Liberal Race Realism

Robert Lindsay is still trying to bake his political cake out of incompatible ingredients: a dash of race realism, positive white racial identity, the leftist view of American history, anti-racism, and a base of liberalism. Needless to say, this unusual combination is almost never found on sale. His brand of race realism rules out about “95% of the pro-White crowd.” It’s probably more than that, really.

Which is odd. Lindsay has attracted many racialist readers (myself included) with his incisive observations. His blog entries have been featured on Amren. He is very fascinated with the pro-white scene and writes about it quite regularly. We agree on many points and matters of fact, but tend to draw different conclusions. I don’t sense any duplicity in his writings that wafts off the likes of Lawrence Auster (Jew) or Ian Jobling.

In this post, Lindsay again talks about his anecdotal experience with the liberal stratum of White Californians and reiterates his often stated view that White Nationalism is simply impossible in America. I don’t believe his sweeping conclusions are warranted by the sample size he is using.

Here in the South, I find most people around my age to be either “casual racists” or otherwise receptive to racialism. These people have never heard of White Nationalism. They tend to be uninterested in politics. Most are thinly Protestant Christians (rarely attend church). None are haunted by any sense of guilt over the Holocaust, Jim Crow, slavery, extermination of the Indians, oppression of women, etc. Most hold at least negative views about negroes, illegal immigration, and affirmative action.

There is no organization on the ground trying to recruit them to White Nationalism. Instead, the movement is bottled up in cyberspace. Perhaps it will remain there indefinitely. Maybe that will change.

I would wager that White Nationalism has a better chance of breaking out into the mainstream (in the South) than Lindsay’s version of race realism. These days liberalism and racialism are mutually exclusive. Racialists don’t have much use for the Left and tend to jettison its neurotic obsessions with racism, feminism, homophobia, political correctness, all its talk about “freedom” and “equality,” and so on. Liberals don’t have any use for white racial consciousness (except in the negative sense), immigration restriction, opposition to affirmative action and multiculturalism, or any of ideas that animate White Nationalists.

After 1965, there is no longer any middle ground between the two. Whether it be neocon race realism (Jobling) or liberal race realism (Lindsay), I don’t see much of an audience for a third way.

About the Author

Hunter Wallace
Founder and Editor-in-Chief of Occidental Dissent

50 Comments on "Liberal Race Realism"

  1. Trainspotter | July 2, 2009 at 9:58 pm |

    Just read the Lindsay piece. Basically, it seems to boil down to an attempt to save the multiracial cesspool from its own contradictions. By opposing “racism against whites,” additional cover is provided for the cesspool, a vain attempt to give the system more legitimacy.

    Nice try Robert, but no thanks. And even if you got some juice for the “We Want and Love Multiracialism, But… ” crowd, how you gonna stop all of the rapes? The murders? The dispossession? The ultimate extinction?

    Answer: you can’t. You know you can’t. And you don’t remotely care that you can’t. You are just trying to provide cover for the horrors perpetuated by the current system. That’s the real difference between us and you Robert, we care about these things. You don’t. Not only do you not offer a solution, you instead offer red herrings in order to distract from a solution.

    We white nationalists, on the other hand, have a real solution. It’s called the ethnostate. Each people controls its own institutions and its own destiny. If some countries want to be mixed, then so be it. Why does this strike you as so unjust?

    Having said all of that, I’ll at least congratulate Robert on some interesting writing. For a leftist, anyway.

  2. And even if you got some juice for the “We Want and Love Multiracialism, But… ” crowd, how you gonna stop all of the rapes? The murders? The dispossession? The ultimate extinction?

    I can’t stop the murders and the rapes. The dispossession? Well, I want to ship the illegals out of here. And I want to at least open up a debate about whether or not diversity is our strength and to have a debate where we ask US Whites whether they want to go from a majority to a minority.

    Whites ought to be able to debate this question. If most Whites don’t mind dispossession, fine, go on with it. But let’s at least have the debate. I also want to cut legal immigration by about 70%. As far as the ultimate extinction goes, personally, I don’t give a damn, so it’s not an issue. Most Whites I talk to around start laughing if you bring up White extinction.

    And you don’t remotely care that you can’t.

    It’s not that I don’t care, it’s that there is not that much you can about a lot of this stuff.

    Not only do you not offer a solution, you instead offer red herrings in order to distract from a solution.

    Well, I am trying to appeal to that 73% of Whites I referred to in my piece. I think you guys have 5% support, max.

    We white nationalists, on the other hand, have a real solution. It’s called the ethnostate.

    I will grant you that.

    Why does this strike you as so unjust?

    I have problems with the motivations behind it. Everyone I have met who is pushing this seems to really hate non-Whites, most if not all of them. They push this because they hate them so much, they don’t want to have anything to do with them! They can’t stand to even be around them.

    Now, as an anti-racist, I find that motivation to be really upsetting. I’m out in public dealing with non-Whites and I think, wow, White nationalists hate this person so much they don’t even want to be anywhere near them. That really bothers me on moral level. It seems so messed up. But then, hey, I’m an anti.

    Further, White separatism is illegal. The vast majority of non-Whites will always oppose it, as they ought to, since they benefit from being around Whites. That leaves Whites. Now, when I bring up White separatism to the Whites I know, they act disturbed, then they usually start laughing. It’s regarded as preposterous.

    So I would wager that you have very little support for this – maybe 5% of the US population, and you need 51%, or probably even more to amend the damned Constitution. You simply do not have the numbers. So regardless of the validity of the project, it’s simply a loser with no probable prospects of success even in my lifetime.

