Are Jews White? III

The third installment in the Ted Sallis vs. Guy White debate. – Hunter Wallace

Ted Sallis:

Guy White (as well as his mixed race fellows “won over” to his blog) are at it again.

First, some minor points.
a. I am not an “AS” (”anti-Semite”). Actually, I believe Guy White to be a vicious, Jew hating anti-Semite since, like “ASs” the world over, he wishes to deny to the Ashkenazim their objectively determined lineage. My own views on the issue is somewhere in between Jared Taylor and, say, Hunter Wallace. However, I’m not going to accept people lying about the science.

b. The issue about the Berbers was simply to demonstrate that Guy White is silly and ignorant. Admittedly, that’s sort of ad hominem but richly deserved.

c. [this also applies to other forums, see below] I’m not interested in debating definitions of “white.” I am interesting in genetic relatedness, race, and the political implications of racial and ethnic genetics. People can define “white” however they wish. That’s not going to change the genetic facts.

d. Guy White claims he never said that Jews were “identical” to Europeans. Yes, indeed, he never used the word “identical.” Instead, he showed global genetic analyses in which the Ashkenazim were “smack dab” in the middle of the European cluster. You figure out what he wanted to suggest with that.

e. Is he going to admit being wrong about the Fst issue? Are Jews as close to Germans as are SE Europeans/Romanians? What about the Middle Eastern mixture issue? If an Iraqi marries a European and has an offspring, is the offspring European?

f. Now to his outright distortions of my views:

The only people whose DNA is identical are identical twins. Even though, my brothers and I have the same parents, we are genetically distinguishable. That doesn’t mean that we belong to different races.

Who said it did? Talk about a strawman. But this argument of Guy White and his hybridized followers can go too far. Gee, your brother and you are not identical and you are not different races. A Dane and a Nigerian are also not identical, so…

See next. It is relative genetic distance.

If you wanted to deal with clusters, my brothers will cluster closer to me than my cousins. Again, this doesn’t mean that we belong to different races.

Did I ever say differently? The issue is of relative distance? As in negro>chinaman>south asian>arab>ASHKENAZIM>ROMANIAN>GERMAN>random englishman>englishman’s (unmixed english) cousin>englishman’s brother

You can draw the line of “white” or “race” where you want there, it doesn’t change the data.

Before we start delving into genetic studies, we must establish what we are talking about here.

We are talking about how you, your mixed race followers, delusional Marxists, and others either do not understand current population genetics data and/or distort those data for their own agendas.

The first level of human division is race. Then ethnicity. And so on until we get to individual differences.

Gee, no kidding. Did you think that all up yourself?

It is obviously false to say, as Ted Sallis alleges, that all people of the same race are the same, and those who aren’t identical are of a different race.

Gee, who is paraphrasing the other person now? At least when I do so, I am honest, unlike the liar Guy White. I invite the reader to go back to my original essay as well as the cuckoldry article at TOO. I openly state that of course different types of Europeans are different from each other. And for godssakes, if I comment on Fst differences within Europe, obviously the peoples are not identical. Where and when did I say all people of the same race are identical?

Note to Guy White: I know more about this than you do.

As regards comments made on this issue at comments threads on other forums, they are not even worth answering.

What I wrote:
No one can deny that different European groups — even closely related and geographically-near ethnies — can be genetically distinguished from each other. Modern genetic analyses can do this, and future, more fine-grained methodologies will perform even better to make these distinctions.

Guy White:
It is obviously false to say, as Ted Sallis alleges, that all people of the same race are the same…

Guy White: Liar or cognitively impaired (or both).

I am also not sure why Guy White is so hysterical on this issue (assuming for the moment that he is pro-Jewish and not a crazed anti-Semite).

With respect to Taylor’s views on the “JQ” as expressed in the Giles interview (and commented on by Mr. Wallace on his own blog) I am agnostic. I certainly do not reject the viewpoint out of hand. Some of it makes sense. However, I do not wholly accept it either; my mind is not made up on the subject.

This is, however, a different issue than “White Advocate’s” insistence – and (his denials to the contrary) Guy White’s agreement – on the proposition that the Ashkenazim are just another European ethnic group.

Are the Ashkenazim European in the same sense European gentile groups are? Current data suggest “no” – but if this changes then my opinion will certainly follow where the findings lead. Are the Ashkenazim – as Guy White justifiably points out – genetically close to Europeans? Yes, there are. Are they “white?” That is a matter of opinion. Whether the Ashkenazim (or any other group) are, or are not, “white” is not something that can be determined solely by rational objectivity. It is to a large extent a matter of opinion, and I see it as a waste of time to debate inclusion/exclusion to vague categories that are defined to a large extent by personal opinion. Other categories of continental identity, genetic distance, ancestry, and – more subjectively I admit – civilizational affiliation (e.g., “western”) are easier to define and discern.

