturday, no one wants to touch him now.
Correct. However to get at the discourse poisoners, you have to wade through the crowd of sycophantic enablers.
Well, part of his disintegration was that his victim was you, HW. If it had been someone no one cared about it would have been no harm, no foul. He should have picked his target more carefully.
Scrooby,
You could have said: Hunter, please don’t allow FB to flame and troll this thread. That would have been sufficient to get your point across. I’ve already deleted several of his comments this morning.
If FB calls you a Jew, makes a personal attack, brings up your family, I will delete it, okay? Calm down.
Grimoire, I’m not proposing any deal with Jews other than separation. Being stabbed in the back is something you have to worry about with anyone, not just Jews.
HW can testify to that.
Hunter Wallace erased a comment of mine just now in which I complimented several posters on the quality of their posts. I’ll try again, this time leaving out the reference to FB: excellent commentary by Scotchfiend, Trainspotter, Ben Tillman, WP, Guessedworker, must of Grimoire’s stuff, and all the other good guys who’ve contributed common sense here. Greg Johnson too of course, but that one of mine wasn’t erased.
If FB calls you a Jew, makes a personal attack, brings up your family, I will delete it, okay? Calm down.
Why should it be deleted though, really? If it’s true, it’s a relevant point. Doesn’t Linder always say to name the Jew, including mischlings? Should we not talk about Tim Wise’s Jewish ancestry, Mark Potok, etc? That’s a double standard and hypocritical.
Sorry Mark
Mark,
Giles is live.
Giles just said fuck John Derbyshire.
Wow … he is going crazy.
Giles is like a psychotic Larry the Cable Guy. Funny, but scary…
What happened to locking the comment thread at 100?
It kept spilling over into old threads.
I think you’re right, HW. Giles is the next Von Brunn.
Derbyshire is a fucking piece of paleocon shit. - Giles
Giles is now ranting and raving and saying that Greg Johnson is trying to seduce me!
Giles is casting asperions on HW and Johnson, implying a relationship.
He said before his wife left him… didn’t see that coming!
I like how he talks real low, and then all of a sudden yells BOOM! into the mic.
I’m going to send this monologue to Derbyshire. This is the psycho who would have been doing his interview. He owes me one.
I would have preferred to let him do it and listen to that train wreck.
He’s got to do the Lindstedt vs Linder debate. Jerry Springer eat your heart out.
I think Giles is putting on a hell of a show. It’s as psycho as it gets…..the man is disturbed, but it’s like that show ‘Network’.
‘Mad as hell and not going to take it anymore’
This is actually good stuff.
Do we need any further proof that Linder’s demographic are psychos and sociopaths? In light of his recent silence, hell, I think even Linder might be having some second thoughts.
He needs to be worried about Giles losing control, saying fuck it all, and going on a shooting spree like James von Brunn, George Sodini, or Benjamin Smith.
Wow … the Jackson FBI has contacted him.
He’s going to drive himself over the edge reading about black crime.
If Giles could control himself and direct his energy in the right direction and in a positive manner he would be an asset. Unfortunately it seems he has a personality disorder that will always ruin relationships for him.
Matt Hale is warming up a bunk for his new cell mate … Alex Linder. He has finally reached his own Benjamin Smith. I saw it coming yesterday.
It was amusing trying to listen to the HW interview, turning the volume up to try to hear the whisper-quiet channel Hunter was on then falling out of my chair when Giles had his outbursts.
sheeeeeeeee-ite! The mans brains are scrambled! Give the man his due though. The whole reading the script thing, and the psycho asides…this stuff is classic kentucky fried nazi chicken.
And focusing the murder of those elderly people. Look, only a J.Giles can get away with this….but he deserves credit - this is a sermon - he’s lashing out at everyone - it’s over the top - it doesn’t matter if it’s psycho - it’s pretty damn good.
Holy shit!
Jim Giles is now calling the Mississippi Supreme Court domestic enemies. He is calling for domestic enemies to be exterminated. Now, I am no lawyer, but I know “free speech” has its limits.
This sounds to me like incitement to murder. If I remember correctly, the line is crossed when the individual is leading a mob and yells something like “get him.” It has to be an imminent thread.
Alex, I hope you are happy. You are getting what you asked for. The Jackson FBI is hot on Giles and I am sure they are paying attention to you.
Can someone with a legal background shed light on this?