  3. 1.) If 6 million Chinese wanted to move to Alabama, I would oppose that too. It is not because I have particular animosity towards the Chinese. I simply prefer to live amongst my own people.

    2.) I’m sure there are plenty of Chinese who are great people as individuals. I don’t mind the occasional diplomat, foreign exchange student, tourist, etc. I don’t have any problem judging others as individuals and as group members. It is irrational to pretend that people don’t have group identities in addition to their personal ones.

    3.) The same Whites who don’t care about their own extinction fret endlessly over whales and polar bears. Sounds ridiculous to me.

    4.) American Idol was also the most popular show of the past decade. I don’t really care what most whites think.

  4. Fred Scrooby | July 3, 2009 at 3:04 am |

    I have problems with the motivations behind it. Everyone I have met who is pushing this seems to really hate non-Whites, most if not all of them. They push this because they hate them so much, they don’t want to have anything to do with them! They can’t stand to even be around them. […] I find that motivation to be really upsetting. I’m out in public dealing with non-Whites and I think, wow, White nationalists hate this person so much they don’t even want to be anywhere near them. That really bothers me on moral level. It seems so messed up. ( — Robert Lindsay)

    Close your eyes and you could swear that was Silver talking. They have the exact same mentality on that.

    I want to at least open up a debate about whether or not diversity is our strength and to have a debate where we ask US Whites whether they want to go from a majority to a minority. Whites ought to be able to debate this question. If most Whites don’t mind dispossession, fine, go on with it. But let’s at least have the debate. ( — Robert Lindsay)

    Exactly right, and the ones most getting in the way of that debate taking place are precisely the Jews.

    Most Whites I talk to around here start laughing if you bring up White extinction. […] Now, when I bring up White separatism to the Whites I know, they act disturbed, then they usually start laughing. It’s regarded as preposterous.

    But what kind of whites hang around with Robert Lindsay?

    So regardless of the validity of the project, it’s simply a loser with no probable prospects of success even in my lifetime.

    That’s what they said about the fall of the Soviet Union, the reunification of Germany, the establishment of the State of Israel, and lots of other “impossibles.”

    The Jews went in forty-five years from a standing start to where they are now, having maneuvered the white race worldwide to the brink of extinction. What can be done can be undone.

  5. Trainspotter | July 3, 2009 at 3:41 am |

    “If most Whites don’t mind dispossession, fine, go on with it. But let’s at least have the debate.”

    Agreed, at least concerning the debate. However, I believe that I would go further. Even if most whites agreed with the dispossession (which they wouldn’t), I don’t know that I accept the right of one generation of people to marginalize all future white posterity. Fuck that. In any event, the issue is academic, because the system will not allow such a debate in honest and open terms. Why won’t they allow such a thing? The answer is obvious: no way would whites agree to be dispossessed. The system understands this, and will not allow a debate that it cannot win. If the white nationalist position were weak, the system would air it regularly so that it could be seen as the ludicrous position antis claim it is. It’s telling that they don’t do this, and you might want to consider the why of it all.

    “Most Whites I talk to around start laughing if you bring up White extinction.”

    You must be talking to a rather strange subset of whites. This is not the reaction I get at all. But no doubt white nationalism does seem strange to them, as it is contrary to the 24/7 propaganda that they have been subjected to for their entire lives. But the system knows full well that the strangeness would wear off quickly if white nationalism was to be freely aired. That’s why the system cannot allow it.

    In any event, those wacked out whites who find their people’s extinction a matter of sidesplitting humor are welcome to live in a mixed society. They are not welcome to force me to do the same. They are welcome to dissolve their own family bloodlines into the brown hordes. They are not welcome to force future generations of whites to live in such a society. They want Brazil? Fine. But don’t force me to live in Brazil. Surely you know, however, that the left gets a giddy and sick pleasure forcing this demographic change on the reluctant white population. They love it.

    “It’s not that I don’t care, it’s that there is not that much you can about a lot of this stuff.”

    There is: it’s called the ethnostate. It’s called self-determination. I realize that it’s a big leap, but there it is. Good fences make good neighbors, that kind of thing.

    “Now, as an anti-racist, I find that motivation to be really upsetting. I’m out in public dealing with non-Whites and I think, wow, White nationalists hate this person so much they don’t even want to be anywhere near them. That really bothers me on moral level. It seems so messed up. But then, hey, I’m an anti.”

    I don’t see this at all, or at least very little. Of all the white nationalists that I have known, or simply run of the mill racially aware whites, hardly any operate in the way you describe. Many, including myself, have non-whites in their social circle. It’s not a matter of hating non-whites, it’s a matter of seeing that the only way to preserve our people is to control our own institutions and have our own nations.

    I also don’t think that nationalists of other peoples have some extreme hatred against us. For example, I’m sure that a large portion of Japanese would vehemently oppose tens of millions of whites colonizing their country, and ultimately eclipsing them demographically. Does that mean that they have some sort of irrational, psychopathic hatred of me personally? Of course not. Robert, it ain’t personal. The left always pretends it’s personal and petty…but it ain’t.

    If I travelled to Japan tomorrow, I’m sure that I would be treated well. On the other hand, if tens of millions of whites poured into Japan to settle permanently, a different set of attitudes would certainly develop. And the reaction on the part of the Japanese would be perfectly normal and healthy, regardless of whether I as an individual am a nice guy who would be a productive member of society. Again, it ain’t personal.