Do I agree with and support the work of Kevin MacDonald? Yes I do; I find it absolutely convincing, with great explanatory power. MacDonald’s work is of fundamental importance in understanding the modern world and the current dire situation of the West.

Can MacDonald’s work be reconciled with Taylor’s view as expressed to Giles? Possibly, dependent upon whether Jews realize that the destruction of the West and of Europeans is not in their interest and whether they are willing to genuinely assimilate into “Euro-America.” These are issues of concern for those who support Jewish inclusion; instead of lying about the opinions of individuals trying to set the record straight on the science, I’d advise the likes of White/Advocate/Jobling et al to try and alter the opinions and viewpoints of Jews toward Europeans, the West, and assimilation (for the latter: Guy White, meet Elliot Abrams).

This would seem to be an excellent topic for Prof. Hart’s next conference.

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36 Responses to Are Jews White? III

  1. Iceman says:

    lol.

    http://www.freemediaproductions.info/Editorials/2009/12/07/jw-hollidays-ocean-analogy-counterargument/

    Europeans have middle eastern genetic foundations. Southern Europeans still appear Mediterranean. It isn’t until Northern Europe that the Med/Alpine appearance becomes common, though of course terms like “nordic” and “alpine” are not scientific (but Mediterranean is scientific). That is because Northern Europeans were genetically isolated in India for part of history and then re-entered Europe. But Italians, Greeks, Spaniards etc. are still visually Middle Eastern even though of course genetically distinguishable.

    The argument that the Caucasoid race was created in Europe, and then the Middle East racially mixed with Negroids to get darker is laughable. So since I’ve established a Middle Eastern origin for Southern Europe, not to mention a Middle Eastern religious heritage (Christianity), the Jewish more recent link to the Middle East from comes from the same gene pool (Northern Middle East) that the Greeks, Romans and Italians came from. Not to mention, European admixture in managed quantities occurred. Not to mention, Basques and Finns cluster further outside than Jews do.

    Not to mention, WNs shit themselves to say that the Egyptians were White. Well guess what, Jews cluster far closer to Europe than Egyptians who cluster even further away than Arabs. Are all Middle Easterners white? Of course not, there is racial mixture there just like there is racial mixture in Europe. But the idea that whiteness and caucasoidness are biologically different concepts has no scientific credibility.

    It’s just a joke to debate with this guy.

  2. I’ve been away for about a week, and I regret that I’ve missed so many good discussions here.

    Jews are not ‘White’ as the term ‘White’ (in the USA) relates to Northern/Northwestern Europeans, or ‘Nordics’ if you prefer, and also what some refer to as ‘Celts’ from the British Isles — Jews are Caucasoids of course, but they are not ‘White’ (in American parlance) because, to restate the facts, the word ‘White’ in the USA typically refers to people of Northern/Northwestern European or what is sometimes called ‘Nordic’ descent.

    Jews are very recent immigrants to Europe, having been there for only around 1,500 years or so (maybe a bit longer in parts of Arabized Iberia) — the origins of the Ashkenazim, who are often considered the ‘Whitest Jews’ when compared to the Sephardim, Mizrahim, etc, are of even more recent and obscure genesis in Europe, no reliable records of them in Europe until around 1,000 years ago where they arrived in Northern and Central Europe as ‘super gypsy’ stragglers, wanderers, petty traders, traveling merchants (the first ‘door-to-door salesmen’?), shopkeepers (if they were lucky), homeless bums (‘luftmenschen’), expellees, usurers (later on), carnies, rag and trinket peddlers, etc, during the last gasp of the Late Roman Empire — the economic and power vacuum left by the decaying Roman Empire is what led to the rise of Jewry in Europe because they filled that socioeconomic vacuum related to long-distant trading and economics. During Jesus’ time and before the ancient Romans were actually considered the ‘Jews of the Near East’ because they controlled a lot of trade, international networks, military power, and so on over the lowly Jewish masses of Palestine. Anyhow, over a period of centuries the very nepotistic economic and trade networks of these new Jews in Europe, which were modeled on traditional Near Eastern (NOT EUROPEAN) extended family and ethnic ties, grew larger and larger and they eventually came to disproportionately dominate in certain sectors of international trading, shipping, caravans, etc because of their wide and distant contacts with other international Jews – by the time modernity (the 19th/20th/21st Centuries) rolled around they were ahead of other groups in terms of tight-knit nepotistic international business and socioeconomic contacts, hence their current predominance in some areas. However, according to many scholars the true ‘Golden Age’ of diaspora Jewry actually occurred amongst the Sephardics between about 500-1500 AD in Iberia, Italy, and other Mediterranean nations – the Ashkenazics are apparently late-comers to the diaspora Jewish game, since the Sephardim actually far outnumbered the Ashkenazim until the early 1700s or so. Since the end of the Jewish diaspora High Culture circa 1500 (expulsions from Spain/Portugal) Jews have been nothing more than parasitic ‘piggy backers’ on the coat-tails of The West, stealing White genes (and money too, of course) when they could to keep them afloat and up-to-par in a civilizational sense. Spengler has a good overview of this in his DECLINE: read the section ‘Jewry’ from Spengler’s DECLINE OF THE WEST: Volume II, Chapter IX: “Problems of the Arabian Culture: (C) Pythagoras, Mohammed, Cromwell” – http://www.scribd.com/doc/4654389/Decline-of-the-West-Volume-II-Perspectives-of-World-by-Oswald-Spengler