In all seriousness, Linder really needs to try to call Giles and make an attempt to wind him down before this goes in one of any number of bad directions.
Mark Potok, call your friend and talk him back from the ledge!
What a SHOW! Hunter, i know your rightfully angry with Giles, A nut fell loose of an already loose cannon and he’s lashing at everyone, anyone not just you, you were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. The man is crazy - but he’s righteously crazy. Except for the part where he rags on you, tell me you don’t agree with what he’s saying….
We got to give this man his proper respect - he’s crazy, but he’s righteous.
Jim Giles has lost his fucking mind. There is no other way to put it. He is saying all of this shit on air … in the wake of Bill White going to prison. In this latest broadcast, I think there is a damn good chance he just broke the law.
He is naming specific individuals and calling them domestic enemies. He is following Linder, his guru, and advocating the extermination of said domestic enemies. He is shaming others as cowards for not doing this, appealing to “honor and integrity,” trying to incite the nutcases out there.
This FOOL had MARK POTOK on his show just the other day. Do you think for one second the SPLC isn’t monitoring him? Do you think the SPLC, in light of their stated mission, will hesitate to notify local law enforcement officials after hearing this? They are going to say that Giles is another Benjamin Smith/George Sodini/James von Brunn waiting to happen … or, he is trying to incite one of these characters.
In Eric Holder’s America, Bill White proves that you don’t even have to commit a violent act yourself to get locked up. Obama wants to focus on “domestic terrorism” to further his agenda. It gets him cred for “fighting terrorism” while pushing an anti-White agenda.
Alex Linder wants to aide the federal authorities by making it compulsory for VNN posters to give their true identities.
Some thoughts. Just throwing these out there, interested in your response.
1) There is a reason for privacy, but anyone leading, especially a writer or speaker, should operate under his real name. The seriousness of the charges we make against jews and the System are vitiated by anonymity and pseudonymity. I won’t make it an absolute, but I think I personally am done posting anywhere the lead doesn’t use his real name. This is not a game.
http://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=105291&page=3
I believe Fred Scrooby’s story.
It is perfectly possible for Jewish people to join anti-Jewish movements and ideologies. Look at Bobby Fischer, Daniel Burros, Frank Collin (Jewish dad, not considered a Jew), Jews who convert to Islam, individual Jews in Hitler’s army (this is a fact, but I believe in the holocaust).
“Alex Linder wants to aide the federal authorities by making it compulsory for VNN posters to give their true identities. ”
And he’ll do it. People are naive if they think otherwise.
Not necessarily give it to feds but he’ll out prozium if he can.
One way to detect a bottom-feeder and mental defective of the VNN variety is when they claim that staking an anti-Semitic position equals strength and accuse one of effeminacy, if one isn’t anti-Semitic. Of course, one could reply that being called a pussy by a pseudonym is laughable in itself. Anti-Semitism is in point of fact a sign of weakness, a character flaw, a revolt of the subterranean man.
Linder is going to seriously regret not taking my advice. I’m being criticized over at VNN Forum for my reaction to Jim Giles! In the interview, I emphatically said that I didn’t endorse the shit that Giles and Linder were pushing. I said time and again that it was evil and immoral.
The next day, I posted the above, condemned both of them, cut ties with both of them. That was the proper reaction. These last two broadcasts have proven that beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Jim Giles is either 1.) an agent provocateur like Hal Turner or 2.) a psycho inciting others to commit murder on internet radio. He is either 1.) going down himself and taking others with him or 2.) encouraging others to do something illegal (at the suggestion of his handlers) to draw them out into the open.
[...] Wallace did an interview with Jim Giles on the 18th. On the 19th he posted a Mea Culpa… For a week or so now, I had been debating Alex Linder on various issues. I had been [...]
Grimoire is detached from reality and in Lahlahland. I’m talking about ways of achieving success in practical politics, he’s pretending to be Byron.
Let me be clear, I want Jews inside the tent. They can be an incredible asset and appeal to the eugenicist in me. They are a people of immense talent, energy, organization, skill, work ethic, determination, drive, intelligence…I want to extend my hand in genuine friendship and love and say: “I want you to work with me for a better future for us!” I want White Nationalism to not only include Jews, I want them at all levels of power and authority.
This has gone on long enough.
[...] Dissent, an interesting blogger, has recently learned that some of his white nationalist fellow travelers are nasty people, devoid of [...]