    It amazes me how the leftist won’t come to terms with this simple reality. It’s not about a pathological hatred, it’s about having a nation. On the other hand, there is no doubt that some Japanese would develop a pathological hatred if their country were in the process of being colonized, and no doubt some white nationalists feel the same way. But that’s really a red herring. It’s just not about that, fundamentally. If we can move to a “new world order” where we don’t launch demographic (or economic, for that matter) invasions of other peoples nations, then pathological hatred will not be an issue at all. Why would it? Certainly it would be greatly dminished at the very least.

    “So I would wager that you have very little support for this – maybe 5% of the US population, and you need 51%, or probably even more to amend the damned Constitution. You simply do not have the numbers. ”

    I wonder how many Russians would have laughed in 1980 if someone had told them that the Soviet Union would fall apart? But going further, I would agree with you that there is no way that whites (in America, at least) can get their own nation through the normal political process. That doesn’t mean, however, that we won’t get our own nations, here and elsewhere. We will. Most countries weren’t founded through a normal political process, and the coming white nations likely won’t be either.

  6. Fred Scrooby | July 3, 2009 at 3:49 am |

    Excellent comment by Trainspotter. Trainspotter always does good work. I’m impressed with this guy.

  7. Fred Scrooby | July 3, 2009 at 3:53 am |

    Robert Lindsay mixes a fair amount of raunch into his blog material. I wonder if it’s not that rather than purely intelletual matters that gets his traffic numbers up. Also he’s somewhat of a grunge, and some white people just like grunge.

  8. I am very happy to hear that you and the WN’s you know have non-Whites in your social circles. That implies you may be more principled than I thought.

    I mean, if there were WN’s who did not hate non-Whites at all in a global sense, but only wanted their ethnostate to keep Whites from going extinct, frankly, I could accept that. I won’t get on board with it (I’m an anti) but it’s a position deserving of respect.

    The Whites who are laughing about White extinction don’t find it funny. They think they whole concept is insane. IOW, they don’t think that Whites are going extinct, at least in their lifetimes.

    To them, the notion that Whites are going extinct is preposterous, comical, nonsensical and ludicrous. Further, they regard concern about it to be downright silly and risible. They act like that’s 1 trillion on their list of things to worry about. To them, it’s just not a serious concern.

  9. Fred Scrooby | July 3, 2009 at 4:17 am |

    I am very happy to hear that you and the WN’s you know have non-Whites in your social circles. That implies you may be more principled than I thought. I mean, if there were WN’s who did not hate non-Whites at all in a global sense, but only wanted their ethnostate to keep Whites from going extinct, frankly, I could accept that. ( — Robert Lindsay)

    People’s private tastes in people are none of your business, Robert. You’re the worst kind of totalitarian, the kind who straps a suspect down, hooks him up to a thought-reading machine, and harshly punishes him for his thoughts. You’re a far more rabid totalitarian than any of the “WNs” you criticize (who, by and large, aren’t totalitarians at all).

    The Whites who are laughing about White extinction don’t find it funny. They think they whole concept is insane. IOW, they don’t think that Whites are going extinct, at least in their lifetimes. [Scroob note: not in mine either — which changes nothing] To them, the notion that Whites are going extinct is preposterous, comical, nonsensical and ludicrous. Further, they regard concern about it to be downright silly and risible. They act like that’s 1 trillion on their list of things to worry about. To them, it’s just not a serious concern. ( — Robert Lindsay)

    As I said, “What kind of whites hang out with Robert Lindsay?” You have your answer right there.

  10. Mr. Lindsay you keep stating that the alleged hate that White Nationalists have is something that bothers you but don’t you realize that to ‘Stop the Hate, We must Separate!’

    It is going to be very hard for some White Nationalist living in an ethno-state to hate Others that they are separate from!!! You can not hate that which you are not around!

  11. To quote Lindsay’s blog:
    ” This is officially a pro-Jewish and pro-Black blog. Generally, topics focused through a progressive yet heterodox lens.
    … Notorious provocateur out to piss off everyone.
    I am an antifa! Smash the fascist enemy!”

    This guy sounds like he was either born a Jew, or he likes the cultural style of Jews and so he wants to emulate that even if he’s gentile.

    The problem of Jewish violence against non-Jews has been discussed well by Israel Shahak. I can believe a Neturai Karta Jew could regard himself as pro-Jewish, pro-Black, anti-Maimonides, and anti-Talmud. However, no honest person can be both pro-Black and pro-Maimonides.

    I don’t think Robert Lindsay is foolishly trying to mix pro-White sentiment into liberalism — I suspect he’s trying to propagandize in favor of essentially Talmudic thinking.

  12. I get accused of being an anti-Semite constantly, but I could care less about Jews really. We don’t like Zionism. I would sort of like to be a Jew, I admit it. Or at least get hired by one. I could use the money. My Mom always said I should have been a Jew. I put that pro-Jewish and pro-Black in there because I’m always being accused of hating Blacks and Jews.

    I am a Leftist and I remember WW2. We still don’t like fascists, sorry. Personally, I don’t like any kind of ethnic nationalism. But there needs to be a choice between PC race insanity and ethnic nationalism/fascism. We support minority rights, secessionism, all that, just like the old USSR.

    We don’t like nation-building, the ethno nation-state, National Socialism or any of that. But that doesn’t mean we have to open the borders to the 3rd World.

  13. Kulaks Never Learn | July 3, 2009 at 9:36 am |

    “I am a Leftist and I remember WW2.”

    You remember the Second War of White Genocide, oops, I mean ‘ww2’???

    How old R U approximately?

  14. Mr. Dithers | July 3, 2009 at 7:46 pm |

    Roberto Lindsay claims white nationalists “hate” non-whites which makes us disreputable and undeserving of an ethnostate. WN’s are only principled if they accept non-whites into their social circles.
    The Jews of Israel hate the surrounding Arab populations but that didn’t stop them from getting their own state. Go figure. See below for more on that subject.