    This post is rambling and disorganized, but to recap Jews are not ‘White’ in American terms because in the USA ‘White’ traditionally refers to people of Northern, Northwestern, or Nordic ethno-racial descent (and also what is sometimes called ‘Celtic’ descent from the British Isles). As I wrote above, the Ashkenazim are very recent interlopers in to Europe from distant Near Eastern lands, even though some of them have picked up or stolen (Jewish gene-theft) quite a bit of ‘White’ or Northern European DNA from their long period of wandering, mercantilism, rootlessness, and parasitism in Europe.

  3. Sam Davidson says:

    It’s funny how we intellectualize this issue. I don’t need a genetic study to confirm my belief that this person is of different stock than myself:

    http://incogman.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/tamarrjacoby.jpg

  4. Metal Gear says:

    Seriously, you guys can argue whatever you’d like to, but at least admit that history is what it is. You can change the future. You can’t change the past.

    American law has never distinguished between Nords and Meds and when it has discriminated against Jews in universities, never labeled Jews as non-White. Analogously, the Irish were discriminated against in Business but never considered “non-white” meaning categorized with the Blacks instead of Whites in Jim Crow legislation American law discriminated by nationality. Yes it has argued for nationality imposed quotas to limit immigration in 1924, but no law ever said Nordics are particularly more White than other Whites. Even before 1960, the children of Slaves were citizens but not equal in every right, which allowed for Black immigration in small quantities.

    I’m not disagreeing that Northwestern Europeans are the founding element of the Republic although certainly British have some Mediterranean elements, they aren’t pure nords. I’m disagreeing that the definition of White was ever anything but defined in contrast to Blacks, Indians and Mongols.

  5. Z.O.G. says:

    Who let the dogs out?

    :lol:

  6. Z.O.G. says:

    I was referring to the illegal alien Mestizo advocate Jewess Tamar Jacoby.

  7. Why not a socially or behaviorally determined analysis? Here’s a possible way to distinguish among the peoples.

    The diverse white American peoples are those who do not defame the diverse white American peoples.

    The culture of critique (really a campaign of defamation) clearly excludes anyone we would want to associate with in our organizations, including those who might be genetically related but committed to our destruction by implementing cultural tools to silence us.

    And I hope our future organizational aspirations will place the freedom of association very high indeed among our protected rights and privileges.

  8. Armor says:

    ” tamarrjacoby.jpg “

    She looks somewhat like Melanie Phillips.

  9. OldRight says:

    Metal Gear
    American law has never distinguished between Nords and Meds and when it has discriminated against Jews in universities, never labeled Jews as non-White.

    And just look what happened to America as a result. America is a model of how not to deal with the jewish problem.

  10. Wikitopian says:

    I don’t care to debate with either Guy White or Ted Sallis. As Hunter has shown time and time again, Guy is congenitally incapable of developing an honest perspective on the scope and nature of Jewish influence on Western Civilization. He lands some blows at character defects common among anti-Semites but his refusal to seriously confirm the scope of Jewish power is both sad and implies deceptive intent to me (I’m not accusing, mind you).

    As for Ted, there’s a real lack of sobriety and discipline in both formulating his conclusions and protecting his conclusions from honest critique. He did a similar thing he’s doing here to the multiple people who offered alternative perspectives on his recent Racial Cuckoldry, Racial Mimickry article. He posted a follow-up in which he constructed simplistic strawman parodies of our critiques, then dismissed them condescendingly.