    I don’t know very many self styled white nationalists but it appears to me that most are motivated by a defense of their racial kinsmen and culture from the very real depredations of non-whites. The interracial crime statistics, especially rape, would lead any objective observer to conclude that non-whites are waging a race war against whites. Then we have Jewish hobgoblins like Noel Ignatiev of Israel whose mission in life is to “bash the dead whites males as well as the live ones”. His ideological Jewish sister, Susan Sontag (may she rot in hell), declared that the white race is the cancer of human history. And I thought Jews never had a prejudiced bone in their bodies.

    How is the desire for our own living space different from the Jewish people’s desire for nationhood that culminated in the creation of Israel? Israel is an ethnostate. Even though the population is 20% Arab, Israel does not allow a non-Jew to marry a Jew nor may a non-Jew own property. Jews of Israel are fanatical advocates of Jewish blood purity but push racial integration and multiculturalism on gentiles in the diaspora. There should be a footnote in dictionaries for the word hypocrisy that will say “observe Jewish behavior”.

    Speaking of hate, I’ve never known the NOI, NAACP, La Raza or Mecha to express a desire or willingness to allow “good” whites a place on their councils and in their living space. NOI would like to exterminate all white people while the other groups might allow whites to live as persecuted vagabonds after they get tired of killing us.

    I get very suspicious of supposed pro-white bloggers who spend an inordinate amount of their time attacking and excoriating white nationalists for not seeing the world as they do. They charge anyone who deviates from their winning formula of politically correct style pro-white activism and Jew coddling to be a knatsy (sic) who will frighten off mainstream America. Even national socialist websites display a great deal more tolerance than these type of people.

  15. “WN’s are only principled if they accept non-whites into their social circles.”

    “I get very suspicious of supposed pro-white bloggers who spend an inordinate amount of their time attacking and excoriating white nationalists for not seeing the world as they do. ”
    __

    Believe me friend, this really has little to nothing to do with altruism–and a heck of a lot more to do with ‘moral’ narcissism–you know, just how ‘wonderful’, ‘virtuous’, ‘righteous’ and especially ‘tolerant’ White ‘Gentile’ Honkies are for their phony “unrequited’ ‘love”:-(!

    Sorry, but don’t be suprised when non-Whites hate, despise and especially DISRESPECT your supplicating sissy asses, since they of all people do not buy your uniquely, deceitful brand of bullsh-t!!!

    Consider –

    “The usual explanations of what drives whites like Ignatiev are “white guilt” or “self-loathing.” But does Ignatiev appear as if he personally feels guilt or self-loathing?

    “No—he sounds like he’s having the time of his life arguing that you should feel guilt etc. He comes across as an arrogant, hostile jerk who thinks the world of himself. ”
    ~
    “And this is typical, in my experience: whites who proclaim their anti-white feelings don’t really care much about blacks or other minorities, pro or con.

    “What they care about is achieving social superiority over other whites by demonstrating their exquisite racial sensitivity and their aristocratic insouciance about any competitive threats posed by racial preferences.

    “To these whites, MINORITIES ARE JUST USEFUL PAWNS in the GREAT GAME of clawing your way to the top of the white status heap. Which, when you come right down to it, is the only game in town.”
    http://vdare.com/sailer/whiteness.htm
    *

    Now, start being HONEST with yourselves and your REAL motivations, and let the true healing begin.

    Maybe then you won’t go through life being ‘dissed’ so much, and possibly even will get some real respect, especially from non-Whites (which may be super-important as ‘America’ becomes more land more like a prison and way less like a ‘society’)!

  16. I want nothing whatsoever to do with White nationalists or White separatists in any way, shape or form. No decent ethnocentric White person should.

    I am an an anti, an antifa and an anti-Zionist. Sure it’s an ethnostate – that’s what we hate about Israel. Those are Jewish fascists living there. Of course you guys love em. You don’t get it; we are opposed to all ethnic nationalism, period.

    NAACP and La Raza are not hate groups. That’s your paranoia and projection again. Those are anti-racist groups for ethnocentric Blacks and Latinos. We need a White parallel.

    I don’t have any winning formula. I just have an agenda. I want to fight against:

    Hate propaganda
    Discrimination
    Hate crimes

    Against Whites. I don’t have any solutions to our racial problems. I also want to throw out all the illegals and reduce legal immigration by 70%.

    I’m not playing some moral game here, though I do have an issue with very high personal morals. A lot of humans are just morally low to me. This is a problem because it leads to moral arrogance on my part where I think a lot of humans are just morally beneath me. I actually like Blacks, Hispanics, NE Asians, SE Asians, East Indians, Arabs, Melanesians and Jews. Some of them anyway. I even date their women and I’ve been doing it my whole life.

    The problem is that racism, even hating other humans for little reason, and even arrogance are all morally low behaviors. I’m guilty of some of these morally low behaviors myself, but I feel guilty about it. I feel guilty much of the time; that’s my neurosis. Now, non-Whites like Blacks and Hispanics on average have much lower morals than your average White. One of the great things about us is our relatively high moral behaviors.

    So, in being racists, hating non-Whites for little reason, feeling Supremacist, etc., we are engaging in morally low, non-White type behavior that is unbecoming of an uber-civilized White man. This is the essence of my argument. Racism is uncivilized behavior beneath any proud White man. It’s animal-like behavior more fitting to non-Whites than Whites.

    Now, if you just want to move away from them like White Californians do, that’s not racism. That’s just being sensible.

  17. Robert Lindsay,

    Do you recognize the contradiction between your support for minority rights and secession while you passionately resist Whites exercising logically identical rights for self-determination and self-preservation?

    I find your writing interesting and thought-provoking but riddled with many contradictions and double standards to the point of near incoherence. Do you recognize how contradictory some of your positions seem to be?

    I must strongly disagree with your characterization of White nationalists as racists and haters of non-Whites. Some White nationalists or advocates hold such beliefs but many do not. Many WN ideologies can exist with no racism or hatred. As others have mentioned, separatism can be the foundation of safe and stable relations between groups based on genuine respect for cultural and ethnic differences. One scenario would be for the US to split into many different states, e.g. 15+ different countries. There could be White Black, Chicano and multiracial states. This also allows different political systems to be tried reflecting local values. For example, some states might try to fix the broken parts of our Constitution while others may adopt some other foundation, including libertarianism, fascism, socialism or communism. The same notion of federalism or local control can also be applied within states, so pockets of dissenting values can peacefully exist (e.g. islands of Bohemians within a traditionalist state). The states might still heavily interact economically, more closely than pre-EU Europe. The different states could even coordinate certain policies, like scientific research, space programs and defensive military cooperation, although the aggressive American Empire would definitely be defanged by this breakup. Also, the radical multiracial experiment could continue on a smaller scale without risking all White territories and populations.

    Some White ethnostates might have 90 or 95 plus percent White populations and then control their immigration to maintain internal White hegemony without resorting to any non-White discrimination or hatred. The White ethnostates could even provide some assistance to the Black ethnostates to help them maintain a higher level of civilization than their Detroit-like natural inclination. People could immigrate between these different states if they felt too alienated (e.g. traditionalist exodus from multicultural/Chicano California or SWPL exodus from WN state).

    What would be so horrible about having some portion of the US dedicated to these sort of White ethnostates? If you think this is so wickedly racist, how do you square that with your dedication to minority rights and secession for non-Whites?

  18. I don’t sense any duplicity in his writings that wafts off the likes of Lawrence Auster (Jew) or Ian Jobling.

    He’s of a different nature, sure, but his “White ethnocentric” hatred for “haters” makes him, in my view, both duplicitous and an enemy.

  19. Desmond Jones | July 4, 2009 at 2:41 am |

    The problem is Lindsay is blinded by his arrogance. He sees no value in racism because he cannot see that racism lies on a continuum and like many other things has moral and immoral components. He, however, is so consumed by hatred that he cannot offer the hand of reciprocity to those who are moral racists. It is McCullough’s Racial Golden Rule.

    “Under the Racial Golden Rule all rights are reciprocal and shared in common by all races. All have the right to racial life. All have the right to racial independence, the exclusive ownership of, and control over, their own life, without which their life would have little meaning or purpose except as a means to serve the ends and interests of other races. All have the right to self-determination and sovereign possession of their own territory. The proponents of the Racial Golden Rule claim these rights for their own race and, in reciprocity, recognize them for other races as well.

    The Racial Golden Rule is consistent with divergent evolution and the moral racism of the racial compact. It supports racial separation and independence as required for continued racial existence and divergent evolution. It promotes the right of each race to self-rule and self-determination, to shape its own evolution and destiny, free from control, domination, intrusion or interference by other races. It is consistent with the so-called “Prime Directive” on the television series Star Trek , which prohibits interference with other peoples or cultures, including any attempt to give aid or advice, or otherwise influence their development, and respects their independence and their right to make their own choices and follow their own destiny. […]

    The Racial Golden Rule asserts the right of every race to racial freedom through racial separation and independence. To secure racial freedom and separation it respects the requirement of every race for its own exclusive racial territory or homeland, its own independent and sovereign government. It declares for every race the freedom to follow its own path, to control its own life and existence, to determine its own course of development and to pursue its own happiness and evolutionary destiny. It is a declaration of racial independence, freedom and diversity, holding it to be self-evident that all races were created different, and have a right to be different, to be themselves, with equal rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of their own happiness.”

    This too is racism and it is virtuous because it enhances survival and survival, the “prime directive” of life is virtuous.

  20. Fred Scrooby | July 4, 2009 at 4:55 am |

    This too is racism and it is virtuous because it enhances survival and survival, the “prime directive” of life is virtuous. ( — Desmond)

    … and it is virtuous because it enhances survival without harming anyone or any other race whatsoever

  21. Had me until the “Star Trek” reference. Are we so degraded that even our racial philosophy must contain low culture references, especially to diversity propaganda like Star Trek?

  22. “We support minority rights, secessionism, all that, just like the old USSR.”

    So like the old USSR you also support the aims of the old Socialist Reich Party (which was National Socialist)?!?!?! Oops.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Reich_Party

  23. Desmond, perhaps the reason Lindsay sees White racism as immoral is because, at least in an evolutionary sense, he does not consider himself White. How could he when he’s continually boasting about his miscegenating?

  24. “I mean, if there were WN’s who did not hate non-Whites at all in a global sense, but only wanted their ethnostate to keep Whites from going extinct, frankly, I could accept that.”

    Then we’re in agreement.

    You could argue it from a perspective of freedom and liberalism as well. Would such things exist without whites? No. Most white countries do not care for these ideals. The less white our country becomes the more totalitarian it will be.

    I think your major disagreement is how it is presented, the social aspect of it. I do think getting rid of anti-social/sociopathic elements like those at VNN would do white nationalism a service.

  25. *Most non-white countries

  26. Liberal white nationalism:

    Liberalism, except:

    1) chuck the anti-white narrative, replace with a pro-white narrative
    2) chuck the totalitarian insistence on panmixia and race-replacement, replace with right of peoples to exist
    3) replace groveling with paternalism
    4) etc.