    For the record, Ted, I never said “Only apperance matters.” I accused you of confusing the interface with the implementation. The accusation still stands uncontested.

    Perhaps Ted could name a single non-White population which is more related to Whites than Jews are related to Whites? Perhaps Guy could name a single White population which is less related to the Irish than Jews?

  11. Robert Campbell says:

    FB,

    In the “My Awakening” thread, you said that Richard McCulloch considers Ashkenazi Jews to be Nordish. I did not get a chance to reply before Hunter locked it, and I don’t want to unlock it and start that nonsense up again, but I think I should clarify that point. Richard McCulloch does not consider Ashkenazi to be Nordish. Here is what it says on his web site:

    “Extra-territorial non-indigenous European ethnic groups:

    Jews — Divided into Ashkenazic, Sephardic and Oriental branches. All trace their pre-Diaspora (the dispersion of Jews outside of Israel) origins to the ancient Hebrews, who originally belonged to the Orientalid or Arabid subrace of the Mediterranid race. It is likely that by the beginning of the Diaspora they were already hybridized with Armenid elements. Racially, the Diaspora is largely a history of further hybridization with the populations of the different regions in which the various Jewish groups resided. The modern Ashkenazic branch associated with eastern Europe, by far the most numerous, is a primarily Armenid blend including lesser elements of Orientalid, Turanid, Ladogan, Alpine, Dinaric and Nordish origin. The Sephardic branch is primarily an Orientalid-Armenid blend hybridized with West Mediterraneans. The Oriental branch remains basically true to the pre-Diaspora type.”

    Source: http://www.racialcompact.com/nordishrace.html

    While certain Ashkenazi Jews are certainly Central Nordish in phenotype (Paltrow, whom you cited, is a good example), they are not considered to be part of the Central Nordish racial core.

  12. Marwinsing says:

    “Are Jews White? III”
    Who cares. Any chimpanzee with half a brain cell would tell you that the above is not important. The real problem with whites is the internal war between the sexes. Jew-instigated or not, therein lies our problem. Now I beg someone here on this forum to prove me wrong.

  13. Kasimir Petrenkov says:

    “Europeans have middle eastern genetic foundations. Southern Europeans still appear Mediterranean. It isn’t until Northern Europe that the Med/Alpine appearance becomes common, though of course terms like “nordic” and “alpine” are not scientific (but Mediterranean is scientific). That is because Northern Europeans were genetically isolated in India for part of history and then re-entered Europe. But Italians, Greeks, Spaniards etc. are still visually Middle Eastern even though of course genetically distinguishable.” – iceman

    Lol yourself, this is complete rubbish. The Aryans came from NW Eurasia, there was not one particular point where they all evolved. Only in the minds of historians do races just appear in some particular homeland. As for the “Aryans are from India” bullshit, you’ve been reading a bit too much Hindu nationalist propaganda, sir. And the middle eastern phenotype seen in Italy, Greece, Spain, etc comes from admixture from various periods over the last two millenia; those people were originally Aryan as I’ve pointed out already. I’ve even cited evidence on numerous occasions and yet you persist with these absurd tales.

    You’re just pulling this stuff out of a hat. Luckily the little science of genetics along with well-established anthropology and history denies your bizarre claims any credibility.

  14. AngryJew says:

    Please, please go out into the real world and do your homework. I ask you meet just some Berbers – and then quack about them being non-white!

    Everysingle berber I’ve ever met, was significantly whiter than Arabs. I have not met Taureg, or Sahelian Berbers – who are no doubt mixed.

    You cannot score on the berbers! You know not of what you speak.

  15. Iceman says:

    That’s actually not true. Italians and Greeks and Spainards look like Middle Easterners not because of admixture but because of their original orgins. This is proven.
    http://racialreality.110mb.com/

    The aryan languages were invented in Europe but the north-south genetic divide occurred because temporarily, tribes left Europe for India and selected for phenotype under a caste system and then returned to Europe. When they returned, they created the north-south divide.

  16. Mark says:

    Gwyneth is half Jewish, her mother being Central Nordish (Dutch). Her father was distinctly Jewish, albeit depigmented.

    http://www.funnyphotos.net.au/images/famous-celbrity-dads-bruce-paltrow.jpg

  17. Z.O.G. says:

    She looks somewhat like Melanie Phillips.

    No, she looks like an inbred rat. :D

  18. Chuck U. Farley77 says:

    “Now I beg someone here on this forum to prove me wrong. ”

    Read Otto Weininger.