  27. Of course you guys love em. You don’t get it; we are opposed to all ethnic nationalism, period.

    What’s this “we” shit? Liberals in general care not a fig that Israel gets away with murder; they’d rather chase 90 year old Nazi camp guards, or anything but fuck with the Jews.

  28. I’m not a liberal, I’m a Leftist. We hate Israel. Longstanding beef. We even support armed groups that attack them, especially, say, the PFLP.

  29. There is nothing immoral about racial discrimination. The taboo against racism is merely a weird social convention.

  30. My rant the other day I did not mean to specifically target you exclusively, Robert.

    I can accept–and respect–your nuanced views on this rather complex issue.

    I think you are on to something when you claim that some WN respect, or at least admire, the world’s largest open-air prison known as the ‘state of Israel’.

    And believe me when I say this, I would NEVER, not under ANY circumstances–not even for a single day, want to see non-Whites treated (in a presumptive WN ethno-state) the way the Palestinians and other non-Jews are treated under that house of horrors known as the ‘Jewish’ state! They are a ‘role model’ for no human society, and only one for a ‘life’ in Hades, perhaps.

    This being said, White ethnic awareness and consciousness really does not need to entail hatred–or more specifically maliciousness–in order for an amicable arrangement to ultimately come into fruition for the benefit of European Americans who are looking out for their legitimate interests.

    “Now, if you just want to move away from them like White Californians do, that’s not racism. That’s just being sensible.”

    I think what you say here sums it up very appropriately.

  31. Mr. Dithers | July 5, 2009 at 5:19 pm |

    No, WN’s don’t respect and admire Israel’s little hate state. Whites simply want what the Jews of Israel have, that is, an ethnostate. Israel is often used as an example because neo-cons and Christian conservatives worship the Jewish people and the state of Israel yet whites who desire their own state are considered the spawn of satan.

    The basis for the creation of Israel was that Jews needed a safe haven from persecution by the wicked and hateful gentiles. Likewise, whites need a safe haven from violent non-whites, anti-white elites, hostile Jewish groups and to govern our lives as we see fit without the interference of the Jewish dominated ACLU and media harpies.

    Lindsay and his ilk need to realize that there is no such thing as equality and interracial amity in multiracial societies. Even if it was possible that condition wouldn’t last long. At some point one group attempts to acquire power and privileges at the expense of other groups and things break down. Or, group A commits a disproportionate number of crimes against groups B and C causing the two latter groups to retaliate. Or, groups A, B and C simply don’t trust one another. This is simply human nature and sooner or later the multiracial utopia collapses of its own dead weight. The former Soviet Union and Bosnia are the two most recent examples of this dynamic of larger nations devolving into smaller, ethnically based nations. Sorry, but economics and ideology just don’t figure in to the picture.

    All healthy racial and ethnic groups desire to live only among their own kind and to exclude dissimilar groups. China has never entertained immigration and is engaging in demographic warfare against the Muslim Uighurs of the north while Japan is now paying immigrants of S. American descent to leave the country and never come back. Blacks and mestizos in America hold their own graduation ceremonies and high school prom parties separate from the white students. Both of these groups would like to carve out their own ethnostates in the Southeast and Southwest regions of the U.S.

    If Lindsay and others want integration let’s all chip in and buy them one way tickets to Brazil.

  32. The South Americans being asked to leave Japan and go home are ethnically Japanese.

    Blacks don’t like the separate proms; Whites do.

    A poll taken in 1968 showed that 31% of Whites supported ethnic separatist states or nations for Blacks in the US. Only 5% of Blacks supported this. It’s less now.

    According to Marxist thinking, Whites, US Blacks, etc. are simply not nations deserving of succession. The states that seceded in the USSR were actual nations. To some extent, Yugoslavia was the same. Multinational nation-states are the norm all over the world. Few nations are secessionist. Even fewer have majority support for secession.

    Examples of nations are Germans, Spaniards, Basques, Galicians, Catalans, Occitans, Bretons, Welsh, Scottish, Irish, Danes, you get the picture. WHITES is not a nation. It’s a race, sort of. Races don’t get to secede.

    The history of most regions of the Earth is one of a variety of nations and peoples living in the area. This is true all over the globe.

  33. The Monitor | July 6, 2009 at 4:29 am |

    “Blacks don’t like the separate proms; Whites do.”

    If Blacks didn’t like separate proms, they would not exist in the first place.

  34. Fred Scrooby | July 6, 2009 at 4:40 am |

    I was going to ask Lindsay why the Japs wanted their racial brethren to go home to South America but the rest of his comment was so obnoxious I think I’d vomit on the spot if I addressed him directly, so I won’t.

  35. Not true. It’s a community tradition to have separate proms dating back to the good ole days. The Blacks hate it and want one prom; the Whites love it and want separate proms. So there is a stalemate and the combined proms remain.

    Please read the recent media frenzy about the separate proms in Georgia that was all over the media last month.

  36. Fred is correct. I do have pretty high traffic, but definitely folks don’t necessarily come to read stuff about race. We write about all sorts of stuff on there, and to be honest, there is an attempt to write the blog so as to get high traffic. That’s independent of race or anything.

    High traffic is, as Fred suggested, a profoundly sleazy game, and if you’re poor and you don’t seriously sleaze out, you’re probably SOL. IOW, the way to higher traffic for an ordinary Joe is to sleaze out. I’ve decided no porn, but it’s true, I have sleazed out in other ways.