    Jewishness and Femininity are two sides of the same coin!

    (The solution is for these two Archetypes to actively consciously decide to stop being negative forces in the Universe. Only when this has been done will Jews and Females be able to live in Harmony with Higher Aryan Man. )

  19. ATBOTL says:

    Iceman, your theories about the history of European people are ludicrously out of touch with reality. I suggest you do some reading on current genetic, linguistic and archeological findings.

  20. Z says:

    Jews are not a race, religion, ethnic group or even a tribe, but an international criminal syndicate, a ‘mestizo mafia’ of sorts, whose members are a genetic amalgamation of the nations of which they dwell in; of which there are plenty of ‘shabbos goy’ helpers and water boys to do their bidding.

    And when it comes to so-called “mischlinges”, the zionist-inspired ‘one-drop rule’ on Jewishness is utterly retarded.

    http://whitewraithe.wordpress.com/the-jews-are-not-a-race/

  21. Fred Scrooby says:

    #19: “Jewishness and Femininity are two sides of the same coin!”

    Chuck of course meant “Jewishness and Feminism.” That’s correct: they’re two sides of the same coin. Now, someone will come along and say, “Were that so, Jews who are the most Jewish would be the most ‘Feminist.’ But the most Jewish women, the Ultra-Orthodox, are the least ‘Feminist’ of Jewish women, in fact are among the least ‘Feminist’ of all women. They totally reject ‘Feminism.’ So that proves it’s not Jewishness that causes “Feminism” but something else. That something else is non-denominational liberalism.” What this argumentation ignores of course is that Jewishness is membership in the Jewish tribe whether religious or not, and there is more than ample documentary evidence that Jewishness so understood (i.e. membership in the tribe) and “Feminism” are indeed two sides of the same coin.

  22. Svigor says:

    This is the sort of thing that pisses me off about Amren’s editorial policy:

    The reason why blacks hate whites has absolutely nothing to do with the past. Blacks hate whites for the same reason Nazis hated Jews. They were too successful which made Nazis jealous.

    (Black Gangs Vented Hatred for Whites in Downtown Attacks)

    That made it through, but you can bet your ass my response won’t:

    Since you’re drawing parallels between blacks and Nazis, allow me to draw some between blacks and Jews. Neither whites nor Nazis freak out if blacks or Jews or anyone else don’t want to live around them. But blacks and Jews freak out if whites don’t want to live around them; they have in common a strong compulsion to live around whites, a compulsion not returned by whites.

    Steve Sailer’s blog has a far less Judeophilic editorial policy than Amren’s.

    Taylor kisses Jewish ass. If that’s not his intent then he’s utterly incompetent at hiring. But obviously it is his intent. Why doesn’t he just forbid such Judeophilic WN-baiting?

  23. Svigor says:

    In all fairness I should add that Sailer, whose editorial policy I consider to be moderate (he lets quite a bit through but censors a lot too), seems to consider this parallel radioactive as he’s refused to post it the many times I’ve used it to respond to the “WNs as jealous niggers” argument; he did post it once, when I added a question as to why it’s beyond the Pale to respond in kind.

  24. I don’t think knocking Jared Taylor and Amren is a good idea. Our energies are much better spent in creating alternatives like TOQ Online and The Occidental Observer that openly discuss the Jewish Question in a reasonable and measured way.

  25. AngryJew says:

    What makes me an Angry Jew?

    The gibberish about “Aryans”. Please dig your head out of your…what century are you living in?

    “Aryans”? Nordics?

    Who the hell are Nordics?

    Half of the Eurasian steppe is littered with remnants of Scythians six feet tall 200 pounds, blond and red haired. They would have spoken a language a modern Iranian could understand. A good number of Nordics I’ve met had eye slits! The Runes you find in Germany are equally found in Central Asia. The “anglo-saxons” are thoroughly mixed with Celtcs, and a great deal of English DNA is Iberian – i.e. so that the UK as a whole is in between Berber and Nordic.

    If you want to define white in an exclusive way – well then fight for Aryan rights, not White rights. If you cannot see the difference, well then you’ve just proven that Race is a construct, you are clueless about genetics (other than what you parrot), and that your IQ is quite low.

    If you do fight for Aryan rights, remember one thing sweetie – Scandinavia was a dirt-poor hovel until about a 100 years back. You can’t name one significant intellectual of pure Aryan ancestry, and your contributions to civilization begin and stop with Lego bricks.

    Oh, and another thing, Aryan rights will be about as anti-White, as La Raza. So you’re going to have some serious problems.