    There are 90 million blogs at least out there. There are 100’s of millions of other webpages. Many of them are trying for high traffic. They won’t all get it. So it’s really a fight to the death out there.

    Even some of the “normal” ways of getting high traffic are sleazy, such as hacking the search engines and whatnot. Spamming the search engines, also widely used, is so sleazy that Google will ban you from the engine for doing it. Search engine optimization (SEO) is big biz and the SEO experts make good money.

    I’m not sure how many come to read my race stuff. Honestly, most of those who read my race stuff either don’t precisely agree with me (White nationalists) or they are just freaked out and can’t make sense out of it at all. A lot just seem to walk away shaking their heads.

    And yeah, I get called racist, anti-Semite, Nazi, fascist, all the time. But of course.

  37. Fred, the Japs are so ethnocentrically nuts over there that they consider the South American Japanese (mostly Brazilian) to be “not true Japanese” because they have been living in Brazil for 100 years or so. Weird but true. The SA Japanese speak fluent Japanese too. See, it’s not all about race in Japan.

  38. Desmond,

    The problem is Lindsay is blinded by his arrogance. He sees no value in racism because he cannot see that racism lies on a continuum and like many other things has moral and immoral components. He, however, is so consumed by hatred that he cannot offer the hand of reciprocity to those who are moral racists. It is McCullough’s Racial Golden Rule.

    That’s not true. Lindsay has spoken out against “binary racism” (hate/not hate), and has himself made the point that racial feelings lie along a continuum. He’s a lot closer to racialism than he is to anti-racism; he’s turned off by the copious amounts of gratuitous hatred and loathing among movement types. Scrooby on this thread is an example the latter: why be moved to “vomit” from a simple interaction on a blog? The only reason is unquenchable loathing for the racial other and his supporter.

  39. Fred Scrooby | July 6, 2009 at 12:15 pm |

    It’s OK, I’ve got a bottle of extremely powerful anti-emetic medication here and have just swallowed a triple-dose, plus I’ve got a sheet of plastic handy to quickly place over my monitor screen and keyboard if I start to heave uncontrollably, as well as a vomit bucket standing by, so it’s all right, I think I can go on now —

    “[Lindsay is] turned off by the copious amounts of gratuitous hatred and loathing among movement types. Scrooby on this thread is an example the latter: why be moved to “vomit” from a simple interaction on a blog? The only reason is unquenchable loathing for the racial other and his supporter.” ( — Silver)

    “The racial other”? You mean mystery meat, ‘groids, ‘loids, ‘gloids, ‘ttoids, stuff like that? Well sure, I’m no huge fan of theirs but that’s not why I was going to vomit. I was going to vomit because of Lindsay saying U.S. whites didn’t deserve a nation. But it’s all right, I’ve got the anti-emetic now, so I think I’ll be OK.

    Robert, that’s a very interesting story about the Japs doing that. My take? My take, dollars to doughnuts, of what’s going on is 1) they know some of them have been racially mixed so aren’t a hundred percent Jap any more, because it’s obvious looking at them, and 2) others they can’t tell for sure just by looking and don’t want the bad PR that would come with having them genetically tested, so 3) they figure their best bet is to pay the lot of them to go home (home being Peru I assume, that being, if I’m not mistaken, the South American country where most Japs went a hundred-and-fifty years ago or whatever it was). Japs in Japan sure know what they’re doing in this instance but not in another I’m aware of: I read a year or two ago that Jap farmers couldn’t find brides any more because no Jap women wanted such a hard life, so the government in Tokyo began importing Filipino women to marry the Jap farmers. Bad move, since Filipino is too racially unlike Japanese. They should have imported Korean, Northern Chinese, or Mongolian women for that purpose, races more like Japanese.

  40. Fred Scrooby | July 6, 2009 at 12:40 pm |

    I was reading somewhere where Volga Germans who applied to go to Germany after the Soviet Union’s collapse and subsequent opening of doors to leave Russia, turned out, in the eyes of some local Germans whom they came to live among in the Fatherland, to not have completely German appearance or completely German behavior. The thinking on the part of some disappointed locals was they’d mixed with the dagoes over there during the two centuries they’d been there and were no longer completely German. Hey it’s a risk you’re taking when you let these offspring of guys who left home two centuries ago come back. You might not get what you think you’re getting. I won’t be more explicit because I know how susceptible Silver is to throwing conniption fits on this topic is broached.

    The other thing is Israel and the way it allowed tens of thousands of non-Jewish ethnic Russians to immigrate during the 1990s. It was said at the time that those Russian Christians (whose Israeli kids now parade around in Nazi skinhead paraphernalia and give each other the Nazi salute apparently) tricked the Israeli Jews by falsely claiming they were Jews, but knowing how careful the Jewish Israeli authorities are in regard to checking this kind of thing, it scarcely seem true they could be tricked in this way. No, somehow the order came down from somewhere to let tens of thousands of ethnic Russian Christians in. Why? One possible reason is the Israeli Ashkenazis wanted to “whiten-up” the Israeli Jewish population as counterbalance to all the Mizrahi and Sephardi material they have there, “colorful” material for sure (pun intended) but lacking the hard-core Euro-type genetic stuff of which strong nations are made, and other motivations are conceivable as well (they wanted a “worker class,” something scarce among Jews, which may be why they keep the Palestinian Arabs close to hand instead of making proper arrangements for the solution of that long-festering “refugee” problem).

  41. You might not get what you think you’re getting.

    Yeah exactly, you could have a half Jewish, quarter German deciding to pass himself off as a real one because, well, he speaks the lingo and he decided, hey, after over half a lifetime that he, you know, really, really feels like one, and perhaps he figured that’s the best race to be so why not define himself into it.

    I won’t be more explicit because I know how susceptible Silver is to throwing conniption fits on this topic is broached.

    Not over anything targeted at him. Pfft.

    It’s just, let’s say, a little difficult to see how anything positive can come out of it — but, when you think about it, that mightn’t be such a problem for a half Jew of matrilineal descent.

  42. Fred Scrooby | July 6, 2009 at 1:57 pm |

    Silver’s trying to Rienzi me now, but with Jewish instead of Italian.

  43. My understanding is that the Brazilian Japanese thing has nothing to do with race. They are full blooded Japanese bu the other Japs don’t accept them because they’ve been in Brazil for 100 years. I don’t think race has anything to do with it.

    These are people who won’t even accept their own race – Barakumin, and whose racial thinking makes no sense, like most racially obsessed cultures. The Japanese are about 60% Korean and 40% Ainu, yet they despise both the Koreans and the Ainu. Go figure.

  44. Fred Scrooby | July 6, 2009 at 4:36 pm |

    “the Brazilian Japanese thing has nothing to do with race. They are full blooded Japanese but the other Japs don’t accept them because they’ve been in Brazil for 100 years.” ( — Robert Lindsay)

    I completely disagree with that attitude of theirs. If I were a Jap I’d certainly vote to let them stay, assuming they were racially fully Jap. Whatever non-Jap enculturation they may have picked up in Brazil is unlearnable, if not with them then surely with their offspring who should fit right into Jap culture and society.

  45. If this website is to be trusted, there is a significant amount of inter-breeding with the non-Japanese Brazilians:

    http://www.everyculture.com/South-America/Asians-in-South-America.html

    “Indeed, the proportion of offspring of mixed Japanese and non-Japanese descent has jumped from about 6 percent in the Nissei generation to over 61 percent in the Sansei-neto (a Japanese-Brazilian term used to signify the great-grandchildren of immigrants) generation.”

    Perhaps rather than have to deal with the issue of ‘octoroons’ and such they just apply a blanket policy.

  46. What is it with Brazil and these diasporas? Will they just allow in any old ethnocentric group, and let it breed as it will?

    I’m not a liberal, I’m a Leftist. We hate Israel. Longstanding beef. We even support armed groups that attack them, especially, say, the PFLP.

    Leftists don’t seem to be getting much done on this front. And they seem to place their beef with Israel way, way down the ladder compared to white racialists’ picnics. Why? Pussies I says, but I’d like to see your evasions.

    According to Marxist thinking, Whites, US Blacks, etc. are simply not nations deserving of succession. The states that seceded in the USSR were actual nations. To some extent, Yugoslavia was the same. Multinational nation-states are the norm all over the world. Few nations are secessionist. Even fewer have majority support for secession.

    Can you show that multinational states are the norm, particularly in the developed world? Can you show that multinational states behave as if they like multinationalism? Seems to me healthy states don’t encourage diversity.

    Examples of nations are Germans, Spaniards, Basques, Galicians, Catalans, Occitans, Bretons, Welsh, Scottish, Irish, Danes, you get the picture. WHITES is not a nation.

    Americans then. That’s a nation. And no, non-whites don’t count. Why do leftists always seem to suddenly run out of imagination when needed? It’s very convenient.

    Races don’t get to secede.

    Why not? Cuz Rob said so? Cuz Karl said so? What is this problem with self-determination? Can you explain it? Conversely, what is with the uncontrollable lust for hegemony that seems built into the left? This seems an unarticulated, but ubiquitous and visceral quality of the left, that they must dominate the world (or at least, every scrap of the world inhabited by “sort-of a race” white people), brook no dissent.

    The history of most regions of the Earth is one of a variety of nations and peoples living in the area. This is true all over the globe.

    This doesn’t say much to me. The history of the world is violence, oppression, deception.

    Fred, the Japs are so ethnocentrically nuts over there that they consider the South American Japanese (mostly Brazilian) to be “not true Japanese” because they have been living in Brazil for 100 years or so. Weird but true. The SA Japanese speak fluent Japanese too. See, it’s not all about race in Japan.

    Ethnocentrism isn’t all about race, either. It’s about ethnicity, which has components that include ancestry and culture. Funny, but this seems in line with my self-described political orientation (ethnic nationalist).

  47. According to present day Marxist theory, Whites are not a nation that has a right to a state. Neither are Blacks, Hispanics, Asians, any race really. Races are not nations. According to us anyway. By the same logic, a lot of us say that the Jews are not a nation deserving of a state either. They’re a religion. It’s like saying 7th Day Adventists get their own state.

    The Left really hates Israel. Ask the Zionists. Go to Counterpunch or sites like that. It’s practically all they can talk about. They don’t necessarily want to get rid of Israel. They are just Israel bashers who support the Pallies in one way or another.

  48. The Monitor | July 6, 2009 at 11:58 pm |

    “It’s like saying 7th Day Adventists get their own state.”

    If they wanted one, why not? If they could get some land, why shouldn’t they be able to run their own affairs?

    “The Left really hates Israel. Ask the Zionists.”

    This raises a point: what is the endgame of anti-Zionism? The Left seems to want Israel to become a multicultural paradise, like Brazil. Why should I want this?

  49. Yeah that’s great Bob. Now please answer my fucking questions and respond to my actual fucking points.

  50. The Monitor | July 7, 2009 at 12:24 am |

    Svigor: I think Robert means to say that White people are not culturally coherent enough to be a distinct nation, because there are too many subdivisions. I would ask him whether whites in North America could be a nation, since we differ so much from other groups.

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