  26. Svigor says:

    Normally I’d agree but I’d like to see an end to his tolerance of judeophilic WN-baiting. If someone can explain to me the tactical value to us of Amren allowing judeophilic WN-baiting, but not allowing responses, I’d change my mind.

  27. Tanstaafl says:

    Diversity Digest | Volume 10, Number 2 | Complicating Diversity Categories: Jewish Identity in the Classroom:

    Diversity educators often hear from Jewish students when talking about race that they do not see themselves as “white,” but rather as “Jews.” In keeping with this self-identification, Jews should be understood as a distinctive identity group which is often described using racialized language.

  28. danielj says:

    What makes me an Angry Jew?

    So… We know what makes you angry now, but what makes you a “Jew” exactly? What makes you such a pure breed?

  29. Fred Scrooby says:

    “Diversity educators often hear from Jewish students when talking about race that they do not see themselves as ‘white,’ but rather as ‘Jews.’ In keeping with this self-identification, Jews should be understood as a distinctive identity group which is often described using racialized language.” ( — quoted in Tanstaafl’s comment)

    This revelation of course supports the contention that all these non-stop post-Jewish-Revolt (i.e., post-Sixties) attacks on “whites” by all these Jews (non-stop verbal attacks, non-stop political attacks, non-stop legistlative attacks, etc.) aren’t what they’re implicitly and explicitly billed as and what many believe they are, namely “attacks on whites by generic white liberals who are attacking themselves, actually attacking their own group, out of a highly laudable sense of fairness and justice toward non-white groups.” No. That’s not what they are.

    Rather, they are merely an age-old phenomenon known as tribal warfare, in this case launched by Jews against Eurochristians, a tribe they loathe with a passion and actually want removed from the world or at the very least drastically reduced in number and strength and otherwise kept weak and suppressed.

    Very simply that, and not the other, is what these fifty last years and more of Jewish attacks have been in reality.

    In attacking “whites” Jews these past fifty years most definitely were NOT attacking themselves — most definitely NOT attacking Jews. The Sixties were, in other words, and the aftermath of the Sixties (which is what we’re in) have been, simply identical in essence to the Hutus attacking the Watusis and vice-versa in Rwanda. In essence, no difference between the two.

    It’s that simple.

  30. Z says:

    What makes me an Angry Jew?

    The gibberish about “Aryans”. Please dig your head out of your…what century are you living in?

    “Aryans”? Nordics?

    Who the hell are Nordics?
    __

    Better question: (Drum roll…)

    WHAT EXACTLY THE HELL ARE “SEMITES”???

    You dare mock us when it is the ‘Jews’ (some of the most mixed-race people in the world) who are even more loopy when it comes to all matters racial and ancestral, and often outright make stuff up when it comes to questions of biology and geneology.

    Like the way you all fancy yourselves as both White Europeans *and* as the, putatively, unmixed descendants of the ancient Hebrews.

    Yeah.

  31. Grimoire says:

    Start with this: “The aryan languages were invented in Europe but the north-south genetic divide occurred because temporarily, tribes left Europe for India and selected for phenotype under a caste system and then returned to Europe. When they returned, they created the north-south divide.”

    And on what is this based on? Your best guess? Stab in the dark? You know nothing about the Aryans – why do you write about them?
    These comments are so ignorant I feel embarrassed to read them.

    Read of the ‘Migration’ sagas, of which describes the cyclical migrations of the Visigoths, the Ostrogoths and the Gepeidai (The western Goths, the Eastern Goths and the Stragglers). Perhaps this is based on a reality and not a fantasy.
    The idea the Aryans would go east as a single tribe, and then come back later is the most retarded thing I’ve heard ever. Not one document in the world to support this….Things in the world don’t happen this way. The discontented go off seeking plunder and the established stay home and protect the wealth and the women. Perhaps you should learn something about the Aryans.

    After about the thousandths of brain dead posts about Jews not being white here and by Guy Waterhead. . You talk like you’ve never seen a Jew except on nazi TV.
    Jews are so intermingled with whites they are white – get used to it.
    Anyone who can’t see that better have an excuse of never having met a Jew, or ‘white’ means a special card you must have signed and carry in your wallet, or else you have got some serious IQ or perceptual problems – you are a retard – don’t waste your time with Jews – your going to have a hard enough time negotiating with life.

    How do you think there is profit to be gained by ignorance? Your movement is advanced by idiocy and not the firm grasp of reality? Or is white nationalism just complaining, hating and making shit up?

    And this shit about the mid east clusters haplotypes of ashkenazim? You think that Khazar stuff is made up? – EVER HEAR OF F’ING BOOKS? – TRY ENCLOPEDIA JUDAICA – OR ANY ENCYCLOPEDIA. Like a pre 1950 Encyclopedia Brittanica . Gather a few CLUES before you embarrass yourself in front of the world. Do you realize lots of people can read this and make accurate deduction as to the enormity of your ignorance?

    Forget about trying to appear smart blathering about Genetics. You make the assumption that because it sounds imposing and scientific…any palaver you generate is ironclad and only fools mock your theories. Well your theories are not even good enough be considered something to laugh at. Stop watching tv and start reading book to learn how to think. Science is full of shit because too many people are twisting it to mean something it doesn’t – with something like genome theory – it stretches right back to the original interpolations – can you not learn to have some fking dignity? Dignity and dignified inquiry is 100000x more effective than this juvenile making up of shit. Genetic theory based on the human genome is in it’s utter infancy and is riddled with errors due to idiots whether with a doctorate or simply a internet account making shit up to suit what they would like to see.

    @AngryJew

    Angry, sly, but equally stupid – your a stupid jew – you have curiosity or else why would you be here? – still as much an idiot as the most idiotic post in this thread, you and your family should be packing your bags,,,,,because your future is not too bright.

    To answer your distortions

    Half the Eurasian steppe is littered with the genetic remnants of Aryans because they went out plundering continental EurAsia . The same as the early Kelts, the later Mongols and the Turkics .
    Scythia, or Scythians is a dead concept, not a living concept – a perceptual fossil of the Mediterranean world that could be describing any number of unrelated tribes at different times inhabiting the area above parthia, Your use of the word seems clever, but it is only the superficial ‘cleverness’. The use of the word Scythian is the gambit of someone who wants to use an unfixed, dead term to distort reality. But you don’t say what you want to say, you just indicate towards it…..did you mean that aryan blood is mixed with other blood? Or is derived from other mixed blood? Is this a prize for you if the obvious is omitted or is it a prize only if you can direct an exaggeration by means of the obvious? You should make your point, your argument is defeated by your own cowardice.

    That the tribe of the Rus came out of what is known now as Scandinavia and swept down in cyclical waves of settlement to the black sea, becoming European Russia has been known for more than two thousand years….so the ancient scythians are Scandinavians? Or are they Kelts? Everything you assert doesn’t at all mean what you believe it means. You don’t have a clue what you are talking of.

    Your point about the Scythians speaking a language the Iranian might understand, is not a point at all. It is the interpolation of someone who knows next to nothing. If the inference is that they were Iranian, or early avestanian, simple common sense tells us it would be vastly different than Persian or Pashto. If the inference is that the Scythian was Aryan, and thus Iranian, perhaps, but you don’t make this point – you make an inference that the languages are the same. First – there is no fixed knowledge of Scythia or it’s language to make such a assumption. I have read Herodotus, Strabo and Diodorus, and you quite plainly, have not. You talk like you had some short conversation with a few Scythians and then made some sensible inferences and this led you to the obvious conclusions.

    What we see instead is your mind is as polluted by Jewish degradation of knowledge. It causes you to believe if you make something up and convince others, then it is true. Who’s to say otherwise? The point is moral, not historical. Like everything you approach.
    What is worse is I believe you are as convinced yourself, This is not an honest attempt to deceive, because you weren’t aware of any intent, being equally deceived.
    I’m disappointed Jew. I known a lot of Jews, so I expected you to be better.

    As for the rest of your argument, they are just indications of something you want to suggest and not constructions of any substance.
    As for your distortions regarding Scandinavia. There is not one point you make that is not just wrong as a fact, but also wrong concerning the indication of what you wanted to say. Scandinavia is just one part of a whole, and has never indicated otherwise that Scandanavia is the seat of the aryans or anything.
    The Scandinavia’s are just a part of a whole, they are the tribes of the Dragons head (the meaning of the word Scandinavia, meaning the cartographic symbol of the isthmus of Norway But just looking at Scandanavians, they had agriculture, smelting and had bronzed weapons, money, barter, small towns, a unified conception of the cosmos based on rational, a future looking mythos and culture- before jews even existed. You were a fucking collection of cannibal savages living off the garbages dumps of the great civilizations of the world. Slaves,bandits, robbers and outcasts. The original rag pickers. There is a myriad of evidence the great civilizations of the world were started by these wretched Scandinavians as you refer to them. You were nothing and never have been anything but a parasite. And the weapons that made you significant have all been ignoble and shunned by every other people.
    As for you statement as to the poverty of Scandanavia 100 years ago. You are completely ignorant of this land and people? You just make things up like others here. No contribution to science by aryans? You are maybe a precocious 15 year old?
    Or are you in israel? Are you one of those morons paid to hang out in wN sites and demonstrate how stupid jews are so you can raise wNationals esteem?

    I think you partially believe what you say. I expect more from a Jew. You are not a worthy adversary. And this is sad because many people have been saying this to me and I refused to believe it. I have known so many intellectually formidable and cognitively supple jews. Lately I have noticed this absorption of European culture has worn off and the best of you are only disloyal Americans, the worse of you are pig ignorant Israelis.
    You have been as affected by the poison you spread for the gentiles, as the gentiles themselves. You are another indication of this.
    Not the first I’ve seen of this

    This bodes very poorly for you, because the Aryans’ depth of resources is far from spent by your shadow, Many here are not truly Aryan in race,outlook or consciousness, but I am.
    I think you jews didn’t realize the degeneration you caused would be a race to the bottom. And you would have no choice but to participate. What people have been saying is that you are tiring far faster than the Aryan. This is what i expected, and you are another example of this. There was a time not too long ago no jew would demonstrate his ignorance so openly. But today they do everywhere. No young german is as ignorant, or would display such ignorance. This bodes very bad for the jew.

    Let me give you some friendly advice Angry Jew. And it is friendly because I don’t hate jews like my other post indicate. I just want you gone from my lands forever. And i regret this because I admire and appreciate the Jews very deeply. It’s just that your fate is to be born as a parasite nation under a Demon god and you bring the curse of evil to any society you inhabit. This is cruel fate , it is inhumane to exile such a talented people who contain the epitome of so many of the most valued virtues of a people. There are so many things that the European really could learn from you. But it is beyond human ability to know how to deal with, or lift the curse from off you.
    So my advice……If you going to post in a wN site – don’t do as others, bring credit to your race or people or construct if you prefer – the Jews. And not shame with asinine arguments. Even your enemy expects more of you.

    Race is a construct. I agree as to the term, not the meaning. Race is a construct of genetic inheritance, native soil, history, language, culture and civilization and much that is intangible, but the most essential element to human development. This is the meaning of Race, the cradle of human advancement. It is a construct that is the center of all human experience….it is the construct that at it’s most basic and minor level occurs when man and a woman live together to raise and educate children. Then pass on their knowledge, their lands and their heritage to the next generation, but on a macro level this is Race. Race is the generator of civilization and human progress.

    The reason why it is so essential for western man to rid himself of the Jewish influence is the irony that while you jews are the originators and conceivers of the ‘Race is a construct’ poison, which in your meaning means Race is a barrier to human advancement…. meant to arrest and stagnate human progress while you sink your poisoned claws deeper into the fissures you’ve created to destroy the family, the nation and race and all things best described as the cradle of civilizations…………….. you claim it is for the freedom and advancement of all mankind…….The irony is you jews are the best example of the refutation of ‘Race is a construct’. Everything your are you owe to the mixture of creed and blood…..your creed is your ‘religion’ and both are your soil.

    And the assumption that by this means you would escape the degeneration you cause is something so oblivious to reality, to use a mediaeval phrase ‘ inspired by demons’ You do not see the certainty that you will be consumed in the same degeneration you imagine was designed for others.

  32. Grimoire says:

    @Angry Jew:
    Reread your post and realize you are an Israeli. I would have wasted far less words on you. Before I thought you were young and read a lot of jewbooks with your talk of scythians and white berbers. But no, your an Israeli and just very stupid. I’ve worked with a lot of Israeli ex military (diving) and you are all tremendously stupid. but sure of yourselves. Are you on a professional incursion or why are you here?

  33. Armor says:

    F.Scrooby: “In attacking “whites” Jews these past fifty years most definitely were NOT attacking themselves — most definitely NOT attacking Jews.”

    Proof of that is their activism and propaganda “against antisemitism”, against free speech, and about “the holocaust”. No one is less open to critique than they are.

    The Jewish discourse: “We white people” are the cancer of humanity… And anyone, among us white people, who says a word against Jews, must be severely punished.

  34. Ted Sallis is a quack.

  35. http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/06/03/the-dna-of-abraham-s-children.html

    Aside from the fact that in my opinion, the population of Palestine is “white” mainly (except for any negroid elements), Just mixed at high level during the Roman Empire then continued to mix at lower levels during their stay in Eastern Europe. So in my opinion, Jews are not only White from the standpoint of being similar to Europeans, but they’ve mixed with Europeans too.

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